Why does ANet have to cater to the "inexperienced?"

Ursan and all the Buffs in the world cannot fix stupid, yes it is accesible to more people but not everyone. A noob is a noob with or without ursan. The only difference is the Ursan noob might get into a group.

If the shoe fits,

you seem to go on and on and you keep saying i am mostly WOW ect.not casual as some guys here have wow also

the second post made it clear lol


But ill add a few things if I may,

There is something that draws you to here , could it really be that you just like to agigite some people.or you really like Guild wars in a way that you like some sort of belonging.

May I ask were you experianced when you first started any game, of you were not!

Anet has done a great job and it caters ..for all,

I will not speak of numbers as you know statistics suit whoever posts them
but, guys get motovated by greed wether it may be ectos or whatever, Iam all for allowing newer people to obtain certain items..

This is not as any sort of comeback on you but your first post made me think whats the hidden agenda..to get people to respond to you(feeling wanted)

anyways nothing constructive in my posts only trthats you keep quting Wow but this is Guild Wars....not WOW

Well for one level advancement in WoW takes a lot longer. If a person only has a certain amount of time in a day to play it’s going to be a lot easier for them to advance in GW then WoW to see endgame content. GW max level can be reached in a few days or even a day if a player is really working on it. WoW was never meant to be that way. Of course they have so many active accounts because the players keep paying to retain the achievements they’ve earned. For all you know they’re paying but not always playing. The fact that you’ve stated a lot of players have never even reached end game content is kind of sad. It takes that long to get there?

Blizzard also caters to the dumbing down process. If you can’t beat something, go and kill enough lower monsters to raise your level to kill the boss or high levels monsters that were giving you trouble. Keep paying Blizzard long enough and play long enough and you’ll be powerful enough to kill everything. You see these super powered players on You Tube.

The bolded part of your statement is what GW is trying to avoid imo. Blizzard doesn’t need to open it up because it takes so long to get there for the non hardcore player. Paying the fees keeps them playing but it takes them forever to reach endgame content due to time constraints. It’s kind of like holding your character ransom. If you don’t pay, they’ll “kill” the toon.

I'm sorry if my comment offended you Bryant, it certainly wasn't my intent.

I merely meant to point out that Blizzards definition of "subscription account" here http://www.blizzard.com/us/press/070724.html isn't consistant from market to market. Asian accounts are limited to one character but all accounts linked share the same billing time. I have 8 Characters on GW so if I were in China I'd represent 8 accounts.

Still that's not the point of this thread is it. I think holymasamune sums it up nicely:

At least GW used to operate on the principle of skill>time, and to some fashion, it still does. WoW & other traditional MMOs never have. Sure, an area in a traditional MMO is difficult... if you didn't spend the time leveling, and farming enemies, killing bosses, to get the better armor. But those types of things give you a passive advantage. GW was designed to have a proactive advantage - i.e. you had to use brains more than hours.

So maybe aNet has switched their principle a little bit, but at least it never set out to cater to folk who can't tell the difference between grind and skill. IMO, GW allows for a far greater depth of skill than traditional MMOs, even in its current shabby state.

WoW has a monthly fee, thats where they get their money from. GW doesnt, so they need to attract new players etc to get it. I think that would probably explain a bit of it

Well im positive this has been stated atleast a billion times in the previous posts, ill sum it up for those who have a seizure at 5+ lines of text:

WoW has a monthly fee.
GW does not.




A uber pr0 1337 WoW player is paying his 15$ a month just like a complete noob is.

A uber pr0 1337 GW player payed his moneyz a long time ago, and is no longer contributing to the company (of course there are exceptions - double accounts, in-game-store stuff, but these are, as said, exceptions), a noob has payed his money recently. Saying they're making it appealing to "noobs" is only 50% correct: they're making it appealing to future noobs, its incentive to buy the game (they can feel pr0 right off the bat) and even better - get they're friend to buy it.

I think the big thing is that WoW gets it's money from retention and GW gets its money from bringing new players.
WoW wants to make things more fun, challenging, and exciting to keep players playing and more importantly paying.
GW makes money on new players buying their product and hopefully expansions upon that product. It's a lot easier to bring someone in to play an easier game. After you buy the game and a few of the expansions and whatnot GW has already made it's money, and I hate to say this so why worry too greatly about keeping the game fun, challenging, and exciting. Yes it is still semi-important for them to do so in order to cater to the experienced gamers, but the majority of the gaming community likes games that are easier to learn and pick up.

