Update - Thursday August 7 - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

11 Aug 2008 at 22:38 - 521

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Firestorm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Providing methods that greatly cheapen the game are bad..

Subjective.

Then I'm glad you're not a dev.

Here's an example Let's say that God of War 3 gets released on the PS3. The game's hardest difficulty is God mode. Player's complain that the God Mode difficulty is too hard, so the developer's for God of War release an update that gives you five times the health and have you deal five times the damage.

Now, can you see why that update is unbalanced? Not only that, but can you see why it's so unnecessary? While UB wasn't as dangerously gamebreaking it was still allowing one thing: giving very unskilled players access into the hardest content.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Firestorm

Vague, and quite debatable as to whether that has happended with anything in this update.

You seem to be assuming that I'm stating that's what happened with this update. Quite the opposite. Before this update, time>skill was quite prevelent in PvE skills with their tie to titles. Now the benefit you get from leveling that title is greatly reduced, hence why this

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Firestorm

Huh? Didn't see that coming after reading your ealier posts in this thread. I persuaded you that easily? Anyway, glad we agree.

I said this was a good update because the things I listed:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Providing methods that greatly cheapen the game are bad..
Providing methods that greatly reduce the effort required to play through the game are bad.
So on the whole, this was a good update.

...were addressed. Not solved, but addressed. UB was nerfed and the grind benefits were greatly reduced.

So, as we can see, ANet seems to disagree on your matter of "subjectivity".

Red Sonya

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2005

11 Aug 2008 at 23:49 - 522

Now I think they should add the ability to change into Junju's (sp)(worms) in the Elite areas.

No ranks required.

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

11 Aug 2008 at 23:57 - 523

And that would do...what?

bhavv

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Sep 2006

12 Aug 2008 at 00:24 - 524

I would just like to say lol @ all the people that thought non elite PVE only skills like Pain Inverter were going to get nerfed.

The elite changes are very nice, gives me more stuff to play with.

Phineas

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

UK

12 Aug 2008 at 01:51 - 525

Unyielding Aura won't last long in its current form though.

And here's why... Running.

It allows a hero with this skill to take the player to pretty much anywhere without a fight. Even past obstacles that would prevent a human player from progressing (barricades in EotN that disappear later in the quest chain). Mobs don't spawn unless a human player moves into the area so this has enabled my warrior to open virtually all outposts in EotN. The warrior has only completed the initial quest to investigate the Eye of the North.

Sure, there are exceptions, but this opens up a lot of runs that are currently profitable to runners to anybody with a hero. I recommend a D/Mo, Mo/D with 12 Wind Prayers, Unyielding Aura and Enchanted Haste as a minimum build, or a perma A/Me hero with Mimicry and UA on your own char if you're running maps with heavily infested starting areas (e.g. Ice Dome).

'Survivors' need not apply.

Vazze

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2006

12 Aug 2008 at 02:27 - 526

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Here's an example Let's say that God of War 3 gets released on the PS3. The game's hardest difficulty is God mode. Player's complain that the God Mode difficulty is too hard, so the developer's for God of War release an update that gives you five times the health and have you deal five times the damage.

Talking about difficulty, GW PvE has probably one of the worst difficulty system among all games that I have played. I think we can agree that the so called "elite" areas mean nothing with ursan being here for almost a year and HM is hardly more difficult than NM. I hope this gets resolved in GW2.

Tom Swift

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2007

12 Aug 2008 at 03:43 - 527

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phineas

Unyielding Aura won't last long in its current form though.

And here's why... Running.

It allows a hero with this skill to take the player to pretty much anywhere without a fight. Even past obstacles that would prevent a human player from progressing (barricades in EotN that disappear later in the quest chain). Mobs don't spawn unless a human player moves into the area so this has enabled my warrior to open virtually all outposts in EotN. The warrior has only completed the initial quest to investigate the Eye of the North.

