Guild Wars 2 PvE is an MMO (PvP = normal Guild Wars)

Thankfully Meat Axe provided us the link to the official info.

With all the horror-stories about people losing faith in GW2, we have to remember ANet is making this game. Sure they have made some dodgy decisions in the past, concerning both PvE and PvP, as well as their skill>time adagio.
But they still were able to launch a highly original gaming-experience, still being played by 500k+ people every day.

Maybe we shouldn't even compare GW1 as we know it with the upcoming GW2. Try to anticipate it without demanding to port features of the original GW over, and just let the Dev's conjure up another great game.

That it stops eventually is a good thing I guess. Of course the better option would have been to head in the opposite direction and allow us to start playing right from the get-go instead of having to level up our characters first.

Yes. Which means that their strategy to keep making money is to keep people playing, a lot. That strategy is exactly same as at Pay2Play games, and requires very similar game structure to support (power-itemization, never ending carrot that actually gives rewards, timesinks...).

meh, we both have different ideas how this will work out and we both ass-ume, pointless argument atm.

So farming critters for 4000 hours is fine for some but needing some 100+ hours to level a character to its maximum attributes is outrageous.

Oh ok.

Gently caress me! The sky is falling!

This is like August 31st 2007 all over again, a bit cOld ain't it?.

except my "assumption" is based on Anets design of leveling in general, uses information from the FAQ, and is based on their design of getting people to play and drop (they have stated they don't expect people to play the game forever, and it's more of a pick up and play thing, but if you have fun, you'll want to buy the next one.).

qft

does this mean I'm finally going to be able to throw the Asura over cliff edges and stuff

Levelling for thousands of hours, typical MMO- baed.
There's a shitload of MMOs which offer levelling for thousands of hours, why would I pick GW2 instead of them?

And why would I pick all of them instead of Diablo3?

Both are stupid and shouldn't exist.

because the leveling system isn't different at all from gw1...?

-_-

people really need to actually read the FAQ and realize they are blowing this out of proportion really.

also you wouldn't pick them instead of D3.

EDIT:
Probably not.

But, you can make one and jump off a cliff and kill yourself

I'd LIKE to believe that there won't be ANY rewards for grinding, but looking at GW's record (Proph > Fc > Nf > Gwen) it is highly unlikely.

Anets design that changed oh-so-dramatically bot in execution and in goals? Curious. my assumption are based on exactly same material, what they really said, plus anets deeds.

I really wonder how does anet exactly fit hundreds leveling hours to their design? How do they fit there tiered gear? Guess what, you don't.

Hell, leaked hints of gw2 features scream of "kill X of Y, bring me X of Z". 10 Krait swords. (gw.dat thread) How awesome.

That would've been my pick too. No levels whatsoever.

However, in this way Anet is pleasing two sort of people: those who want to keep levelling their character (levelnumber increasing) and those who don't care about levelling (increasingly slimmer benefits at higher levels, so you won't need to be level 100+ to qualify for something).

We weren't talking about grinding rewards, we were talking about a leveling system.

GW1 even during Prophecies had rewards for grinding, the rewards were just equal with already existing stuff for PvP balance. Now in GW2 this won't matter, so they can finally let loose and make it imba all they want.

a) there is nothing related to gw2 in the gw.dat at all.
b) those were canned event descriptions (they were never updated beyond that) probably worked on by Lindsey Murdock if anything else and past beta quest descriptions.
c) There are collection quests in GW1 already. It's nothing new. There's a lot more kill quests then anything, but you're lying to yourself if you believe GW1 pushed the bar on quest structure in an online RPG or something. Kill quests. Collection quests. Go to X to find Y then report back to me quests. Yep. All there. Only thing it did differently was the missions in general.

ArenaNet's leveling design has never changed. They have never raised the cap, for the reasons I gave, and have always stuck to it. It's a part of the integral philosophy of GW1's design, and one of the few elements they have always refused to change. It would be safe to assume this design and it's philosophy indeed carries over, especially given what they have said in the FAQ. (your assumption oddly seems to keep missing the fact that you still level off and stop gaining power eventually...just like GW1.)

The message "you can level hundreds of hours" to gain minimal benefits in gear and stats, with an option to boost a companion up to your level... why do they then not simply go without this level system. It is rather meaningless if they implement it like that.

On the other side, if they make it very meaningful, this system would be the mother of grind.


But it does not sound like Guild Wars 1, more like a new take on a fee free grind MMO.

I guess where this is a good thing or not depends on who you are, but a lot of the design of Guild Wars (back when you know, it was completely focused on the PvP aspect of it) were put into play because of PvP.

