Developer Updates PvP/PvE Skill Balancing - May 21st

R.Shayne

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2007

Quote:
With this week’s update we will introduce a new system to split certain skills into separate PvE and PvP versions. With this system we can update skills for one game type without affecting the other. To prepare players for the changes, we have decided to post this Dev Update as a preview. The skill changes will go live on May 22.

With the new system, we can restore skills to their original forms, so they are no longer impacted by PvP balance changes. For example:

* "Incoming!" "Incoming!": increased duration to 1..5 seconds; added PvP version with previous stats.

Where balance changes were required for PvP, but not PvE, the skill has been split and the changes will apply to the PvP version. For example:

* Assassin's Remedy Assassin's Remedy (PvP): increased Energy cost to 10.

We will be reintroducing the PvP balance changes that we tested from April 17 – May 1, but now these balance changes will apply only to PvP.

Skills that differ in PvP play will have (PvP) listed at the end of their names when viewed in PvP outposts and matches. These skills will automatically be adjusted within PvP outposts and matches. Players can equip their skills as normal, and the game will use the PvP version where appropriate.

We recognize that this is a new system, with different stats possible for the same skill in PvE and PvP. We intend to use this system to the benefit of all players, and maintain our dedication to careful evaluation of each skill that we balance. Since this is the initial roll-out for the new system, we altered more skills than we would expect to in future updates.


List of Skills Affected

Restoration of Skill Effectiveness in PvE

In this update, we will restoring a number of skills so that they work similar to how they used to before various PvP-related game balances. Each of the following skill restored in this way will also have a PvP version:

Assassin

* Shadow Form Shadow Form: increased duration to 5..30 seconds.

Mesmer

* Energy Drain Energy Drain: decreased recharge to 20 seconds.
* Energy Tap Energy Tap: decreased recharge to 20 seconds; decreased casting time to 2 seconds.

Necromancer

* Discord Discord: decreased casting time to 1 second.

Elementalist

* Ether Renewal Ether Renewal: increased duration to 5..20 seconds; increased Energy gain to 1..4.

Monk

* Light of Deliverance Light of Deliverance: decreased recharge to 6 seconds.

Warrior

* "Watch Yourself!" "Watch Yourself!": increased number of attacks before "Watch Yourself!" ends to 10.

Ritualist

* Ritual Lord Ritual Lord: increased Spirit recharge reduction to 15..75%.

Ranger

* Penetrating Attack Penetrating Attack: increased damage to 5..25.
* Sundering Attack Sundering Attack: increased damage to 5..25.

Paragon

* "Incoming!" "Incoming!": increased duration to 1..5 seconds.
* Defensive Anthem Defensive Anthem: decreased activation time to 1 second.

Restoration of April Balance Changes (PvP)

We will also reintroduce the PvP balance changes that we tested from April 17 – May 1, along with a few other tweaks to skills. These balance changes will apply only to PvP.

Assassin

* Assassin's Remedy Assassin's Remedy (PvP): increased Energy cost to 10.
* Shadow Form Shadow Form (PvP): decreased duration to 5..15 seconds.

Necromancer

* Enfeeble Enfeeble (PvP): increased recharge to 10 seconds.

Elementalist

* Blinding Surge Blinding Surge (PvP): decreased recharge to 3 seconds; decreased Blind duration to 1..5 seconds.
* Ward Against Melee Ward Against Melee (PvP): decreased duration to 1..18 seconds.
* Lightning Orb Lightning Orb (PvP): this skill no longer causes Cracked Armor.

Monk

* Aegis Aegis (PvP): increased Energy cost to 15.

Ritualist

* Ancestors' Rage Ancestors' Rage (PvP): increased casting time to 1 second.
* Splinter Weapon Splinter Weapon (PvP): increased recharge to 8 seconds.
* Death Pact Signet Death Pact Signet (PvP): increased casting time to 4 seconds.
* Flesh of My Flesh Flesh of My Flesh (PvP): increased recharge to 10 seconds.

Dervish

* Mystic Sweep Mystic Sweep (PvP): increased activation time to 1 second.
* Eremite's Attack Eremite's Attack (PvP): increased activation time to 1 second.

Paragon

* "Never Surrender!" "Never Surrender!" (PvP): decreased duration to 10 seconds.
* Ballad of Restoration Ballad of Restoration (PvP): increased recharge time to 30 seconds.
* Harrier's Toss Harrier's Toss (PvP): increased activation time to 1 second.
* Song of Restoration Song of Restoration (PvP): increased recharge time to 30 seconds.

