The most powerful PvE Builds - why don't some professions have any? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Jade

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

Canada...... Eh!

26 Jun 2008 at 20:07 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sora of the Divine

You're probably not playing them right if you think Mesmers are useless and Monks and Dervs are mediocre.

QFT

It's been pointed out before, the game is about synergy, not about who's better then who. That's why all the armors cap out, that's why we have a level cap and that's also why we only have 8 skill on the skill bar.

This thread most definately fails.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

26 Jun 2008 at 20:12 - 42

^
That third pic is epic...

Abnormai

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Feb 2008

Me/E

26 Jun 2008 at 20:14 - 43

A suitable response to this thread;

Each build (and each skills) effectiveness is determined by the player.

Therefore, your own personal skill towards the game has a huge impact on the build being run.

Example... Ursan is a great over-all "lolz cheat code w00t"

For those who enjoy making builds, and for those who enjoy being unique, and playing the game as their class specifically, you have to remember that each class is designed to have its role.

Each person is at a different level on different classes. Someone can be a great monk, but a horrible warrior.

I don't think it is fair to say, hey, heres the best PvE builds:

Truly, best for whom?

We can all argue that something like, oh, say, sloth hunters shot is a good skill.. or, hey, prot spirit! But, Prot spirit isnt going to do anything if your too late putting it on, dont put it on at all, or dont even know what the skill does.

~Angie

The Arching Healer

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Sep 2006

Super Kaon Action Team [SuKa]

26 Jun 2008 at 20:16 - 44

Quote:

Dervish: None

[wounding strike]

12 charsssssssssssss

Targren

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2007

Primeval Warlords[wuw]

R/

26 Jun 2008 at 20:18 - 45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sab

While you can argue specifics, some classes are more powerful than others because the devs are very bad at balancing.

That's kind of true... I almost choked on my cigarette when I read that the most popular and wanted tank in the game...

was a squishy caster. O_O

Turbobusa

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

By the Luxon Scavenger

The Mentalists [THPK]

N/

26 Jun 2008 at 20:19 - 46

Necros get the cookie for me.
Minions, hexes, discord,soul reaping.
Booya.

Monks are nice smiters tho nothings nearly as powerfull.
mesmers... have nice PvE skills...
Eles spam there damage spells and everything and their mother's dead. Plus they have ether renewal.
Paras are OP in every way
Rits are versatile but nothing TOO powerfull either.
Sins... moebius+DB
Warriors, DS+SY
Rangers, I wouldn't know... maybe armor + Daze + Dshot.
Dervish, mysticism+scythe...

They all have abuses, just to a lower extend for some

Gregslot

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2006

Me/

26 Jun 2008 at 20:19 - 47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

You can use both Cry of Pain and Ether Nightmare on any profession without a downfall as it isn't linked to an attribute. As for Signet of Illusions, you wouldn't be needing that from 8-10 Sunspear rank, and it only adds miniscule damage.

You are forggeting that Signet of Illusions at 16 makes all title track skills go to rank 11, you can get summons at lvl 21. And not every decent players have alliance rank at maximum (making -8 degen deadly).
And seriously, what profession would use a 3 second cast that does degen? and the area in incredible!
You are not seeing the versatility of this skill.
Try it some time.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

26 Jun 2008 at 20:52 - 48

^
I don't have it at maximum either.

Quote:

And seriously, what profession would use a 3 second cast that does degen? and the area in incredible!

This confuses me. First you say "What profession would use it" then say "The area is incredible".

Quote:

Try it some time.

I did, and I'm not impressed. I would easily take a different elite over it, such as Power Block, Assassin's Promise etc...

Quote:

You are not seeing the versatility of this skill.

It just gives you 11 in a grindable attribute. The only way this skill would make an appearance on my bar is if I'm planning on running 3+ attributes which require choice of attribution.