Sure, there are exceptions, but this opens up a lot of runs that are currently profitable to runners to anybody with a hero. I recommend a D/Mo, Mo/D with 12 Wind Prayers, Unyielding Aura and Enchanted Haste as a minimum build, or a perma A/Me hero with Mimicry and UA on your own char if you're running maps with heavily infested starting areas (e.g. Ice Dome).

'Survivors' need not apply.

Holy Cow! this does work. And i won't have time to try it out in any dungeons until after the weekend by which time it will probably be nerfed (sob).

ManMadeGod

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2005

12 Aug 2008 at 04:02 - 528

Good update.

Way of Assassin was overpowered, but it has been changed again.

Visions of Regret is very powerful too. It's like AoE backfire on every class.
And WW deals a lot of dmg. Combine with other domination skills makes it extremely powerful.

But some weak elite skills that rarely used are still there. (generally pvp situations)

W
Primal Rage
Magehunter Strike (compare with Magebane Shot...)
Hundred Blades
Skull Crack

R
Archer's Signet
Quick Shot

Mo
Life Sheath
Ray of Judgment
Word of Censure

N
Cultist's Fervor
Ravenous Gaze
Soul Leech
Feast of Corruption (15en, slow cast and long recharge)
Lingering Curse (too much energy and sac)
Signet of Suffering (req. 4 hexes, slow cast with long recharge)

Me
Power Flux
Shared Burden
Power Leech

E
Double Dragon

A
Seeping Wound
Wastrel's Collapse

Rt
Clamor of Souls (worst PBAoE skill ever)
Signet of Ghostly Might
Weapon of Fury
Weapon of Quickening (not really that bad but reduce cast time to 1 will be a fair deal imo)
Tranquil Was Tanasen (increase the duration or decrease energy cost)
Spirit Channeling (a pretty bad e-management elite enchantment)

P
Is it just me or you too think para elites are somewhat weak?

D
Arcane Zeal
Avatar of Grenth (it is still not worth 15 en imo)

Azza

Banned

Join Date: Oct 2006

Australia

United Farmers of Europe[FOE]

R/

12 Aug 2008 at 15:58 - 529

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

By that logic ANet could add anything to their game, and it could be as unbalanced as a skill that kills all foes in the area.

Hence, it's not advisable to follow that logic.

well big whoop if a skill could, if i dont like that skill and i want a challenge i wouldnt use that skill see how simple it is to avoid something...i avoided ursan the whole time..still got everything i needed done, with guildies and our own ways...Ursan was good for pugs, cus honestly go pug with an old school UW clearing group(OF tank, Bonder, HB etc) they all suck in pug groups...guild groups NP....

simple fact is if i avoid it, it doesnt effect me...see my point bryant, or u still stuck in ur own a$$?

anyway Ursan or No Ursan, HM is still very easy in every camapign, Elite areas are easy with simple builds(not using PvE only skills either)

my son had legendary guardian and vanquisher(only using Ursan in 1 area "majestys rest", on accident) but took me back to do it, with a dazing hammer war...its the intelligents that gets u threw the game not just skill, i use to hear people bitch in slavers all the time "(insert name's) u guys were useless, were in ursan all r10 and we still failed"...so im gathering ursan teaming did take some thought...other the tank KD and paw swipe

Nightow

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Kindred Order of Souls [KOS]

12 Aug 2008 at 16:09 - 530

Quote:

Originally Posted by ManMadeGod

Weapon of Quickening (not really that bad but reduce cast time to 1 will be a fair deal imo)

5 plat says they'll take it out of communing if it's buffed/changed.

wynoski

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2006

In a hot spot

United Vanguard [UV]

N/

12 Aug 2008 at 16:40 - 531

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

I tested OoU with Carniae, and I can confirm it's an utter piece of trash. The most DPS you'll get out of it is 70ish...and a full minion army can do waaaaay more than that.

A big Death Nova bomb might work, but it's too technical.

