Nerf Chaos Plains or Shadowform?

I do agree with your letter.
But we've seen skills get nerfed before. We've moved on.
And... I dont suggest nerfing it completely. Reduce the duration 5 seconds. (16 Shadow Arts = 27 seconds). 6 seconds at the most to nerf it.

27 seconds = just barely cutting it (when going A/E swiftness). Makes players have to be more alert and gives them more room for error.

In all the thread's many many voluminous pages, this 1 post stood out to me. QFT man..say it like it is!!

actually... i just had this thought..

how many of you out there have stopped to think that some of the people calling for nerfs on Shadow form are people who have used it and other broken methods for obtaining huge numbers of ectos and want prices to go back up again. i mean really.... you obtain many stacks of ectos at real cheap price now and then call for a nerf only to make price of ecto;s go up by 3k each. i mean... look at it this way

merchant has ectos at 3.8k at merchant. price goes up to 4.3k at merchant 2 hours later. someone might have bought 1000ecto. so, if the price goes up to 7k, that person makes over 3000k in one hit.

how long did it take for people to call for a nerf? gave them plenty of time to raise enough ectos hoping for a nerf to raise the price again.

my suggestion is, don;t nerf shadowform, the build or the farm. i mean, you can;t even do DOA solo with it, so what;s the problem? perma-obs-flesh is imba too... and so is 55monk... and so is 330 derv or Rit.... VwK is pretty damn easy as well. Oh and the raptor farm is IMBA. just look at the way that effected the Ele Sword market. They are barely merchant fodder these days....

^.Those builds are nothing like the pera SF build as it takes 2 using a 55 build to farm the UW I am not sure about the 330 Derv and the VwK can only farm Smites and Raptors as well as the Ele can't keep Obsidian Flesh up permanently I have tried this.

To the Dark Paladin X.The 55 Monk went through the same thing if there is a balance on SF as you can't use Protective Bond and they did this because of bots as I read the past update notes aswellas adding rend enchanments.

I don't have a huge stack of ectos. I, in fact, have none. I've only soloed or duo'ed UW a couple of times. I want FoW/etc to be accessible. But I still think SF should be nerfed because it was decent before for farming, now its just crazy silly.

I too have no ecto. I rarely farm the UW. I have in the past but find it a combination of boring and frustrating. It has absolutely no latitude for error and is fairly mindless. This means I make mistakes, die, and have to restart fairly often. I can focus to that extent but I enjoy watching TV at the same time and other things. I don't mind dying when watching tv or having consumed alcohol but I hate having to spend 1 plat for the honor of goofing up. Add in that even if doing every thing perfectly there can be environment problems that make it such that you can not complete the run.

About the only times I do is when something new hits my fancy or I need gold. All the hype over how easy the perma-SF sin is made me give it a try on my sin but I found it no better or worse than other UW farming methods - just a bunch of people acting like the sky has fallen. If the community had not have panicked then little would have changed. If nerfed the players that bought into the hype and like farming it will use older builds that are as easy and effective (go ahead, claim they aren't all you want - people will figure you are a hack or stupid when they note otherwise) and those that don't like it would have quit anyway. They will stabilize at the same point regardless.

I'll probably abuse it for another week just in case it gets nerfed. It is still new enough to be different so I'm not bored with it so might as well go with it until a nerf or boredom. Nothing better to do and I find it amusing to be a part of the deflation on the price of ecto. Like those that want the price of ecto to be high I'm playing for my own enjoyment, not the community as a whole so shove it if you don't like that idea. If enough cared about doing the right thing I might think otherwise, but then again probably not on an online game.

Obviously you were not around then - many of us were. It was nerfed because the influx of gold with no money sinks made it mostly impossible for anything other than an 105 monk (not a 55 - the 55 build became popular well after all those nerfs) to play the game. Ecto were in the 40k range, sup vigor runes were 100k, sup monk runes were *all* 50+k, and anything that was remotely useful was 5+k. Heck black dye was in the 40-50k range. It made the game unplayable in the extreme for new players.

Bots had nothing to do with it, it all had to do with the massive inflation from the amounts of gold some were making. Anet has rarely cared about deflating prices (have they ever? I don't recall one but I will not say it didn't happen) but huge inflation gets them into action. We may have enough gold sinks now to take care of this, I do not know. If we don't I expect a nerf, if not then I don't expect a nerf to the whole build.

