AN Open Letter to ArenaNet Regarding Ursan Blessing

gah. everyone's always complained about pugging and how it's unreliable and nothing ever gets completed and that most players are dumb.

now ursan lets anyone pug and get things done quickly and efficiently without much trouble and people complain that now you have to pug a certain way.

seriously this game is about pleasing the MAJORITY, not the minority. that's it.

The game was about skill > time. That was the main reason many people chose to play gw instead of one of the many other rpgs's out there. Catering to idiots it a bad idea.

Quickly and efficiently, yet you still have to grind to power the skill up and gain admission into PuGs.

No, this game was about the only grind being cosmetic, skill bars, player skill and smart choices through the usage of skills and tactics. If the game was about pleasing the majority, then the PvE/P split would have happened ages ago, and the minority of today won't be saying what skills need to be changed. Ursan threw all three of them away, some other things player skill and after Factions, grind. If Ursan was truly to help, then it wouldn't be based on a title.

Holy crap on a stick, an intelligent argument for the pro-Ursan side!

Dragonx, I commend you and thank you for your valuable input.

Anybody else out there feel up to the challenge of not being a DLDU-chanting maroon?

Now, to address your points: No, a knee jerk reaction of penalizing the "poor man" isn't fair; I agree with that. However, the ecto farming issue was brought up in my OP merely as an example (specifically Perma SF Sin farming) of ANet doing the right thing in fixing a broken situation. Granted, there were new SF builds within hours of the "nerf", but that shows the ingenuity of good players.

When considering UB, my (personal) gripe is not the value of certain farmable items, nor is it the fact that pugging is next to impossible w/o R10. (Honestly, my main character is a mesmer in PvE... I can't pug anywhere anyway XD) My gripe is that UB goes against everything ANet said they wanted to accomplish with GW: namely anti-grind, skill > time, and build versatility.

Regarding the countless other "Nerf Ursan" threads out there: Yes, I've seen them and yes, I've read them. And quite frankly, they almost all made me cringe. On a good note, this particular thread has been around for a bit, and I'd like to hope that's because it's not like the others. I'm actually fairly happy with the discussion so far. Valid points have been made on both sides, and all of the groupthink responses have been fairly obvious for what they really are.


On another issue that has been brought up: Rank discrimination.

I am not against all forms of discrimination. I don't have very impressive PvP titles. Why? Because I'm not very experienced in PvP. If a team in HA doesn't want to let me in because I don't meet thier rank requirements, that's fine. They have every right to be concerned about my ability in HA. Again, there are many ways to "farm" fame, but I don't use them. Yes' I would love to be involved in a R8+ group, but I'll get there on my own 2 feet, tyvm. UB's inherent rank discrimination is ridiculously biased towards time > skill. I could get into an Ursan pug, not use Ursan, and STILL contribute quite a bit to the success of the team. I've done it before. BUT, the odds of that happening on a regular basis are slim to none, because the average bear can't see past his own paws, let alone see how much a non-ursan could help.


oh, and spyke. If you want to contribute something intelligent and meaningful to the discussion, please feel free. Otherwise, go back to your "R10 Ursan lfg". kthxbai.

Hm. The only thing I don't like about Ursan Blessing is the fact that you MUST grind to get it; I don't have the time to go out and farm for Norn points to boost the skill. Besides, I myself am a Mesmer; I'd rather use something that could help the group (like Fast Cast Heal if I really wanted to; I don't, but still), or Energy Denial or Interrupts or whatever to support the team. Those who refuse to take a good Mesmer ought to fight against a Mesmer, especially when one is equipped with Cry of Frustration...

ANYWHO, skilled players use Ursan Blessing; he's my Guild Leader, and he's been around Guild Wars for some time. He's not a newb, and he doesn't suck. He takes advantage of the build, but it's still not unbeatable. Energy deny an Ursan, you win (especially a Warrior who has little energy in the first place). Still...

At this point, I don't care; I don't use it. The way I am right now, though... I'm too weak (Norn-points wise, anyway) to do anything about it.






Sad that Mesmers don't get picked up sometimes... *holds out thumb as he walks along a highway...* *A car comes by with a bunch of bears and a couple of Monks, who promptly laugh at the Mesmer going by...* *sighs*

I lol'd. A lot.

