extremely bad players

Ladies and Gents,

I have read often in these forums complaints about bad players and noobs. I think it is about time someone actually stated that this is a game, a contest with winners and loosers. And as such we have the responsibility to be good sportsmen and women. To be kind and helpful to other players. I often find these bad sports in the PvP and Elite PvE areas. The stakes are higher in these areas and level of vulgarity higher too. People think their bad behavior is justified because someone played bad or made a mistake that cost them the match or a bit of gold. It is extremely easy to act badly because it is a game and the characters are not real but we must remember that there are real people behind our characters. Because we are on the computer we feel we can act as we never would do in real life. Screaming, yelling, calling people names belittles you not the person you are attacking.

Now, don't get me wrong, I know there are many, many helpful and considerate players out there, like the one who when I was first starting gave me a black dye to get a run to Droks and buy new armor. It's too bad that the few bad apples make playing unpleasent for everyone. I think this bad behavior has led to the decline in PUG's more than Hero's. I think if we all try and be a bit kinder to each other and not so quick to call names, we would all have a better gaming experience. Thanks Sparks

The problem is many bad players think they are good. They rage at people and blame others when they are actually too stupid to know why the mission/match failed. A n00b just doesn't know better, but these bad players often present themselves as masters of the game. Best thing to do is move on and build a friends list of people who know how to enjoy themselves without attacking others.

Stop sucking and people won't yel...

It's a game, like you said, so it's supposed to be fun. It isn't fun when U spend XX hours preparing for PvP/Elite Area and then 1 guy goes AFK/RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOs up and your team whipes...

I agree people should try and be nicer but everyone just has that time where there buttons get pushed to far and they go off.

This thread is flame bait and needs to be closed(even if I agree with you).

While I agree with what you've said, I'm not sure of your point in posting it. It will attract flamers and trolls as evidenced by one or two posters already.

I'll leave it open for now but I'm going to keep an eye on it.

I try to help out as much as I can, it's just discouraging at times. There are quite a few people out there who don't want advice and will continue to play "poorly". A lot of the time a person will be stern and will only learn through failure, not just being told and taught about it. I still try my best.

People are too stubborn to realize that nothing matters in the game. And too stubborn to realize they are acting stupid. There is nothing I hate more then people not helping each other because of a stupid act. Due to that, I usually stay out off PvP and H/H many things, but when I do, I try my best to act like a "good sportsman" which the amount of is disappearing way to fast, not just in games, but in everything of life, at least imo.

I agree with you that people need to stop acting like that, but there is nothing we can really do. If they want to act like little kids, let them, I'll just ignore them and when they have no one to argue to or about, then they will, hopefully, get it through their heads that THEY suck and need to change the way they act. Until then, nothing can be done.

I do think this thread needs to be closed before the "bad players" and "idiots" come on to flame.
Edit: the post right under mine *currently* is a perfect example on why a good discussion topic cannot last on guru without it being ruined by flames and trolls. 2nd Edit: that post was deleted.

Actually I think something can be done. Set a good example. Take the high road when someone else takes the low. Be considerate, calm, and courteous. Some people will take note and perhaps even emulate such behavior. Contribute to this society...for GW is a society with its own rules, standards of behavior, etc. And show others how they can as well.

Certainly you cannot change, "the world," over night but in gneral people tend to follow leaders, so be a positive leader.

There's a big difference between bad players.

There are those that are bad because they have little experience with the game/part of the game you're doing, yet, are willing to learn. I have no problems whatsoever with this kind of people and will never be rude to them. I might even help them if I have the time for it.

However there are also those that are bad, inexperienced, yet think they know it all , refuse to learn, and will even force their shitty opinion upon others. This is the kind of players that will be ignored, at best. And if they push it too far, will eventually be flamed by those who actually have a clue..

Bad players who are willing to learn are good and will improve.

Bad players who will cry upon a single failure and think they already understand everything are bad and will continue to fail.

I played Dark Ages of Camelot for quite awhile and when you were bested or killed an opponent, the majority of the time you were saluted or bowed to. You treated your opponent like a worthy advesary whether or not they deserved it. Not all players are as good as you, and you're not as good as some other players. But if everyone treated everyone else with respect then it was a better playing experience.