Infectious

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2006

New Zealand FTW

Ex Talionis [Law]

26 Jun 2008 at 21:00 - 49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rakim B

I'm pretty sure there's a monk in every party. Monks>Everything else

Also, this thread is a joke

Really? I can't remember the last time I had a monk in any of my parties?
N/Rt = ftw

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hania

You ever tried the Vengeful Spirit Bonder? 330 Ritualist, VwK/smiting skills. Can farm many places including UW HM. And what about Ritual Lord? Kinda strong. And Mesmers rock, can do anything (maybe except healing

).

Point is, why farm anywhere else when you can smash out the ectos with an A/E, or farm for holiday items outside rata sum with and A/E or E/A, E/Me.
A mesmer will never heal or prot effectivly as a monk. Yes thats right, I said NEVER

Quote:

Originally Posted by EroChrono

Who cares some professions might not have optimal über PvE builds?
I *nearly* always PvE with H/H, and frankly I don't need to run the most optimal build in order to succeed. Yes, maybe it takes a bit longer, and maybe you do screw up occassionaly. But you set your heroes up with some good builds, and pick whatever is fun to play yourself.
Perhaps my mesmer isn't to most contributing member of the team, but makes the game fun to play.

And thats the thread right there IMO. Noone really cares what IMBA builds are out there to be abused. Either do it yourself, or don't.
Now remember kids, the most IMBA skill out there is avalible to every profession..... thank the dervs for [ursan] [/sarcasim]

[DE]

Hugs and Kisses

Join Date: Oct 2005

Scars Meadows

26 Jun 2008 at 21:09 - 50

Every Class gets Ursan. I don't see the problem

idicious

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2006

Holland

LoD

P/W

26 Jun 2008 at 21:18 - 51

Rits no overpowered builds made me laugh, try out a Splinter volley build with tripple shot nightmare weap, spirit's strength, I am the strongest and ancestors rage, the dps is probly highest sustaineble in game.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

26 Jun 2008 at 21:22 - 52

Quote:

Originally Posted by EroChrono

Who cares some professions might not have optimal über PvE builds?

Because people don't want to feel like they picked the "wrong class".

Of course, not having "overpowered builds" isn't the only contributed factor to being an outcast. Look at Paragons, I've been denied several pugs because I've apparently been "nerfed to uselessness".

Quote:

Originally Posted by [DE]

Every Class gets Ursan. I don't see the problem

Every class may have Ursan, but only one class can make true use of [skill]Signet of Stamina[/skill].

oracle.delphi

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2008

ontario, canada

Steel Beasts

E/

27 Jun 2008 at 00:56 - 53

EVERY proffesions has weakness and strengths everyone can kick ass in the right situation with teh right player and right combo. It's all about knowing your class and skills and using them at the right time. I have seen mesmers absolutly murder things, ive seen warriors killed in one shot...
if you think some profs are under powered it IS beacuse you haven't taken the time to learn them enough

Lady Lozza

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Oz

Angel Sharks

Me/N

27 Jun 2008 at 01:12 - 54

Ok, we are talking PvE here, where almost any build can succeed if you play it well. And apparently mesmers don't have over-powered builds... I beg to differ. SoI + any spells (especially some of those lovely pve only spells) can create a support build that will roll any area easily. SoI is ridiculously overp-powered. If it weren't for the issue of having only 3 pve only skills on the bar SoI mesmers could easily rival Ursan - with the added advantage of not needed to grind points.

Arcane echo + vanguard assassin support? (both spells)
Cry of pain + any other hex?

And all you have to do is pile your points into two attributes. I've often had people argue that you have to remember to use it, but if it is hotkeyed to the 5th mouse button - for those who have one - mashing it eveynow and then works fine.

cellardweller

Likes naked dance offs

Join Date: Aug 2005

The Older Gamers [TOG]

27 Jun 2008 at 01:21 - 55

The real question isn't "why don't all professions have overpowered builds?" but rarther "why do any professions have overpowered builds?"

The Meth

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

R/

27 Jun 2008 at 01:23 - 56

Quote:

Originally Posted by cellardweller

The real question isn't "why don't all professions have overpowered builds?" but rarther "why do any professions have overpowered builds?"

Took the words straight out of my mouth. Now that its been said, I have the opportunity to make a reply with much more sarcasm, which better fits my character:

PvE has overpowered stuff? Really? Thanks for telling us.

