Here are my best two solutions:
1) Introduce new items that uses ectos or shards.
2) Let favor die out. I mean, ANet doesn't want something like 20k minutes of favor which can last for several weeks. When that happens, ectos will bring back up again.
That way, no one will QQ on going to nerf Shadow Form or the Underworld.
Nerf Chaos Plains or Shadowform?
Dark Paladin X
masta_yoda
i sense this thursaday the nerfbat for sf is coming
4thVariety
It's weird, for the Elite PvP players there is Izzy handling the skillbalance, but for PvE there really is no such person. Arenanet approaches PvE balance the same way it approaches PvP balance, i.e. by trying to manipulate the skills on the playerside to fix all issues with builds gone bad.
But it would be far more effective to have a person editing the monster-skillbar in the Elite areas from time to time. None of the PvE builds are a problem in PvP for the simple reason that players always adapt. They would even adapt to permasins and Ursans. The issue PvE has, is one of non-adaptability. It is a mirage to believe into the fact that one day Izzy will turn the magical balancing knobs and get it right for all times. There are just too many skills and synergies for that. PvP players call that the meta game. PvE also has a meta game. A game of being outmatched when it comes to levels. This is the final resort, since monsters can neither adapt in build, nor strategy. Their skillbars and AI are fixed, their adaptability reduced to zero. Changing that will do far more for the game than tinkering around with endless combos and consumables. Even as little as throwing a few Mist Veattirs into the UW spawning mix would totally mess with players.
But it would be far more effective to have a person editing the monster-skillbar in the Elite areas from time to time. None of the PvE builds are a problem in PvP for the simple reason that players always adapt. They would even adapt to permasins and Ursans. The issue PvE has, is one of non-adaptability. It is a mirage to believe into the fact that one day Izzy will turn the magical balancing knobs and get it right for all times. There are just too many skills and synergies for that. PvP players call that the meta game. PvE also has a meta game. A game of being outmatched when it comes to levels. This is the final resort, since monsters can neither adapt in build, nor strategy. Their skillbars and AI are fixed, their adaptability reduced to zero. Changing that will do far more for the game than tinkering around with endless combos and consumables. Even as little as throwing a few Mist Veattirs into the UW spawning mix would totally mess with players.
Pleikki
Everyone say its solution let Favor run out. c'mon.. People got loads of scrolls so it wont help..
masta_yoda
scrolls can run out i belive ^^
Fay Vert
Is there anyone that says don't nerf shadow form who doesn't use it?
I get the feeling that there is a lot of self interest in posts here.
I persnally am in favour of a nerf to shadow form, against a nerf to chaos plains and I currently neither farm chaos plains or use shadow form for farm (I have used it for running about a year ago.)
I get the feeling that there is a lot of self interest in posts here.
I persnally am in favour of a nerf to shadow form, against a nerf to chaos plains and I currently neither farm chaos plains or use shadow form for farm (I have used it for running about a year ago.)
Tyla
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Originally Posted by 4thVariety
It's weird, for the Elite PvP players there is Izzy handling the skillbalance, but for PvE there really is no such person.
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Jongo River
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Originally Posted by Fay Vert
Is there anyone that says don't nerf shadow form who doesn't use it?
I get the feeling that there is a lot of self interest in posts here. I persnally am in favour of a nerf to shadow form, against a nerf to chaos plains and I currently neither farm chaos plains or use shadow form for farm (I have used it for running about a year ago.) |
Concern at ectos losing value - self-interest.
Concern at FoW armour becoming less "prestige" - self-interest.
No stated issue, but want something nerfed anyway - well... that's just ignorance, isn't it?
Great Scoot
Plain and simple
Anet is rewarding, NOT skill, but who has the most endurance to sit in front of a LCD screen and keep a bar of skills up.
Someone coming out of UW with 10 ectos on a run is absurd, I would be fine with this if when a group did a Clear, they were all awarded something greater than if a A/E did a solo run.
but then the prices of ectos would dump way more then they are now.
moral of the story, We Dont need ridiculous n00b builds to farm our game, get rid of SF, and ursan for that fact of the matter.
Anyone that has played GW before factions came out, knows what I am talking about.
the end of ranting
Anet is rewarding, NOT skill, but who has the most endurance to sit in front of a LCD screen and keep a bar of skills up.