I fail to see why some players think that trash talk and rude emotes equates to being grown up and mature. I agree a little banter between opponents is fine but most of the time it is just plain outright name calling and cussing. Just a bunch of little kids thinking that's the way adults act.

Flame on I'm sure.

I start out with a respect level where I am passive and neutral, I leave it up to you to change it.

bored today?
While I agree with most of this, I'll have to remind you that this is the internet, and anonymity gives people what they think is the "right" to act stupid and say what ever they want.
There's very little we can do about this as we can't outright punish those who do it, so just try to show them as little of your attention as you can. (Of course they're doing it to get a rise or offend you, because you apparently offended them in "being too noob", so it's obviously what you deserve)

Anyone claiming to be all-knowing and talking down to everyone else is a bad player. Good players recognize their own weaknesses, and are willing to help others with their problems.

By that definition, people yelling at you in the arenas for not OMFG HEAL suck, and should be ignored. However, you shouldn't put up a shell that deflects any and all criticism of your playstyle.

In short, lots of people are jerks on the internet. Don't be another moronic, screaming face in the mob.

"Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so."
Douglas Adams

I think you must also take into consideration that MANY of the 'people' who are playing are still children....a lot of the player base is under the age of 21! Asking that they act mature is ...well parents have been praying for that for years, I doubt that an anonymous game will get a better reaction!


Good luck and the only thing I can say is if you act mature maybe it will rub off on the 'bad' ones.....otherwise just do the 'mature' thing and turn the other check.

good luck!

I don't like closing threads because of the trolls and flamers, they do not run these boards. I'd rather see some good discussions going on.

I think that a LOT of the cause stems from PvP titles. People want to win to grind their glad points, or other kind of points. If they lose, they get pissed off and start blaming everyone except themselves. If someone says "hey, it's your fault just as much as ours", most of them go on to say something like "my title is higher than yours, that means that you're a noob and should bow down to me".

Quite honestly, I think PvP titles ruined the game. If people wanted to play for fun instead of grinding points for their titles, there would be less leavers, less leechers, and that probably would have prevented things like the Dishonorable hex from being implemented. It wouldn't have completely prevented these problems, there's still the ignorant players that will grief for personal enjoyment, but the problem wouldn't have been so widespread.

Just my two cents.

"Bad" players come in 4 varieties:

1. The person who wants to play the game "their own way" with a "unique snowflake" build like Me/R "pretty archer with a pet" or somesuch. These people aren't interested in becoming "good." And that's just fine. So long as they don't come to areas where being "good" is a prerequisite for success and join a team under the false pretense that they're something they're not (which happens only very rarely), no one is hurt by these people playing the game "their own way."

2. The person who is bad, but thinks they're good. Actually, they usually think that they are better than "good," better than "great" even -- they usually think that they are God's gift to GW. These people are a problem. No amount of patient, clear-headed explanation will help them to improve, because they do not recognize that they suck. Calling them some variant on "idiotic noob" may make you feel better after they ruin your quest/mission/PvP match, but it probably won't have much impact on them, because they are thinking the same thing of you. The best thing you can do is avoid partying with these people in the first place. You can usually identify them by their LFG spam that includes terms like "pro," "exp," "R10 Ursan only," and, of course, "no noobs."

3. The person who you think is bad, but who is, in fact, better than you. This is the flip side of the above case. Much like you have no reliable way of determining that you yourself are not insane, you have no reliable way of determining that you aren't the one who's a noob. Perhaps this other person's build/tactics/way of doing a quest/whatever is really brilliant, and much better than what you think they should be doing, but you are too much of a noob to realize it.

4. The person who lacks experience, knows that they lack experience, and welcomes advice. This person should never be treated with "stooooopid noob" name-calling and other such crap and should be given any advice you've got that would be helpful to their task at hand.

In my experience, GW on the PvE side has all 4 kinds of bad players, and the good players usually distinguish between them and treat them accordingly. PvP tends to be filled almost exclusively with type 2 bad players, and a very few good players who treat all bad players very poorly. That's one of the reasons that I predominantly play PvE when I play GW.

Then again, many people wouldn't still be here if it weren't for titles, griefers or not.