Lady Lozza

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Oz

Angel Sharks

Me/N

27 Jun 2008 at 01:27 - 57

Well if we are going to take that line of thinking, we might well want to define what "overpowered" is/means, so that the discussion results in an objective analysis of profession builds all on equal footing.

Afterall it is hardly appropriate to compare the SF farm with Ursan.

NoXiFy

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2007

★☆٭Ńēŵ~ŶờЯК٭☆★

The Benecia Renovatio [RenO]

Mo/Me

27 Jun 2008 at 01:37 - 58

Hope your kidding.

Warrior: Ursan! Or Hundred Blades or some kind of AoE attack
Ranger: BARRAGE (i hope u joke when u say barrage is underpowered in pve...)
Monk: HB
Elementalist: Nuker! With meteor shower!
Necromancer: MINIONMASTER or SS or SV!
Mesmer: Not that good for Pve... decent for interupts or as a signet mesmer
Assassin: Spiking out high priority targets and powerful elite attacks
Ritualist: healer/support with wanderlust,spirit light weapon, preservation
Dervish: ANY form pretty much
Paragon: "Incoming!" + "Save Yoursleves!" + "Theres Nothing to Fear!" = gg

Savio

Teenager with attitude

Join Date: Jul 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

27 Jun 2008 at 01:49 - 59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Every class may have Ursan, but only one class can make true use of [skill]Signet of Stamina[/skill].

Why would I want to bring an ursan warrior if he's not going to attack?

Some professions don't have the most powerful PvE builds because not every profession can be the most powerful. Contrary to what some posters have said, not everyone can be the best, Ursan excepted.

bj91x

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2005

27 Jun 2008 at 02:18 - 60

All professions have broken builds. While not every class may have a broken build by itself, put a good team build and every class is so broken that you can plow through nearly anything.

fenix

Major-General Awesome

Join Date: Aug 2005

Aussie Trolling Crew HQ - Event Organiser and IRC Tiger

Ex Talionis [Law], Trinity of the Ascended [ToA] ????????????????&#

W/

27 Jun 2008 at 02:25 - 61

I'm gonna start by saying that I am NOT a fan of Barrage. It's a bad skill, and is not needed, as there are better forms of AoE. I especially hate Barrage that is used on classes OTHER THAN RANGER. Either make a Ranger or gtfo.

As for builds, I feel that BHA is probably the best Ranger build for PvE. Paired with Epidemic, and you destroy teams almost instantly. Sure it doesn't seem like you're doing big numbers, but that's not the point. Aoe Daze can mean the difference between winning, and being lolraep'd by mobs.

As for Warrior, the choices are pretty obvious. Dslash, Cripslash, Evisc, etc.

Monk builds are similar. LoD, WoH and you win. HB if you're bad and have Ursan.

For Ele's, you CANNOT go past SF, Savannah or Mind Blast. Those 3 should be a staple in any build, the AoE is impossible to look past. As for Ether Renewal, yeah it's a cool idea, but meh.

Necromancer builds are obvious. Soul Reaping is still ridiculously strong in PvE, so infinite energy allows you to do whatever the hell you want. Sab's 3 necro build is a good example. Even a regular Spiteful necro can be very strong if you bring the right utilities.

Mesmer is a little tricker. There aren't any obvious OMFGDAMAGE builds, but like Ranger, that isn't the point. Esurge and Edenial is strong and fun in certain places, and Migraine has won me many missions and dungeons. Of course, there's Cry of Pain, which is pretty lulz. I've been also using the usual Signet Mesmer PvP build in PvE, with a couple changes, and it's RIDICULOUSLY strong.

Assassin is pretty simple too, Moebius blows things up pretty well. You can really run whatever you like as a sin, most builds are very good. Just make sure you don't battle lion too much, the low AL can be a hassle.

Ritualist is good. Barrage on one makes me sick to my stomach. So really, unless you're retarded, don't run it. Go with (and I have to say this) a more of a bitch role. Sure it's lame, but it makes you win fastttt. Offering of Spirit with Splinter, Ancestors, a couple heals, maybe chuck in Spirit Rift, and you're gonna blow things up super fast. A full heal bar is also good if you have a team that are smart and don't instantly spam OMFG UR NOT MUNK.