Someone coming out of UW with 10 ectos on a run is absurd, I would be fine with this if when a group did a Clear, they were all awarded something greater than if a A/E did a solo run.
but then the prices of ectos would dump way more then they are now.
moral of the story, We Dont need ridiculous n00b builds to farm our game, get rid of SF, and ursan for that fact of the matter.
Anyone that has played GW before factions came out, knows what I am talking about.
the end of ranting
Pandora's box
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Originally Posted by Fay Vert
Is there anyone that says don't nerf shadow form who doesn't use it?
I get the feeling that there is a lot of self interest in posts here. I persnally am in favour of a nerf to shadow form, against a nerf to chaos plains and I currently neither farm chaos plains or use shadow form for farm (I have used it for running about a year ago.) |
whitedragon
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Originally Posted by Pandora's box
Let's reverse that: Is there anyone frequently using Shadow Form who wants to nerf it? Why spoil their pleasure? As to your statement: I dont use SF, and I see no reason to nerf it. Or any other skill on PvE. Nerfs are thrown away with PvP, its the past. Now its buffing time!
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I use sf and love it, i dont use ursan and hate it, but i dont see the need to nerf it. My epeen is just fine with everyone being able to get fow armor and my stack of ectos not worth as much
and as for pve balance (lol) how does whats on my bar afect your gameplay.
DarkGanni
I wouldn't nerf either of them, I wish ppl would quit whining about their e-peen ecto stacks. Oh please your ecto stack went down by a few plat you're gonna bleed and die.
If ectos are no longer stable to use as currency, then use something else.
If ectos are no longer stable to use as currency, then use something else.
Pleikki
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Originally Posted by masta_yoda
scrolls can run out i belive ^^
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kostolomac
Allow only 3 entries to UW and FoW per day. It will be a thorn in the eye for farmers and stop the fast clear teams.
However I wish the ecto becomes what it should have been. An rare material for crafting , not a measure for richness and the size of an e-peen.
However I wish the ecto becomes what it should have been. An rare material for crafting , not a measure for richness and the size of an e-peen.
Chthon
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Originally Posted by Fay Vert
Is there anyone that says don't nerf shadow form who doesn't use it?
I get the feeling that there is a lot of self interest in posts here. |
Bug John
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Originally Posted by Great Scoot
Anet is rewarding, NOT skill, but who has the most endurance to sit in front of a LCD screen and keep a bar of skills up.
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if Anet rewarded skill, ectos would be given as quest reward in uw
lyra_song
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Originally Posted by Jongo River
It's always self-interest. The arguments of all sides are based on what people believe is best for themselves (OK, some will grandly claim to know what's best for the game, but those types are just being clever enough to conceal their real motives):
Concern at ectos losing value - self-interest. Concern at FoW armour becoming less "prestige" - self-interest. No stated issue, but want something nerfed anyway - well... that's just ignorance, isn't it? |
We have a very very GOOD farming build. This farming build can solo areas of the game where the highest valued items (value given by an NPC) drops ie: ecto.
Now...it goes on to follow, that the MORE people farm, the lower the value of ecto will be.
Now...as the value of ecto decreases, those multitude of people will lose money as they farm.
Eventually you reach a point where ecto is no longer worth farming and the farming UW becomes pointless.
Now without a high commodity item, what's left that will give players a solid valued item? Keys? Lockpicks? These items cannot be reliably farmed.
It devalues the whole economy. Now in a PURELY player driven economy, this wouldn't be so bad.
BUT. NPCs don't give a rat's ass if your ecto is worth a lot less. They still charge the same for their services and armor.
So now, the casual player who gets an ecto now and then no longer gets the same amount of money. The farmer can no longer make money.
Plus players will adjust the value of their wares for this inflation.
Overly powerful builds must be placed under control so that it is usable but not invincible. There must be enough of a Fail/Success ratio so that not everyone can do it.
Devaluation IS bad for the game.
Removing prestige from PRESTIGE items is bad for the game.
This is about player MORALE and player MOTIVATION.
If players are pissed and dont want to play, whats the point? Of course its in our self interest!
I want a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing balanced game.