The rather loud PvE crowd asked for a PvP separation, and in doing so have freed Anet to do stuff they can't really do in GW1 right now. Now they can balance PvP and ignore PvE / give them buffs to push new players along. Now they can add insane amounts of levels to keep PvErs playing (even if they don't do anything) and tons of (optional and not so optional if you want groups..) grind for in-game benefits that make you better than someone else because it will have no impact on PvP (PvP gives you a set of stuff to choose from anyways.).

PvP being closely tied to PvE has been the main reason (if not THE reason) why Guild Wars 1 was never a grindy game. It would make PvP much much worse (see: WoW or any mmorpg ever. lololo POTIONS and items that snare and crap), and when the game came out, that was their focus...PvP. There is no need to worry about "ruining" PvP in GW2, hence they are adding stuff for hardcore PvErs. PvPers don't need a lot to keep playing...we enjoy the game for the balance, the theorycrafting, the teamwork, the deep strategy, fun playing against humans...PvErs eventually will grow bored because you can only do a quest, a mission, an area, so many times before you don't want to do it any more. With UAX PvP areas, PvXers will have less of a struggle (no need to worry about unlockin everything) so that will benefit people who do both (o hai) too.

My take on it.

I hope its nothing like GW1. Why would any of you want the same game set a few hundreds years ahead of the current game?
Go do /age and I bet all of you have over 100 hours easily so I dont see a problem there you are really complaining over nothing.
WoW you can max level relatively fast and FFXI you can get max level within a month or two.
You guys all complain about grind go play Silkroad or Lineage or pretty much any Korean MMO you will know what grind is then.

Skill < > Time imo.

100 hours of levelling gets the forum posters here worried? 90% of you worried about this have spent 1000 hours working on your monk and his/her titles

you need to distinguish "compulsory" time spent (which is about 10 hours in GW, then you are ready to take on any challenge). Then is clear cut line and you stop progressing in character power and instead pursue goals. (titles increased this 10 hours, obviously, on case by case basis)

and "voluntary" grind which gives you just vanity or represent you working on goals. (those thousands hours).

The community is not a single entity.

100h for getting to max level in GW2? Well, if it's by playing a fun game, doing quests and missions, unlocking heroes, beating dungeons and bosses, with a great story with possible parallel stories, and not having to do this X times over and over again, I'm all for it! I'd even do it 5 times for the 5 races with great pleasure, if there are different sides to the game.

A number does not say anything. But I surely hope GW2's numbers will speak for themselves .

Edit: I suspect that a significant number of hours will be spent learning the "emergent complexity" system, and jumping, climbing, diving, etc.

That's retarded... no PvP onlky chars? Now I'm oozy on this whole thing... with like 170 diff combinations of professions... how dumb will pvp be?

R9+ GLF NORN MESMER/WARRIOR TO GO

Me: I'm an asuran mesmer, r10, that good?
Him: No. Only norn. Go level another char KTHX.



lets seee.... 5 races X 10 profs X 9 sec profs (we dont know the profs, just basing off gw1) = 450 combinations... -______________- fun fun?

I can't wait for Guild wars 2. It is going to be pretty cool being able to play a Charr, Sylvari and Norn not to mention the game is going to look so much better. World PVP is going to be interesting I bet. Overall it is going to be a much better game to play. Yeah I am sure there will be issues ofcourse but I am positive once people start getting more details on the game and seeing what Guild Wars 2 will look like people will be more excited about the game.

You really need to read the entire article...srsly.

World PvP is in a persistent world, so there are no real groups per se. People go in, people go out, do stuff to get rewards. Think of it as like a Hall of Heroes with PvE characters that can grow continuously, that will have PvErs pvping in it, for rewards to the PvE game.

You go into a GvG area, and you auto become maxed out while in those areas.

There is no need for PvP only characters....it's a vast improvement to the current system. Your character changes automatically, so you can do both. Develope a PvE side and World PvP with it, and be maxed out while doing Structured PvP at the same time, with one character.

EDIT:
ie if you just want to structure pvp, you load up the game, roll char, warp to Structured PvP area, bam maxed out have everything unlocked. It's basically a PvP only character, except you can do PvE on the side too if you so desire.

"Because of this, the level cap will be raised drastically; according to Jeff Strain, they are even thinking about completely leaving out a level cap. It is certain that you will be leveling your character over hundreds of hours."

Look, that quote doesn't mean there isn't going to be a level cap. I'm 100% sure there will be one. Personally, I see it going up to 60. People just want to have something to complaing about. You wanted something and now that you're finally going to get it you don't want anymore. Look people, these are what betas are for. Wait for the beta, play it, and then you can actually comment on the game.

My guess is th e anti-farming code in GW2 will make it extremely hard to level up past a certain level. The toons could be thousands of hours old and not hit max level. They have stated also when you solo you have many less monsters to kill for experience and loot. Then when you are in a party of eight it scales up but all XP is shared so you still don't get it.