Restoration of April Balance Changes (PvE and PvP)

These skills were part of the the April Balance change and needed to be restored for PvP balance but didn't warrant splitting the skills into separate PvE and PvP versions. Some are skill improvements we wanted to apply to both PvE and PvP; others are power reductions we felt would have minimal impact on PvE balance. The one exception is Steelfang Slash, which was not a part of the April Balance update. It was added to this list to deal with particular multi-weapon skill combinations that allowed a player to repeatedly chain knockdowns on an opponent.

Mesmer

* Hex Breaker Hex Breaker: this skill now counts as a Stance.
* Fragility Fragility: decreased Energy cost to 5.
* Fevered Dreams Fevered Dreams: decreased recharge to 8.
* Chaos Storm Chaos Storm: decreased Energy cost to 5.
* Energy Surge Energy Surge: increased Energy lost to 1..10; decreased damage done per Energy to 9.
* Energy Burn Energy Burn: increased Energy lost to 1..10; decreased damage done per Energy to 9.

Elementalist

* Glyph of Concentration Glyph of Concentration: decreased number of spells that cannot be interrupted to 1.
* Shockwave Shockwave: increased casting time to 1 second.

Warrior

* Disarm Disarm: decreased skill disable time to 0..3 seconds; increased recharge to 20 seconds.
* Steelfang Slash Steelfang Slash: increased recharge to 1 second.
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Developer_Updates

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jetdoc
Shadow Form: 5..30 sec duration (PvE) vs. 5..15 sec duration (PvP)
Assassin's Remedy: 5 Energy cost (PvE) vs. 10 Energy cost (PvP).
-----
Energy Drain: 20 sec recharge (PvE) vs. 25 sec recharge (PvP)
Energy Tap: 20 sec recharge, 2 sec cast (PvE) vs. 25 sec recharge, 3 sec cast (PvP)
-----
Discord: 1 sec cast (PvE) vs. 2 sec cast (PvP)
Enfeeble: 5 sec recharge (PvE) vs. 10 sec recharge (PvP).
-----
Ether Renewal: 5..20 sec duration, 1..4 Energy gain (PvE) vs. 7 sec duration, 1..3 Energy gain (PvP)
Blinding Surge: 4 sec recharge, 4..7 sec blind (PvE) vs. 3 sec recharge, 1..5 sec blind (PvP)
Ward Against Melee: 5..17 sec duration (PvE) vs. 1..18 sec duration (PvP).
Lightning Orb: causes Cracked Armor (PvE) vs. does not cause Cracked Armor (PvP)
-----
Light of Deliverance: 6 sec recharge (PvE) vs. 10 sec recharge (PvP)
Aegis: 10 Energy cost (PvE) vs. 15 Energy cost (PvP).
-----
"Watch Yourself!": lasts for 10 attacks (PvE) vs. 1..3 attacks (PvP)
-----
Ritual Lord: 15..75% reduces spirit recharge (PvE) vs. 15..51% (PvP)
Ancestors' Rage: 0.25 sec cast (PvE) vs. 1 sec cast (PvP)
Splinter Weapon: 5 sec recharge (PvE) vs. 8 sec recharge (PvP)
Death Pact Signet: 3 sec cast (PvE) vs. 4 sec cast (PvP)
Flesh of My Flesh: 4 sec recharge (PvE) vs. 10 sec recharge (PvP)
-----
Penetrating/Sundering Attack: 5..25 damage (PvE) vs. 3..9 damage (PvP)
-----
"Incoming!": 1..5 sec duration (PvE) vs. 1..3 sec duration (PvP)
Defensive Anthem: 1 sec cast (PvE) vs. 2 sec cast (PvP)
"Never Surrender!": 15 sec duration (PvE) vs. 10 sec duration (PvP)
Ballad of Restoration: 20 sec recharge (PvE) vs. 30 sec recharge (PvP)
Song of Restoration: 20 sec recharge (PvE) vs. 30 sec recharge (PvP)
Harrier's Toss: 0.5 sec activation (PvE) vs. 1 sec activation (PvP)
-----
Mystic Sweep: 0.75 sec activation (PvE) vs. 1 sec activation (PvP)
Eremite's Attack: 0.75 sec activation (PvE) vs. 1 sec activation (PvP)
First I was expecting more of a change in pvp so a little under impressed by the changes in pvp. I was really expecting some drastic changes in that area. I did not expect to see any “Restoration of Skill Effectiveness in PvE”, I was expecting them to not change anything in PvE and leave as it is.