LOL! You know what the ironic thing is? I can actually imagine a web-comic with that particular scene (I honestly suck at drawing, so I can't do it).

But...

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

Thanks to the "idiots" A-Net and NC-Soft can afford to keep the servers open so the hoarders and no lifers have a "sandbox" to play in.

If they nerf Ursan they are telling the average player that they don't give a shit about them and they might as well stay away from any further games published by A-Net, as GW2, since only a very small minority of the player base counts. That will sit well with the pencil pushers at NC-Soft headquarters.

skill>time been dead for a long time. to be honest guild wars still it the best at the theme. there is no mudflation with gear, Just a few reputation titles that adds some character development into pve, which alot of players wanted. Pvp is not gear dependant, don't see horrible players running around in teir X armor owning everyone because they have 1000 more life and 20 stats higher than everyone else. It all about your skills, builds, and armor and waepon set up. Pvp is skill>time.

What really, really irritates me is that while Ursan Blessing on one single player doesn't seem that fantastically strong, ursanway itself is imbalanced. It's so imbalanced that you can't get a PUG without ursanway - heck, there are people so convinced ursanway is everything that they try to ursanway Snowmen.

Also, am I the only one who sees people wanting certain classes for ursan anyway? Casters in ursan are STILL squishy ursans, y'know, considering they'll still have 20 armor less than warriors or paragons. I've seen people out there who ask for warriors specifically because of the additional armor. And, of course, there's always the rank. Yes, you got r10 through your time and effort. That's fair enough. It doesn't mean that the person who's r6 can't play, which is the mentality I see most often amongst ursan groups. I've had people pitch a fit because "HE'S TOO WEAK HE'LL KILL US ALL" just because the poor sod's not r10.

and a rather offtopic note to the mesmers: I wish I saw more of you guys around. *perpetually with Gwen in her hero lineup as shutdown

You are right... Anet should totally make Ursan available in PvP. Un-Nerfed of course

You mean how the game was starting to slow down money-wise after the release of Factions and beyond?

You mean like how when they implimented Ursan they told the entire playerbase they don't give a shit about the game as a whole?

And where have you got that info from? Any links to financial statements?

Contrary to common beliefs here on Guru, the majority of the player base is very happy with Ursan, but then again they only play the game don't live it.

I believe it was seen in Avarre's Open Letter to Arena Net - Part 2 thread.

So because people like it, it is somehow not broken and going against the game?

I abuse stuff, but I know it should be nerfed. I'll happily abuse Ursan now just to get what I want too, because it's the only choice in PuGs. The only problem with me is the link to grind, and not having a high Norn rank, although participation is a minor problem in terms of Ursan.

If it gets nerfed, the people who actually give a shit about the change will be here, GWOnline or some other community site and explain why they won't like it.

And you know this how?

Still, it might be true. Most who were really really unhappy with Ursan, like me, probably don't play any more.

"OMG I'M MAD OTHER PEOPLE ARE HAVING AN EASIER TIME AND HAVING FUN TOO, I RAGEQUIT!"

And Tyla you basically admitted you're a hypocrite. And, since you dont have fun (or so implied) when youre using Ursan, why are you? Because it gets you moAr stuff?

You have stopped actually having fun with the game and started to actually devote your life to it, while most people that use it use it for fun.

Just because it's one persons way of having fun and you dont have fun while you use it doesn't mean it should be nerfed.

Your opinion isn't the be-all-end-all opinion, just FYI.


Edit: And Numa, if you're not playing anymore why are you still HERE? Leave.

I can literallly mash my keyboard, and moving doesn't take much effort either so I can simply turn my head to the television watching a DVD at the same time. The reason I'd abuse Ursan in the first place? It's there to abuse, as is Imbagon and so on. I'd rather get things the easy way if there is an easy way, because it saves me time and energy and I still understand this needs to be nerfed. Oh, and the first part of that has what to do with the reasons I earlier listed? Oh, nothing.

Oh no, when things get mindlessly easy while abusable at the same time I might as well abuse them, especially since I can do two different things at once. Effort is needed minimally in PvE now, especially with all this abusable shit.

