Update 21st August 08 - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Ec]-[oMaN

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Toronto, Ont.

[DT][pT][jT][Grim][Nion]

W/

22 Aug 2008 at 17:30 - 281

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr_stealth

If the solution to everything OP'd is to nerf it into the ground, its only a matter of time before the nerf cycle comes full circle. Once everything is nerfed, all that left is the same imbalance, just at a lower power level.

Rather have many skills at a lower power level with multi function, than tons at a higher power level, TBH everything released post Prophecies had little to no thought behind it, nor took into account power levels, at least PvP based, we all know that this PvP/PvE skill separation could have occurred 2 years back yet it didn't.

shoogi

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2007

Ray

22 Aug 2008 at 17:30 - 282

And he still hasn't done anything about Wounding Strike and damage stacks.

mr_stealth

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2006

I Gots A Crayon[Blue]

Mo/Me

22 Aug 2008 at 18:06 - 283

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ec]-[oMaN

Rather have many skills at a lower power level with multi function, than tons at a higher power level

I guess I chose a poor way of wording that. Yes, I think you are right. That would end a lot of OP'd spikes. What I was getting at is how it would just change the builds being played back to what was popular 2-3 years ago at the start of the "nerf cycle". Still leaving a few builds being better than the rest, and therefore overly popular instead of having an actual balance between skills.

And I do agree that the PvE/PvP split should have been done a long time ago. The two are so different that a skill can be obscenely OP'd in one, but completely useless in the other. Having changes made to both is nice because it keeps things fresh, but its a shame to see a skill killed because it was OP'd in an unrelated part of the game.

hellcast

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2008

Portugal

Mystic Spiral

Mo/E

22 Aug 2008 at 18:09 - 284

it's their wording and how they justify their balances that bugs me.

Quote:

Because of the higher cast time on Water Magic spells, fast-casting Mesmer/Elementalist were favored over primary Elementalists in competitive play. To shift the balance back toward primary Elementalists, we've increased the importance of a high Water Magic attribute for two key spells: Glowing Ice and Icy Shackles.

let me just understand this they balanced because mesmers were using this more than primary elementalists?there are two professions per toon it's just being smart to find ways to combine them. but okay this might have been OP but that justification....

Quote:

Smiter's Boon Monks have had a negative impact on gameplay in Team Arenas and Guild Battles.

Quote:

No one cares about RA smiter monks, or smiters in AB. This was a nerf for GvG and TA, and was done expediently, as opposed to the agonizingly slow drawn out process it normally is.

i don't even want to hear competitive elitists on this. but there are more types of pvp, just because they are not "competitive enough" doesn't mean they should be overlooked.this is a whole game not GvG and TA or HA.

In the near future there are going to be GvG skills only.lool

Quote:

We recognize that the changes to this skill will essentially remove it from play. In the future, we may consider whether or not there is an incarnation of this skill that would be viable but balanced. For now, we do not expect it to see serious use.

again with the way they justify themselves. Of course you don't expect to see serious use, you killed it. Although you may consider ;P

Snow Bunny

Alcoholic From Yale

Join Date: Jul 2007

Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]

22 Aug 2008 at 18:20 - 285

Quote:

Originally Posted by hellcast

let me just understand this they balanced because mesmers were using this more than primary elementalists?there are two professions per toon it's just being smart to find ways to combine them. but okay this might have been OP but that justification....

It's difficult to powerblock a water ele that fast casts everything.

Quote:

i don't even want to hear competitive elitists on this. but there are more types of pvp, just because they are not "competitive enough" doesn't mean they should be overlooked.this is a whole game not GvG and TA or HA.

Well, when the competitive formats are wrecked by stupid OP'd stuff, it's best that the seriously casual formats take a slight hit where no one even used those builds anyway. Smiters in AB and RA were altogether quite uncommon.

Echoman, I completely agree

Ec]-[oMaN

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2005

Toronto, Ont.

[DT][pT][jT][Grim][Nion]

W/

22 Aug 2008 at 18:20 - 286

"Because of the higher cast time on Water Magic spells, fast-casting Mesmer/Elementalist were favored over primary Elementalists in competitive play. To shift the balance back toward primary Elementalists, we've increased the importance of a high Water Magic attribute for two key spells: Glowing Ice and Icy Shackles."