Were I to care about the community at large I would make it such that you can not outrun trap activation. The run would be MUCH harder - in fact harder than other ecto farming runs - yet not affect group runs. There are no party based missions that need you to outrun traps, there are only solo farming runs. Even then I'm sure I could change builds enough to take care of that but it would take more skill than other UW runs.

[leech signet] instead of [power drain] on the Mindblade Spectres should take care of all those obs flesh / shadow form solo adventures on the Chaos Plains.

You might want to look at my sign up date and I was around probably before you as I beta tested it in 2/19/05.There is a good thread on that old build I got saved.I only got 1 ecto to my name and I am not rich either.

How did you manage to survive before the SF buff if a nerf will have such a horrific impact on you?

You've changed your argument about five times allready in this thread everytime someone refutes your previous one. Now that you've run out of things that sound halfway plausible (at least to yourself) you've got into pure bleat mode 'I don't like it QQ'. Face it, you want a cheat mode. I suggest you try single player games, they might be more to your level of ability and have an appropriate amount of cheat codes.

I want ursan nerfed, and now I also want shadow form nerfed to hell. Prices are going to crap, we need more than one way to farm and earn a decent profit.

This, or "Wah wah wah I'm bad and want money" to sum up that kid's statements.

nerf both of em

you can still farm stuff, without SF
nerf that spot with enchant removal and stuff

ecto will jump back to 5-6k ish, some "QQ-my-life-is-now-ruined" threads will get locked and that'll be it

Don't change the mindblades skillbar. It will cause more trouble than just destroying a farm-build.

Play the xunlai tournament house each month. Free cash.

I wouldn't like to see it nerfed. I love the low ecto prizes. 4.3k at the merchant yesterday. w00t. Now just make those Zaishen keys rise again, and I'll have Obsi armor on ALL my characters soon mwuhahahaahaa!
Now all we need is something to easily farm shards...

There already is my friend, it's permashadow using the A/Me version against the skeletons.

27 seconds is way too easy for A/Me.

IMO:

Put [Signet of Disenchantment] on Banished Dream Riders. This won't really hurt regular teams, but perma SF sins will have to watch out and cover their Shadow Form or they will die. The run will still be possible, but now you will only be able to aggro 1 or 2 Banished Dream Riders at the most, which should hopefully slow down the run and keep it on par with other UW farming builds.

wrong.... i have always have been able to perma-obsidian flesh!

1. i was using an E/R build to farm ice imps for the last 12months. IDS values are still ~20k... the E/R build has always been able to perma obsidian. i can;t see anywhere that people have tried to shut this build down.

2. I have always been able to perma mistform as well. this is not as easy as the earth form as the energy management is not as good

3. glyp-h of swiftness has been able to do it perma mist form and perma obsidian since it came about

Please understand that perma-shadowform is not the be all and end all of super imba builds. it requires a little bit a energy management skills and just like 55 monk, requires thought, timing and concentration... do not take that last sentance out of context... for a beginner who has never farmed before, it can be at first difficult to watch skill recharges, and also watch skills. i thought 55 was supposed to be easy to do.. until i first did 55monk and found that it does require some skill. same with the perma-shadow. you trade off certain power and damage and you gain protection at the loss of being an effictive fighter.

put simply. if you want to perma shadow you must obey these laws;

(a) you must be either A/E or A/Me or Me/A (or E/A with Grail of Might)
(b) you must have at least 13 in Shadow Arts.
(c) you must have at least 25 energy at the time when you want to cast chain. GoS + DP + SF = 25e
(d) you are now restricted by energy and trade off all other attributes. ie. you can now only take one other attribute unless you max out in superior runes and run at 330hp or 105hp

ie. 13 Shadow + ??? - if you want daggers, then you trade off only 12 in daggers and no Crit strikes for energy management. etc etc

(e) Your capacity for damage per second is lowered and this makes you a lesser *assassin*. you might as well be a bonded warrior.
(f) You lose 3 slots just to keep yourself alive which doesn;t even include a self heal... Assassins and Eles and Mesmers have rotten self heals

Really, my conclusion is that perma shadow really isn;t all that good. People who want a nerf for it don;t seem to have any other argument other than it ruins the economy. c'mon mate! get real~! Money traders, dupers and bots ruin the economy. not little kids playing assassins.

Finally. It really isn;t that *easy* for noobs to make an assassin and then equip themselves to do the UW. really, it;s only people who are good enuff to hero and hench their way thru to EoTN and then cap SF and get themselves to TOA. If some *noob* supposedly just buys all the tomes and buys all the runes and weapons for the build, good on them... obviously they have that spare 20-30k just sitting there that ANet hands out to noobs when they start playing in pre-searing..

