I remember when the headgear with a superior rune attached was a near-given in PvE regardless of a character's profession. But, since the debut of hard mode, superior attribute runes have gone the way of the dodo save for a few specific uses.
Should they revamp the penalty to make superiors attractive again? This was done - mostly unsuccessfully- with majors, so there is a history of this kind of change. Or, should there be some other kind of buff... or should majors and sups just be removed completely?
Will the Superior Rune ever make a comeback?
Parson Brown
Snow Bunny
no
Why would they?
Why would they?
roshanabey2
I am sorry i lol'd when i saw this.....
komma
dang ive been running w sup runes on my headpieces this whole time
/facepalm
/facepalm
Jetdoc
Superior runes in Hard Mode are very acceptible for non-front line characters, as long as your team is experienced enough to obtain and hold aggro properly.
Warrior, Dervish, and Assassin (other than perma SF) superior runes aren't all that bad in NM PvE (and sometimes HM PvE), especially if you have a very good mid/backline.
Warrior, Dervish, and Assassin (other than perma SF) superior runes aren't all that bad in NM PvE (and sometimes HM PvE), especially if you have a very good mid/backline.
Winterclaw
There would have to be signifigant changes to how superior runes work or signifigant boost to skills at 15 and 16 points. I don't see that happening so no, sup runes are going to remain merchant junk.
kratimas
Quote:
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Originally Posted by roshanabey2
I am sorry i lol'd when i saw this.....
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oh I just lol'd again thinking about it
Selket
Why would you not run a sup rune in pve?
Its not like the monsters are stopping you from armor swapping
o.O
Its not like the monsters are stopping you from armor swapping
o.O
ALF71BE
You know what is funny...
That some people actually buy them.
That some people actually buy them.
The Red Messenger
theres only a few builds i dont use superior runes on in pve
most heroes i rune have a superior headpiece still
most heroes i rune have a superior headpiece still
romeus petrus
The number of people using superior runes even in PvE has gone down dramatically. Some very specific builds still use them. I dont think there is anything to be fixed regarding the health penality.
jimmyboveto
Honestly there's nothing wrong with superiors the way they are now...
If you are worried about the hp loss, think of it this way. If you character is ever down to 50hp (where the superior would actually make a difference), theres something wrong anyways, and they will most likely die whether they have some extra hp or not.
edit: and as others have said, there's always armor swapping....
If you are worried about the hp loss, think of it this way. If you character is ever down to 50hp (where the superior would actually make a difference), theres something wrong anyways, and they will most likely die whether they have some extra hp or not.
edit: and as others have said, there's always armor swapping....
Ate of DK
If you die in PvE and blame it on superiour runes... no comment.
In PvP it never was attractive to bring superiour runes.
And since almost every build in GW uses a spike in GW most people prefer HP.
In PvP it never was attractive to bring superiour runes.
And since almost every build in GW uses a spike in GW most people prefer HP.
hurdlebeast
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jetdoc
Superior runes in Hard Mode are very acceptible for non-front line characters, as long as your team is experienced enough to obtain and hold aggro properly.
Warrior, Dervish, and Assassin (other than perma SF) superior runes aren't all that bad in NM PvE (and sometimes HM PvE), especially if you have a very good mid/backline. |
BTW, the only reason i am using a sup rune is for Rodgort's spells, it increases the amount of burning by one second on each one, so for me it's worth it.
farmerfez
as a caster in PvE i use sup. In PvP I NEVER use em. xD
Numa Pompilius
Damn, I keep missing important memos!
I vanquished Tyria and became legendary guardian and legendary cartographer 100% with H/H, without use of ursan or consumables, and everyone in my team had a superior rune. If only I'd known superiors were death sentences!
Seriously, come on. If you find PvE so hard that using superiors is the difference between living and dying, then you probably need to change your build. Superiors are completely viable in PvE.
PvP is another matter entirely.