I think a lot of people are jumping to the big conclusion that "high levels = grind". It all depends on how it's implemented and what PvE will provide.

The way this quote is written makes me uncertain that the "hundreds of hours" statement was said by Anet. It seems more like a conclusion that the magazine interviewer came to based on the previous facts about the possibility of a limitless level cap.

Does that make sense to anyone else?

i luv you, plz marry me

at least someone agrees with me and gets it.

it really depends on (like i said before ~.~) leveling speed, when the power cap is hit, etc etc etc.

anet doesn't have a leveling grind philosophy...at all. so I expect good things.

I'll be happy if it has more mainstream mmo elements to it. There has to be something to keep people active. As a person who played continuously I've watched as activity spiked for a month or two after new content and then drop until the next campaign. Apparently many people don't have the motivation to play the same content with many characters. LS did hurt the farming populace as well so that didn't help either. The more extracurricular activities one can do the better is my belief.

As far as the leveling issue... I'm not concerned with it. I'm sure the beef of power will still be reached in a GW similar fashion. After that I'm guessing it won't factor that much and we'll just level as we play naturally. The difference in leveling and GW rep grind is that we gain xp from doing everything and whatever. We won't have to do one thing over and over to get credit like the reps are. Anyway, it sure seems like most players that play a lot tend to farm a bunch for gold or drops at some point. Doing that will gain ya levels.

I'm very optimistic about GW2 and I'm a very pessimistic, glass is EMPTY type person.

Seems they are trying to make the game more like WoW type MMO's... which in my opinion is not a good move at all. I for one, don't really like playing those type of games where they make you spends months and months, maybe even years into leveling one character only to experience one profession with little time to try others. I really hope they don't change gw to the point it is exactly like all other MMO's, it would really suck then. I hope there is a level cap, 20 is perfect, but as everyone else cries they will keep trying to put higher level caps. If there is a level cap, I don't think it should be any more than 40... I really don't see the point in increasing the level cap if you ask me. I mean having a lvl 20 char with maxed attributes is the same as a lvl 40 having maxed attributes, it only takes more or less time to reach max level, meaning it would either give you more or less time to experience other professions. I personally like being able to level a character fairly quick and experience the profession at their fullest. Spending hundreds of hours just to get one character to max level to me is just boring and stupid, and takes away from experiencing the whole game.

I also hope they don't take out the attribute system, I like being able to adjust them how I want... instead of having fixed Strength/Health, or Sword and other weapon mastery/attributes to be fixed so that you only get better with them by using them more to level them up. That would also take alot away from experiencing the game by keeping you playing only one profession and basically one weapon or one type of magic. I hope everything is pretty much the same as GW1, including skills, builds, armors, weapons, mods, inscriptions, merchants, npc's, heros, trading, questing, missions, solo farming, chest running, etc. I would like to see alot of the things we got now to be in GW2, otherwise it would be too much of a different game, and it would lose its unique gameplay along with customers.

I also don't like how they said they were going to take out "auto-targetting", which is also something I would not like to happen in gw2. I think auto-targetting helps alot, especially when there are alot of party members and enemies close together. Other games that don't have auto targetting really sucks, as sometimes you can't even target or lock on to the enemy you want to kill first. Using the mouse to double click and attack the target you are pointing at really blows, especially if there is an item, party member or other enemies in the way. I like being able to hit "C" to target nearest enemy, or just click on the enemy to lock on them, then all you have to do is press SPACE bar to start attacking, which also does the running for you to get in attack range. With all this, all you need to focus on, which is more important, is your skill bar. Needing to use the mouse over and over to attack enemies makes it hard and difficult to use your own skills... it doesn't allow you to use your mouse for hitting skills because you will be too busy double clicking on everything, and only able to hit the first few number keys for using skills. Auto Targetting also helps people with crappy mice, without it some people would have too much diffculty targetting the enemies they want. But yeah, the whole thing about taking out things like "Auto Targetting" was one of the little things I didn't like with their plans for GW2.

I really hope they will keep the current low level cap, or at most 40... it just makes the game that much better to experience as a whole. Auto-Targetting is also something I hope they keep in GW2, which I think they will eventually realize that not having it will take away from the skillful part of the game. So far, I am kind of disappointed about the changes they plan on making and implementing into GW2... they are trying to make it like a game I wouldn't want to play. I think Anet needs to start going with their own instincts on building GW2, instead of listening to all the damn complainers. All these damn complainers are tryin to make Guild Wars too much like WoW or other MMO"s, which is pretty retarded in my opinion. Guild Wars is a popular game, and people love to play it because it is different from other games... The gameplay in GW is just so much better than any other MMO's that I have tried, especially since I wouldn't want to spend most of my life on other games just to get the most of out it. I mean, pumping more money and more time into a game just to get the most fun out of it, in my opinion is a terrible thing for gamers. It forces people to put more time into the game, and takes time away fromplaying other games, or doing other real life things.