Targren
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Originally Posted by You Look Grim
I like things the way they are. I enjoy low ecto prices ~_~
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(Re: Passage scrolls)
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Originally Posted by Pleikki
theres trader and yeye they can run out from it but it doesnt take long farm some freaking boss to get couple
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Lyra Song
Devaluation IS bad for the game.
Removing prestige from PRESTIGE items is bad for the game. |
And the argument about prestige is just epeen. It might be bad for the fragile egos of those who think "prestige" items give their lives value, but it is not bad for the game as a whole.
whitedragon
OFF topic but why is it people think that sf and ursan are the reason that ectos are so low? the reason they are low is the new farmers dont understand how the game ecomomy is setup. they got this good build that lets them do areas that they couldnt do much before and get ectos and what not but they then sell them to the trader so prices goes down.
so its not the skills fault, its the people who sell them to the traders that are making the prices go down
so its not the skills fault, its the people who sell them to the traders that are making the prices go down
legacyofkain85
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Originally Posted by Destiny2097
...except that rending touch is a spell so it won't work
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Great Scoot
Its the Moral of it
That Anet has designed a game that favors N00b builds over skill and knowledge.
I am upset over this because I farmed alot of ectos in the past with dual smite and SS/55 when they were at 7k+.
I worked really really hard to get my first set of FOW armor, and perma sins are getting it in a few days of dicking around.
That Anet has designed a game that favors N00b builds over skill and knowledge.
I am upset over this because I farmed alot of ectos in the past with dual smite and SS/55 when they were at 7k+.
I worked really really hard to get my first set of FOW armor, and perma sins are getting it in a few days of dicking around.
upier
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Originally Posted by Great Scoot
Its the Moral of it
That Anet has designed a game that favors N00b builds over skill and knowledge. I am upset over this because I farmed alot of ectos in the past with dual smite and SS/55 when they were at 7k+. I worked really really hard to get my first set of FOW armor, and perma sins are getting it in a few days of dicking around. |
You both exploited a shitty game mechanic and now you are coming here saying that you are more entitled to it?
Once again /point and /laugh.
Dude, get over yourself.
Shakti
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Originally Posted by strcpy
Having now bothered to go do one that is my opinion too. It is often enough that the behemoths block your path to get there and force you to get hit by a trap to die that it is irritating. I've had as many as 8 in a row where there was *no way* to get by them without killing them. It is also *really* easy to let Shadow Form drop when you are having to watch where your aggro bubble is, where Charging Blacknesses are, where traps from the behemoths are, and what skills are recharged and need cast. I've died a number of times if for nothing else than a little bit of lag stops me in traps or the Charging Blackness catch me.
In the end I can't do the run well drunk and there are UW ecto runs I can that are nearly as efficient. As of right now it is different and enjoyable but that will get old too. I think more people than not will find it that way too - boring and only used when I really need money (which is never now) or am just tired of the other things to do. For the new players that decided to farm this like crazy older builds as just as effective and doable so no real change there. easy). |
Second, I'm considering another set of FOW and I really want to farm the crap this time rather than just buying it all. It makes it more of a goal for me personally, feel accomplishment that I did that rather than just I bought that, make any sense?
I have to say, it is rather absurdly easy. Yes, there are some spawns you can't get past. Had a stretch of 6 in a row lol. Being me though, I just ran around killing every mad cow and squid in the accessible areas whenever I couldn't get to the plains. Yes, the run needs to be timed right. Yes there are blacknesses to be avoided and dodged (find myself yelling GET UP STUPID!! often lol)
It is still, by a very very wide margin, the easiest UW method I've ever used. It's absurd how simple it is. I have played both sides of a 55/SS team. Both took a bit of practice at least to get timing of skills etc. The SF? I got through to the plains my 2nd try. (1st had blocking behemoths) 1st time to the plains, 8 ectos. That easy.
There is really quite a wide margin to keep SF up. If you mess up damage chain, no biggie, just wait for recharge, nothing can tough you. I honestly am amazed how easy it is. The only times I've died are totally my fault, phone rang, talking to husband whatever and not paying minimal attention.
While I'm using the build to get the ectos I need, it is imo a joke how easy it is. I'm not in it for cash, could care less about the "great ecto crash" lol but it is way overpowered. Is this a problem? That debate continues. Anet will do something, or nothing depending on what they decide. I kinda think they should based on what I've seen it do, but que sera sera.