I'm tempted to make a Warrior just to cheese through Hard Mode, though,

PS: Vampiric Spirit is broken in Arenas. Vampiric Spirit + Blood Renewal = invincibility.

Heros Spam OoU, so you have to manually use it...seems to work well if you do it that way tho

Vazze

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2006

12 Aug 2008 at 16:46 - 532

gj nerfing ursanway. Now the question is when tankandspank is going to get nerfed? I almost forgot how much I hated that, although every profession has different builds, using them requires no skill at all. Actually, even ursan needed more skill to use, at least you had to chose a target at your time and location. In the tankandspank you just nuke the mob, that's it, executing the same combos in the same way over and over again.
In PvP there was a definite improvement in player skill in every level of the game (from AB to GvG) while PvE has been more like stagnating.

Martin Firestorm

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

Louisiana

E/Me

12 Aug 2008 at 16:51 - 533

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Then I'm glad you're not a dev.

You have cut me to the quick.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Now, can you see why that update is unbalanced? Not only that, but can you see why it's so unnecessary? While UB wasn't as dangerously gamebreaking it was still allowing one thing: giving very unskilled players access into the hardest content.

No, I not only don't see that, I don't get how someone I thought was such a huge anti-UB guy could say this with a straight face. No updates at all are necessary imo--I'm a little surprised we're still getting them. But you're all over the map on whether this update is good or bad. You talk about how "unnecessary" and "unbalanced" it is, but then reaffirm that its a "good" update. w/e

Snow Bunny

Alcoholic From Yale

Join Date: Jul 2007

Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]

12 Aug 2008 at 16:53 - 534

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vazze

Now the question is when tankandspank is going to get nerfed?

tank n' spank is significantly slower than running in with monks, a paragon, and a bunch of physicals and blowing stuff up.

wynoski

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2006

In a hot spot

United Vanguard [UV]

N/

12 Aug 2008 at 16:56 - 535

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

I can prove to you one thing: removing inherent meaning from the game does not make it "better". Nor is making it more "fun". The challenge is having it be more fun while keeping in mind the basic fundamentals of the game.

Making a new profession that plays just like a shooter and doesn't rely on any skills or builds would be pretty fun to a lot of people, but it's not maintained in the spirit of the game.

Meaning? The game has Meaning? WTF. I have never watched a cut scene, i don't know any of the plots, I usually am surprised when I get to end game.

Why does the game have to be hard? I get a few hours a night to play. I want to be successful, not UBER, not Leet...

imnotyourmother

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

in a house

The Knitters Guild

W/R

12 Aug 2008 at 17:17 - 536

Phew...I am uninfected the changes!! WOOT. No disease in PRE Searing. Ursan.. what is ursan? LOL I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT I WANT IT. oh I am in pre I can not get it. LOL

LDoA here I COME!!!

Mindless just mindless

Kashrlyyk

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2005

12 Aug 2008 at 17:51 - 537

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phineas

Unyielding Aura won't last long in its current form though.

And here's why... Running.

It allows a hero with this skill to take the player to pretty much anywhere without a fight. Even past obstacles that would prevent a human player from progressing (barricades in EotN that disappear later in the quest chain). Mobs don't spawn unless a human player moves into the area so this has enabled my warrior to open virtually all outposts in EotN. The warrior has only completed the initial quest to investigate the Eye of the North.

Sure, there are exceptions, but this opens up a lot of runs that are currently profitable to runners to anybody with a hero. I recommend a D/Mo, Mo/D with 12 Wind Prayers, Unyielding Aura and Enchanted Haste as a minimum build, or a perma A/Me hero with Mimicry and UA on your own char if you're running maps with heavily infested starting areas (e.g. Ice Dome).

'Survivors' need not apply.

Can this be used to get the Dunes of Despair bonus?

Numa Pompilius

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

At an Insit.. Intis... a house.