I vanquished Tyria and became legendary guardian and legendary cartographer 100% with H/H, without use of ursan or consumables, and everyone in my team had a superior rune. If only I'd known superiors were death sentences!
Seriously, come on. If you find PvE so hard that using superiors is the difference between living and dying, then you probably need to change your build. Superiors are completely viable in PvE.
PvP is another matter entirely.
Johny bravo
Superior runes are still used in PvE on most non-frontline characters. They aren't used in PvP because you want to keep you health at ~600-630 becuase of spikes. Spiking in PvE is not common place and is usually easily countered. For example an necro not running Sup runes as an MM is losing a lot, same with eles.
Caelus The Fallen
I'd use a superior in PvE, can't say 75HP has ever made a difference to anything, but the slight att boost makes things go just that little bit faster.
PvP situation is, of course, a different matter, what witht he focus on spiking.
I do remember a time when the conventional wisdom was that all characters had 1 superior, even warriors - not so much for the improved attack skill variables, but for the effective armour negation and critical hit ratio.
PvP situation is, of course, a different matter, what witht he focus on spiking.
I do remember a time when the conventional wisdom was that all characters had 1 superior, even warriors - not so much for the improved attack skill variables, but for the effective armour negation and critical hit ratio.
Kusandaa
In PvE, if I'm not a frontliner I'll have a sup rune. I know how to armor swap (I always carry two or three sets) and weapon swap (only my rit has one weapon set, because I don't use him much).
In PvP, as stated before it's about health. The damage reduction from a sup to a major, even a minor, isn't so bad against other players.
In PvP, as stated before it's about health. The damage reduction from a sup to a major, even a minor, isn't so bad against other players.
Conan the Linguist
I use a sup rune on my terra and perma. I dont know how I could've been so stupid
glacialphoenix
I have a Superior Fire (and other elements) Magic rune on my ele. My monk, however, uses pure minor runes except for the Vigor rune, which is a sup vigor.
My ele survives just fine. I don't see the problem, really? Some professions just don't need a superior rune. I don't need 16 Healing Prayers or 16 Protection Prayers to heal/prot effectively, so why should I get superior runes for either outside of particular builds?
My ele survives just fine. I don't see the problem, really? Some professions just don't need a superior rune. I don't need 16 Healing Prayers or 16 Protection Prayers to heal/prot effectively, so why should I get superior runes for either outside of particular builds?
Parson Brown
@roshan: please elaborate
@jimmy: Funny how people (not you, just people) will use the exact opposite argument to justify a sup vigor...
@Conan: Obviously those are specialized builds that REQUIRE a sup. Did it feel good to post, though?
@jimmy: Funny how people (not you, just people) will use the exact opposite argument to justify a sup vigor...
@Conan: Obviously those are specialized builds that REQUIRE a sup. Did it feel good to post, though?
Conan the Linguist
yes. i called my mom about what i did
Thizzle
I rarely use Superior runes on PvE characters unless it's a Elementalist that is using a single attribute other than energy storage.
Mouse at Large
And I run sup runed headgear as well.........please delete my Vanquisher title......*sob*.....the shame......
tmakinen
When observed completely impassionately, the fact that minor runes are the way to go when it really matters (i.e., in PvP) indicates that the runing system is not properly balanced, i.e., the malus for major and superior runes is unconditionally larger than the respective bonus.
Joe Fierce
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Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius
Damn, I keep missing important memos!
I vanquished Tyria and became legendary guardian and legendary cartographer 100% with H/H, without use of ursan or consumables, and everyone in my team had a superior rune. If only I'd known superiors were death sentences! Seriously, come on. If you find PvE so hard that using superiors is the difference between living and dying, then you probably need to change your build. Superiors are completely viable in PvE. PvP is another matter entirely. |
I personally run minors on heroes simply because they are stupid and the health detriment on them is minorly questionable (save when it's on a MM hero for count). I mean, sure in hm pve when i'm tanking i will wear a minor, but for the most part if you aren't tanking, and that little bit of health is the x-factor, you're doing something seriously wrong.