R.Shayne
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Originally Posted by Chthon
To turn that around, is there anywho who says "nerf shadow form" who doesn't have a stack of ectos and/or a hideous FoW+chaos gloves+dread mask outfit that their e-peen is strongly invested in?
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ANET has never said ecto was to be used as a currancy, players decided it would be currancy. I have had one use for ecto and that is armor, if you have stacks of ecto to be used as currancy then you took a gamble and lost.
Everything in this game looses value when the new wears off, example:
1. Gold Rin Relics - 7k at release, now 2k.
2. Diesse Chalice - 4k at release, now 1k.
3. Shiro mini - 100k+ at release, now 40k.
4. Superior Vigor - 100k at release, now 18k
5. Gold 15^50% Longsword - 100k at release, now merchant stuff.
As far as I am concern, the Perma-SF [Shadow Form] has helped the market because now there is a demand for shards (more then doubled in price) and people are using the ecto for armor not as currancy. As for FoW armor, cost the same now as it did before Perma-SF [Shadow Form] due to the increase in shard prices.
Nerfing SF [Shadow Form] will only hurt the casually player and help those with stacks of ecto. I was running A/Me long before the buff (for raptor farming) and can easily take that build to the UW to farm ecto so I don't believe it will hurt the hardcore farmer. And don't tell me it takes skill to run A/Me, I have done it so much I am pressing keys without realizing it.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shakti
It is still, by a very very wide margin, the easiest UW method I've ever used.
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lyra_song
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Originally Posted by Targren
One man's "devaluation" is another's "Market Correction."
And the argument about prestige is just epeen. It might be bad for the fragile egos of those who think "prestige" items give their lives value, but it is not bad for the game as a whole. |
Market correction? whats to correct? If anything, the Armbrace market needed correcting. Not ectos.
Ectos have been a steady source of income for players. And now thats in jeopardy.
No, its not bad for the game. The game doesn't care. Like I said. NPCs dont care. They still charge same for whatever services they always charged. Their prices dont adjust to how much money is in the market.
This is bad for the PLAYERS. And players make up this game.
Some players dont like it when how another player behaves affects their
gameplay directly.
Me, I have about....40-45 ectos, i havent checked in a while. I accumulated it over the past year just by playing.
That 40 or so ectos used to be able to buy somethings.
Now, those same ectos are worth less, so i cannot buy those same things.
I usually cash in my ectos and buy keys/scrolls/runes/armor/skills/capture signets/and such.
You know...stuff to actually play the game. No E-peen. I dont have any FOW armor. I don't have shiny glowing whatevers. I dont have a /rank. I just play on occasion.
As such.
Nerf SF.
Tyla
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Originally Posted by Chthon
To turn that around, is there anywho who says "nerf shadow form" who doesn't have a stack of ectos and/or a hideous FoW+chaos gloves+dread mask outfit that their e-peen is strongly invested in?
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Skills that offer complete, or near complete invunerability or stupid powerful but doesn't reward good play things deserve to be hit.
Fay Vert
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Chthon
To turn that around, is there anywho who says "nerf shadow form" who doesn't have a stack of ectos and/or a hideous FoW+chaos gloves+dread mask outfit that their e-peen is strongly invested in?
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Chaos gloves etc are not really e-peen, its just that there is little else to get when you reach a certain level. There isn't really anything else I want from the game now except fun, I certainly don't begrudge anyone else gaining elite armour, though I don't think it should be a trivial accomplishment.
Ate of DK
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Originally Posted by Tyla
Me.
Skills that offer complete, or near complete invunerability or stupid powerful but doesn't reward good play things deserve to be hit. |
DarklingKiller
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fay Vert
Is there anyone that says don't nerf shadow form who doesn't use it?
I get the feeling that there is a lot of self interest in posts here. I persnally am in favour of a nerf to shadow form, against a nerf to chaos plains and I currently neither farm chaos plains or use shadow form for farm (I have used it for running about a year ago.) |
MStarfire
I say nerf neither and let others play the way they want to play.
kratimas
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Great Scoot
Its the Moral of it
That Anet has designed a game that favors N00b builds over skill and knowledge. I am upset over this because I farmed alot of ectos in the past with dual smite and SS/55 when they were at 7k+. I worked really really hard to get my first set of FOW armor, and perma sins are getting it in a few days of dicking around. |
I must be missing something here, Oh wait wait I get it you worked harder because your Noob build isn't as effective at getting ectos as the new Noob build is.