PvE
[Shadow Form] [Ether Renewal] As a farmer I like this change. Some of these changes appear to be directed right at farmers or could be because of my limited view of the game caused by what I experience in the game.

PvP
I don’t do pvp so other then was expecting more no view on these changes.

PvE/PvP
Mesmer have gotten some attention in PvP and PvE. Nice buff on some of the skills (not too much but enough).

Lynyrd Skynyrd

Lynyrd Skynyrd

Banned

Join Date: May 2008

I could have sworn "excellent English skills" was a requirement for employment?




Basically, they're making skills stupidly easy to use in PvE..?


Stupid.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

Epic lolz.

(Well, at least Mandragorway is possible for use on a hero again! Time to res my thread! )

Richardt

Richardt

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2007

http://friendsofloa.com/forum

Leader-Legion of Avalon [LoA] Alliance-Recruiting PM for info!

I'll have to try Incoming on my hero paras now.

I know of one guildie that will be happy about the WY! buff for PvE.

Dr Strangelove

Dr Strangelove

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Dec 2005

Wasting away again in Margaritaville

[HOTR]

TBH, only the Watch Yourself! buff is interesting for PvE. I suppose the shadow form buff matters to hardcore farmers, but meh.

Tadzio

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2006

Mo/

Gogo ursan and imbagon!
/facepalm

[email protected]

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2006

Order Of The Ghost Dragons [mist]

E/

Assassin

* Shadow Form: increased duration to 5..30 seconds.

gonna make farming a whole lot easier...

Squishy ftw

Squishy ftw

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2007

Your backline

W/

It all seems nice..but.. WHY the buff to SF ?

Gift3d

Gift3d

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2007

Las Vegas

Enraged Whiny Carebears [oR]

W/E

Oh man. I had a feeling the "temporary" tourny skill changes would be making a comeback along with the introduction of PvP/PvE skill balancing. Unfortunately my thoughts were correct >;[

Still though, i'm glad to see something like this finally implemented into the game, so i'm still excited. Can't wait to see how this turns out tomorrow.

Jensy

Jensy

Site Contributor

Join Date: Apr 2007

Phoenix, Arizona

Blinkie Ponie Armie [bpa]

N/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squishy ftw
It all seems nice..but.. WHY the buff to SF ?
Clearly MOAR raptors need to die, duh?

Longasc

Longasc

Forge Runner

Join Date: May 2005

This is quite a long list of skills. I thought they wanted to start with a "handful".

It seems the complete seperation of PvE and PvP is only a matter of time.
Shadow Form has one use in PvE, farming.

They care for Farmers and buff all skills to heaven.

What did I actually expect from a balancer that basically said pve is for idiots and that people like imba skills.

Sniper22

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2005

What a load of garbage, 90% of that stuff didn't even need to be separated. Is a one second casting time on discord of pve so much better than the 2 seconds in pvp... Not a big difference at all. Don't even think paragons needed the pvp nerf because they can be countered easily... especially by necros.

Ya, and thats more than just a few skills like they previously said.

English Warrior

English Warrior

LEET HAXXOR!

Join Date: Feb 2007

Random Arena

N/A

Shadow Form Buff (LULZ)

street peddler

street peddler

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2007

at least they killed shadow form for pvp...finally.

Quote:
Don't even think paragons needed the pvp nerf because they can be countered easily... especially by necros.
but ya see...no.

Malice Black

Site Legend

Join Date: Oct 2005

Only skill that needed buffing was WY!

DarkNecrid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

Told you guys they weren't going to nerf anything in PvE. The majority hates nerfs and loves buffs, and have public outcries when ANYTHING gets nerfed.

dododododoo sucks to be youuu

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sniper22
What a load of garbage, 90% of that stuff didn't even need to be separated. Is a one second casting time on discord of pve so much better than the 2 seconds in pvp... Not a big difference at all. Don't even think paragons needed the pvp nerf because they can be countered easily... especially by necros.

Ya, and thats more than just a few skills like they previously said.
1 second is a huge difference. That's the difference between 9.9 out of 10 Rangers/Mesmers interrupting you if needed and a somewhat smaller amount interrupting you if needed.