Tyla
Hard breakpoints: Use 'em.
No breakpoints: Don't.
No breakpoints: Don't.
Gun Pierson
I run minors most of the time, no need to use superior runes and waste 75hp. Except for 55/smite support and other specific builds ofcourse.
I understand what the OP is getting at, but epeen alrdy took over.
I understand what the OP is getting at, but epeen alrdy took over.
Joe Fierce
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Originally Posted by Tyla
Hard breakpoints: Use 'em.
No breakpoints: Don't. |
Dr Strangelove
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Winterclaw
There would have to be signifigant changes to how superior runes work or signifigant boost to skills at 15 and 16 points. I don't see that happening so no, sup runes are going to remain merchant junk.
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For most other stuff, there's no point.
Divinus Stella
I always use superior runes in PvE, anything that makes things faster is always good.
Vazze
PvE is not challenging enough to justify minor runes, and even if it was, you can remove DP and you can swap armor anytime (heroes: most of them have minor runes). The areas where HP could matter (ex-elite areas) were taken over by the ursans so it does not matter much what you can or can not run there.
Sniper22
Wait why does ursan need a sup rune?
gremlin
By the time people started querying the use of superior runes all my characters had 4 of each it just seemed the way to go.
Then the runes changed somewhat and of course I had all the old ones value zero.
I still run in pve with a superior rune and usually a major rune of vigor
Then the runes changed somewhat and of course I had all the old ones value zero.
I still run in pve with a superior rune and usually a major rune of vigor
StormDragonZ
I'm fine with my Major Vigor Runes.
Trylo
wait... dont you need to have a good period to have a comeback?
i never used sups since they start, statistically it just didnt make sense. 5 damage/health for -75 max health? nty. MMs might need them, for that goofy max limit thing.
i never used sups since they start, statistically it just didnt make sense. 5 damage/health for -75 max health? nty. MMs might need them, for that goofy max limit thing.
Numa Pompilius
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Trylo
i never used sups since they start, statistically it just didnt make sense. 5 damage/health for -75 max health? nty. MMs might need them, for that goofy max limit thing.
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For PvE I personally prefer the bigger numbers. Perhaps I die a bit more often, but on the other hand I also kill a bit faster.
But it's really a case of opinion, it's not so that you're gimped in PvE if you're using superior runes.
(Also the guy earlier in the thread who said that the fact that superiors aren't used in PvP show that the cost/benefit of runes is out of balance is completely right. In PvP the bigger numbers on skills don't make up for the greater vulnerability to spiking.)
Kanyatta
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Conan the Linguist
I use a sup rune on my terra and perma. I dont know how I could've been so stupid
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1) Read the post and respond in a sensible way.
2) Throw reading out the window and be as much of a sarcastic jackass as possible.
You obviously chose option #2.
On topic:
I never use sups in PvE or PvP, because having an extra armor piece with a minor rune for a swap just isn't worth it. I find having +75 health is much more helpful than doing +8 damage with my attacks, or healing for +12 more each spell. Plus, I save myself 1.5k~ per character by not buying another armor piece. If PvE is that much of a problem that you need the little extra damage/healing/energy/whatever to do it, you're playing it wrong.
Trylo
i find it very useful to have more health and a shield because the enemies that do break aggro and get back to me will not attack me. maybe my opinion is skewed because as a monk i want to remain alive at all times :P
also, looking at spells like SF which undergo ~20 damage per 3 levels it makes a little more sense statistically. However, as a prot monk, +3 on an attribute generally means 1 more second on an enchant which is just not worth it.
also, looking at spells like SF which undergo ~20 damage per 3 levels it makes a little more sense statistically. However, as a prot monk, +3 on an attribute generally means 1 more second on an enchant which is just not worth it.