Discussion: Izzy and smiting (2nd try) - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

zwei2stein

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jun 2006

Europe

The German Order [GER]

N/

01 Aug 2008 at 14:42 - 41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

No, they are two seperate things. Skills like WoC are unworkable, could have had a workable elite support skill instead. If dps is not good (and working as intended) and at the same time smite overall isn't that good as primary support in pve, I think the class can use some adjustments in PvE.

What about thinking a bit out of the box - if you don't like smiting elites on smite monk you are still allowed to use elites from *other* lines.

IslandHermet

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2007

01 Aug 2008 at 14:47 - 42

Quote:

Originally Posted by timebandit

Smiting is fine as it is.
Top GvG Guilds running smite support thanks to smite condition and buffed smite hex. Smiter's Boon gave the line some play.

Although I am with Izzy ... smiting must be a tame damage line, as channeling on rits should be. Otherwise you get 8 monks running around.

And finally LOL @ "...do you think it's fair that one powerful person can surpress a line like smiting? " spilled my coffee.

ooo no A monk spike AHHHH....... Let the monks have a overpowered spike THE RANGERS DO

I just take it izzy said All classes must be tame Except RANGERS muahaha.

around

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

Aussie Trolling Crew - Diplomatic Embassy

I Have Three Pennies [Pnny] - forever in my heart <3

R/

01 Aug 2008 at 15:02 - 43

Except rangers can't heal each other in between spiking.

SoMW was introduced to give monks a damage option, and see where that ended up...

Big John Thomas

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: May 2006

Urgoz Warren

R/Rt

01 Aug 2008 at 15:59 - 44

Last year a group of us did an all monk run in the FOW for fun.I think it was 5 smites 2 heal and a bonder.I can't remember what skills where used but it was just something thrown together at the time.All i can say is, if smiting was buffed and with the right builds it would be the way to speed clear the fow and then everyone would be crying about that then

Winterclaw

Wark!!!

Join Date: May 2005

Florida

W/

01 Aug 2008 at 18:25 - 45

I wouldn't mind a buff to the smiting damage line so long as it is done right. That said, I'm not sure I trust the balance team to do it right.

Snow Bunny

Alcoholic From Yale

Join Date: Jul 2007

Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]

01 Aug 2008 at 18:28 - 46

Don't buff smiting.

Monks are for support and they do it beautifully.

Winterclaw

Wark!!!

Join Date: May 2005

Florida

W/

01 Aug 2008 at 18:35 - 47

Quote:

Monks are for support and they do it beautifully.

I'm tired of fixed roles that were started with the original D&D. I also would like to do something in PvE more than be a healer/protect all the time. In PvP that's fine but in PvE I like to mix it up a little more.

Abedeus

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jan 2007

Niflheim

R/

01 Aug 2008 at 18:51 - 48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

I'm tired of fixed roles that were started with the original D&D. I also would like to do something in PvE more than be a healer/protect all the time. In PvP that's fine but in PvE I like to mix it up a little more.

You mean you want spells like Implosion, that easily can blow to pieces anyone in AoE except for high-Fortitude fighters and barbarians?

Besides, druids can heal too, they are like the ritualists of DnD. It's just that both Monk in GW and Cleric in DnD have the biggest buff/heal/prot capabilites.

FrAnt1c??

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2007

Belgium

Legion Of Sacred Light [LSL]

Mo/

01 Aug 2008 at 19:22 - 49

smiting is fine as it is imo... and yes it can be used in pve ( we do... )

NoXiFy

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2007

★☆٭Ńēŵ~ŶờЯК٭☆★

The Benecia Renovatio [RenO]

Mo/Me

01 Aug 2008 at 20:14 - 50

Smiting's FINE. Armor ignoring damage, signets that cause knockdown + damage isn't good? Look at all the AoE spells, there sick. Plus, smite hex and condition rape faces of opposing foes. ;o

Tearz1993

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2007

Relentless Aggressors [rA]

R/Mo

01 Aug 2008 at 20:31 - 51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

No, they are two seperate things. Skills like WoC are unworkable, could have had a workable elite support skill instead. If dps is not good (and working as intended) and at the same time smite overall isn't that good as support in pve, I think the class can use some adjustments in PvE.

