[Dev Update] Skill Balancing PvE and PvP Seperately - 09 May 2008

Use the normal font FFS.

PVE players dont give a crap about your PVP balance, especially when it spoils the game that we are playing.

PVP and PVE skills should have been seperate from the start, that is all I am saying. This update has come after 3 years of failing on Anets behalf and completely ignoring PVE when balancing skills.


I dont give a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO about PVP balance IF it has a negative affect on PVE, every other MMO is better then GW for PVE. People do actually play GW for PVE as well, GW's balance is a useless attempt to fix a skill system that was broken from the start.

Give me one example of a nerf that killed the pve gameplay?

i pve too
pvp skill balances didnt spoil the game for me...
grind wars did


wrong
pvp'rs qq bout imba and skill nerf requests
granted, prolly not as much as pve'rs qq bout skill unnerf requests...

Light of Deliverance screwed a bunch of Monks over in PvE...

Oh and Flame Djinn's Haste screwed with Raptor farming for those who used the original nuking build.

That's two.

Edit: SPLINTER WEAPON. That's three. Shall I go on?

Because those nerfs made it impossible to play PvE, am I right?

Speaking as a PvE-only player I can think of plenty of skill updates that made me rethink my build (a good thing, IMO) and no skill changes that actually "broke" PvE.

Totally agree. Some caused changes in builds/style, but they were never "broken". Think outside the box and it was all good.

hb replaced lod
(insert one of the million raptor farming builds available) replaced the old raptor farming build
splinter weapon...is still good

the question was ones that "ruined" pve
not ruin a build (the point of nerfing btw) that can be replaced by another

Well theres that one time when they buffed Word of Healing and it screwed up Thirsty River...

That's impossible, because you didnt ask "name me 3 skills that ruined a brainless farm-build"

Did the "overpowered" skills make it impossible to play PvP??

Cool looks like we will see some major nerfs for gimmicks in pvp while not hurting the pvers! =)

Its sad that Anet has to do this because so many pvers complain about how splinter got nerfed....

yes.
12 chars

Yes.

Dark Fury instant killer, IWAY, etc ALL SAY HI.

There's a pretty good reason why the PvP exodus happened at Nightfall, and it wasn't because of Koss and Melonni getting it on.

Dark Fury was a bug! You should not take a skill that didn´t work as intended and compare it to skills that did work as intended, but are overpowered.

IWAY prevented you from playing PvP? Did you get an err7 because of it?

You don't understand PvP and hence have no right to comment on it. Victories being decided by builds before the teams even walk out the gate is the result of poor balance, and at that point, it's not even PvP anymore. It's just a slow, sad, cinematic of failure.

Secondly, PvP is meant to be skill based. Builds that have disproportionate power for the required skill ruin the playerbase setup - especially in the midranks, where mediocre players dominate without learning, ruining the experience for players who are legitimately making an effort to develop.

So yes, lack of PvP balance does prevent playing PvP.

The funny thing was, it did work as intended. By the descriptions of the skills, and game mechanics, it was working just peachy. Anet only said it wasn't, to give an additional reason to fix it.

No, it didn't give me an err7.

What it did do, was give a bunch of idiots a way better chance of winning because the only way to beat it was to either run a counter build (and then lose vs something not-IWAY LOOOL), run balanced (and make very little mistakes, note: IWAY guys can make tons of em), or run something that will get rolled 100% for sure.

Since PvP is random matchmaking, an equal parallel would be if upon entering any map in PvE, every single non-healer's bar was replaced with rank 20 Ursan Blessing. You either built against it and hope that you get paired up vs it, or you run balanced and try to win, or you get rolled.

It becomes pointless, because the new players are never going to learn (they'll run the gimmicks, and become frustrated when they lose by the hard counter and call it scrub), the medium skill players are going to be in between, and the hardcore players are going to leave because people who have no clue what they are doing will win.


Fighting an army of soldier's with infinite ammo machine guns when all you have are knives, is pretty pointless and boring. People quit.

EDIT:
and before you go OMG WHY DONT YOU TAKE THE INFINITE AMMO MACHINE GUNS TOO, good players tend to avoid gimmicks, because they know they won't learn anything by doing so. In a tournament, they will, to win at any cost, but in casual play to learn, they tend to steer away from it. IWAY, for example, requires absolutely 0 positioning, minimal pre-kiting skills, and you could roll your face over your keyboard and get results.

No, it doesn´t! It prevents you from playing the build you want to play. Instead you have to run the same build and then it is again players skill against player skill.

Sadly, that is exactly what happens in PvE, because of PvP "balance". PvE players are prevented from playing the build they want to play. Which using your "argument" equals being prevented from playing PvE all together.

Paragon and holding builds.

MM and spirits, the energizer bunny N/Rt, which led to the so beloved ultimate PvE build of today.

Toucher in RA (this one really did make it impossible to play, since people were rage quitting left and right when faced with toucher).

No, nobody got disconnected. But it did make it impossible to play. Either way - it made *MUCH* more impact than the belated splinter weapon nerf (please, that nerf didn't do anything at all and people almost deleted rangers over it)

Only in PUGs, and not because of balance issues, but because of lowest denominator. But while anyone doing PvE is faced with same mobs, regardless of how they form a team, that is not the case in PvP.

Of course, the consequences of this choice will become obvious once PvE hard mode will turn into pre-searing. Then, the old engineering saying will come true: build a fool-proof system, and only a fool will use it.

Once challenge is taken away, people get bored. With exception of title grinders, who won't care either way. And that is the ultimate direction, or so it would seem.

Except, you're comparing a game mode where monsters are defined, and players aren't. A game mode where you fight things that don't quit because of unfair gameplay, and a game mode where you do. Hint: no one wants same build vs same build.

EDIT:


bad memories.

no...theres a diff:

pve: u can run the build still, jus less effectively

pvp: u can run the build still, but u will lose

fact is, most pve players dun care bout havin fun
they want to grind titles/money/armour/weaps/etc as fast as they can

(and dun tell qq bout farming builds...they dun count)

Having one person argue stubbornly against everyone else isn't a discussion. As the discussion's not going to get better, closed.