Update 21st August 08 - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

UnChosen

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Mar 2006

21 Aug 2008 at 21:11 - 201

From developer updates"

"Smiter's Boon is a key skill in smite-heavy PvP teams that were generally overpowered and which too strongly discouraged the use of hexes and conditions. Their combination of healing, damage, and removal invalidated a lot of alternative builds within Team Arenas and has had a negative impact on GvG combat.

We recognize that the changes to this skill will essentially remove it from play. In the future, we may consider whether or not there is an incarnation of this skill that would be viable but balanced. For now, we do not expect it to see serious use. "

Bolded part is what I feared, they might not ever buff it to a point where it can even be used in RA/FA/alliance battle. And there's a high chance it won't, just look at all the other nerfed smite skills sitting there doing nothing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Sorry, but heals of 85 aren't much? Along with the mitigation, damage and spammability of Reversal of Damage?

Whatever you're smoking, it must be good stuff.

I said a SINGLE smiter's boon monk in a later post. Its only truly overpowered when there are a lot of them.

The Meth

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

R/

21 Aug 2008 at 21:15 - 202

Anyone with half a brain should know [Smiter's Boon] was overpowered just from the skill concept. It allowed a normally damage based attribute to heal effectively at the same time. Want to blind that warrior? Sorry, you are actually helping the other team because now they can smite that off. lulz.

The change itself does seem more like izzy had totally forgotten about nerfing it up until the last minute and instead of thinking what would be a suitable change he just flipped and thought something along the lines of "'ah hell lets just bury it under 100 feet of shit". As it is right now Smiter's Boon may be the first skill to actually be less useful then an unused skill slot. Might as well go into PvP with a signet of capture.

FrAnt1c??

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2007

Belgium

Legion Of Sacred Light [LSL]

Mo/

21 Aug 2008 at 21:15 - 203

Quote:

Originally Posted by UnChosen

From developer updates"

"Smiter's Boon is a key skill in smite-heavy PvP teams that were generally overpowered and which too strongly discouraged the use of hexes and conditions. Their combination of healing, damage, and removal invalidated a lot of alternative builds within Team Arenas and has had a negative impact on GvG combat.

We recognize that the changes to this skill will essentially remove it from play. In the future, we may consider whether or not there is an incarnation of this skill that would be viable but balanced. For now, we do not expect it to see serious use. "

Bolded part is what I feared, they might not ever buff it to a point where it can even be used in RA/FA/alliance battle. And there's a high chance it won't, just look at all the other nerfed smite skills sitting there doing nothing.

I said a SINGLE smiter's boon monk in a later post. Its only truly overpowered when there are a lot of them.

Wait, so if you make the skill description something like: "There can only be one copy of this skill in your team" makes it "balanced"?

Winterclaw

Wark!!!

Join Date: May 2005

Florida

W/

21 Aug 2008 at 21:16 - 204

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera Lure

Anet needs to learn to balance hopefully before GW2 comes out. Clearly they know how to nerf and buff, but they lack subtlety and too many skills fall into oblivion or rise to overuse.

I think it'd be more likely that half of the shut-ins that play GW will get a date with an actual member of the opposite sex before that happens.

Anyways, I think it would have been better if they upped the recharge a little on smiters boon and then limited the number of spells it would work with. Either that or completely change the functionality.

FrAnt1c??

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2007

Belgium

Legion Of Sacred Light [LSL]

Mo/

21 Aug 2008 at 21:18 - 205

Yes propably, + recharge and + casting time would have been better, easier to interupt and if you remove the enchant it takes longer for the smiter to re-enchant himself...

Daf

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2007

Vlaanderen

Trinity Of the Ascended [ToA]

E/

21 Aug 2008 at 21:21 - 206

Quote:

Originally Posted by C. Seer

• Updated the AI for Heroes and henchmen to fix an issue that caused them to occasionally become confused and run in circles.