I find it funny how they actually recognized why people are using fast cast water eles instead of Ele primary, but how they tweaked the skills doesn't deter anyone from using a Mes/E. No change they could have done really without totally nerfing water skills, except maybe link attunes to e storage, fast casting apply to only mesmer skills, or hit steam/glyph immolation making the bar less effective at shutting down frontline.

Dr Strangelove

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Dec 2005

Wasting away again in Margaritaville

[HOTR]

22 Aug 2008 at 19:16 - 287

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Izzy is pressed for time and has a group of other balancers to contend with when balancing skills. Smiter's Boon was seriously wrecking GvG and TA, and with the imperative for a balance at the threshold and not enough time to properly do it, it's best that he did what he did.

I can't speak for GvG, but in no way was this a quick fix for TA. Smiter's boon monks in one form or another have been pretty common since reversal of damage was buffed back in March. They filled the void made by the loss of HC monks, everybody loves super spam time.

I didn't much see the smiters as a major balance problem in TA, since they were very easily defeated by common templates - magebane rangers teabag their energy management, power block mesmers hit them really hard, plague sending necros can vastly overwhelm their condition/hex removal, and shattering sins will end the match in under 2 minutes. I'm sure the AoE is a bit more powerful in 8v8, but I can't say I've specced any matches with them.

RaO is still broken and still needs another kick in the teeth. Slightly nerfing a non-critical skill in the build does nothing, particularly when scavenger's strike was just buffed.

Besides, if Izzy really cared about TA, gothspike would have died a horrible death a long time ago.

illidan009

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2008

Volterra, Italy

A/

22 Aug 2008 at 19:51 - 288

What are you noobs talking about smiter's boon is perfectly usable :P
jk of course...LOL at the nerf!

a-kyle

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2008

A/R

22 Aug 2008 at 21:31 - 289

Ok let me start off by thanking A-net for doing the most important updates i can ever think of when it comes to AI characters. I was sick of running away from a tuff battle and my henchys staying behind untill I was off the radar and then following. I was sick of them rushing ahead off the map for re's that would apear and then dissapear and I was sick of my Ai's and heros running circles around me.

I just wanted to say that thats probably the best update ever

Kumu Honua

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2008

22 Aug 2008 at 22:11 - 290

Quote:

Originally Posted by a-kyle

Ok let me start off by thanking A-net for doing the most important updates i can ever think of when it comes to AI characters. I was sick of running away from a tuff battle and my henchys staying behind untill I was off the radar and then following. I was sick of them rushing ahead off the map for re's that would apear and then dissapear and I was sick of my Ai's and heros running circles around me.

I just wanted to say that thats probably the best update ever

Best AI update? They gave them lobotomy's. Didn't fix it. Made it worse!

Kook~NBK~

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2005

A little chalet outside Drok's

Natural Born Killaz

22 Aug 2008 at 22:22 - 291

Quote:

Originally Posted by a-kyle

Ok let me start off by thanking A-net for doing the most important updates i can ever think of when it comes to AI characters. I was sick of running away from a tuff battle and my henchys staying behind untill I was off the radar and then following. I was sick of them rushing ahead off the map for re's that would apear and then dissapear and I was sick of my Ai's and heros running circles around me.

I just wanted to say that thats probably the best update ever

I haven't yet been in a tough battle that I needed to retreat from since this last update, but if H/H's are breaking off attacks when the player runs away, that's a good thing (unless they stop fighting when the player is just kiting - have to test that and see what happens. I get too lazy to kite sometimes - LOL). It's also a good thing that Melee types don't seem to be running pell-mell off to battle halfway across the map. BUT!!! The problems that are now showing up with casters is really messed up! (See thread regarding bad H/H behavior for details)

Age

Hall Hero

Join Date: Jul 2005

California Canada/BC

STG Administrator

Mo/

22 Aug 2008 at 22:30 - 292

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Who's going to use a skill that has a 90 second recharge and costs 25e on a monk?

No one as you can get a coffee in less time it takes to recharge and maybe something else.

The AI update is nice though they are going after things more like their old selves agian.

Nanood

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Supermans Crystal Palace

Legion Of The Dark Sun

22 Aug 2008 at 22:30 - 293

• Updated the AI for Heroes and henchmen to fix an issue that caused them to occasionally become confused and run in circles.

ROFL.. Occasionally become confused lol
ROFL even harder .. Run in circles OMG that is sooo funny

Hope the hench updates tidy them up a little.