Live Forever Or Die Trying [GLHF]

W/Me

12 Aug 2008 at 19:18 - 538

I just tried the Unyielding Aura thing, and can't get the hero to cancel it. I've run bonder heroes many times, so I know how to cancel an enchant, but no matter how I click Unyielding Aura wont end.

kade

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2005

Currently residing in ToA dis 1

Mo/

12 Aug 2008 at 19:20 - 539

I wonder if Anet is warming to the idea of releasing potentially overpowered skills then nerfing them, as opposed to releasing usless skills then buffing them later? At least with the former approach the skill actually gets used at some point!

neat update, might actually reinstall to try it out

Phineas

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2005

UK

12 Aug 2008 at 19:28 - 540

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

I just tried the Unyielding Aura thing, and can't get the hero to cancel it. I've run bonder heroes many times, so I know how to cancel an enchant, but no matter how I click Unyielding Aura wont end.

You need to click on your own name in the party list first.

Numa Pompilius

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: May 2005

At an Insit.. Intis... a house.

Live Forever Or Die Trying [GLHF]

W/Me

12 Aug 2008 at 20:03 - 541

Well damn, you're right. Works like a charm.

EDIT: And can be abused silly. Boss-farming, here I come.

Stuart444

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2007

Alexandria, Scotland

The Charter Vanguard [CV]

W/

12 Aug 2008 at 21:55 - 542

Hey, I just had a thought

Would it be possible in Slavers (duncan's level) to have a hero with Unyielding Aura (I Just found out how good it is as a Rez >_> ) to stand back at the door area while two or more players go up to duncan and use Ebon Vanguard Sniper and when you die you get rezed by the hero, just to go and do it again

I mean, it would mean you wouldn't have a chance at losing really and Duncan wouldn't have much time to recover since you dont get send back to the rez shrine near the beginning. Perhaps even use swap to move the spirits just so all you have to worry about is running up, using sniper support, dieing, then go back and do it again from about 5 feet away (roughly thats how far the bit near duncan is)

sorry if any of that seemed confusing but its a thought I had since I have had a ****ING terrible time at trying to beat duncan with two people and heroes.

anyway what do people think? could it work providing we make sure all popups are killed and stuff <_< so the monk doesn't die

Snow Bunny

Alcoholic From Yale

Join Date: Jul 2007

Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]

12 Aug 2008 at 22:33 - 543

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart444

(duncan's level)

Doesn't Duncan have something like 60,000 HP?

Wouldn't you need to spam that at least 120 times (assuming you hit 10% chance EVERY TIME) for that to work..?

Stuart444

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2007

Alexandria, Scotland

The Charter Vanguard [CV]

W/

12 Aug 2008 at 22:43 - 544

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Doesn't Duncan have something like 60,000 HP?

Wouldn't you need to spam that at least 120 times (assuming you hit 10% chance EVERY TIME) for that to work..?

I have no clue, I know he's got a LOT of hp (grrrr) but the whole necro/corpse way that I heard about doesn't appeal to me much, and that takes a long time anyway (from what I have heard)

januscht

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2008

Order Of The Abominations [OoTA]

N/

12 Aug 2008 at 22:57 - 545

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart444

I have no clue, I know he's got a LOT of hp (grrrr) but the whole necro/corpse way that I heard about doesn't appeal to me much, and that takes a long time anyway (from what I have heard)

yea waaaaaay long, like 3 mins >_>

Bryant Again

Hall Hero

Join Date: Feb 2006

13 Aug 2008 at 01:30 - 546

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Firestorm

But you're all over the map on whether this update is good or bad. You talk about how "unnecessary" and "unbalanced" it is, but then reaffirm that its a "good" update. w/e

I've never in this thread said this update was "bad". What I referred to be unbalanced and unnecessary has been what ANet had *before* the update hit. The reason I love this update is because it takes notice and addresses those issues, the "unbalanced" and "unnecessary" additions that existed largely BEFORE the update hit. Where are you getting that I'm referring to the update as those things?

