Just giving fair warning, since some times even if your up against several monsters and your trying to kill quickly. You can easily get your whole group pressured to death, once they start dropping aoe damage and all your heroes drop their pots at the same time. Or atleast lose a few heroes.
That was even with I believe 4 discord healers and it was just hm outside rata sum heading towards oola's lab.
I am thinking that one should just be a discord n/mo with protection spells. Since a lot of harder areas are bound to have some hard hitting bosses such as eles like the disc of chaos or other stuff.
So maybe n/mo with protective spirit, shield of absorption, aegis/guardian and some other stuff along with 3 or so n/rt healers would work better?
Sabway vs. Discord
MercenaryKnight
distilledwill
The beautiful thing about this arguement is that although people may argue one is better than the other they actually work incredibly well in tandem.
Me and my brother are working through prophecies HM with a full necro team which shapes up like this:
[Necrosis][Weaken Armor][Enfeebling Blood][Barbs][Mark Of Pain][Signet Of Lost Souls][Assassin's Promise][Sunspear Rebirth Signet]
[Discord][Animate Bone Minions][Death Nova][Taste Of Death][Infuse Condition][Foul Feast][Remove Hex][Signet Of Lost Souls]
[Discord][Rising Bile][Putrid Bile][Protective Was Kaolai][Mend Body And Soul][Spirit Light][Signet Of Lost Souls][Gaze Of Contempt]
[Weapon Of Remedy][Weapon Of Warding][Mend Body And Soul][Spirit Light][Protective Was Kaolai][Life][Signet Of Lost Souls][Death Pact Signet]
[Awaken the Blood][Mindbender][Glyph Of Lesser energy][Spiteful Spirit][Barbs][Mark Of Pain][Rip Enchantment][Signet Of Lost Souls]
[Jagged Bones][Animate Bone Minions][Death Nova][Taste Of Death][Infuse Condition][Foul Feast][Dwayna's Sorrow][Signet Of Lost Souls]
[Tainted Flesh][Rotting Flesh][Gaze From Beyond][Splinter Weapon][Ancestors' Rage][Bloodsong][Signet Of Lost Souls][Flesh Of My Flesh]
[weapon of remedy][weapon of warding][Ghostmirror Light][Mend Body and Soul][Protective Was Kaolai][Recovery][Signet Of Lost Souls][Death PAct signet]
I know, 2 lots of MoP + Barbs, but we both love the pretty numbers!
Me and my brother are working through prophecies HM with a full necro team which shapes up like this:
[Necrosis][Weaken Armor][Enfeebling Blood][Barbs][Mark Of Pain][Signet Of Lost Souls][Assassin's Promise][Sunspear Rebirth Signet]
[Discord][Animate Bone Minions][Death Nova][Taste Of Death][Infuse Condition][Foul Feast][Remove Hex][Signet Of Lost Souls]
[Discord][Rising Bile][Putrid Bile][Protective Was Kaolai][Mend Body And Soul][Spirit Light][Signet Of Lost Souls][Gaze Of Contempt]
[Weapon Of Remedy][Weapon Of Warding][Mend Body And Soul][Spirit Light][Protective Was Kaolai][Life][Signet Of Lost Souls][Death Pact Signet]
[Awaken the Blood][Mindbender][Glyph Of Lesser energy][Spiteful Spirit][Barbs][Mark Of Pain][Rip Enchantment][Signet Of Lost Souls]
[Jagged Bones][Animate Bone Minions][Death Nova][Taste Of Death][Infuse Condition][Foul Feast][Dwayna's Sorrow][Signet Of Lost Souls]
[Tainted Flesh][Rotting Flesh][Gaze From Beyond][Splinter Weapon][Ancestors' Rage][Bloodsong][Signet Of Lost Souls][Flesh Of My Flesh]
[weapon of remedy][weapon of warding][Ghostmirror Light][Mend Body and Soul][Protective Was Kaolai][Recovery][Signet Of Lost Souls][Death PAct signet]
I know, 2 lots of MoP + Barbs, but we both love the pretty numbers!
DarkSpirit
Quote:
Originally Posted by distilledwill
The beautiful thing about this arguement is that although people may argue one is better than the other they actually work incredibly well in tandem.
Me and my brother are working through prophecies HM with a full necro team which shapes up like this:
.....