I laughed so hard with that.

pretty good update

Abedeus

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jan 2007

Niflheim

R/

21 Aug 2008 at 21:23 - 207

I think most of the people telling "nerf was needed" are forgetting one thing.

Balancing - okay.

STOMPING IT TO THE GROUND WITH 15 TON HAMMER IS WRONG. And then kicking it and tearing off it's limbs also.

They could just make it so recharge was, like, 35 seconds. So with +20% enchanting you would have a duration/recharge ratio almost 1:1 instead of 3:1. Or raise energy to 10. Or cast time to 1 second + 20 seconds recharge. I mean, come on - making a skill 270 times weaker IS EXTREMELY STUPID.

Snow Bunny

Alcoholic From Yale

Join Date: Jul 2007

Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]

21 Aug 2008 at 21:25 - 208

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

STOMPING IT TO THE GROUND WITH 15 TON HAMMER IS WRONG. And then kicking it and tearing off it's limbs also.

You're right Abedeus. We should have stomped it into the ground with a 90 TON hammer, 90 to represent each second of its recharge. Besides kicking it and tearing off its limbs, we then should have fed it to pittbulls.

I propose it inflicts exhaustion as well.

Taurucis

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2006

The edge of reason

I don't play any more.

W/E

21 Aug 2008 at 21:26 - 209

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

So to all of you saying that this nerf was unnecessary, no u.

It's not that the nerf was unnecessary, it's more like they went overboard. As a lot of people say... they took an OP'ed skill, and turned it into garbage, instead of turning it into something neither OP'ed, and neither garbage.

The Meth

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

R/

21 Aug 2008 at 21:29 - 210

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

I think most of the people telling "nerf was needed" is forgetting one thing.

Balancing - okay.

STOMPING IT TO THE GROUND WITH 15 TON HAMMER IS WRONG. And then kicking it and tearing off it's limbs also.

They could just make it so recharge was, like, 35 seconds. So with +20% enchanting you would have a duration/recharge ratio almost 1:1 instead of 3:1. Or raise energy to 10. Or cast time to 1 second + 20 seconds recharge. I mean, come on - making a skill 270 times weaker IS EXTREMELY STUPID.

Yes, it was harsh. But its MUCH worse for the game to have 1 skill overpowered then to have 1 skill underpowered. I'm pretty sure izzy will try to make it less worthless later, but right now he didn't want to mess around testing and possibly leave it still overpowered and abused for PvP. So nerf it into the ground for now and buff its was back up later.

Most of the nerfs you listed would make almost no difference btw. It would still leave it overpowered. Energy wasn't a problem, the monks can spend 5 more any time. Recharge doesn't matter as long as you have 1:1 because you can pretty much prevent any stripping of enchants by covering yourself up a few times. 1s cast time wouldn't help much as far as interrupts go because its self target, any monk could take 5 steps back out of interrupt range and cast it.

Abedeus

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jan 2007

Niflheim

R/

21 Aug 2008 at 21:30 - 211

Quote:

I propose it inflicts exhaustion as well.

Meh, I already proposed it. Then skill would be 2700 times weaker.

Quote:

It's not that the nerf was unnecessary, it's more like they went overboard. As a lot of people say... they took an OP'ed skill, and turned it into garbage, instead of turning it into something neither OP'ed, and neither garbage.

It's called BALANCED. Not OP and not garbage = balanced skill. I know, it's hard to remember that word, seeing as almost nothing is balanced out correctly except for some old old skills like Eviscerate or Restore Conditions...

Quote:

Recharge doesn't matter as long as you have 1:1 because you can pretty much prevent any stripping of enchants by covering yourself up a few times.

Shattering Sin says hi, Pain of Disenchantment, Strip Enchantments, Rend Enchantments say hallo too. I mean, a half decent mesmer would shatter it as soon as monk puts it up. I mean, monks DON'T have infinite energy to cover themselves with 6 enchantments.