Solution - Add fees to the game and keep it good instead of making it worse just to please the masses.

They dont need to charge $15 a month, they could maybe just charge $5 and keep the game good, rather then continuously ruin it because it is free to play.

And by catering to new players, they piss of a lot of players, even hardcore fans that have been playing the game for years. Great strategy.

Noobs tend to have already paid for the game they are so badly playing.

I'll tell you why (in my opinion) Arena Net have made Guild Wars easier with stuff like Ursan Blessing, skill buffs, etc. It's pretty simple and logical if you think about it... Guild Wars 2.

More people will buy Guild Wars 2 if they find it easier to fill their Hall of Monuments, etc, in Guild Wars. The easier stuff is to work towards in Guild Wars, the more incentive people will have to do it, and the more incentive they have to do that means they will have more incentive to buy Guild Wars 2 to reap the rewards from doing it.

If that makes any sense to anyone...

Yeah, I think GW kinda dug themselves into a hole on this one. To make money they need new players, to get new players they have to make game worse (for the most part), in the process of getting new players they lose old ones. Unfortunately because of the way they chose to make money this process has to continue for them to keep making money, potentially leading to a big breakdown of the game. I hope that GW finds someway to solve this problem.

Very simple actually, because the model works for them. Why alter success?

What I can tell from Elitist Propaganda is that if you weren't with GW from the day it started, you don't deserve to hold the jock of veteran players.

Not everything in this game, or the world, is about you.

If people want to play casual, let them. Anet seems to be doing a pretty good job of catering to newer players, and the veteran players. The only one cramping your play style is you. Learn to adapt to change or don't.

Making hard mode = easy mode with Ursan Blessing isnt catering to casual players.

Hard mode was meant to be elite, it wasnt meant to be easy. NM is already easy enough for new and casual players, the game caters well enough for these players.

Elite areas and Hard Mode are meant to be what their name suggests. They arent meant to be for players that just started playing an hour ago.

Why UB?
I think ANet decided that everyone should have the opportunity to experience the more difficult and elite areas of the game, maybe because people complained maybe for some other reason. I don't think ANet wanted to completely abandon(as some would say) their skill over time motto, but the comunity rejected it, the only way to get into a DoA group was to have a specific build for one of 3 professions. If you weren't the right profession with the right build you would have a very hard time getting in, this was never the intention and may be at least part of the reason for UB.

Why is WoW able to retain despite not "dumbing down"?
Well I know very little about WoW, but I've rarely heard anyone say skill>time when talking about it, this is not necessarily bad, I think it is what many expect from the classical MMO. What it does mean is that there is no expectation for everyone to be able to take part.
My hypothesis would be that upon reaching lvl 70 and realising you cannot complete end game content, instead of quiting many block out this fact because they do not wish to acknowledge that they wasted their money reaching max level to then have nothing to do, so they find other things to entertain themselves and are happy. This may only apply to a small number of people but it could account for some of the observed statistics.
A second factor is that people are still on their way to max level, expecting to be able to complete end game content when they arrive. They are yet to realise that they will have wasted their time.
It is also quite possible that WoW with its monthly fee provides enough "non-elite" content to keep players happy whatever their level even if they can't complete everything.

I think some of why they made things 'easier' is not for the inexperienced, but for the causal gamer....

take CG1 (thats causal gamer 1) who only plays on weekends...he can get thru most of the missions and stuff with no problems in the amount of time he plays, can do vanquishing and even some elite areas.

now CG2 can only play for an hour or so MAX each time he CAN get on---that counts out most of the harder areas and vanquishing etc...so those are basically out of his reach--now add in ursan and consumables--now he has a chance to play those areas and such.

so I dont think its just the inexperienced that are getting the benefit of this catering...but also the casual gamer!

That's an over exaggeration, considering the hoops players have to go through to get certain skills and to certain areas, even if it's only a few days work.

Let me ask you, and others this - if you want to retain good players, get them to your "standards" so you're happy to play with them, have them support the game as much as you do/did, how do you expect them to stick around with such an anti-newbie sentiment endemic in elitist veterans?

New players have to learn the basics. Experienced players don't need to learn as much as inexperienced ones...

That's why they "cater" to the inexperienced... last I checked, most, if not all games give instruction booklets for a reason.

Are you just failing to read, or taking my point out of context entirely?