I know, 2 lots of MoP + Barbs, but we both love the pretty numbers! I dont think I agree with that. There is no good reason to merge Discordway with Sabway. What advantage does Sabway give to a Discord team or vice versa? How is the mixed team better than a full Discord team?
In terms of what each build consists of, they are almost the same. Both of them are triple necro builds and exploit soul reaping, both use restore healers, both use curses, both use conditions, and both have very similar MMs. The differences are, hero elite skills, in Discordway, are all replaced by Discord and at least in the Discordway that I use, 2 heroes double up as restore healers.
Look at the elites from sabway, weapon of remedy, spiteful spirit, and jagged bones. Personally, I dont care much about replacing WoR and SS with Discord which I find to be more useful. Jagged bones, on the other hand, would help you out more in low minion areas since it grants your minions a second lease of life and adds bleeding condition. But Discordway has a reputation of working well even in low minion areas anyway even though the strength of the team would not be optimal then and I can live without having bleeding.
The advantage of Discord is fast recharging, armor-ignoring, high damage. And because it is fast recharging, you dont really need other damage skills in the skillbar to take casting time away from Discord. This means I can equip the rest of the slots with heals, besides the necessary curses and conditions to support Discord.
Why is it good to spread out heals, curses, conditions? Because in sabway if the healer dies, or is busy kiting from enemies, or is energy denied, or dazed, etc. you just lost your heals. Discordway compensates by having them on both heroes. Similarly because every hero has Discord, every hero can inflict the same fast recharging, high damage. Same concept for spreading out the curses and conditions in a 6-heroes team. Because of the redundancies, losing 1 hero to death would not cause as great an impact to the team. This is the main advantage of Discordway.
==== you can stop reading here if you dont want to read my silly stories
======
Let me illustrate this with the story of the Titanic that was sank by an iceberg. The irony is, the so-called "unsinkable" ship at that time wasn't really unsinkable, what is trully "unsinkable" is the iceberg. You can cut the iceberg into halves and both halves would still float because of redundancies. One half of the iceberg doesn't need the other half to float. Cut the ship into halves though and it would sink.
Me and my brother are working through prophecies HM with a full necro team which shapes up like this:
.....
I know, 2 lots of MoP + Barbs, but we both love the pretty numbers! I dont think I agree with that. There is no good reason to merge Discordway with Sabway. What advantage does Sabway give to a Discord team or vice versa? How is the mixed team better than a full Discord team?
In terms of what each build consists of, they are almost the same. Both of them are triple necro builds and exploit soul reaping, both use restore healers, both use curses, both use conditions, and both have very similar MMs. The differences are, hero elite skills, in Discordway, are all replaced by Discord and at least in the Discordway that I use, 2 heroes double up as restore healers.
Look at the elites from sabway, weapon of remedy, spiteful spirit, and jagged bones. Personally, I dont care much about replacing WoR and SS with Discord which I find to be more useful. Jagged bones, on the other hand, would help you out more in low minion areas since it grants your minions a second lease of life and adds bleeding condition. But Discordway has a reputation of working well even in low minion areas anyway even though the strength of the team would not be optimal then and I can live without having bleeding.
The advantage of Discord is fast recharging, armor-ignoring, high damage. And because it is fast recharging, you dont really need other damage skills in the skillbar to take casting time away from Discord. This means I can equip the rest of the slots with heals, besides the necessary curses and conditions to support Discord.
Why is it good to spread out heals, curses, conditions? Because in sabway if the healer dies, or is busy kiting from enemies, or is energy denied, or dazed, etc. you just lost your heals. Discordway compensates by having them on both heroes. Similarly because every hero has Discord, every hero can inflict the same fast recharging, high damage. Same concept for spreading out the curses and conditions in a 6-heroes team. Because of the redundancies, losing 1 hero to death would not cause as great an impact to the team. This is the main advantage of Discordway.
==== you can stop reading here if you dont want to read my silly stories
======Let me illustrate this with the story of the Titanic that was sank by an iceberg. The irony is, the so-called "unsinkable" ship at that time wasn't really unsinkable, what is trully "unsinkable" is the iceberg. You can cut the iceberg into halves and both halves would still float because of redundancies. One half of the iceberg doesn't need the other half to float. Cut the ship into halves though and it would sink.