How about 1:1 and 10 energy? Then it would be...decent. I mean monk can't spam 10 energy skills all the time, can he.

MagmaRed

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Mar 2007

Our Crabs Know True [LOVE]

R/

21 Aug 2008 at 21:30 - 212

I'd think a 30 second duration is fine. To 'balance' it, make the recharge 45 seconds. This would mean even if it wasn't removed, it wouldn't be up at all time. If it was removed, it would be down for a LONG time. Smiting having a support role was a great idea. I loved the skill when it was first introduced, as it allowed someone to deal some decent damage while still providing team support. Maybe bump the energy cost to 10, or 15 at most, and increase cast time to 1 second, 2 at most.

Or, to stick with Izzy's nerf strategy, make it like the old Healer's Boon. Maintained enchantment that cut into the enegry regen. Only works for x number of spells, and then ends the enchantment. With a cut in energy regen, it would be harder to spam spells, and with it ending after a small number of uses, it would need to be reapplied frequently.

I see a LOT of possible nerfs that would still make it useable, and some which would give an easy PvE/PvP split that would still work nicely.

Winterclaw

Wark!!!

Join Date: May 2005

Florida

W/

21 Aug 2008 at 21:34 - 213

But appearently they wanted it to be garbage Taurucis and took the easy way out. Why? I have no clue.

Axagoth Baal

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2006

Not your business.

Guardiani di Tyria

Mo/

21 Aug 2008 at 21:36 - 214

Smiter's Boon needed some nerf. RaO Ranger teams were too powerful. But this is too much and completely eliminates the skill from the game. I'd rather see a smaller nerf to S. Boon and a little nerf to RaO. The whole build would be a bit without making a skill useless.

Anyway I'm sure it's not a perma-update, at least about the boon.

Bocjo Bassannn

Academy Page

Join Date: Aug 2006

Texas

Pervs R Us {pErV}

Mo/Me

21 Aug 2008 at 21:36 - 215

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrAnt1c²

Wait, so if you make the skill description something like: "There can only be one copy of this skill in your team" makes it "balanced"?

Carefull I made this suggestion along with several others in a post earlier in this thread that was removed without so much as a pm as to why from some random guru mod that obviously didnt take his/her happy pill today......

I totaly agree... in fact I went a step farther... in pvp areas why not simply restrict the number of any character class on a team. Would that not also eliminate tons and tons of the overpowered combos that have been a source for such huge debates over the last few years?

I wonder how overpowered a team would be if you were not allowed more than one character class of any type to any match in any pvp area?...... Imagine having to use .... 1 monk... 1 rit and 1 para just to keep your team up in ha..... I all the sudden see skill meaning something .... and build wars screeching to a halt.... But hey if your gonna dream dream big right......

cgruber

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2007

Tryst of Vengenance [ToV]

Mo/Me

21 Aug 2008 at 21:37 - 216

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

Let me put this out to you all, because it's quite apparent that a lot of you don't understand the nerf.

If any of you have been GvGing at all recently, you would have come into contact with this skill and hate it dearly.

With the build it was in, it allowed for 4 monks to smite off damage from RaO axe rangers spamming deep wound and interrupts, normally inevitably eating up small prots and interrupting key skills.

You couldn't use condition pressure or conditions at all; the monks would smite it off for a lot of damage (80+). You couldn't overload them with hexes; the same would happen.

All the while, your midline, so responsible for opening the way for damage on the opposite team, was useless. If your warrior opened up with attacks, he'd frenzy and have Reversal of Damage and god-knows-what-else smite skills blow him up.

It was terrible and boring to play against.

So to all of you saying that this nerf was unnecessary, no u.

I have played against quite a few times in recent weeks but all it takes is a rend to destroy any healing potential those monks had. Theres a reason they run quad monk, it's because they heal for shit. I'm not saying smiter's boon didn't deserve a nerf to some degree, hell simply putting a 60 second recharge on it would be quite effective.