[Amity] isn't a good skill.

So protection magic sucks?

Sir Seifus Halbred

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2006

01 Aug 2008 at 21:16 - 52

Smiting in PvP is amazing. That is, if you know what your doing...

manitoba1073

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

ManitobaShipyards Refit and Repair Station

(SFC)Star Fleet Command,(TDE)The Daggerfall elite,(SOoM)Secret order of Magi

01 Aug 2008 at 21:45 - 53

Yes buff smiting for both PvP and PvE.

Im not done knocking PvPers on there rumps.

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

01 Aug 2008 at 22:06 - 54

Shhee Izzy loves smiting more so than protection.

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

01 Aug 2008 at 22:33 - 55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

I'm tired of fixed roles that were started with the original D&D. I also would like to do something in PvE more than be a healer/protect all the time. In PvP that's fine but in PvE I like to mix it up a little more.

Too bad, really. Monks are support. They always have been, they always will be. If smiting gets buffed so they can be damage dealers, then every other class should be able to do something they weren't meant to do.

If you're tired of being support and want to do damage, roll a warrior (or an ele if you play with stupid people who believe they do the best damage in the game).

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

01 Aug 2008 at 23:19 - 56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tearz1993

[Amity] isn't a good skill.

So protection magic sucks?

I explained in my earlier post that I don't judge a class by one skill. The funny thing is that it's the post you replied to.

As for other classes playing different roles...My example of the ele protector in PvE still stands. Combined with a HB monk + dwayna's kiss and you're off to solo beat DoA with 6 heroes (or 2 men/6 heroes) and without cons. Just bring enough punch like imbagons as your defense will be solid with only taking up two slots. Thanks to that great ele protector. Foundry is still hard though, need a bit of luck there.

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

01 Aug 2008 at 23:21 - 57

Quote:

As for other classes playing different roles...My example of the ele protector in PvE still stands. Combined with a HB monk + dwayna's kiss and you're off to go beat DoA with 6 heroes and without cons. Just bring enough punch like imbagons as your defense will be solid with only taking up two slots.

Prot ele's use /mo to do something they weren't really meant to do. You want monks to be able to do something they aren't supposed to do - with their primary. There's a difference.

Yichi

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2005

Guild Hall, Vent, Guesting, PvE, or the occasional HA match...

Dark Alley [dR]

01 Aug 2008 at 23:24 - 58

tripple smite beat iway

izzy liked iway

therefore izzy hates smiting

Kanyatta

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2006

Guildless, pm me

R/Mo

01 Aug 2008 at 23:46 - 59

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Smiting MUST be weak or else you get 8x Mo immortal spike (or pressure) teams.

But Signet of Mystic Wrath spike was balanced and didn't need a nerf. Rite gaiz? ... gaiz??...

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

Each class has redheadedstepchild line, smiting is monk one, not big deal.

Not really. Mesmer doesn't have one (I guess Mesmers in general are redheadedstepchildren in PvE though), neither does Warrior, really. Ele attributes all have their place.

But yeah, I'd /sign for a Smite buff for PvE.

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

01 Aug 2008 at 23:47 - 60

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Prot ele's use /mo to do something they weren't really meant to do. You want monks to be able to do something they aren't supposed to do - with their primary. There's a difference.

There is indeed a difference yet the ele's primary makes that protecting build usefull, not the other way around.

Smiting does sound and looks offensive to me. Some skills even have Balthazar's name in it, the god of war.

But forget about it, it seems to be a big deal while it actually would hurt nobody in pve. It would only make some monks happy, big deal.

Dark Paladin X

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2007

A/

02 Aug 2008 at 01:48 - 61

well, if you think about it, [Castigation Signet] and [Mantra of Inscription] serve great syngery and good energy management (better than [Power Drain] IMO since the signet deals damage and give energy while [Power Drain] simply interrupts, cost energy, and then give energy). Since, the greatest problem with monks is e-management.