Joseph Leito

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2007

Claw of the Dragon

R/Mo

Yay! They unnerfed Sundering Shot! Now they just need to make Power Shot worth putting on a bar.

And maybe buff Melandru's Shot a bit, I used to love that skill.

BlackSephir

BlackSephir

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2006

A/N

I'm pretty good at maintaining perma SF, now it'll be even easier. Lulz.

jhu

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2007

oh good, incoming is now somewhat more useful again.

White Lies

White Lies

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Feb 2007

Nothing really that brilliant about it all, but i guess it'll make the farmers happy and items drop in rarety.... the only one im really bothered about is shadow form for the perma shadow builds that i love the look of but cant use due to horrible timing :P, so that'll be something.
Also a quick note: Anets original idea was to make PvE'ers move towards PvP with their characters once they'd finished everything and blown everything up. IMO this is going to make it harder because PvE'ers (like myself) wont really know how the 'new' skills work in relation with how the 'old' skills used to. I've only just started getting interested in PvP (so as sort-of mentioned before, im still getting used to the way it works), and, even if this will open up LOADS of PvE options, I'd still like to use the 6 of the 8 character slots I have dedicated to PvE in PvP but im worried that players who have played PvE for a while will shun PvP with the view that it is NOTHING like what it used to be, which will probably not be the case.
Some bits may not make sense but i hope i got my general message across

Mini Masher

Mini Masher

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2006

[pink]

W/

I still don't think I'm going to like this. Making it easier is the same as making it boring, and boring isn't fun.

I D E L E T E D I

I D E L E T E D I

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2007

[BAAA] guest me NOW

Mo/

Only thing i will think about running again is LoD, have to see how it pans out with my current hero setup.

But this still doesn't change my view on this whole separation thing. Its crap it will make Transision from PvE to PvP alot harder in the future with more skills being changed.

moriz

moriz

??ber t??k-n??sh'??n

Join Date: Jan 2006

Canada

R/

wow, ether renewal got un-ether renewal'd? interesting.

Witchblade

Witchblade

Polar Bear Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

hmm well, i rarely/never use most those, but s'ok i guess

Snow Bunny

Snow Bunny

Alcoholic From Yale

Join Date: Jul 2007

Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]

Good for PvE, no more QQing hopefully. However, PvE will be so frighteningly easy who cares?

Molock

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2006

Qu??bec

Legacy of Angels [Halo]

E/

Interesting... of course they went too far.. not that we all expected just that.

Aera Lure

Aera Lure

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

In Baltar's head

Bring Out Your Dead [BOYD], former officer [LBS]

Mo/

Izzy made a comment in an article linked somewhere else where he basically said what most people want in PvE is overpowered skills. He couldnt be more wrong, imho. PvE wants its own balance, more skills brought out from the uselessness in which they currently exist, more diverse partying. I for one never wanted overpowered skills (Ursan, this new trend) and consumables. Sigh. He is right though that the constant changes (usually nerfs) to skills is quite a bit less popular among PvE play than it is in PvP.

FengShuiDove

FengShuiDove

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2007

Trinity of the Ascended [ToA]

A/

Shadow Form buff is nice... but it makes me and my ability to easily run perma-Shadow less leet, which kinda blows. Check it: if they hold the rations from 16/12 then:

At 16 Shadow Arts Shadow Form lasts 21 seconds; whereas 17 seconds for 12 SA. The ratio is 1.235:1, so with 30 seconds at 12 SA, predicted time for 16 SA is now 37 seconds. With a 20% enchanting you get 44 seconds. Deadly Paradox reduces recharge to .67, so 40 seconds.

See ya later Arcane Echo. Hello Perma-Shadow even through Nature's Renewal.

I can't see that strong of a Shadow Form lasting long though. It was arguably the front runner for most godly farming build along with Terra already. I'm gonna go solo the whole UW by myself. /evil

Bryant Again

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aera Lure
Izzy made a comment in an article linked somewhere else where he basically said what most people want in PvE is overpowered skills. He couldnt be more wrong, imho. PvE wants its own balance, more skills brought out from the uselessness in which they currently exist, more diverse partying. I for one never wanted overpowered skills (Ursan, this new trend) and consumables. Sigh. He is right though that the constant changes (usually nerfs) to skills is quite a bit less popular among PvE play than it is in PvP.
His wording - most people prefer overpowered shit and "feelin' epic" - couldn't actually be more closer to the truth. The majority wants things handed to them, unfortunately.

moriz

moriz

??ber t??k-n??sh'??n

Join Date: Jan 2006

Canada

R/

we can now go A/W and use warrior adrenaline attacks to farm, which eliminates the energy problem that shadow form sins always have. interesting.