Now I understand why you are so mad.
/points and /laughs
Hailey Anne
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Originally Posted by Dark Paladin X
don't you guys understand, if you nerf SF, then what are going to equip your heroes with, a useless non-max weapon? SF is the only build that has the capacity to farm green weapons in NM/HM (HM particularly).
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People farm Ectos/Greens with other classes too.
Been doing so for years.
But on topic: Neither.
Its not even SF that hurt the ecto prices its the guys selling to the trader that hurt the prices.
People are the ones that need the nerfing not the skill.
Riceboi
Quote:
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Originally Posted by kratimas
Let me get this straight, you worked hard with a Noob build like SS/55 to farm your ectos and now you are pissed because others are using a different Noob build to farm ectos?
I must be missing something here, Oh wait wait I get it you worked harder because your Noob build isn't as effective at getting ectos as the new Noob build is. Now I understand why you are so mad. /points and /laughs |
well now that is over and done with.
MisterT69
instead of nerfing SF...why don't we just drop ectos as currency. WTB eternal blade 100k+200 z-keys? or WTB w/e 100k+XXob shards Or even throw rubies and sapphires into the mix. They are rare materials, rarer than ectos, and if demand rises for them, their prices will skyrocket to beginning of GW ecto prices.
Rexsis Kai
I vote for NERFing SForm, or atleast making it less able to be used permanently.
Lest121
Nerf Nothing this is great...........you guys act like Ectos were meant to be a Trade able commodity, it's Anet's Fault that gamers had to use ectos, there SYSTEM sucked it allowed bots to run a mock and it took them YEARS to finally do something about it, they put restriction on how much loot can be trade at one time, causing gamers to use ectos as a way to pay for items over 100k, and now that ectos are losing there value most of the community is in an uproar, stop blaming SF blame ANet for there short comings.
Richardt
It goes without saying that Shadow Form needs to be hit with the nerf-bat.
While it maybe entitled a buff for farming purposes, they went to far with it. If it's a slight nerf to keep it more viable for other areas ('cause you got to remember, it was still possilbe to permasin before the buff!), then also nerf Chaos Plains. Make the farmers work for their money.
While it maybe entitled a buff for farming purposes, they went to far with it. If it's a slight nerf to keep it more viable for other areas ('cause you got to remember, it was still possilbe to permasin before the buff!), then also nerf Chaos Plains. Make the farmers work for their money.
Dark Paladin X
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Originally Posted by underverse_ninja
Nerf Nothing this is great...........you guys act like Ectos were meant to be a Trade able commodity, it's Anet's Fault that gamers had to use ectos, there SYSTEM sucked it allowed bots to run a mock and it took them YEARS to finally do something about it, they put restriction on how much loot can be trade at one time, causing gamers to use ectos as a way to pay for items over 100k, and now that ectos are losing there value most of the community is in an uproar, stop blaming SF blame ANet for there short comings.
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Ambuu
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Dark Paladin X
Well, I do wish that ANet remove the stupid gold cap.
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But all in all, let's just wait things out. Does it really matter that people are getting too many ectos in a dying economy?
Ectos will buy you... some minipets that people have, "rare" gold items that everyone has, or those everlasting tonics. Mmmmm tonics.
Dark Paladin X
well, it's just an avatar, and obviously not real since there is a one mil gold cap in the xunlai storage.
Anyways, I wrote a small letter to Regina in her talk page at Guild Wars wiki:
Anyways, I wrote a small letter to Regina in her talk page at Guild Wars wiki:
Quote:
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Hey Regina, Just to let you know, the Developer's Update mentions that they are putting an eye on Shadow Form because of the use in farming. This is bit controversial in the Guild Wars community because with the right skills, it can be kept up indefinately and it is used to farm in the Underworld. Should Shadow Form be nerfed, it will not only make Underworld and boss solo farming difficult, but it will incite a massive protest within the farmers and the assassins. So, can you please try to reason with Izzy not to nerf Shadow Form. It will ruin the experience of farming bosses and the Underworld and will destroy the player economy. Thanks for your time, --Dark Paladin X 02:00, 24 June 2008 (UTC) |