Winterclaw

Wark!!!

Join Date: May 2005

Florida

W/

02 Aug 2008 at 02:22 - 62

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Too bad, really. Monks are support. They always have been, they always will be. If smiting gets buffed so they can be damage dealers, then every other class should be able to do something they weren't meant to do.

If you're tired of being support and want to do damage, roll a warrior (or an ele if you play with stupid people who believe they do the best damage in the game).

Have a warrior.

Being support is fine, but if you have a damage line, you should be able to do some reasonable damage with it. If they don't want monks doing a lot of damage, I'm okay with that just so long as they don't have a line called smiting and then fill it with ill-concieved skills.

Don't get me wrong, there is a little usability for that line, but it needs to be a little more than SioJ, smite hex, smite condition, and RoD.

LifesRestorer

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2007

London, England

Mo/

02 Aug 2008 at 02:50 - 63

i'm pretty sure the smiting line made the early generations of 55 monking available, seeing as secondaries had to be used to not get interrupted rather than to deal damage.

garethporlest18

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

[HiDe]

W/

02 Aug 2008 at 07:20 - 64

I think some damage buffs to the line are in order, WoC should have a recharge or damage buff, Bane Signet should be upped about 10-12 points, and have the recharge about 12-15. Banish about 10 points. Signet of Rage and Mystic should have damage upped a bit, or at the very least changed around so they do more damage than they do now. Shield of Judgement should be reworked. Ray of Judgement should be re-worked, 15-20 second recharge, remove the disabling effect, or do one or the other at the very least, maybe up the cast time to 2 seconds to go with the shorter recharge.

Symbol of Wrath should be reduced to 15-20s recharge. Smite down to 8 recharge, Holy Strike down to 5s recharge. Smite Hex 5-8 second recharge. Defender's Zeal would be a good skill if monsters didnt' die so fast. So maybe change that skill around to when a monster hits with an attack you gain 4..12..16 energy and this hex ends or something of the sort.

Sure it's a support line in PvP, but I don't think it was ever meant for a support line in PvE seeing as monks already have 2 main support lines. So PvE wise I think it should turn to damage and I don't know what you guys read but monks do damage big time against evil. Just because they're holy doesn't mean they shouldn't have insane damage capabilities. Not saying they should be overpowered in this game like that or anything, but just saying in general.

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

02 Aug 2008 at 07:26 - 65

^
To be honest, giving Symbol of Wrath and it's counterpart the ability to be used on a target would be a better idea.

Lord Sojar

The Fallen One

Join Date: Dec 2005

Oblivion

Irrelevant

Mo/Me

02 Aug 2008 at 07:42 - 66

Smiter Boon + Smite hex/condition + balths pendulum + RoD = hax

Smiting is quite alright.

And smiting monks and dervish rip apart undead. Take a smiter with you into Shards of Orr in HM. Hell, take that and a balth dervish and watch the mayhem. Stuff just EXPLODES.

Makkert

Black Beast of Aarrrrgghh

Join Date: May 2005

The Netherlands

The Biggyverse [PLEB] // Servants of Fortuna [SoF]

02 Aug 2008 at 10:00 - 67

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

The knock down is nice but really isn't needed, a lot of dmg is needed though in PvE.

I stopped reading after this...

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

02 Aug 2008 at 17:55 - 68

Quote:

Originally Posted by Makkert

I stopped reading after this...

You don't have to agree with me, but if you can't explain your view, don't bother. This is a discussion. Wanne talk about knockdown and damage in PvE? That's cool, I'm all ears.

@Garethporlest18: I think we're on the same line there.

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

02 Aug 2008 at 20:21 - 69

Quote:

Originally Posted by RotteN

people already explained it :

Smiting is a great support line. Not a raw damage line.