Dervish. Come on now, do I really need to write something here? Perma-form. Wounding Strike. There are many choices of how to break PvE with a Dervish.

Paragon. I'm not even going to write something. If you can't win PvE with a Paragon, go play some other game.

Sha Noran

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2005

http://tinyurl.com/2jlusq

Idiot Savants [iQ]

R/

27 Jun 2008 at 02:31 - 62

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

I'm gonna start by saying that I am NOT a fan of Barrage. It's a bad skill, and is not needed, as there are better forms of AoE. I especially hate Barrage that is used on classes OTHER THAN RANGER. Either make a Ranger or gtfo.

As for builds, I feel that BHA is probably the best Ranger build for PvE. Paired with Epidemic, and you destroy teams almost instantly. Sure it doesn't seem like you're doing big numbers, but that's not the point. Aoe Daze can mean the difference between winning, and being lolraep'd by mobs.

As for Warrior, the choices are pretty obvious. Dslash, Cripslash, Evisc, etc.

Monk builds are similar. LoD, WoH and you win. HB if you're bad and have Ursan.

For Ele's, you CANNOT go past SF, Savannah or Mind Blast. Those 3 should be a staple in any build, the AoE is impossible to look past. As for Ether Renewal, yeah it's a cool idea, but meh.

Necromancer builds are obvious. Soul Reaping is still ridiculously strong in PvE, so infinite energy allows you to do whatever the hell you want. Sab's 3 necro build is a good example. Even a regular Spiteful necro can be very strong if you bring the right utilities.

Mesmer is a little tricker. There aren't any obvious OMFGDAMAGE builds, but like Ranger, that isn't the point. Esurge and Edenial is strong and fun in certain places, and Migraine has won me many missions and dungeons. Of course, there's Cry of Pain, which is pretty lulz. I've been also using the usual Signet Mesmer PvP build in PvE, with a couple changes, and it's RIDICULOUSLY strong.

Assassin is pretty simple too, Moebius blows things up pretty well. You can really run whatever you like as a sin, most builds are very good. Just make sure you don't battle lion too much, the low AL can be a hassle.

Ritualist is good. Barrage on one makes me sick to my stomach. So really, unless you're retarded, don't run it. Go with (and I have to say this) a more of a bitch role. Sure it's lame, but it makes you win fastttt. Offering of Spirit with Splinter, Ancestors, a couple heals, maybe chuck in Spirit Rift, and you're gonna blow things up super fast. A full heal bar is also good if you have a team that are smart and don't instantly spam OMFG UR NOT MUNK.

Dervish. Come on now, do I really need to write something here? Perma-form. Wounding Strike. There are many choices of how to break PvE with a Dervish.

Paragon. I'm not even going to write something. If you can't win PvE with a Paragon, go play some other game.

This is a quality post which perfectly illustrates the stagnation in PvE builds that most players are sick of rather than happy about.

Lady Lozza

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Oz

Angel Sharks

Me/N

27 Jun 2008 at 02:33 - 63

Oh no on Rit I'd run with caretaker's, spirit rift, that skill that does the extra damage for holding things (yeah I can't remember it). Nice spike damage with energy recharge.

fenix

Major-General Awesome

Join Date: Aug 2005

Aussie Trolling Crew HQ - Event Organiser and IRC Tiger

Ex Talionis [Law], Trinity of the Ascended [ToA] ????????????????&#

W/

27 Jun 2008 at 02:37 - 64

I was going to add Caretakers to the list but forgot about it. It's also a very good skill if you're holding Kaolai all the time.

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

27 Jun 2008 at 02:51 - 65

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregslot

You are forggeting that Signet of Illusions at 16 makes all title track skills go to rank 11, you can get summons at lvl 21. And not every decent players have alliance rank at maximum (making -8 degen deadly).

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

If you're using your elite slot just to make other skills on your bar 1 rank higher, then that should tell you something about your overall effectiveness.

