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Originally Posted by Jetdoc
P.S. Dragon Slash with the latest Save Yourself is simply on crack. Adrenaline management isn't even a worry any longer.
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Update - Thursday August 7
MarlinBackna
Turbobusa
I must say that the xinrae bug was quite annoying.
Especially when you're vanquishing and it happens about 30minutes after you start.
Funny nonetheless
Especially when you're vanquishing and it happens about 30minutes after you start.
Funny nonetheless
DarkNecrid
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Originally Posted by Scythe O F Glory
DarkNecrid said that at 2:51, i got the update at like 5 something. I think he was referring to last nights update.
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Martin Firestorm
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Originally Posted by Bryant Again
I can prove to you one thing: removing inherent meaning from the game does not make it "better". Nor is making it more "fun".
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Faer
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Originally Posted by MarlinBackna
And SY! wasn't A-management, but one that you wanted to charge often.
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Kashrlyyk
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Originally Posted by Faer
You are terrible.
In fact, Evisc/DSlash Warriors not only out-DPS Ursan and have knockdown of their own, they also have the option of packing multiple utility skills including, but not limited to, the functionalities of interrupting and party-wide support, and can use all these other utility skills without having to drop a form and therefore kill their DPS. |
- There are no knock down skills in the axe or sword mastery, so you either talk about secondary class skills or PvE skills. With the exception of Whirlwind there are no skills useable by those warriors that knockdown several enemies.
- Ursan is just one skill. I can take seven more with me. So I can lay traps, cast wards etc, then pull and use Ursan. And I know that Stances, Enchantments don´t work.
Faer
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Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk
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Wait a tick. That's completely bonkers.
DarkNecrid
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| There are no knock down skills in the axe or sword mastery, so you either talk about secondary class skills or PvE skills. With the exception of Whirlwind there are no skills useable by those warriors that knockdown several enemies. |
seriously what is your point?
The Earth Shaker build can out dps ursan, knockdown in an AoE more times than Ursan, etc. Evis and DS aren't about AoE kds....because there's no point in doing an AoE KD with them.
Nightow
I wonder if they fixed our bonker heroes? (Out of game atm)
Feanixxx
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Originally Posted by Nightow
I wonder if they fixed our bonker heroes? (Out of game atm)
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StormDragonZ
So let's see how this affects me:
-Ranger might try Expert's Dexterity
-Mesmer might try Lyssa's Aura
-Elementalist might... well, being an Air Magic user... possibilities are much more compared to the Ranger and Mesmer.
-Warrior might... well, Delver skills might be used.
-Necromancer might think about using Life Transfer or Vampiric Spirit again...
PvE skills are definitely going to be looked over again...
-Ranger might try Expert's Dexterity
-Mesmer might try Lyssa's Aura
-Elementalist might... well, being an Air Magic user... possibilities are much more compared to the Ranger and Mesmer.
-Warrior might... well, Delver skills might be used.
-Necromancer might think about using Life Transfer or Vampiric Spirit again...
PvE skills are definitely going to be looked over again...
Nightow
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Originally Posted by Feanixxx
Just got out of FoW - nearly wiped several times cos overly-aggressive Heroes now run and get aggro from mobs nowhere near; it's impossible to sneak past groups. They even run ahead and get aggro when you are stood still viewing the scene. Worse than minions.
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Now fix mah Oggy, Anet! D:
Bug John
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Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk
There are no knock down skills in the axe or sword mastery, so you either talk about secondary class skills or PvE skills. With the exception of Whirlwind there are no skills useable by those warriors that knockdown several enemies.
Ursan is just one skill. I can take seven more with me. So I can lay traps, cast wards etc, then pull and use Ursan. And I know that Stances, Enchantments don´t work. |
You'll even have enough adrenal to use [save yourselves] between knockdowns.
Why would you want to knock down several enemies sometimes when you can disable the real dangerous one all the time ?
I'd take a sword warrior with [for great justice] [steelfang slash] [dragon slash] [save yourselves] [brawling headbutt] in my group over any ursan any day.
The rule is simple : save yourselves > anything else > pve.
Beeb beeb
Update - Friday, August 8, 2008
Bug Fixes
* Fixed a crash bug.
* Fixed a bug that caused abnormal Energy amounts to display during Observer Mode.
* Fixed a bug that caused Vampiric Spirit to give more Health regeneration than intended.
* Fixed a bug with Hero combat range.
Bug Fixes
* Fixed a crash bug.
* Fixed a bug that caused abnormal Energy amounts to display during Observer Mode.