FoxBat

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2006

Amazon Basin [AB]

Mo/Me

So farming's been keeping Shadow Form griefing alive all this time? Hilarious.

Interesting side effect is that mesmers should be able to pull off perma-form too.

Time to bring back Ether Renewal infuse spam?

zwei2stein

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

Quote:
Originally Posted by FengShuiDove
Shadow Form buff is nice... but it makes me and my ability to easily run perma-Shadow less leet, which kinda blows. Check it: if they hold the rations from 16/12 then:

At 16 Shadow Arts Shadow Form lasts 21 seconds; whereas 17 seconds for 12 SA. The ratio is 1.235:1, so with 30 seconds at 12 SA, predicted time for 16 SA is now 37 seconds. With a 20% enchanting you get 44 seconds. Deadly Paradox reduces recharge to .67, so 40 seconds.

See ya later Arcane Echo. Hello Perma-Shadow even through Nature's Renewal.

I can't see that strong of a Shadow Form lasting long though. It was arguably the front runner for most godly farming build along with Terra already. I'm gonna go solo the whole UW by myself. /evil
iirc, time posted is at 15 att ... there is no perma SF without a-echo for you .... yet.

Cathode_Reborn

Cathode_Reborn

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2006

"Coward" + Steelfang isn't so cool anymore =/

I thought they would've had a better way to deal with the weapon-swap kd thing.

English Warrior

English Warrior

LEET HAXXOR!

Join Date: Feb 2007

Random Arena

N/A

still no deadly paradox reversion?Q.Q

Snow Bunny

Snow Bunny

Alcoholic From Yale

Join Date: Jul 2007

Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aera Lure
Izzy made a comment in an article linked somewhere else where he basically said what most people want in PvE is overpowered skills. He couldnt be more wrong, imho. PvE wants its own balance, more skills brought out from the uselessness in which they currently exist, more diverse partying. I for one never wanted overpowered skills (Ursan, this new trend) and consumables. Sigh. He is right though that the constant changes (usually nerfs) to skills is quite a bit less popular among PvE play than it is in PvP.
Aera, I'm going out on a limb and saying that the vast, vast majority of the GW playerbase would prefer Searing Flames to deal 1000 damage as opposed to dealing 96.

Most players want to blow shit up, not have a challenge.

Nittle Grasper

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2007

E/

now I'm glad I have a sin

Mr. Undisclosed

Mr. Undisclosed

I phail

Join Date: Mar 2007

Phailville

D/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aera Lure
Izzy made a comment in an article linked somewhere else where he basically said what most people want in PvE is overpowered skills. He couldnt be more wrong, imho. PvE wants its own balance, more skills brought out from the uselessness in which they currently exist, more diverse partying. I for one never wanted overpowered skills (Ursan, this new trend) and consumables. Sigh. He is right though that the constant changes (usually nerfs) to skills is quite a bit less popular among PvE play than it is in PvP.
You must have been referring to the guru community on that one. Gw is aimed towards the casual players and I'm pretty sure the casual players like being imba. The guru community is but a very small portion of the actualy player base.

Aera Lure

Aera Lure

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2005

In Baltar's head

Bring Out Your Dead [BOYD], former officer [LBS]

Mo/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
Most players want to blow shit up, not have a challenge.
Bah. You're probably right. Well, at least the PvE/PvP split will presumably allow that full tilt as the weeks go on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Undisclosed
You must have been referring to the guru community on that one. Gw is aimed towards the casual players and I'm pretty sure the casual players like being imba. The guru community is but a very small portion of the actualy player base.
Probably I was, but unintentionally.

fgarvin

fgarvin

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
Aera, I'm going out on a limb and saying that the vast, vast majority of the GW playerbase would prefer Searing Flames to deal 1000 damage as opposed to dealing 96.

Most players want to blow shit up, not have a challenge.
Flare doing 1000 damge...now, that would be awesome.

Vinraith

Vinraith

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2006

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mini Masher
I still don't think I'm going to like this. Making it easier is the same as making it boring, and boring isn't fun.
Amen to that.