Get a life. it;s a game. enjoy it. wealth is an illusion. money in game and in real life doesn;t exist. when you die, you can;t take it with you. LOL

One thing is bound to happen soon, loss of favor which means people will need to earn it again, we've only got like 2k minutes left or so.

in any case it could disrupt the hordes of A/E for a brief period of time.

I vote to change Chaos Plains make it harder to solo, as others have already mentioned.

Perma-SF adds an interesting PvE gameplay option that I don't mind staying

Evidently not. Please don't try and disprove what's been going on since the beginning of GW:EN, and was actually possible before GW:EN.

Just because you came to the game in 05 doesn't mean you can be good or informed about the game. I know people who've played this game since 05 and think Illusionary Weaponry is better than Warrior DPS. Don't go buzzin' about it.

The reason why Shadow Form needs to be nerfed is the fact that there's nothing else that's comparable in steady income. Simply put, if you're not doing it you're easily missing out on massive amounts of money that could be made.

That's the real problem, its similar to the original 55 monk issue.

read my post. money is an illusion. it doesn;t exist. monsters drop gold on the ground... it;s not like the federal reserve who have to issue bonds in order to print more of it. it;s endless.

go farm something else? ie. learn2HA or GVG and make 100k faction per day. it;s faster wealth generation than farming ectoesz

It doesn't matter if there's an infinate generation of money, what.

Farm something else that generates less income? Why would I do that?

HA's rewards have always been about luck, there's no real average amount made. True GvG rewards come from ATs, which require 7 other people, and only occur 3 times a day, again less money generation.

100k faction per day is only 100k~, which is still less than 50-75 ectos a day.

So everything you mentioned generates less money, so again you'd be missing out on money if you're doing anything but doing SF UW. Nothing else compares.

it;s only money. not even real money. it doesn;t matter. money is nothing.

you know.. it;s a virtual economy. if the price of ecto's goes down, then there is less wealth in the community, so therefore, prices should actually go down. ie. someone selling kuunavang for 100K + 50e will now have to sell for 100K because no one will have enough money becase ectos will be only 1k. get my drift?

countries do it all the time.. they raise interest rates so people with loans will not spend all their money.. therefore less wealth in the community and hence keep inflation and lower prices.

think about it logically. if price of ectos go down... then price of item X will also go down.

I would know that in an instant and I didn't do my posting here I did it with most of the other beta testers and Alpha testers.I know what happened in beta and what skills were like.Don't start this with me Tyla as I see you are 06 have have the same title as me I wonder how that cam about oh to much posting as I read 6 or 8 posts in a thread like the one Ping your build.

I tried this with my Ele with 16 in Earth and couldn't keep it up using Glyph of Swiftness.I can't view that as possibly FF won't let me.I edit my posts.

No they don't, they stay the same or go up, tonic prices have been going up due to ecto being devalued.

Post counts and registration dates matter. PERIOD

Right?

Amirite?

Amidoinitrite?

Well ya thats the problem, fow is supposed to be the highest "elite armor". Now that gets taken away when ectos are now easily farmable.

Clearly your Oct 05 join date means you're a far more important poster than either of those two, and even myself!

I wholeheartedly support this new 'join dates are srs bsns' notion.

Chaos Plains has been around since Prophecies. The difficulty level of it is fine, and it should not be changed due to a farm.

Shadow form on the other hand, was an unnecessary buff. It was a powerful farming skill before it was buffed. I also fail to see how it makes PvE gameplay any more interesting. Personally, I don't find being invincible fun at all.

Of course. You're more important than me because you've been around longer. /wrist

Oh, I'm more important than shawn, that makes me slightly happier.

ummm... 20% enchanting mod plz. GoS then do Obsidian flesh. it;s only attainable at 16 earth.

that's cause they are traded in ectos. the real price is the same if not less. trade in keys instead. something being worth more ectos does not mean it is worth more

ANET; If you are reading this. IF YOU NERF THIS BUILD, THEN A LARGE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE WILL MAKE A VERY LARGE PROFIT OVERNIGHT. THE PRICE IN ECTO WILL GO THRU THE ROOF. THIS WILL NOT BE FAIR TO THE REST OF THE COMMUNITY WHO HAVE NOT BEEN EXPLOITING THIS BUILD.

So you're saying don't change the build because not everyone has used it in the month it's been around?