How can you play elite areas or hard mode as soon as you have picked up the game? You cant. You need to play through the game first, get better at it, and once you have aquired the skills, you can play those areas.

It is what I did, and what everyone else before Ursan did. Why should new players be treated any differently then we have?

I couldnt care how long someone has been playing for, if they have the skills, they can play. And obtaining the neccessary skills is probably far less grind then it is to get R10 Ursan just so you can play noobway in HM and Elite areas.

This is the argument a lot of players think about when they talk about Ursan, SY, and other PvE skills. If you are a "casual" player, then the regular game should be just fine for you. Otherwise, you ARE NOT A CASUAL PLAYER. HM, elite areas, etc. were made for those who wanted a challenge in the PvE side, without having to go hardcore PvP.

The main reason they gave us these skills, especially Ursan, was the HoM. It was designed to keep interest in a game that is pretty much done. They gave max titles and trophies for everyone to work on until the beta of GW2 leaks out. For every person who can grind out a r6 KoaBD in a month or two, there will be plenty of casual players who will take a long time doing so. They will also be able to bring in new casual players to the game, get them hooked, and have a higher chance of retaining people in the franchise for GW2. That's a lot easier than having to gain a whole new group of players.

I think another reason for the dumbing down is testing. Yes, "people are still playing the game." Face it, though. Advancement of the game ended with EotN. You could argue it ended with Nightfall. It is now a static environment for them to test new features for GW2. Skill separation was mentioned by Jeff Strain almost a year ago for GW2. PvE skills were a way to try this out, and now they are giving us the actual skill separation.

They were forced to do this because of the pay-once format they adopted. In that environment, your options of content and format are limited. It gives you the advantage of gaining casual players who can leave the game for up to months at a time, as well as giving an incentive for people to pick up the game; but it carries the disadvantage of how you can go about getting that income to add content to the game, as well as the kind of content you can add.

I'd still take the PvP side over anything out there, from the anarchy and randomness of AB/RA, to the high-level challenge of GvG, to the near-constant balancing of the game to keep a skill>time played ethic alive. PvE isn't like that. It's set up to attract new players to the game and give them everything they need to have fun in the game. For those who want more... you can always PvP.

It is MUCH easier to just buff skills to make things easier then it is to add more end game content. That being said, GW is also free to play, so we shouldn't expect huge content updates anyways

It is that very thing that a lot of people who play GW don't want. It is nice to jump and jump out of the game whenever you want. Many people do not want to invest that type of time in a game.

/thread

WoW and GW aren't directly comparable, which is why the OP is confused. The fee structure is different and the design philosophy is different.

Consider this: most players fail at games, have always failed, and will always fail. Now ask yourself - how do you sell a game to these people? Do you think people like being frustrated by failure - and more importantly, do you think they would pay money to experience that frustration?

I've been gaming for a while, I played MUDs and Diablo before I finally played Everquest. I gave up EQ, refused WoW, tried LoTRO, and came to GW.

Part of the issue with why WoW hasn't change their game to get new blood is because their player base does it for them. The players "sell" WoW to their friends.

I have several friends (Ex-EQ'rs) who when I tell them I am playing GW, they tell me I should play WoW, it's so great. I let them know I'm not interested in playing catch up (grinding up to level 80, been there, got T-Shirt in EQ) and they tell me they can level me up in no time so I can play with them. I have to go through this every three to four months.

I find it ironic that I have had to choose between playing a game I like, or playing a different game with my friends that I've known for over ten years. It was a hard choice, but not playing WoW didn't mean we stopped being friends.

Guild Wars players don't sell GW. Period. I never met anyone who played this game "seriously" in real life, or who told me I "had to try it." I meet WoW addicts all the time, they try to get you hooked cause they know that if they get you, in the game and on their server, eventually you'll be able to help them get their next fix, a shiny bauble on their toon.

So since GW players don't sell GW, Anet has to figure out some other way to bring new blood in, and keep them.

More later.

Just answer to op, cant read the whole thread ( sorry if this have been said): Blizzard wants /needs to keep people playing ( paying) and making things easier wouldnt go be so good for them, since players ( myself included) would stop sooner if the game is easier than it is now. This way you have to get to lvl 70 1st, than you have to go through painful process of getting pugs to do raids and get good gear, than you have to find a good rading guild and go trhough even more painful process of getting into that guild and than start playing and seeing whole end game things, which most of the players dont do ever, but they still play in hope it will happen so they countine playing and thus paying. Guild Wars has whole different concept, it's a game that you pay once and that's all, so ofc its more newb friendly. I don't know why they brought Ursan to the game, I dont know why they did many things they did, but I do understand why its so different than WOW , common sense should tell you that.