There are some elites that actually do useful stuff. I bet you whatever you like that say... a N/Me with Mesmer PvE skills and Spiteful as the elite will be more useful than a Mesmer with the same skills and 1 more rank on each title track from SoI.

It will also have limitless energy.

Sure, SoI compensates for those who don't grind (that's a good thing, grinding for effectiveness shouldn't be in GW), but if you're comparing skills you can't compare at a lower-than-max level. It'll be like all those threads about the changes to empathy making it bad in Pre-Sear.

Clarissa F

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2007

Fighters of the Shiverpeaks

Me/Mo

27 Jun 2008 at 03:35 - 66

Mesmers and Rangers can be just as good as any other profession...if you play intelligent. Yeah, they have no ZOMGUPWNFACE build for everything(I'm looking at you, SY), but they are great at having a multitude of builds for every situation, and they don't have to rely on a grind skill to do it.

That being said, PvE is what it is: broken. If imba professions get to you, try PvP. The first time a mesmer makes you cry, you will get why they were so weakened in PvE.

GourangaPizza

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2006

R/W

27 Jun 2008 at 03:35 - 67

^ I was think along the lines of a mesmer using Signet of Corruption + Ether Nightmare + Cry of Pain + Mantra of Recovery.

Master Sword Keeper

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

Dead Isle

Farmers Of Woe [FoW]

W/

27 Jun 2008 at 03:54 - 68

Actually i have a ranger build recently discovered.

Does 100dmg+ every hit
With a bow.

Kills bosses in mere seconds.
Destroys a monster of lvl 28 within several seconds.
Kills any low level monster instantly.

Leave it to the pro's to find ranger builds.

ty.
hf and gl.

Nessar

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2008

West Siiiiiiiiiiiiiide

Gwen Has A Thing For [Pyre]

27 Jun 2008 at 03:56 - 69

My ranger actually kills thing within seconds. In PvE and PvP.

It's not *that* hard to make a spike ranger build

Master Sword Keeper

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Sep 2006

Dead Isle

Farmers Of Woe [FoW]

W/

27 Jun 2008 at 03:58 - 70

i dont recommend it for PvP too many variables.

Lets just say, it makes The Fire Chain island missions easy to do.

Deldrimor weapons anyone?

GloryFox

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

Good ol' USA, where everyone else wants to be

Now Plays World of Warcraft on Whisperwind

27 Jun 2008 at 04:23 - 71

Mesmers have CoP Spike teams. Even before Ursan the DVDF Guild cleared all four area's of Domain of Anguish using all Mesmer teams.

Individually I would agree the Mesmer can't compare to others classes soloing, but in groups they do seem to do well.

Lady Lozza

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Oz

Angel Sharks

Me/N

27 Jun 2008 at 04:45 - 72

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

If you're using your elite slot just to make other skills on your bar 1 rank higher, then that should tell you something about your overall effectiveness.

There are some elites that actually do useful stuff. I bet you whatever you like that say... a N/Me with Mesmer PvE skills and Spiteful as the elite will be more useful than a Mesmer with the same skills and 1 more rank on each title track from SoI.

It will also have limitless energy.

Sure, SoI compensates for those who don't grind (that's a good thing, grinding for effectiveness shouldn't be in GW), but if you're comparing skills you can't compare at a lower-than-max level. It'll be like all those threads about the changes to empathy making it bad in Pre-Sear.

I disagree. When it comes to PvE skills it is completely valid to comment on the rank rise the SoI gives to non-maxed tracks. Why? Not everyone grinds, not everyone CAN grind (ie they don't have the time/inclination to do so). Since not everyone therefore has access to the rank at the highest level, the usefulness of SoI is immeasurable for many players. Remember rank is not like attribute points, where not getting those final 30 are a choice (one or two attribute ranks) is a choice.

A necro however, will only be able to run necro skills to their full efficiency. A mesmer will be able to run ALL spells to their full potential. Depending on what you are seeking to accomplish a necro with SS might be better running mesmer pve skills than a mesmer with SoI (provided they have the title/s maxed) however this debate is more about why some classes have over-powered builds and some do not.