Laugh out loud.

Ecto will most likely go back to 5.5k each, at trader. The demand is going to say the same, while the supply is going to go back to pre-shadow form buff. Ecto may be higher for a few days or so, but that's fine. Also, people making a profit isn't a problem at all.

urrite, autos could be had for 130e 2 weeks ago without much effort and now even though there are more in the game, they sell for 100k + 150e, just check the latest sale in high end.

585k~ two weeks ago vs 640k, totally the same.

i can;t actually see how you came up with your figures for autos. they don;t compute. 130e does not = 585k. like when? let me just guess that they were 100k + 130e and now are 100k + 150e?

anyone can find examples to fit their own arguments for and against. if someone is selling something high-end for more... then they are just being opportunist and not adjusting their prices for real-world ecto prices.

let me check this. 5.5k ecto vs 4k ecto 2weeks later. therefore

(a) 130 ecto @ 2 weeks ago = 715k
(b) 150 ecto @ now = 600k

that seems to be 115k less to me

or were they 5k before the buff?

(a) 130 ecto @ 5k = 650k
(b) 150 ecto @ 4k = 600k

that is still 50k cheaper.

even if you take 130e vs 100K+150e now going by 5.5k ecto price

(a) 130 ecto @ 2 weeks ago = 715k
(b) 100k + 150 ecto @ now = 700k

still cheaper now.

PS. don;t take on an honours degree Applied Scientist with high disctinction in majors for Maths, Physics, and Chemistry.

So according to you if they nerf SF, they make a huge profit, and if they don't the economy will right itself thereby ectos go up and they make a huge profit, if not bigger because they'll have more time to farm ectos and still constantly be able to?

O ok?

Favor will come back. It's not going to be forever, but it's going to come back. Also, hello UW scrolls.

Don't be mad because people are making money, be mad because you didn't take the chance to. Again, people making profit isn't a problem. Remember what happened with zaishen keys? They went from 2k each to 6k each.

oh i am not mad or angry. i just wish people would see a sane point of view that money doesn;t matter. special weapons don;t matter and armour does;t matter. it only matters to those people who buy them.

eg. in my eyes, if i see FOW armour i couldn;t care less. if i see a mini polar bear i think "cool. nice mini". i don;t even care who the owner is. focus is on the bear. i see someone with chaos gloves or rank 12 in HA and i think, that;s nice. but i don;t idolise them.

so, the price ectos or how much money people have in the game or what items they can show off really doesn;t matter to me. it may matter to the people who had to work for them or buy them online with gold sellers or who bought that guild with the gold trim or whatever... but it certainly doesn;t matter to me and i am presuming it doesn;t matter to others as well.

because this game age ranges from 12+ to 70yo, there are many different views on what the game is to many people.

personally when people show off in their flashy porsche or show off their big rich expensive house, i couldn;t care less. sadly, this is something that the late 70's and the 1980's has done to people in this now capitalistic consumer society. it;s just a factor of social conditioning that we have all been brainwashed into thinking that new, flashy things are better than older things. buy this new ipod today, get this new mini, be a status symbol amongst your peers.

that is why the price of ectos and this farming build no longer matter. but that is my opinion and mine alone.

edit; actually i just gave myself a reason why nerfs and buffs do not really matter at all. heck. leave Anet to make the decisions on their own game. they own it, they can do what they like. there is no point arguing on this forum to convince Anet what to do or not to do.... i argue here so that i may help enlighten others to see thru the illusions.

Just reverse the BUFF to SF, the price of ecto's will certainly go up, but will level off soon enough, like before the buff. Also it annoys me when all anyone wants to do is make an SF Sin and farm ecto's over and over, I get that it is insanely easy do to the invincibility of the build, but to me if there is no challenge to farming a spot then why farm it, sure there are other near god like builds out there but atleast they take a little more skill then spamming GoS - DP - SF over and over, while throwing out offensive skills/spells... very dull, plus playing a sin is sooo boring to me that, getting one ready to farm UW is an impossible task for me.

So ANet please, just remove the buff to the skill, or give all other classes a god mode buff, heh???

They were 4.5k two weeks ago.

Ups.

And if you think money doesn't matter why do you justify that shadow form shouldn't be nerfed because people would make money off of the nerf?

What.

Oh, money doesn't matter now?

If money doesn't matter, I guess it doesn't matter that the rest of the community didn't make money. People making profit from the ecto doesn't matter, either.

So, does money matter, or does it not? Make up your mind, please.