Are you RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing ignorant? For the final time, read the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing thread and come up with an argument against them reasons that is actually half viable before evading them and saying "U DUN HAV FUN WITH IT MEEN IT NEED NERF?!!!?!!".


I believe Avarre and alot of other people have quit but still post. They still have the right to post, and you don't have the right to tell them otherwise.

Tyla said why: Because you can't PuG without Ursan. And, y'know, it's not like Every Single Guildie will be online and available to play with you everytime you want to.

That's a pretty big assumption, don't you think? Just because someone doesn't enjoy Ursan Blessing doesn't mean they can't enjoy the game, they just don't enjoy Ursanway. Which, y'know, just happens to be the current gamebreaking meta which every single PUG out there demands that you use.

You mean the same right people have to use Ursan and like it, and you don't have the right to tell them that it is wrong?

If yes, then at least we can agree on something.
If no, then they don't have any say about the game anymore.

And it will be very interesting to see on Thursday how hard they nerfed Ursan, if they nerfed it to hard they most likely killed GW2 before they even got it to beta, and if they went to light on it then they pissed off the hardcore players. I think NC-Soft needs to step in and have a say regarding whats more important a few hardcore players or the majority of players.

Oh, people can like Ursan...

But in balance issues and with reasons riding against it, liking something has absolutely no bearing on why it should or shouldn't be balanced.

Because GW has been soooo balanced since Factions came out? and now all of a sudden it have to be fixed? because a few think their fortunes and titles are being diminished by this "uber skill" that actually takes a full team to be effective, where as many other skills make it possible for a single person and hero to "run" dungons in HM that was meant for 8 player teams, talk about something that needs nerfing. That in my opinion is overpowerd and needs nerfing big time.

It's offical know. Ursan will be nerfed. If you dont believe me, ask developers ingame.

Yeah, it will be. I'm going to see some really big QQ fireworks in GW - it's horribly tempting to go sit in Umbral just to see how outraged people get.

it should be nerfed because it turns HM into EZ Mode. it's imbalanced. it doesn't fit into the original framework of the game. skill is better than time, except where ursan is involved. a noob who got the game a month ago and can't leave any outpost without UB can be just as effective, if not moreso, as someone with 3+ years of experience, and can run any skill bar effeciently, due to this one skill.

sure it allows all classes to fit into a group but who is out there spamming "looking for 60 AL R9+ Ursan"? no one. if you make a group and have a choice between 80 AL warrior and 60 AL mesmer, the mes will still be excluded. and don't tell me that no one is spamming LF 80AL ursan, because they are.

Me also, speacly noobs who wont be able to do fow with their "real" characters

Ursan is the most overpowered thing in this game, and wasn't introduced until GW:EN.

I'm not saying there has been perfect balance, because there never will be. The thing is, as Guild Wars progressed through time...

Guild Wars Factions brought shadowsepping and instagibs to the game.
Nightfall brought out extremely powerful skills and 2 broken classes.
GW:EN brought Ursan and other imbalanced skills that are beyond what we had.

I hope you don't mind that I use this as a quote when I write to NC-Soft? (Will use anyway)
It so perfectly illustrates the situation in GW today (and I mean it in a negative way).

I've an idea (I have been thinking about this for a week now). I posted it on my Talk page on the official wiki (which bears the same name as my Guru account):

I've been thinking on this. Ursan Blessing is a decent-enough skill, but I've seen complaints that it's been abused in pick up groups and newer players just getting into the game (which means that they at least made it far enough to get to Level 10 or more, get to Eye of the North, gain the Norn as allies, complete the quest required to gain the skill, and get to at least Rank 8 to use it effectively). Well, I agree that newer players should be able to use it, but in the pick up groups, it's kind of mean of other players to discriminate other useful professions (meaning only those who has Norn Rank 8 or above can be allowed in the group). Although I haven't yet found a way to do so, my suggestion is quite simple: have Ursan Blessing be used by only one player in the entire party. This will solve the headaches of those wanting to join pick up groups who find it annoying to find "LFG 1 R10 Ursan", which, admittedly, is very annoying indeed. Instead, promote balance in the group, and say "LFG 1 Interrupt Mesmer" or "LFG 1 Energy denial Mesmer" (okay, so I'm partial to Mesmers).