Washi
As I said before, your precious elite SS will be useless in discord team because the target dies before SS even triggers,
MisterT69
I like pulling of discordway w/my AP ele, who runs a build which pretty much consists of [assassin's promise][you move like a dwarf]<--condition [mark of rodgort]<--hex as well as AP, [liquid flame] for da massive ub3r pwnz0r AoE dmg + burning thanks to rodgort. As well as some other utility like pain inverter but within the 4 sec burning that MoR + Liquid flame bring about, the discord necros are blowing the S*** out of everything
Numa Pompilius
This thread got me curious, so I tried out discordway. Yeah, I'd say it's better than sabway, certainly the team can take harder beating without wiping.
It has one weakness: if you play with H/H the necros will have some "down time" due to enemies not always having enchant/hex & a condition, so to get the most out of the necros one need to do like MisterT69 above, and bring hexing and conditions to help them out.
It has one weakness: if you play with H/H the necros will have some "down time" due to enemies not always having enchant/hex & a condition, so to get the most out of the necros one need to do like MisterT69 above, and bring hexing and conditions to help them out.
MercenaryKnight
I still believe, that the minion bomber from sab's can be kept pretty much with jagged bones. Only because as they have already stated, you get bleeding conditions as well as an extra minion when the others get blown up in hardmode. So they keep aggro and keep minions alive to keep pumping out the energy for your entire team.
I just really need to figure out some how to keep from dying when your up against the big heavy hitter boss types. I went before with 2 necro's with protective spirit and we had I think 4 healer rit setups. But it still wasn't enough to prevent a few deaths from the disc of chaos in hm (yes we didn't have dazed except from golems)
Just curious, would anyone consider a ritual lord rt/n or maybe just a plain n/rt with shelter mainly for bosses (I know they suck with ritual lord/ spirit spam builds, but shelter can atleast be precast and cover an entire party for the big time bosses). Or should I just stuck with trying to put some interrupts/ dazed into the human builds and just dealing with the deaths against the big time bosses.
I just really need to figure out some how to keep from dying when your up against the big heavy hitter boss types. I went before with 2 necro's with protective spirit and we had I think 4 healer rit setups. But it still wasn't enough to prevent a few deaths from the disc of chaos in hm (yes we didn't have dazed except from golems)
Just curious, would anyone consider a ritual lord rt/n or maybe just a plain n/rt with shelter mainly for bosses (I know they suck with ritual lord/ spirit spam builds, but shelter can atleast be precast and cover an entire party for the big time bosses). Or should I just stuck with trying to put some interrupts/ dazed into the human builds and just dealing with the deaths against the big time bosses.
distilledwill
Bear in mind in the build I posted SS is not played by a hero, but a human player. SS isnt entirely redundant when its played by another player, the two teams work in tandem focusing on different targets but healing and supplying energy to one another. SS is not cast on the target of the discord spike, I control who that goes to whilst my brother takes down the rest of the team. For example, whilst I spike down the monk, he will preoccupy the melee or offensive caster elements of the mob.
DarkSpirit
Quote:
Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight
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Disc of chaos is one of the toughest boss in the game, so I wont be surprised if they gain some DP from it.
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The entire build is flexible, the whole thing revolves around Discord so the rest of the skills are pretty much open. I put Shambling Horror on all 3 heroes and put BotM/Death Nova on different necs. Not really a fan of animate spells that recharge in 5secs - it means less time casting Discord. Having a full MM wouldn't actually solve the Nova prob, only way to fix that is cancelling it....I wouldn't recommend removing it either.|
Just curious, would anyone consider a ritual lord rt/n or maybe just a plain n/rt with shelter mainly for bosses (I know they suck with ritual lord/ spirit spam builds, but shelter can atleast be precast and cover an entire party for the big time bosses). Or should I just stuck with trying to put some interrupts/ dazed into the human builds and just dealing with the deaths against the big time bosses.
Communing spirits have been nerfed badly. Shelter would only last for seconds. Maybe for this case, I would bring a tank and manually cast PS on him.
MercenaryKnight
I was going with 6 heroes that's why I had no broad head arrow. I go with my gf who brings 3 more discord heroes and that was why I was trying to find some sort of protection n/mo or something that could aid the rest of the discord party since straight heals seems to lack against heavy hitters.
DarkSpirit
Quote:
Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight
I was going with 6 heroes that's why I had no broad head arrow. I go with my gf who brings 3 more discord heroes and that was why I was trying to find some sort of protection n/mo or something that could aid the rest of the discord party since straight heals seems to lack against heavy hitters.