I am not complaining my warrior can heal better with secondary profession skills than with primary skills, now am I ? why ? easy, warriors aren't supposed to be healing. Monks are not a damage class, get over it.

I took a smiter in RA and id really well with it and took down some Warriors I go the idea from poster over at The Guild Hall.It worked well.

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

03 Aug 2008 at 09:14 - 70

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

Have a warrior.

Being support is fine, but if you have a damage line, you should be able to do some reasonable damage with it. If they don't want monks doing a lot of damage, I'm okay with that just so long as they don't have a line called smiting and then fill it with ill-concieved skills.

Don't get me wrong, there is a little usability for that line, but it needs to be a little more than SioJ, smite hex, smite condition, and RoD.

But smiting isn't a damage line. It's a support line with offensive capability. The name of the line is irrelevant, what the lines meant to do in the game is all that matters.

Also, there's more to the line than those 4 skills.

In PvP, there's (not mentioning skills that synergize with smiting):

[Balthazars Aura][Balthazar's Pendulum][Bane Signet][Castigation Signet][Holy Wrath][Judge's Insight][Reversal of Damage][Signet of Judgment][Signet of Rage][Smite Condition][Smite Hex][Strength of Honor]

In PvE there's all of the above, and a few more useful skills. Quite a few more than 4, don't you think?

Quote:

Sure it's a support line in PvP, but I don't think it was ever meant for a support line in PvE seeing as monks already have 2 main support lines. So PvE wise I think it should turn to damage and I don't know what you guys read but monks do damage big time against evil. Just because they're holy doesn't mean they shouldn't have insane damage capabilities. Not saying they should be overpowered in this game like that or anything, but just saying in general.

Your first sentence makes absolutely no sense. Smiting wasn't meant as a support line in PvE because monks have 2 other support lines? They have the exact same in PvE as they do in PvP.

Monks being holy has nothing to do with them not supposed to be doing damage. It has to do with monks being made as a support class. Monks were meant to be support and not be damage the same way as warriors were meant to be damage and not be support. If you give monks in PvE a way to do big damage, I want my warrior to be able to be a healer in PvE.

Tiny Killer

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Apr 2006

Oshkosh, WI USA

Exile Champions of Heroic Order [ECHO]

03 Aug 2008 at 09:33 - 71

I have not gone heal/protect in over a year. The smite line is just fine, in my opinion.

garethporlest18

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

[HiDe]

W/

03 Aug 2008 at 09:33 - 72

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

Your first sentence makes absolutely no sense. Smiting wasn't meant as a support line in PvE because monks have 2 other support lines? They have the exact same in PvE as they do in PvP.

Monks being holy has nothing to do with them not supposed to be doing damage. It has to do with monks being made as a support class. Monks were meant to be support and not be damage the same way as warriors were meant to be damage and not be support. If you give monks in PvE a way to do big damage, I want my warrior to be able to be a healer in PvE.

When the game first started out, I do not think Smiting was meant to be a support line, seeing as it had more damage dealing skills than it did support skills. Indirect and direct. It seems to have been changed into a support line now and I'm saying it shouldn't be a support line and should be directed more towards damage dealing.

Monks should be able to heal you, protect you from damage and do some damage to the enemy, right now it's just not enough and a few of the skills need to be buffed in some way, I'm not saying the damage should be massive, just a tiny bit more than it is now and..some of the skills need to be more useful, like the suggestions I gave in my first post.

Then again, the smiting line was probably meant as offensive support, seeing as most of the skills do damage in some way but target allies. I still think that makes it a damage line, and one that should be buffed in some places. I say this only for PvE because, PvE is not as much of a team game as it used to be. I know people like being content with what little they have, but you should always try to get more.

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

03 Aug 2008 at 11:16 - 73

Exactly, I started out in pre-sear with Bane Signet, Banish and Retribution three years ago. Which is zero support, but direct and indirect damage. You know why? Cause healing and protection and divine are already support. As we had a lot of skills that target an enemy back in the days, it also meant the line didn't get a lot of the divine favor bonus. Which is normal, as it prooves it's an offensive line and was meant to be one.