Smiters Boon - Can't claim to care since never used it.

Nerf them.. Nerf them hard.

Kumu Honua

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2008

22 Aug 2008 at 22:35 - 294

Just had a new build. Maybe they fixed the AI again.

Edit:

Quote:

Update - Friday August 22
Bug Fix

* Fixed a bug that caused Heroes outside of combat to not use skills with a long casting time.

The problem wasn't long casting times. Even 1 second was too long for them.

Editedit: After testing. Things are back to normal AI wise as far as I can tell. Gotta check the fleeing and such. See if that is still better or reverted.

Editeditedit: It also now seems that Heroes will continue casting even if you are on the move. My ritualist is stopping to drop spirits whenever it refreshes. Minion bomber is chain casting jagged/death nova. Leaving them far behind the pack as they stop to recast things immediatly =/

Kula

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2005

West Coast, USA

Mo/E

22 Aug 2008 at 22:38 - 295

Quote:

Originally Posted by free_fall

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kumu Honua

It doesn't matter if he has zero current minions out of 10 available, full energy, and standing on top of 5 unexploited corpses.

I am this exact same problem. Olias will not raise minions after combat ends. e can be standing by several corpses wth a full energy bar and he just stands there until the corpses vanish.

Same here. MM heroes are a pain now. Have to micromanage them.

Lycan Nibbler

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2006

AZ

22 Aug 2008 at 22:42 - 296

Are peoples heros still following targets for large distances? I had some on guard today in HB and they literally followed a fleeing target for over half of the map (almost 3/4 actually). Considering that target wasnt actually attacking (it was capping) this still seems bugged IMHO.

Kula

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jun 2005

West Coast, USA

Mo/E

22 Aug 2008 at 22:49 - 297

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kumu Honua

Just had a new build. Maybe they fixed the AI again.

Looks like the MM heros summon minions just fine now. Thanks Anet.

Edit:

But now there is another thing, and this occurs when there are no enemies around. When an MM hero, that has low-life minions, is out range it can waste its energy within seconds when it tries to cast Death Nova and quickly cancels the cast motion several times in succession. This happens when the entire party is walking off in one direction and the MM hero is behind everyone trying to catch up. It's like it can't decided whether to cast Death Nova or follow the party.

Cast Death Nova --> cancel --> Cast Death Nova --> cancel --> Cast Death Nova --> Cancel -- etc. [ MM hero's energy bar is depleted within seconds]

But this isn't a big inconvenience since I can just disable Death Nova. I can live with it.

Zahr Dalsk

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Aug 2007

Canada

22 Aug 2008 at 22:55 - 298

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Smiters in AB and RA were altogether quite uncommon.

This. And they tended to suck in RA and AB anyways.

mr_stealth

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2006

I Gots A Crayon[Blue]

Mo/Me

22 Aug 2008 at 23:00 - 299

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kumu Honua

Minion bomber is chain casting jagged/death nova. Leaving them far behind the pack as they stop to recast things immediatly =/

Was just testing this myself. Master of Whispers stood around casting as usual while I walked away, but started to repeatedly break his death nova casts once I put about 1 full bubble between us. He would still complete BotM/jagged casts at this distance though. Even when he was completely off my radar, MoW was still standing in the same spot casting nova/jagged.

cebalrai

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Mar 2007

Mature Gaming Association

Me/E

25 Aug 2008 at 02:16 - 300

Why don't they just fix pve instead of trying to "fix" skills? Really... we've been playing against the same horrible AI for ages.

I guess the answer is that Anet has 50% abandoned GW and doesn't want to spend any resources making parts of it suck less. So it's just band-aids on top of band-aids on top of band-aids.

Bug John

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

25 Aug 2008 at 10:01 - 301

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ec]-[oMaN

I find it funny how they actually recognized why people are using fast cast water eles instead of Ele primary, but how they tweaked the skills doesn't deter anyone from using a Mes/E. No change they could have done really without totally nerfing water skills, except maybe link attunes to e storage, fast casting apply to only mesmer skills, or hit steam/glyph immolation making the bar less effective at shutting down frontline.

qft

moving attunements to energy storage may have been a good way to make energy storage a better primary attribute than fast casting for water magic

maybe they could have increased the cost of icy shakles too (directly, or decreasing duration and recharge)