I dont know what class you and your gf are using. If one of you is a ranger, then the solution is obvious, bring BHA.
My Discord MM is a N/Mo with Protective Spirit and Aegis.
MercenaryKnight
Yeah i'm paragon, she's a mesmer. We pretty much just both load up assassin's promise, you move like a dwarf, assassin support, finish him and focus on aiding the spikes. We can usually get a good 4-5 assassins up as damage and meatshields just by all the damage and deaths.
Most likely I will just try to make sure we have 1 or 2 necros with protective spirit and aegis, then hope for the best when we run into heavy hitters.
DarkSpirit
Quote:
Originally Posted by MercenaryKnight
Yeah i'm paragon, she's a mesmer. We pretty much just both load up assassin's promise, you move like a dwarf, assassin support, finish him and focus on aiding the spikes. We can usually get a good 4-5 assassins up as damage and meatshields just by all the damage and deaths.
Most likely I will just try to make sure we have 1 or 2 necros with protective spirit and aegis, then hope for the best when we run into heavy hitters. You are a Paragon? Use SY+TNTF then, if you are worried about heavy hitting bosses. 
MercenaryKnight
Yeah, I was just lazy and liked aiding in all the spikes. Watching enemies spike down 1 by 1 and 5-6 assassins running a muck is a lot more fun then spamming save yourselves. Plus I didn't have to worry about hexes or conditions screwing me over.
MisterT69
Anyways, thought I'd throw this in here, for the discord necros, if you throw [soul bind] instead of discord on the first skill bar, you can pretty easily dominate any destroyer you face in the game. Although if you're in an area w/destroyers and other creatures, it helps if you micro it at times
Mr Emu
So pretty much what i gather from this is AP nuker+discord for casters and something with SY!+racway for physicals. Also, if you only have one slot open, I see no reason to bring barbs over MoP, because MoP is RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing sexy.
rick1027
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterT69
Anyways, thought I'd throw this in here, for the discord necros, if you throw [soul bind] instead of discord on the first skill bar, you can pretty easily dominate any destroyer you face in the game. Although if you're in an area w/destroyers and other creatures, it helps if you micro it at times
have to try that out it sounds like an interesting variant
MercenaryKnight
Probably shouldn't need that hex Soul Bind unless you disable it and plan to fight some big warrior bosses or something. I bring a necro with like 10 curses and enfeebling blood and shadow of fear/ suffering for aoe hex and condition so all the pressure isn't on the actual player to be hexing and conditioning every target they come across.
It's a shame, I wish there were more aoe condition skills (don't really like rotting flesh) or I wish shadow of fear was a 1 second cast.
distilledwill
Quote:
Originally Posted by MisterT69
Anyways, thought I'd throw this in here, for the discord necros, if you throw [soul bind] instead of discord on the first skill bar, you can pretty easily dominate any destroyer you face in the game. Although if you're in an area w/destroyers and other creatures, it helps if you micro it at times
I thank you, ive been lookign for a way to take out the newer hardier destroyers. With the new soul bind I can imagine them going down a lot faster.
MercenaryKnight
Not quite sure if it's worth it. But so far whenever going into an area with a decent amount of corpses. I run 6 discord heroes, 2 of which both bring animate bone minions and death nova. Instead of bringing a jagged bones bomber they both can bring the discord elite as well as protective spirit, aegis or whatever else you may need.
I can generally see that between both of them they are able to keep up a good 15 or so minions easily, as well as dual death novas to get it going. Only bad thing is you can't bring blood of the master otherwise they would most likely sacrifice themselves to death. And you miss out on the bleeding condition from the jagged horrors. I would like to try a dual fiend build for more damage, but the problem is that it seems too energy intensive for them to keep summoning 25 energy bone fiends. Not to mention again, there would be no blood of the master to keep them healed between fights.
DarkSpirit
If you need heals without BoTM, you can always bring [[Heal Area] on the MM.
Trader of Secrets
Seems like this discord build is getting a hype. Is there a 4man build?
-Lotus-
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trader of Secrets
Seems like this discord build is getting a hype. Is there a 4man build?
DIscord isnt a set build. its 1 skill and a maxxed out death magic. tailor the rest of the skillbars around your character.
Antithesis
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSpirit
I MAY take the opportunity for a break and not get GW2, especially so if I do get a gaming console - too many games to play and not enough time to play them.