Martin Firestorm

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2005

Louisiana

E/Me

13 Aug 2008 at 16:53 - 547

Well, I guess I misunderstood--my bad.

AsyaMordina

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jul 2006

Beguine Guild [BGN]

13 Aug 2008 at 19:51 - 548

Figured I'd give this update a week of trying before commenting. Not my favorite update. Things I don't care for:
* Slugfest GvG - To roll or be rolled
* Incendiary Arrows - aka prep Barrage
* Henchie AI - broken
* Ursan nerf - YES, it was overpowered, BUT it made pug DoA possible. Now DoA has returned to its Dead on Arrival status.

Having done everything in GW with at least one character, the only things of interest to me are: GvG/AB/DoA, and this update severely impacted all three of these area to the negative.

angmar_nite

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2007

[SNOW] of [YUM]

E/

13 Aug 2008 at 23:58 - 549

I guess SMS's next DOA run will go even faster now?

Abedeus

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jan 2007

Niflheim

R/

14 Aug 2008 at 10:18 - 550

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Doesn't Duncan have something like 60,000 HP?

Wouldn't you need to spam that at least 120 times (assuming you hit 10% chance EVERY TIME) for that to work..?

Don't forget about his skill - if you hit him for 900, you get hit back for at least 650 (skill is bugged and it hits back for 75% - 200% dmg). So unless you are constantly PS'ed, you won't survive those 120 times ;p Spoil Victor is still better...

englitdaudelin

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2006

East Coast

Soldier's Union [SU]

N/Me

14 Aug 2008 at 13:41 - 551

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Manatee

Weird note on incendiary arrows, it actually hits 3 targets randomly near your target, and not necessarily your target. Also it works with preparations and splinter... so g'bye splinter barrage... wait... Critcendiary disruption A/R FTW! GOGOGOGOGO!

I was playing with variations of these last night--shooting atr master of Damage, other targets.

Splinter+incendiary is tons of fun. So's ignite arrows+conjure flame+incendiary. Haven't tried it with my sin. But... It was a joy.

I wonder if Incendiary Arrows will be chosen more often than Barrage or Burning Arrow.

Turtle222

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2007

:D:D

D/W

08 Sep 2008 at 22:58 - 552

I've noticed a significant reduction in players since this update. Perhaps it is the ursan nerf. Despite what people say, ursan did bring the community together in hard areas, particularly DOA, which can now be officially be mistaken as Chernobyl due to inactivity. Just wondering...it is the ursan hater's time to shine...so where is he?

boogerboy72

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Sep 2007

[Scar]

N/Me

08 Sep 2008 at 22:59 - 553

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turtle222

I've noticed a significant reduction in players since this update. Perhaps it is the ursan nerf. Despite what people say, ursan did bring the community together in hard areas, particularly DOA, which can now be officially be mistaken as Chernobyl due to inactivity. Just wondering...it is the ursan hater's time to shine...so where is he?

bitching and moaning about vs farms.

Striken7

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2007

The District Nudists

R/

08 Sep 2008 at 23:04 - 554

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turtle222

I've noticed a significant reduction in players since this update...

I have noticed the opposite.

SeewhutIdidthar?

Arlan

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jun 2005

FaT

Mo/

08 Sep 2008 at 23:30 - 555

sells 50,000 more Eotn

About time the heroes started behaving!!!!!

Turtle222

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2007

:D:D

D/W

08 Sep 2008 at 23:56 - 556

Quote:

Originally Posted by Striken7

I have noticed the opposite.

SeewhutIdidthar?

Here's a cookie, now go sit in the corner :P

Savio

Teenager with attitude

Join Date: Jul 2005

Fifteen Over Fifty [Rare]

08 Sep 2008 at 23:58 - 557

I've noticed that it's not August anymore. If you must discuss the aftereffects of the update, create a new thread, as people are going to be confused by the rest of thisthread. Closed.