It's not about ppl not knowing the rules of an elite area, not knowing the pop-ups spots, basic aggro management rules... not even about not having elementary knowledge about the skills and these skills' influence on these ppl but it's about their disrespect and selfishness!
Wammo or ursan-mentality ppl never listen to what U say, when U point them (even in the most gentle and kind way) what is bad and what is good for the team... they just don't care... don't give a damn. Coz they lack respect and responisbility...
Another release therapy thread?...

GW causes frustration!! we have to learn to live with it. No other option. No matter how much whining we will do!

WTB single player GW

The point is:
some people lack any kind of manners.

Seriously - I was looking for a non-ursan team for FoW the other day and my selling line was "LFG 4/8 - FoW - NM- Non-Ursan - We're desperate so we'll accept anyone! :P Add yourself!" and I was yelled at by some dude that didn't like the fact that I would accept just anyone in MY party, because:
1. it's MY party.
2. it's Fow - and after almost 3 years I know it's kinda hard to mess up there.
3. I just wanted some fun and I didn't care how far we got. FoW is pretty much the only place I use human parties these days - so success is always a secondary issue when I do that!
4. IT'S MY BLOODY PARTY!

I don't care what triggers your yelling-extravaganza - take it somewhere else!

there are no bad players in guild wars.
Just stupid people.
anyone can beat 95% of the game by following the instructions of someone that has a clue, and i try to drum this into the heads of my party everytime I pug.

let me tell you all a little story.

I was taking my ele through proph the other day, and i decided to pug the mission "ring of fire" which i had already done on my other characters. We had a ranger in my party with a terrible poisen arrow build and generic 1k armour, but he was willing to follow directions and played just fine (so i had no problem with him).

The we had another guy in the party who was a Sin with a R10 ursan blessing, oby sword, vabbian armour, and a dread mask. He incorectly aggroed, didn't focus on the ether seal target, and was just doing his own thing. Most off all, he didnt listen to directions, respond, or ask questions.


Which person would i rather complete the whole game with? guess.

Agree. I fall into category number 4, and what's irritating is what you said about the people in PvP who treat all bad players poorly. I play AB when i do PvP at all, otherwise PvE. I absolutely can't stand it when I do something wrong and I get pm's or chat of some sort saying "omfg you noob don't do x" or something along those lines. I then quit gw and go play something else. I learned to play Day of Defeat from some of the best players in the game and thoroughly enjoy it, and pass along my own tips to new players that ask for advice. I dont rageflame players on my team because they took a bad position, threw a bad nade, etc. It happens all the time, but it's casual, so get used to it. I agree that people need to relax and I wish there were more people who would give advice in a constructive manner so I (and other #4 players) could become more and more skilled and an asset to any team. Srsly.

Its called elitism.

I place myself as the following:

2. The person who is good, and knows he is good. Actually, I am better than "good," better than "great" even -- I am God's gift to FoW. Calling me some variant on "idiotic noob" will lead me to ruin your FoW run when I join as a desperately needed Bonder Monk, only to leave when we zone, because I am evil and intent on getting payback for your idiocy in thinking Searing Flames scatters mobs. The best thing you can do is know your place in GW society when it comes to FoW.

Hey some people deserve it, like those nubs in AB that think they know what they are doing but end up failing... if you AB with pugs u know what im talking about. I mean if its complete noob its no problem, but noob with attitude is big no no!

Although bad players should be expected to have a level of common sense. By the time a person plays an alliance battle, they should have the level of common and general knowledge not to use flare on a ranger. You should be able to realize you dont have enough energy to spam it, and if you read expertise, you should be able to realize it does not say spells. This lack of common sense annoys people, because it brings the effectiveness of the team down, making the game less fun for some.

All it takes to get into AB nowadays is rolling your first PvP char into GToB and a quick whisp to the guild recruiter spamming AD1.
I'm not realy sure why you'd have high expectations of anyone there yet, it's pretty much the same as RA, except that atm, you can choose to have control over your party's builds. Just be sure to ask them to ping it for you, then weed out what ever you think is going to cause your game to be "less fun".