QFT. I'll get back to GW once Anet solidifies their plans for the Hall of Monuments and we know exactly what we'll get for our GW achievements. For now i'm having way too much fun caning my PS3 on the 52 inch Sony Bravia.Edited by Celestial Beaver: Non-Constructive Image Removed.
Fragile Feeling
Ok, so I'm a monk and want to run this triple necro build, but which would you suggest is best for me?
I personally like the look of discordway better because there is more damage, faster, and playing as a healer myself would allow more utility skills on the necros. Would it work at all to have [enfeebling blood] on one of the necros and [suffering] on another? Bloodseeker
yes, that would work well
Fragile Feeling
Im curious about one more thing actually, could you change the discord minion bomber to a minion master? because I hate how the hero will sometimes stop running just to start spamming death nova.
DarkSpirit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragile Feeling
Im curious about one more thing actually, could you change the discord minion bomber to a minion master? because I hate how the hero will sometimes stop running just to start spamming death nova.
Death nova poison helps to fill Discord's condition requirement too. Just flag your MM and he would immediately move to where you want him to.
Fragile Feeling
Yea very true, I just always found when i was running from group to group my minions and the minion master would be way behind spamming death nova.
Also, where is the official guide for discordway? Where I would find which weapons and runes to put on the necros? Master Necromanz
Its a few months old so there arent any guides and IF anyone would make a guide of it, he doesnt get the honor to the builds... There were too much people who saw that discord could be useful in any way. BUT it would be nice if there are any thread for people who want the builds or variants of it.
Cathode_Reborn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragile Feeling
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Antithesis
QFT. I'll get back to GW once Anet solidifies their plans for the Hall of Monuments and we know exactly what we'll get for our GW achievements. For now i'm having way too much fun caning my PS3 on the 52 inch Sony Bravia.
I might have to refund my PS3 for a 360 since I recently found out that PSN isn't Verizon-friendly =/ If you haven't got MGS4 by now, do it
 I'd be playing that online right now if I could get my connection to work :l
DarkSpirit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn
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Animate skills that recharge in 5sec is limited by corpse availability so they are not going to keep casting forever and you are probably not going to have that many corpses most of the time. Casting Animate Bone Minions helps to ensure that you have a steady stream of bombs.
Agree with your Nova comments though.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Antithesis
QFT. I'll get back to GW once Anet solidifies their plans for the Hall of Monuments and we know exactly what we'll get for our GW achievements. For now i'm having way too much fun caning my PS3 on the 52 inch Sony Bravia.
I may get a PS3 too.
Cathode_Reborn
Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkSpirit
Animate Shambling Horror has a 25s recharge, so MMs that bring it, usually bring a second minion skill also, otherwise you have to wait for quite awhile to build up your army, even if it is spreaded across 3 heroes.
For Discord builds, this is my preference in animate spells:
1: Shamblings - Only if there's multiple copies. You're basically getting 2 minions out of it without affecting the cap. A slightly lower recharge would be nice though. 2: Vamps - It isn't too spammable so heroes won't get carried away with it. I'd add this to one of the heroes if I want a few extra minions. 3: Bone Horror - It's a basic sturdy meatshield. Used to bring this alot more. I still use it on a rare occasion though, usually replacing Shambling on one of the necs. 4: Bone Minions - Much too weak for my taste. The leading cause of my team wiping is AoE damage, and these guys drop like flies when you're facing it. Also makes heroes use Nova much more than I want them to. Bombs are nice, but I prefer meatshields that will last abit longer while leaving the damage to Discord. 5: Animate Bone Fiends - In HM, I'd rather have my minions upfront, not ranged. And the 25e cost is horrible.
DarkSpirit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathode_Reborn
1: Shamblings - Only if there's multiple copies. You're basically getting 2 minions out of it without affecting the cap. A slightly lower recharge would be nice though. |
You are not bombing fast enough and not much of a minion wall. For bone minions, you are getting 2 every 5 seconds which is about 6 minions every 25 seconds with only 1 copy of the skill, taking casting time into account. If I take 3 copies of the skill too, I would have 18 minions versus your 3 shamblings.
Although minions are weaker than shamblings or jagged, where bombing is concerned, minion quantity is more important than quality. During HM battles, bone minions tend to die very quickly, so having a fast recharge helps.
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