* Fixed a bug that caused Vampiric Spirit to give more Health regeneration than intended.
* Fixed a bug with Hero combat range.
Nightow
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Originally Posted by Beeb beeb
Update - Friday, August 8, 2008
Bug Fixes .... * Fixed a bug with Hero combat range. |
Now maybe I can get back to 600/smite farming with ease.
Numa Pompilius
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Originally Posted by truemyths
How do you get the 66% chance? I would guess 10% chance x 8 = 80% for the group.
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The probability of at least one headshot = 1 - (probability of missing ^ number of tries) = 1 - (0.9 ^ 8) = 0.66.
EDIT: OK, that actually calculates to 0.57, not 0.66. That'll teach me to calculate stuff like that in my head.
Bryant Again
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Originally Posted by Martin Firestorm
Again, all subjective, not proof of anything...
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Providing methods that greatly cheapen the game are bad.
Providing methods that greatly reduce the effort required to play through the game are bad.
Providing methods that go against the core ideals of the game are bad.
You can pull the "subjective" card on me when you can prove that anything in the above are not bad ideas for Guild Wars.
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Originally Posted by Martin Firestorm
And not even the majority view based on my reading of this thread, for whatever that's worth.
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Nanood
Sounds mostly positive amongst people. A few whiners but there always is. Let's get on with it. There are new things to play with.
sindex
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Originally Posted by Beeb beeb
Update - Friday, August 8, 2008
Bug Fixes * Fixed a bug with Hero combat range. |
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Originally Posted by Nightow
Woohoo! They fixed Oggy! Thank you!
Now maybe I can get back to 600/smite farming with ease. |
Shakti
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Originally Posted by Faer
Sorry, I completely forgot that you aren't allowed to use the synergy that is built into the game in an effort to be efficient and win. My bad; be right back, removing everything from my bar that isn't in Sword or Axe Mastery. I suppose having to drop out of Ursan to use those other seven skills is better than having access to a full skillbar of utility at all times without letting your damage output suffer, and having a skillslot taken up by something that is useless 50% of the time is better than having 8 skills that are ready when and where they are needed. And wow, what was I ever thinking, bringing a team of 8 people into an area, each with different builds that supported and complemented each other when instead I could have brought 8 functionally identical and practically useless builds that only work together properly half of the time instead!
Wait a tick. That's completely bonkers. |
Oh wait....heh.
Resume
manitoba1073
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Originally Posted by Faer
Evisc/DSlash Warriors do more damage.
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Originally Posted by Arkantos
The skills weren't actually buffed, per say. They're more effective at low ranks now, but at max they're the same. Besides, I'd much rather have more effective PvE skills at lower ranks than ursan.
Oh, you're serious..  They removed energy degen, yes. All professions have same health and armor, yes. But that really doesn't matter, because you can no longer keep it up indefinitely. That one change is what makes it a nerf. Also, that damage is pathetic. Trying to justify ursan is still good by posting shitty DPS at the master of damage is really contradicting yourself. |
Numa Pompilius
The damage output was never the reason Ursan was uber. The extra armor, extra life, and massive damage mitigation through perma-AoE-knockdown and perma-weakness, and the fact that it could be played by a spastic vegetable, was. And still is.
Ursan can still be used much like it used to, but it can't be played mindlessly by mashing buttons any more - now you actually have to bring a build and coordinate a bit. So I guess it was a successful nerf really.
EDIT: I also now need to get a new avatar.
Ursan can still be used much like it used to, but it can't be played mindlessly by mashing buttons any more - now you actually have to bring a build and coordinate a bit. So I guess it was a successful nerf really.
EDIT: I also now need to get a new avatar.
Faer
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Originally Posted by manitoba1073
Always have and always will.
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Originally Posted by manitoba1073
you can run it almost indefinately
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Properly constructed normal teams will indefinitely provide better utility and damage than Ursan teams, while the Ursan teams now have to deal with almost indefinitely being able to do almost what they did before. Making them, logically and mathematically speaking, less effective than normal, balanced teams.
In Guild Wars, he who is more effective at what he does is the victor. Ursan is still usable, naturally, but it is no longer at the head of the Dumbpveteambuilds Snake.
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Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius
EDIT: I also now need to get a new avatar.
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trankle
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Originally Posted by manitoba1073
Always have and always will. I was showing that the damage output was still the same. Considering that is what most people only think about is pure output.