The way this can be implemented is an hierarchical system that would allow the user on the top-most of the list get priority for the skill "Ursan Blessing". For example, you have this group (I'm using my own characters' names here):

Me/Mo 20 Dk Jsw
Mo/Me 20 Jup The Healer
W/Mo 20 Jupiter S Warrior
...

Let's say Dk Jsw forms a group, but has Ursan Blessing equipped. Let's also say that Jupiter S Warrior, who has Ursan Blessing as well, joins the group. Jupiter S Warrior's Ursan Blessing would be taken off the Skill Bar, giving the sole slot of Ursan Blessing to Dk Jsw.

Well, let's also say, using the above party group example, that Dk Jsw takes off Ursan Blessing. This allows Jupiter S Warrior to equip Ursan Blessing. But, what if Jup The Healer (for some god-awful reason) equips Ursan Blessing while Jupiter S Warrior have it equipped? Well, if Jup The Healer equips it, well nothing would happen because there can only be one Ursan Blessing on all the skill bars in any party (well, nothing but a message stating that the skill is already in use).

Let's say Spirit Deathknight (D/Mo 20) wants to join, and she's equipped with Ursan Blessing. Well, she would be put on the bottom of the list, and Ursan Blessing would be removed from her skill bar.

This way, you got yourself a decent skill without compromising teamwork and balance. There could be ways of abusing it as well, and there could still be complaints about it, but that's going to happen no matter what happens.

The main thing with ursan is that it isn't on its own a very imbalanced skill, one ursan in the team isn't all that great. The problem with ursan is that it is unblockable, unremovable, and synergizes with itself, so that with five ursans in the team (or three with quickening zephyr) you get near 100% damage mitigation because the enemy is perma-knockdowned. With only one ursan in the team the skill would rarely see any use at all.

Another problem with ursan is that it's purpose-made for bad players. It's a skill specifically created to let people who are unable to create or copy a working build play the role of 'mad rusher wammo on steroids' in the elite areas. It penalizes skillful play, like creating builds, managing aggro, and pulling, and rewards blind rushing. There is no thinking involved when playing ursan, as the ursan skills have no cost and do not form combos you simply target nearest and use all skills on recharge.

And it is based on grind. You will not get to r10 norn without hours of repetitive grinding.

Basically Ursan is the exact opposite of everything Guild Wars once claimed to be: grind-less and skill-based.

That's why people hate it. Personally I find it offensive that ANet thought PvE players at all wanted a skill like that.

On the other hand, people love it because it lets them farm hardmode elite areas quickly and easily by simply mashing buttons, and without caring about build, managing aggro, or pulling, proving that ANet was right.

This post needs to be given to a developer of ANet. Let them think a bit about these words.

I said it before and I'll say it again, Anet won't nerf Ursan as long as it encourages PUGs (which it does). Their near-fanatical interest in doing so (as seen most obviously by their stubborn refusal to remove the hero cap) seems to trump all else...

It's officially been nurfed

their "stubborn refusal to remove the hero cap" is to encourage more player to player interaction. that's what this game is supposed to be about in the first place.

Is it nerfed enough tho?

Well, I think it's up there now with Mending power-wise, needs moar nurf.

Read the back on the prophecies box and a little thing about Henchmen and something about a single player game too.

I would like to thank everyone for thier contributions to the discussion, and thanks to ANet for listening to BOTH sides of the debate.

After today's update, I think it is clear that ANet took us seriously and made the right move by changing not only UB, but lots of over-powered PvE only skills. And I think the updates to siad skills are (for the most part) very well thought out, and don't really nerf anything into the ground. I haven't had a chance to log-in and test the changes yet, but on paper they look good. I might actually start using Ursan now as it looks like there is quite a bit of thinking that goes along with its use in updated form.

Also, fair warning, everyone who agreed with the UB update, get ready to tell the people who told us to quit QQing to enjoy the taste of thier own medicine... No flaming though, please. Let them have thier moment just as much as we had ours.

Can we have an open letter to regarding consumbles now?

lol I would write one, but I haven't used them enough to make a valid argument. Maybe I should go test those after testing the new updates...

So it's only a game but an interesting concept reduce the effectivness of a weapon of war to improve the economy of a Country. Sounds right to me and probably not as stupid as it sounds....