Sai Rith

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2006

W/

21 Aug 2008 at 21:39 - 217

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winterclaw

But appearently they wanted it to be garbage Taurucis and took the easy way out. Why? I have no clue.

No, they wanted it to be garbage until the monthly ends. As stated numerous times, Smiter's Boon was OP, and caused an IMBA mix of Offense AND Defense, all due to ONE skill. Regarding that and the new meta change (thanks to gvG updates by Izzy <3), Smiter's Boon was common skill, and a game-breaking one. The upcoming monthly was probably gonna involve many Smiters. With that being said, Izzy did the right move to fix it. After the monthly, I am sure positive (99.9% sure to be exact), it will be tampered with, so it will be balanced, or at least usable to an extent.

Nude Nira

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jan 2008

inside a tanning bed

It's Raining Fame Hallelujah 【傘回傘】

Me/

21 Aug 2008 at 21:47 - 218

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spazzer

We could make a shovespike guild!

Team Apathy already did that...and they lost. If they had won, probally a different story.

The Meth

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

R/

21 Aug 2008 at 21:48 - 219

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abedeus

Shattering Sin says hi, Pain of Disenchantment, Strip Enchantments, Rend Enchantments say hallo too. I mean, a half decent mesmer would shatter it as soon as monk puts it up. I mean, monks DON'T have infinite energy to cover themselves with 6 enchantments.

How about 1:1 and 10 energy? Then it would be...decent. I mean monk can't spam 10 energy skills all the time, can he.

If you are against 1 monk, sure. How are you gonna stop 3-4+ monks? Is your hypothetical team half mesmers? I think a monk could still upkeep it with reduced time and 10 energy, remember they have castigation signet, which would basically make the cast free every 15 seconds. I'm sure we will be testing changes such as that a few weeks from now, but for the time being Izzy decided the skill needed to go.

Crimso

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2006

PCformatforums[PCFF]

Me/Mo

21 Aug 2008 at 21:51 - 220

I think it was a badly designed skill to begin with, it was more valued in the smiting builds than the elite skills used. Smiters Boon itself qualifies as an elite skill in my opinion since it was basically a smiting version of healers boon with a slightly different effect.

Windf0rce

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jan 2007

21 Aug 2008 at 21:58 - 221

Epic indeed, I had to triple check if I was missing something on the update to Smiter's Boon.

They could've simply moved it to PvE-only. The PvP version is TOTALLY useless, I didn't think a skill would be so hardly nerfed in GW, but it has happened.

around

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

Aussie Trolling Crew - Diplomatic Embassy

I Have Three Pennies [Pnny] - forever in my heart <3

R/

21 Aug 2008 at 22:23 - 222

Because it's only 1 day until the mAT and Izzy hasn't got the time to RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO around with numbers.

Otherwise the mAT would have been a sad, slow, soul-destroying affair (even more than it normally is).

Taurucis

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2006

The edge of reason

I don't play any more.

W/E

21 Aug 2008 at 22:25 - 223

Wait, the mAT is tommorow? Time to figure out how to do the Xunlai House voting stuff...

I seriously don't think it takes a day to figure out how to balance one skill. There are many better ways to fix Smiter's Boon that make it unusable.

Tearz1993

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2007

Relentless Aggressors [rA]

R/Mo

21 Aug 2008 at 22:26 - 224

Quote:

Originally Posted by around

Because it's only 1 day until the mAT

Uhh it's in 9 days actually.

Cale Roughstar

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

Canada

Guy In Real Life [GIRL]

W/E

21 Aug 2008 at 22:33 - 225

At first I was like... "meh, tiny update"

And then I saw smiter's boon get wiped of the face of the earth, and I lol'ed.