Maybe ArenaNet just secretly wants to give their players what they want, even if that involves taking on elite content without having to learn any great deal of tactics and co-ordination.

12$$$$$$$$$$.














I could have just summed it up with that, but for moderators' sake, I'll put my opinion into words:

New players = new cash. Old players = old, used-up cash.
New players = income. Old players = exist.

The only thing I can hope for with GW2 is that ANet gives the oldest players super big bonuses for playing GW the longest, like giant fireworks, or spiffy decorative armor, or cool looking player models - basically anything that wouldn't affect gameplay at all. Old players are here on GW because they like it here, or they would have gone somewhere else, and many old players seem to be looking forward to GW2.

So ANet doesn't really have to do anything for them until it's released.

This is simple:
WoW is doing so good simply cause it has Blizzard in its name.
Plus monthly fees of course.

I agree with some parts and disagree with some parts of this, but overall a great post.
I agree that WoW players need other players to do well in the game. I don't need other players in GW to do well in the game. However, a point to add is that for both games I have found, they are much more fun and fulfilling if you play with RL friends. I tried WoW on a free server, and it was okay, but I would not have played unless some of my friends started playing too. I also enjoyed GW a lot more when my roommate played with me, but he stopped a while ago.... although I do have access to his account, so I pretty much have a second account (he doesn't mind ).
WoW is also very addicting. GW isn't....at first. Another one of my friends tried playing GW, and ended up not really enjoying it, but he definitely enjoyed WoW a lot more.
But, all good things come to an end, right? Imagine how many of the 400,000 AoC players divorced WoW last week...or how many GW players....I think the strong sales of AoC indicate that people are moving on.

While I agree that the introduction of PvE only skills was to spark more interest in the game (spice), reduce gameplay difficulty, and thus attract more people into buying it, I don't think it was brought about the right way. As mentioned before, normal mode has become incrediably easy while hard mode has become the new normal mode.

In my opinion, hard mode was a very good option for those who were looking for more challenges. However, ANet destroyed it by introducing skills that would essentially convert hard mode into normal mode. If ANet wanted to sell more copies, but retain hard mode quality, an easy option would be to disallow PvE only skills in hard mode. [Please don't give me the "Hard mode was easy even before EotN PvE skill."]

So, why did ANet introduce skills to allow the game to be easy? To make it more attractive for new comers --> to make money. Hopefully, this money, as well the the various testing done through skill updates, will be used to make Guild Wars 2 a much better game to play for both casual and non-casual alike. I think concludes my answer to the opening post's question.

Yes, yes, we know, Blizzard is a much better company than Anet, WoW rules, GW is for noobs...

Ok they should make it hard enough for only 3 people to be able to play, all areas rest of us stay in the noob isle, yada yada...

If you find the game to easy go play naked or something.

Can someone phone me and let me know when they stop altering skills, especially after others have benefited from them for so long, maybe then I'll start taking GW seriously again, my number is 0800 - don't bother

I originally enjoyed GW because it was a non grinding game, now, from what I heard, mad grinders get benefits in GW 2 over casual gamers, if they want titles, give 'em titles, don't penalise the general public for having a life

I disagree with Red Sand here. It's not the players that don't sell GW it's Anet who didn't continue to allow GW to evolve. It ends at level 20 max, it ends at a 15^50 weapon max, it ends at vanity and no value other than vanity armor. Therefore all GW is is some hacking and slashing in a shoe box instead of a great world. It's over before it begins really. The content is small especially Factions and Nightfall and GWEN compared to Prophecies they didn't even take the time to give us at least equal what they delivered in Prophecies, but, they sure as heck charged you the same amounts. Even the mere expansion was nearly the full price of a retail version. So, no I won't blame the GW players for not selling GW, the game just didn't sell itself and sold everyone pretty short in the long run. The only salvation for the minimum leveling and the no evolving of characters or items and really lack of a lot of content is the PVP portion. The PVP is still fun, but, for a PVE player the end comes pretty fast unless you just like repeating the same zones and areas for nothing of value or you're into grinding for silly titles of no value, even the PVE only skills are of little value since there's really nothing to be had or that is better than someone else has. A game without futher goals is a dead game in the long run.