When running a mesmer with 3 pve skills from different title tracks SoI really is over-powered. Hell, take arcane mimicry and an SS hero and you have SS at 16 soul-reaping too.

SoI has made many combo builds possible. Combo builds that are incredibly over-powered in a team play environment - evne if that team is just hh.

Striken7

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2007

The District Nudists

R/

27 Jun 2008 at 04:48 - 73

This thread is what's wrong with pug's; if it's not ridiculously overpowered then it must be bad.

Go vote for more cookie cutters on pvxwiki, I'll be busy racking up the kills using my own *fun* builds and my H/H.

Lady Lozza

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Oz

Angel Sharks

Me/N

27 Jun 2008 at 04:56 - 74

Quote:

Originally Posted by Striken7

This thread is what's wrong with pug's; if it's not ridiculously overpowered then it must be bad.

This is true but only in part. What is wrong with pugs is that if it isn't from pvxwiki then it must be bad. What is on the wiki is only what I would call "phase 1" of many of the builds. Many of the builds have evolved to become more efficient - just look at the HB monk skill bar. Healing seed... hmm. Yeah there are skills that could work better there. Of course you would get kicked from many pugs for trying to mod such bars.

Over-powered is a function of PvE. Period. Most pve players are just about killing things quickly for "phat lewt". Pugs are just incidental to pve. If you want to pug with as little grief as possible you conform. Or you do what most players have done and don't pug.

Savio

Teenager with attitude

Join Date: Jul 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

27 Jun 2008 at 04:58 - 75

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

Since not everyone therefore has access to the rank at the highest level, the usefulness of SoI is immeasurable for many players.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Striken7

Go vote for more cookie cutters on pvxwiki, I'll be busy racking up the kills using my own *fun* builds and my H/H.

Efficiency =/= usefulness =/= fun. Last I checked this thread was about powerful builds, which falls into the realm of efficiency.

Lady Lozza

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Oz

Angel Sharks

Me/N

27 Jun 2008 at 05:15 - 76

I beg to disagree, Savio. The thread is indeed about powerful, or over-powered, builds. But over-powered builds are not necessarily efficient. Just as you pointed out that useful is not necessarily efficient, nor necessarily over-powered.

Shayne Hawke

Departed from Tyria

Join Date: May 2007

Clan Dethryche [dth]

R/

27 Jun 2008 at 05:26 - 77

Seems like it's okay to say that imba classes can abuse their secondaries to have greatness, but those secondaries have no chance at being an OP class. Let's start by removing /E from perma-SFs and /W from Imbagons and see how far that gets you.

Assuming you get my point, Monks, Ritualists, and Mesmers are not useless. Go find an Imbagon running Hexbreaker Aria, and when you don't, go find another hex removal from your five imba classes.

Past that, Orders Dervishes and Splinter Barragers have been conjured up in various builds. [[Broad Head Arrow] and [[Wounding Strike] are two extreme elites I can think of off the top of my head that are already OP in their own ways.

Every class has a niche to fill better than any other class can. You've failed to see some of those niches apparently.

btw, thanks to UB, no class is underpowered. Just get R10 Norn and gogogo.

Cathode_Reborn

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2006

27 Jun 2008 at 05:43 - 78

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

Mesmers have CoP Spike teams. Even before Ursan the DVDF Guild cleared all four area's of Domain of Anguish using all Mesmer teams.

Assuming I wanted to get somethin done really fast using a CoP team, there would probably only be 1 primary mes. The rest could just be x/Me's...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Striken7

This thread is what's wrong with pug's; if it's not ridiculously overpowered then it must be bad.

Last time I checked, pug's were still using outdated bad builds. Assuming you join a strict pug, they'll have a team that falls apart just because the stupid tank that they were so reliant on died.....of course if they're not running somethin like that, it's Ursan.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

If it weren't for the issue of having only 3 pve only skills on the bar SoI mesmers could easily rival Ursan - with the added advantage of not needed to grind points.