Solas

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2006

Ireland

Currently LF Active HA Guild, Glad 2, Comm.3, R2

E/

21 Aug 2008 at 22:34 - 226

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taurucis

Wait, the mAT is tommorow? Time to figure out how to do the Xunlai House voting stuff...

omg i forgot about it too, Thanks for the heads up

..oh and the smiters boon thing, glad to see it gone, pretty imba-.-

Zuggy

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2005

Pocatello, Idaho

Team FahQ

R/Me

21 Aug 2008 at 22:36 - 227

I'll admit that SM monk was overpowered, but wtf, does Izzy have some sort of hatred for smiting? Did he get beaten by a Priest as a child and the Priest said he was smiting him? The smiting line is completely useless and when someone comes up with a way to make it useful they put away the nerf bat and pull out the tactical nuclear nerf.

NOTE: I will not say what I said when I found out, I'll get banned from the forums

around

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

Aussie Trolling Crew - Diplomatic Embassy

I Have Three Pennies [Pnny] - forever in my heart <3

R/

21 Aug 2008 at 22:40 - 228

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tearz1993

Uhh it's in 9 days actually.

So sue me, it's late and I've been away for a while.

wilebill

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2005

Mt Vernon, Ohio

Band of the Hawk

W/Mo

21 Aug 2008 at 22:45 - 229

Smiter's Boon rerolled to Spiter's Smittoon! Ha Ha! Love the humor in this game.

Master Fuhon

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2006

21 Aug 2008 at 22:54 - 230

Smiter's Boon nerf was not overkill compared to how powerful the Divine Favor/Smite mechanic is. Better one skill gets nerfed rather than 4-5 smite skills (divine favor probably should be also, it benefits quick recharge 5 energy spells way too much). I have to agree with the comments of this skill having the capability of a PvE only elite.

Any less of a nerf and I would still be worried about monks taking over pvp. The combination of nerfs ends up completely taking the skill out of play, while lesser ones may not have done enough. The impact of the short duration and long recharge can be reduced with Glyph of Renewal. And get some help from a Motivation Paragon (Lyric of Zeal on Castigation Signet, Aria of Zeal; in a multiple smiter build) to pay for the energy cost. That can still be done to help fuel Zealot's Fire spam (smite monks may still need more nerfs anyway), but at least the healing capabilities have been reduced from this change.

Shayne Hawke

Departed from Tyria

Join Date: May 2007

Clan Dethryche [dth]

R/

21 Aug 2008 at 22:59 - 231

Quote:

Originally Posted by C. Seer

Update - 21 August 2008

AI Updates
• Updated the AI for Heroes and henchmen to fix an issue that caused them to sometimes attack enemy targets from too far away.
• Updated the AI for Heroes and henchmen to improve their ability to recognize when their leader is fleeing from combat.
• Updated the AI for Heroes and henchmen to fix an issue that caused them to occasionally become confused and run in circles.

lawl.

Otherwise, I'll be interested in going back to vanquish something sometime and hope the AI doesn't suck balls anymore.

o rite, and the Smiter's Boon nerf was stupid.

Kook~NBK~

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2005

A little chalet outside Drok's

Natural Born Killaz

21 Aug 2008 at 23:04 - 232

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke

lawl.

Otherwise, I'll be interested in going back to vanquish something sometime and hope the AI doesn't suck balls anymore.

Devona & other melee types work much better now. Support type casters, including MM Heroes, seem to be more broken than ever.

Shadow Kurd

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

Netherlands

Scouts of Tyria

P/

21 Aug 2008 at 23:23 - 233

Quote:

Updated the AI for Heroes and henchmen to fix an issue that caused them to occasionally become confused and run in circles.

ROLF

Nice update tough

jaximus

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2008

wisc

21 Aug 2008 at 23:33 - 234

2 skills bugged me in the update, disrupting lunge and smiters boon.
1. d-lunge, as has been said its entirely luck, spam on recharge. same act, rec, disable time as d-shot. thats alright. unblockable with otyughs cry but beast bars are already pinched for spots cuz of charm/comfort and with RaO being the elite of choice you cant replace comfort with heal as one to keep the slots free. so to use d-lunge you basically need 3 skills (d-lunge, charm, comfort) and its random luck. quite balanced. RaO needs to be reworked but thats not what is up for discussion here.