I really dont like how the game has been dumbed down a lot since GW:EN, Anet are trying their hardest to make it easy for new players because all the newbies see all the good stuff other characters have achievd in 3yrs and they want it too but they cant be bothered to put the effort in so they would more than likely give up and quit, so instead of letting these newer players quit the game, instead in comes the easy button [Ursan Blessing].

I dunno how your guild works, but the guilds I was in had core teams for 10 man instances like Karazhan, but to get together 28 and make a good team for the Black Temple usually took quite some time. We had to rely on friends from other guilds to complete the raid.

The other problem was when the raid had enough of a certain class or was already full. The more casual you are, the less likely you are to get a spot. I could not compete for a warlock slot in a filled raid when the others have 500+ more spelldamage on their gear.

If you are on a friendly guild people give you better gear and do not roll on it, if they have already better stuff, sure. Unfortunately you sometimes have to roll vs the guild external reinforcements!


@Prick: No, you aren't. I would say ANet are the pricks, whatever maybe economical reasons they have to dumb down the game, for the game itself they are bad and for sure will not pay off in the long run either.

There is a difference between starting to look for better gear and starting anew with a new character in a new game.
GW has an expiry date. WoW doesn't have it yet.

Well you could say that while they're catering to the "inexperienced" most of these "inexperienced" players don't even realize it.

I know several of my own guildies, they play almost everyday and are quite interested in end game game content, they've beaten all the campaigns. However they have no idea about updates/nerfs from anet. They don't read the update notes nor do they go on GWG or GWO. If it weren't for me and the other ppl in my guild, these few would have no idea what lootscaling is, or that pvp and pve suddenly became seperated.

It could be said some "inexperienced" players even play less than the ppl i'm mentioning in my guild. Thus they might even have less experience with the game and thus notice the changes even less.

Basically I'm saying, anet might be catering to them by making the game easier... but they most likely don't even realize it.

Hmmm, I'd have to disagree a little bit here. Once you hit max level, sure you can't get new talents and spells but you gear takes over as a side form of leveling. My capabilities as a Moonkin are measured by spell damage and hit rating not by my level. And really the high end raids arn't so much about skill as maxing dps, listening to the leader and luck.

However you are right in the way that really knowing your class affords you those moments of loveliness when the healer goes down and you manage to pop rebirth, put restoration on all party members cast cyclone on the offending mob and then turn back to moonkin form as the party survives! I think when you do that without thinking or panicing that is a signed that you're experienced (but not skilled) at wow.

PvP is much more about skill as you're dealing with the unexpected all the time. But in pve it's about reflexes, coolness and listening to instructions. The mobs don't do anything unexpected.

------

On topic:
Basically this is the reason I'm kinda done with GW and play WoW. Wow is constantly expanding in terms of content and it's big enough to make leveling another char different each time. Whereas GW doesn't expand much (because it's non-fee-paying) and even if they released another Sorrow's Furnace every month people would still complete it so fast that there'd be 3 weeks of waiting for the next update. Also, what would they put in that dungeon, better gear, new skins?

A lot of people have completed and are happy with their characters 'look' and the economy is a nasty place for new skins to be released into. They shake it up every time. So, skins are out. Better gear is out too. Simply there is none, GW caps off and without adjusting the caps majorly then there is no where to go.

Also a dramatic increase in gear quality (for example a sword that does 15-25 damage) would become a market disaster because everyone would own the same sword. THE max damage sword. because in GW at lvl 20 everyone is equal and therefore could have the same chance to get it. There's no difficulty.

The problem at the core of GW is the level cap. Although it is a brilliant selling point and balancing idea it starts to break the game down at a time like now, where people want new content but there's nothing to put into it. No reason to do anything because the only thing you can get out of it is exploration or a new skin...

That's the answer I think. In WoW you can improve your character though gear, gems, skins and titles. In GW you can only improve your char through new skins and titles. So in wow you can differ the content through gear requirements and thus have levels of difficulty. Whereas in Guild Wars you can't, there's nothing to determine the bad players from the good and no way to make the hard areas impossible at low experience levels but doable at high ones.

So, with no areas that can be balanced for different player groups Anet must cater for the masses. Which I suspect is teenagers. Mostly 10-16 year olds play this game and that's who they're selling too and that's why this game gets easier and easier.