Izzy changed it into a support role cause he hates smiting. He throws in smiter's boon, smite hex and smite condition and now a lot of players think it's always meant to be a support line. He can fool a lot of you, but not this old timer.

Btw, I know he hates smiting because a dev told me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkantos

The name of the line is irrelevant, what the lines meant to do in the game is all that matters.

Can't believe you wrote that. It's like a black dye giving a white colour and you're ok with that as the role of dye is to colour.

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

03 Aug 2008 at 11:48 - 74

Healing Signet should be made to target any ally and buffed, so that Warriors have better support. It is only fair because Guild Wars is a game clearly designed around single-character-capability balance.

Seriously. This is serious.

TheHaxor

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2007

two

W/N

03 Aug 2008 at 11:48 - 75

Quote:

Originally Posted by garethporlest18

Signet of Rage should have damage upped a bit

BAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA

thanks for making me laugh

smiter's boon is dumb and way too effective, but the actual smiting skills are fine with exception of signet of rage and maybe SoH stacking with conjure

DarkNecrid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

03 Aug 2008 at 12:06 - 76

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

Izzy changed it into a support role cause he hates smiting. He throws in smiter's boon, smite hex and smite condition and now a lot of players think it's always meant to be a support line. He can fool a lot of you, but not this old timer.

[Smite Hex] is a Core skill.

around

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

Aussie Trolling Crew - Diplomatic Embassy

I Have Three Pennies [Pnny] - forever in my heart <3

R/

03 Aug 2008 at 12:26 - 77

Quote:

Can't believe you wrote that. It's like a black dye giving a white colour and you're ok with that as the role of dye is to colour.

It would be irritating for a day then people would know that white is the new black.

Giving damage options to monks is dumb; can't anyone remember SoMW spike? That shit was seriously seriously lame.

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

03 Aug 2008 at 12:31 - 78

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

[Smite Hex] is a Core skill.

True and you get a cookie for that. Nevertheless it doesn't change a thing to what I was explaining.

Reversal of damage: Nightfall
Judge's intervention: Nightfall
Smite condition: Eye of the North

Smiter's boon (divine): Eye of the north

@ around: you're right, that's why we left pvp out of the discussion. I think that's ok, since we have a pvp/pve split now. PvE has the setting now to give smite the role it was meant to be.

But uhm, wouldn't it be more logical if black dye would just give a black colour? And that's the whole point of it. Smite shouldn't be support in PvE.

DarkNecrid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

03 Aug 2008 at 12:42 - 79

Quote:

True and you get a cookie for that. Nevertheless it doesn't change a thing to what I was explaining.

I disagree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

Izzy changed it into a support role cause he hates smiting. He throws in smiter's boon, smite hex and smite condition and now a lot of players think it's always meant to be a support line. He can fool a lot of you, but not this old timer.

He never changed it. It has always had support skills since the start of the game, he just enhanced that part of the line over time to become an even better support role. It was always meant to be a support line with a bit of light damage, that is all it has ever been. That is all it will ever be.

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

03 Aug 2008 at 13:07 - 80

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

I disagree.

He never changed it. It has always had support skills since the start of the game, he just enhanced that part of the line over time to become an even better support role. It was always meant to be a support line with a bit of light damage, that is all it has ever been. That is all it will ever be.

Oh really, make me a viable support smite build with only core and prophecies' smite skills. I have some protect and healing builds from that time that outclass the smiting support role by far, because imo it was not meant to start out as a support role back then.

A bit of light damage? Balthasar's Aura (pre nerf), symbol of wrath, were pretty big dmg dealers back in the days.

On a side note, we didn't have AoE scatter back then and smite was used by monks to do crazy damage, not to support. Shield of judgment, another big damage dealer. Zealot's Fire (pre nerf). All from that era. AoE scatter made those skills less usefull nowadays. And it's why smiting is now seen as a support role. And that's a shame as the line deserves more than that.