2. smiters boon. great principle since smite is comparable to deadly arts. since we've been over deadly before its a simple comparison. deadly paradox made bad skills usable. smiters boon made laughable recharging smite skills usable. boon wouldnt be an issue if it wasnt for reversal of damage. smite hex at 12 recharge isnt gonna heal when you need it, smite cond at 7 is better but still weak. judges intervention at 8, meh. its the 3 sec timer on rev of damage. the issue becomes that boon is still at max healing effectiveness with no smite atts. since divine is the beaten step child of the monk world (need points for insp in HA, cut df, triple spec? df down) people could load df for a change and get some decent heals. and instead of giving df a boost, they took aura of faith of of it (still sour about that btw) and made it prot. not only did it give smite some usefulness it actually made people like the primary att?

Trylo

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2006

[Here] | CKOD

E/R

21 Aug 2008 at 23:47 - 235

i didnt want to read the 10 some pages that have accumulated, and didnt check to see if this has been quoted yet, although i assume it has.

Quote:

Originally Posted by developer's updates GWwiki

Smiter's Boon is a key skill in smite-heavy PvP teams that were generally overpowered and which too strongly discouraged the use of hexes and conditions. Their combination of healing, damage, and removal invalidated a lot of alternative builds within Team Arenas and has had a negative impact on GvG combat.

We recognize that the changes to this skill will essentially remove it from play. In the future, we may consider whether or not there is an incarnation of this skill that would be viable but balanced. For now, we do not expect it to see serious use.

he obviously knows what he did. however the more significant thing about this post is that it mentions Team Arenas, which after doing a ctrl+f search of the entire updates page back to january 10, 2008 had not been mentioned. the future is bright(er).

Duncan Idaho

Academy Page

Join Date: Jan 2006

N/

21 Aug 2008 at 23:52 - 236

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ec]-[oMaN

Meh the only meta that is using 4xsmiter junk is r500+ guilds and maybe some shitty HA teams...Other than that I don't see what the problem is with the template besides when there are 3+copies of it which has always been a problem in GW since it was released...

And all that came from the VoD removal ... wb 3y ago

Sniper22

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2005

22 Aug 2008 at 00:29 - 237

Wow i can't believe smiters boon. Why don't you delete the whole smiting prayers attribute line while you're at it. Smiting prayers has already taken a nerf after zealots fire with prot got out of hand. Seems like monks are gonna get beat down just like necros did with soul reaping, only problem is, soul reaping is still usable. Smiting prayers... not so much. They didn't even make it a pvp only update (and I honestly hated how they split the pve/pvp skills). So much for balancing the skills. BTW... you're supposed to BALANCE skills, not DELETE them. You should have made smiters boon more vulnerable to being countered instead of beating it to death. Higher recharge for enchant strips, maybe longer cast, make the bonus from smiters boon also vulnerable to soul bind/scourge healing. I had fun running smiters boon in RA. It wasn't as effective as a full healer, but it did help with a little bit of dmg. You might as well nerf down divine boon more as well, considering you hate any thing that can do 2 jobs at once (with less efficiency).

EDIT - NVM the change was PVP only... but still WTH!!!!

garethporlest18

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

[HiDe]

W/

22 Aug 2008 at 00:31 - 238

Um are you guys even looking at the Smiters Boon skill or..am I missing something? Cause it doesn't look changed to me.

Obey The Cat

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2007

FFS

Rt/N

22 Aug 2008 at 00:32 - 239

@gareth: take a look at a pvp area

anyone else noticed bad hero behavior after this update?

like: no resurrection, no automatical use of divine boon or comparable skills?

garethporlest18

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

[HiDe]

W/

22 Aug 2008 at 00:34 - 240

Oh it's only changed for PvP, yeah my bad..brain died there.