In brief, because this post is very long-winded:

No way to differentiate between experienced players and not, either through gear or level
Therefore game areas are designed for the whole game population
Therefore they must be doable for people with bad skill and bad skills
Therefore they are very easy to those with coordination and good skillbars
Therefore us Guruers (who are largely quite good at this game) feel it's too easy

---------

I just want to add one more thing:

[skill]ursan blessing[/skill]
Does anyone think that Anet didn't realise they were adding an easy button into their game when they did this? There's three blessings, it wasn't like ursan was stood out to be individual or gained at the end of a hard quest or area, it just happened. Given that it's pve I suspect it didn't get much testing at all and was simply released without anyone trying it in an elite area with a full team using it. No one at anet would have said "hang on guys, this is way too easy".
Then the public discovered it and suddenly it became easy mode. Now Anet're too far in, they can't change it without massive whining from the community.
-----

sorry, one more thing :P

I think this is the key. WoW has the eternal carrot. "come on, play for another month and you might be able to beat Lady Vasjh...". People join and keep playing because there's this big pot of gold/epic lore/good feeling at the end. A boss to beat which you'll never actually do.

Whereas GW says, you can have it all! Go get it, and people do. Then there's nothing else left for them. There's no famous dungeon/big boss/races for world kills. The VIP high end makes wow epic and it makes wow famous.

I have to disagree.

Experienced players are differentiated by skills they equip and gear they equip, attribute spreads, etc. Difference is noticeable easily enough in terms of success of these people compared to bad players. If anyone pings less than 480 health and 60ish energy, you have pretty good idea where he stands on "experienced (as in good) player scale"

They got areas geared for them that were not supposed to be doable by ordinary Joe. That was kinda obvious to anyone when as aataxe can wipe full maxed group entering UW if they don't know what they are doing. Ordinary players got whole rest of PvE.

Then we got HM which is to good players what NM is to bad players - decent challenge. A casual gameplay for good players i dare to say.

Gameplay can be well split on hardcore vs casual players and it worked for while before gwen was released.

If i give anet credit and assume U was unforeseen coincidence, there are some questions:

a) Why didn't they look for degenerate gameplay elements in playtesting? My first notion when i saw all PvE skills was: how would they perform in full group situation?

b) Is skillballancer blind? Ursan works because it borrows heavily from duality concept: each character brings tons of offence, defense and is buffed to heaven. Anyone familiar with warriors and paragons should immediately see how powerful this is (unspikable tank dishing out DPS ... armor ignoring dps that is immune to all shutdown ...)

Couple of things:

1) WoW heavily nerfed the 1-60 content after TBC. Almost all elite monsters were removed from the main world, and most of the pre-TBC instances were also heavily nerfed.

2) WoW MASSIVELY improved the gear available in pre-TBC areas.

3) WoW lowered the time it took to level from 1-60 by orders of magnitude.

So, monsters were made easier, gear was made better, and levelling was made quicker.

BUT ZOMG IT ARE GUILD WARS TAHT NURFS FOR TEH NEWBIEZ.

Oh, and a word about raiding in WoW.

If you think any skill is involved, you need to get your head checked. If you're a dpser, you bind your damage macro to your mousewheel and you roll it while watching where you stand. If you're a tank, you spam all your handy aggro grabbing skills and hold onto the targets. If you're a healer, you've got tons more options wrt heals, and they're much more powerful. And if anything does break aggro? Distract it, poly it, banish it, stun it, you pick. Crowd control makes the game loltarded easy. Skill doesn't even come close to entering into the equation, especially when you can set macros LEGALLY WITHIN THE GAME that remember your targets for you and cast the appropriate skills on them with the push of a button. I kid you not.

Oh, and let's not forget that in WoW, enchants and hots can't be stripped. Okay, they can, but only by one class and incredibly rarely in pve. As in, I've never had it happen to me rarely in pve.

And you people think that WoW is harder? Are you on crack?

But hey, let's talk about pvp now. WoW's pvp is so bad that they hadn't even evolved the concept of spikes until just recently. Vent is a rarity, and almost nobody bothers with the in game voicechat. And the speed of combat is so slow that you could probably take a nap mid match while being attacked and still have time to come back and start fighting again. Oh, and did I mention healing? Healing that was balanced against monsters three levels higher than the player and with massively buffed damage? Yeah, exactly.

The whole game is easy easy easy. They hand you super weapons and tell you to go beat up rats with them. If anyone is pandering to the terminally retarded, it's WoW, not GW.