I don't help newbs learn simply because it frustrates me having to teach them. One time I was helping this guy on the Nahpui Quarter mission and he was leading the party. I told him to get henchies but he insists on doing it duo because it gets him experience. I argue with him for ten minutes and I demand that he gets henchies or to let me lead the party but he doesn't so after five minutes I tell him I gtg and I set my status to offline and leave his group. It's impossible to help someone who doesn't WANT to learn.

I love this word. Don't like something? It's elitist!

HA'ers not letting you into their group because they want to win? OMG ELITISM
People telling you that soul reaping is still overpowered? OMG ELITISM
Nasty PvP'ers calling you names? OMG ELITISM

It's like communism, but even more insidious.

You're right, but this is actually an argument that you can turn upside down: anonymity is also perfect for all those generous and kindful people that want not to be noticed ... until of course someone has to stand up for this invisible mass of people. Reading GWG can give you a very biaised vision of the GW population (all people cheat, use Ursan, play egocentrically, etc.) which is, of course, not true. Kudos to the OP for this call to arms, spread some good thoughts and gentle behaviour around you and it'll flourish so as to make the gameplay better. Or simply continue what you were doing before.

This thread is not about the "bad" in "bad player" but making players "good". Set the example by being the example. With GW2 on the horizon and AoC which just started, apparently very toughly from the GWG thread, it's one thought to keep in mind. Don't always look for the cause outside you, but inside you.

There's also a 5th type of bad player.

The one who sucks, realizes they suck, don't take any advice, and don't talk to anyone. I run into these types of people alot.

Ex. I go into RA and there is a type 5 bad player on your team. You ask them if they want help, they don't type anything. These types of players will simply not type at all or respond to anyone. It's as if they have the chat box turned off. You're talking to them "Hey, want to some help" or "You there?". I am always willingful to help new players, but when someone just sucks, and doesnt answer you....ugh I honestly hate them.

There was consequence. Act like a jerk on persistent servers, and you'll quickly find yourself playing alone, with nobody to trade with you, nobody to group with you for that 10 person instance, nobody to take you into guild to protect you from ganking, etc...

Because there's no consequences. People aren't nice to each other because it would be their nature.

People are nice if they have something to gain, or they depend on someone in some way. And for the corner cases and baselines, there's always the law, the police and the army.

In GW, there's no law, no consequences, no inter-dependency and on top of it, there's full anonymity.

Even more, such complete social isolation gives no incentive to improve oneself. One can misbehave as much as they want, but with so many alts and instances, one will never be punished.

One very simple reason why people don't act like idiots in real life in this way is because they would get punched in the face. Of course, the biggest idiots do act like that, because they know if they do get punched in the face, they can sue the attacker.

Remove the consequence and you get hell on Earth.

You can't do anything about the bad players in the game as they are just there and get bad leadership by their leader.They don't bother reading up on boards and if so they would only read the farming forum.There is no way to change this and it way to late at this stage.

Oh Jeez Amen. Anonynmity's wonderful, until it allows people in your chat window to act like clowns and say the kinds of things that most people wouldn't say face-to-face.
I think live speech is actually a blessing in some cases--things like teamspeak and vent might actually push a person to develop live, interactive people skills, and offer real-time advice, not throwaway lines like "noob." In general, in fact, I'm not a fan of throwaway lines.

I may be bad (or rather, poorly skill-barred for a given area)...but after two years of playing, I at least have the skills to play with, if you want to kindly explain what I need...and perhaps more usefully...why I need it.

And helping people just ... is good for the game, usually. They take that help and hopefully send it along to someone else...and someone else...and someone else.

It would be nice if kindness was as viral as rudeness and low-grade humor.

Still think this board is not run by trolls, Ryker?

Multiple kinds of bad:

a) Lack of skills bad... that's understandable... if they're new...
b) No sense of attention bad... when [skill]Barrage[/skill] meets [skill]Read the Wind[/skill]
c) Copycat bad... when someone thinks using a build just like most enemies use will generate perfection...

Plenty of others... but the ultimate of extreme bad:

People who demand easier ways to get things done: The Deadbeat Bad.

Yes I do and the reason I know this is all that the troll posts are gone and we still have a good discussion going.

Missing #5 The Griefer! The person who simply plays poorly to enrage those who care about the game. The angrier you get because they make you miserable, the more power they think they have over you...they, therefor, continue to grief. Playing poorly on purpose.