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manitoba1073
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Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius
The damage output was never the reason Ursan was uber. The extra armor, extra life, and massive damage mitigation through perma-AoE-knockdown and perma-weakness, and the fact that it could be played by a spastic vegetable, was. And still is.
Ursan can still be used much like it used to, but it can't be played mindlessly by mashing buttons any more - now you actually have to bring a build and coordinate a bit. So I guess it was a successful nerf really. EDIT: I also now need to get a new avatar. |
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Originally Posted by Faer
This is the key. Properly constructed normal teams will indefinitely provide better utility and damage than Ursan teams, while the Ursan teams now have to deal with almost indefinitely being able to do almost what they did before. Making them, logically and mathematically speaking, less effective than normal, balanced teams. In Guild Wars, he who is more effective at what he does is the victor. Ursan is still usable, naturally, but it is no longer at the head of the Dumbpveteambuilds Snake.Why not go back to your old one? It was decent. |
But hey, its gonna get even worse now on the descrimination. Heres the next phase- LFP must be r10 Norn r10 Ebon. give it a week and you will see.
Hows all that gold you made after the first nerf to Sf going for you from all those cheap ectos you bought.
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Originally Posted by trankle
Against a 60AL target. So against a level 20 caster in NM, yes, the damage is the same. Against a level 30 Warrior in HM DoA? Slightly less.
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when before they didnt.Quote:
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Originally Posted by R.Shayne
Haven't had this much fun since, well ever. I like this even better then before because I prefer to farm in hardmode and since they range attack means they don't scattering it is great.
Latest run was sweet, got another sapphire. I used a cupcake for up the hill so I could bring another damager but was totally useless so going back to dark escape. I am using the Perma Sin Sliver. |
Maybe I should show you my 5 boss run sometime. Gonna listen to my eurodance station when playing lol
Nevin
Flashing Blades = Perma Glad's Defense? I miss the old days of glad farming trolls... Whats the world come to?
Numa Pompilius
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Originally Posted by manitoba1073
Are you sure, 90% of the bitch was all about the power alone.
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A dslash build has always had higher dps than ursan, yet taking 5 dslashers and three healing monks into DoA HM is suicide. Because ursans power wasn't really about the dealing of damage, it was about not taking it.
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| Did you also miss the part where I said ppl who only brought UB in the first and not back up skills were retarded to begin with? |
manitoba1073
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Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius
Yeah, I know, but that's because people are morons.
A dslash build has always had higher dps than ursan, yet taking 5 dslashers and three healing monks into DoA HM is suicide. Because ursans power wasn't really about the dealing of damage, it was about not taking it. Yeah... In theory I agree, but in practice I hardly ever ended up using my back up skillset. I brung it, but I might as well not have. Ursan only ran out if I got hit by multiple power drains. |
Exactly. Its still gonna be the same only now people are gonna require even more than just UB to be allowed in groups. As cons and that still effect UB once they are in UB and are not removed from the group.
Its better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.
It was from the high armor for wars that helped reduce the damage that the bonus was comming from. now all the classes have the same armor.
DreamRunner
Way of the master buff, but no nerf to wounding strike?
MrGuildBoi
^Way of the Master buffed? when?
EbilCat
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Originally Posted by moriz
two words:
MINION BOMBER |
Pretty bad skill change when looking at it from a player controlled MM's perspective.
fenix
Re; Ebon Sniper percentages. Stop trying to add them all together. The percentage of hitting is 8x 10%. It's ONLY 8x10%. None of this 66% or 80% to hit, it doesn't add up over the 8. It's still just 8x10% to hit. Which is still bad. If you had 8 necros doing bspike you'd kill HEAPS faster than Ebon Sniper, and in fact if you used most balanced builds you'd kill faster as well.
Ursan is dead, give up. There's no point running it.
But you see, IF you had 5x Dslash and 3 monks, you'd have at least 2 copies of SY with you, then another 3 warriors to bring Utilities on. Far more defense than an Ursan build, as you're taking 85% less damage, and have base armor of at least 100 on all the Warriors.
Ursan is dead, give up. There's no point running it.
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Originally Posted by Numa Pompilis
A dslash build has always had higher dps than ursan, yet taking 5 dslashers and three healing monks into DoA HM is suicide. Because ursans power wasn't really about the dealing of damage, it was about not taking it.
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Master Ketsu
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Originally Posted by MrGuildBoi
^Way of the Master buffed? when?
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Ultra Mega
And it has just been changed to only work with daggers.