Ursan is the Sway of GW - it's powerful and easy to use, but good players with real builds can easily outdo it. Builds that can rival and outdo Ursan is old news.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Master Ketsu

If monsters were given more intuitive bars, like players bring on their mesmers to PVP, the problem would be much less. If monsters actually had decent skill bars and walked in more balanced packs it would be much more worth it to bring a "disruptor" type.

I would really love that, it'd make PvE require abit more skill and less mindless nuking. The prob is it wouldn't be as casual anymore if it became too hard. Unfortunetly, the "hard" we have now isn't balanced mobs with viable 8skillbars....instead, it's stuff that can do upto 300+dmg along with a perma 33% speed/cast bonus.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mazza558

For example, here's an arguable list of the imba builds for each profession.

Necromancer: Sabway/3 Necroway (only applies in teams)

It's a pretty good setup, but from my exerperience, only bad players consider it overpowered.

[skill]Assassin's Promise[/skill][skill]Technobabble[/skill][skill]Enfeebling Blood[/skill]

....Pretty much a counter to everything - that's a nec's golden combination in PvE

Alota people say there everything is "overpowered" in PvE. That depends on what your definition of "overpowered in PvE" is. Deciding that somethin is overpowered just because it can get through pretty much all of PvE is stupid, cause it brings you to why people deem everything as overpowered. Whether somethin is overpowered or not in PvE should be based on how how better it is compared to other player builds and classes. One example is a typical "SY" paragon - it makes pretty much just about every other para build inferior, along with most defensive skills from other classes. That right there is overpowered.

Savio

Teenager with attitude

Join Date: Jul 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

27 Jun 2008 at 05:48 - 79

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Lozza

But over-powered builds are not necessarily efficient.

Efficiency and overpoweredness go hand in hand; an overpowered build is excessively efficient. Look at ursan; you only have to hammer half a skillbar to be as effective as a decent warrior. SF - you're getting ectos more efficiently than other builds. Imbagon - maintainable party defense on a single character. They accomplish tasks much faster and much more easily than your standard builds.

Lady Lozza

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Oz

Angel Sharks

Me/N

27 Jun 2008 at 05:54 - 80

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn

Ursan is the Sway of GW - it's powerful and easy to use, but good players with real builds can easily outdo it. Builds that can rival and outdo Ursan is old news.

I disagree with this to some extent. Let's forget about the average player and just take good players and good teams. You can be a good ursan team, holding aggros, chaining kd, etc. You can also be a good non-ursan team. Last I check, and I must admit it was a little while so I could be wrong, a good ursan team will clear certain areas faster than a good non-ursan team.

Quote:

Deciding that somethin is overpowered just because it can get through pretty much all of PvE is stupid, cause it brings you to why people deem everything as overpowered. Whether somethin is overpowered or not in PvE should be based on how how better it is compared to other player builds and classes. One example is a typical "SY" paragon - it makes pretty much just about every other para build inferior, along with most defensive skills from other classes. That right there is overpowered.

This I can agree with. The OP has been somewhat inconsistant about his/her list of over-powered builds. It depends on any number of things. You can't list ursan and SF in the same group, their purpose is completely different.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Savio

Efficiency and overpoweredness go hand in hand; an overpowered build is excessively efficient. Look at ursan; you only have to hammer half a skillbar to be as effective as a decent warrior. SF - you're getting ectos more efficiently than other builds. Imbagon - maintainable party defense on a single character. They accomplish tasks much faster and much more easily than your standard builds.

Once again I disagree. Let's leave Ursan and SF to one side because I agree that in many cases these builds are the most efficient in doing what needs to be done.

Let's take a mostly ele team. They can roll FoW pretty fast with searing flames, and some ER HP spammers or HB-GolE-HP, and a BIP necro. This is over-powered, or so most people would say. But is it efficient? Is the BIP necessary? If all they are doing is constantly BIP'ing or BR'ing people are they actually contributing to the team? Let's face it, e-management isn't as hard as it used to be in the days of prophecies. Why waste a team spot when you don't need to? When adding e-management into a build and adding extra damage team mate would make the trip even faster? This (team) build is overpowered, but not efficient.