DON'T CHANGE GUILD WARS AND MAKE IT EXACTLY LIKE OTHER MMO'S! Please don't do it

As long as there will be no grinding (like they said in the faq)
and the leveling will be like gw is now (fun :P)
Im ok, dont remove the level cap, that can destroy the game, and anyways, they cant make armor till level 894895894045 or something like that. just make a level 60 or 70 cap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoXiFy
That's retarded... no PvP onlky chars? Now I'm oozy on this whole thing... with like 170 diff combinations of professions... how dumb will pvp be?

R9+ GLF NORN MESMER/WARRIOR TO GO

Me: I'm an asuran mesmer, r10, that good?
Him: No. Only norn. Go level another char KTHX.



lets seee.... 5 races X 10 profs X 9 sec profs (we dont know the profs, just basing off gw1) = 450 combinations... -______________- fun fun?

Ever played wow? Races only got a couple buffs, but if ppl need a healer they just look for a monk, and not for a sylvari monk or something like that.

a) i really hate people who use WoW for everything. WoW didn't invent half the shit you complained about, and it isn't anything like WoW except for a few things. wupe dee doo.
b) when did they say they were taking auto targeting out? o-O
c) you know very little about the game, except generic stuff. guild wars 1 was the same way with the info leading up to it. now we know there's an 8 skill skill bar, weapon set swapping for advantages, a strong interrupt system, etc. There's going to be more to it then just generic MMO crafting and generic MMO etc etc etc. idk how you can doubt that.

jesus christ people. stop disliking a game you know absolutely nothing about.

higher level cap, more races. that's ALL we know. that's IT.

HAHAHAHA! The irony is that most of the people complaining are probably grinding to fill up their HoM so they can have pretty things in GW2.

I don't like both, can I dislike it now?

A.) Well the reason for using WoW, is because that is what everyone plays these days and it is the most popular MMO. What other game could people possibly compare GW to? Even though they don't compare at all. But, I didn't say WoW invented anything, not sure where you got that idea... I am just stating that people try to get GW to be more like WoW or other MMO's. Which I hate, cause who would want any game to be like WoW?

It seems that GW2 is obviously going to be an MMO than a MMORPG. I just don't want them to try to satisfy those hardcore WoW or other MMO fans by giving them what they want. It would ruin the game. And with the info we have been giving, it definately seems they are trying to come up with ideas that would change GW in a big way, even just the little stuff.

B.) I remember reading somewheres that they were going to make a new combat system, which stated that they weren't going to have the same old Auto Targetting system. Instead you will have to aim your attacks. Which is somewhat like WoW, and is definately something I wouldn't like much at all.

C.) I know alot about GW, I been playing for 2 and half years now, and only played PvE for the most part of that... If you read alil more about GW2, you might know what im talking about. So it seems you, not me, "know very little about the game, except for the generic stuff". Reason for doubting, is because they are not giving us anything concrete, and the stuff they do say doesn't give enough detail, so no one knows what to expect... I know in the end the game will most likely be great, but who knows? they might try to please too many people, and try to suck in players from other MMO's like WoW. Mounts are cool and all, but who needs them? Everyone will be on a damn mount instead of on the ground.... But yeah, as of now, I have no real idea what the game is going to be like, instead I just hope they keep everything very much the same but with added features, not changed features, but added...

Been playing for two and half years but dont want to play a character for hundreds of hours? right...

And why on earth would you want everything the same? Then wtf is the point of a new game at all?

Your scared of having your precious characters lost because there is a new and better guild wars out.

I for one prefer change and welcome it.

I'm sorry, but how else are we supposed to take "It is certain that you will be leveling your character over hundreds of hours."? If you live in some parallel universe where hundreds of hours isn't grind, good for you. Some of us live here on Earth.

While judging a game that isn't out yet could be a bit premature, we're also judging Anet's past and current direction. There were Factions allegiance ranks to move on with the game and grinding for 40% extra damage and 8 damage reduction in Nightfall. If you've been here for any amount of time, you realize the ire that the words Ursan and Norn draw. All this from a game that started with claims of skill over time spent. It sounds like Anet is continuing to up their grind as they have done with every past release in this series. They can prove me wrong, I'm just not betting on it.

because
a) it's possible that was something the interviewer said (someone brought this up)
b) power stops growing eventually like GW1.
c) you don't know the leveling speed.
d) gw1 is the exact same way and isn't very grindy with its level system now is it.