Arkantos
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| That is what outweighs the the nerf to UB and yes you can run it almost indefinately now and its even better for the reason I mention. Maybe if you and a few others around werent so full fail, You might have notice that part. It was a big buff to UB. |
It can no longer be kept up indefinitely, it used to be able to be kept up indefinitely. It also does a lot less damage in the long run, with the armor ignoring to slashing damage nerf.
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| Ursan is dead, give up. There's no point running it. |
R.Shayne
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Originally Posted by manitoba1073
HM is always fun
Maybe I should show you my 5 boss run sometime. Gonna listen to my eurodance station when playing lol |
It has been taking me 50+ minutes and I think some are hitting the one hour mark so it will probably not be a popular farm since it breaks the 30 minute rule and that might actually save the ecto price. Now I just got to work out a way to get obsidian shards to go with my ecto.
One of the things I really like is the narrow gap between rank 7 and rank 10 in the PvE only skills.
I never had a problem with long farms and UW adds a little variety.
I would really like to see the boss farm.
IGN for Assassin is: Sinafay Abaeir
Avarre
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Originally Posted by Kashrlyyk
Are you unable to answer normaly to a post??
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Now, I don't know about the rest of the mods doing work here, but personally I'm rather tired of misinformation and bad concepts being thrown around. This is a site for information and, in theory, quality assistance, not for crap.
This thread is for discussion on the update and balance implications. Not 'casual' theorycraft on issues that don't relate to balance whatsoever. I don't see much reason in me not ordering all moderators to outright ban users that do not comply with the basic outline of discussion and a basic level of quality if they wish to attempt to contribute.
You are warned. All of you.
Magikarp
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Originally Posted by manitoba1073
That is what outweighs the the nerf to UB and yes you can run it almost indefinately now and its even better for the reason I mention. Maybe if you and a few others around werent so full fail, You might have notice that part. It was a big buff to UB.
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Originally Posted by Avarre
Be honest with us: is this your way of saying you don't understand the basic ideas Faer outlined?
Now, I don't know about the rest of the mods doing work here, but personally I'm rather tired of misinformation and bad concepts being thrown around. This is a site for information and, in theory, quality assistance, not for crap. This thread is for discussion on the update and balance implications. Not 'casual' theorycraft on issues that don't relate to balance whatsoever. I don't see much reason in me not ordering all moderators to outright ban users that do not comply with the basic outline of discussion and a basic level of quality if they wish to attempt to contribute. You are warned. All of you. |
as for the updates, im REALLY shocked at the responsive reaction to WotA, and i love the balances, even if a few of them still keep the skills at a so-so level.. at least they're usable
FalconDance
So far, I'd say the changes are for the better over all. Sniper was rather fun to run last night.
Flashing Blades was *annoying* as all hell to come up against, especially using Volley/Barrage! And their damage kick-back was considerably higher than what is posted (but not within critical range, I don't think). Not too sure why, going to have to ponder.
The hero monks did seem to Heal a little more effectively (as in, not use skills when un-necessary).
But we ran into a completely baffling problem I have never seen before. I was helping friends with Vizunah (Local). The foreign "team" was all hench. Everyone made it through the initial battle with no trouble. We joined and defeated the next bunch of Afflicted easily. Then the hench team took off to parts unknown, and we never saw them again! I teased they were taking the back way to the foe, but .........
Flashing Blades was *annoying* as all hell to come up against, especially using Volley/Barrage! And their damage kick-back was considerably higher than what is posted (but not within critical range, I don't think). Not too sure why, going to have to ponder.
The hero monks did seem to Heal a little more effectively (as in, not use skills when un-necessary).
But we ran into a completely baffling problem I have never seen before. I was helping friends with Vizunah (Local). The foreign "team" was all hench. Everyone made it through the initial battle with no trouble. We joined and defeated the next bunch of Afflicted easily. Then the hench team took off to parts unknown, and we never saw them again! I teased they were taking the back way to the foe, but .........
AJD
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Originally Posted by Miss Drops Az
Seems like someone who only sees nerfs and not buffs (glass half empty always?)
I also know a lot of people who QQ but then buy the next chapter so your point is? I truly believe that very few people know what they will do until GW2 is a month before being on the shelves and we all have a better idea of what the game is about. That applies to every game, unless you have the telepathy interface on your computer..... |
The game is dead but the few hardcore whiners.
He who yells the loudest gets his way.
[edit]I was leaning heavily towards GW2 whenever they deign to release it (giving them 5 more years at the rate that info is being released) but now it is Diablo 3 all the way and no looking back.
Anet sure shot themselves in the foot, have fun being bankrupt, idiots.