Update 21st August 08 - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Taurucis

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2006

The edge of reason

I don't play any more.

W/E

22 Aug 2008 at 00:43 - 241

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obey The Cat

like: no resurrection, no automatical use of divine boon or comparable skills?

They heard about the smiter's boon nerf, and now they're afraid to use divine boon because they're afraid it'll get nerfed too.

A little something I've noticed, why is it that every time Anet fixes one bit about hero AI, another bit of it breaks? >.<

Kook~NBK~

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2005

A little chalet outside Drok's

Natural Born Killaz

22 Aug 2008 at 01:16 - 242

Quote:

Originally Posted by Obey The Cat

anyone else noticed bad hero behavior after this update?

like: no resurrection, no automatical use of divine boon or comparable skills?

Yes. It seems like H/H can't handle support functions nearly as well as before. It makes H/Hing a bit of an ordeal. I posted a few observations over the thread about buggy A/I, since this one's filled with comments about skill changes. (Melee types seem to be working better, though)

Ruby Lightheart

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2005

Clan of Elders

R/Mo

22 Aug 2008 at 01:22 - 243

and the purpose of nerfing Disrupting Lunge was.....I mean come on..that thing barely worked as it was

Chilly Ress

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Oct 2005

Kinetic Fusion [kF]

Me/

22 Aug 2008 at 01:27 - 244

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruby Lightheart

Ok Rampage as one just got an adjustment...making it USABLE . It used to cost 25 energy making it out of reach for a ranger after one death. Its now at 15.

It's still at 25. Uhhhhhhh, dlunge was to help nerf the thump smite build since the thumpers ran 3 interrupts and was a bit over the top.

Dr Strangelove

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Dec 2005

Wasting away again in Margaritaville

[HOTR]

22 Aug 2008 at 01:34 - 245

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruby Lightheart

Ok Rampage as one just got an adjustment...making it USABLE . It used to cost 25 energy making it out of reach for a ranger after one death.

4 billion rangers in PvP disagree. Remember that whole expertise thing?

Red Sonya

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jul 2005

22 Aug 2008 at 01:40 - 246

Baw haw haw haw smiters boon got wack=a=moled hahahahah Bye bye 5 monks in GvG and other arenas I been watchin Lotta hero monks at that. It looked like the meta game had just turned into a monk bash hahaha oh well it's over now...now nerf rangers some more please glad to see they got hit a lil bit, but, would rather see them get hit a lot more.

Alleji

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

22 Aug 2008 at 01:43 - 247

So instead of saying "Ether Renewal'd" we can now say "Smiter's Boon'd"?

Magikarp

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Nov 2007

[HAWK]

22 Aug 2008 at 03:00 - 248

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

In other news, I'm snow, I'm from N. Ireland, and I approve of the above statement.

If it comes down to a long, drawn out affair where Izzy will procrastinate the nerf and finally truly balance the skill, or a quick and rapid BOOYAH, I'd prefer getting rid of the skill in a hurry.

Izzy won't take the time to properly balance the skill, a skill that was poorly conceived anyway, so he may as well thoroughly annihilate it.

limiting the meta to having even more restrictions thanks to a tiny usable skill pool is creating the degenerative metas in the first place.

if you haven't looked around.. everyone plays the same 3-4 builds in its own respective arena, and just like it has been since NF, the game is STALE.

GourangaPizza

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2006

R/W

22 Aug 2008 at 03:03 - 249

Love the Icy Shackles nerf. It is so sickening to see water ele's everywhere spamming it whenever they have a chance, same thing as Blinding Surge pre-nerf ages ago. It's time to see some skillful play from them.

Now nerf Escape please.

Arutima

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2006

Canada

R/

22 Aug 2008 at 03:03 - 250

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleji

So instead of saying "Ether Renewal'd" we can now say "Smiter's Boon'd"?

i still prefer the "verata sacrifice'd"

sterbenx2

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2007

New England

Lunatic Legion

N/

22 Aug 2008 at 03:07 - 251

STOP CHANGING HEROES AI!

H/H Were even LESS intelligent after the last update to their AI! NOW after this morning "fix" they're outright stupid.

They've forgotton how to use rez! Three times today I have watched my life drain to zero while the Monk AI just stands there and looks around.

Just please.. we know you think you're making them better.. it's ok, just leave them alone now.. change them back to the way they were last week and forget it. please..

Arkantos

The Greatest

Join Date: Feb 2006

W/

22 Aug 2008 at 03:15 - 252

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alleji

So instead of saying "Ether Renewal'd" we can now say "Smiter's Boon'd"?

I was thinking of this earlier. I do believe smiters boon got hit a lot harder than ether renewal did, so yes.

HawkofStorms

Hall Hero

Join Date: Aug 2005

E/

22 Aug 2008 at 03:27 - 253

Quote:

Originally Posted by sterbenx2

STOP CHANGING HEROES AI!

H/H Were even LESS intelligent after the last update to their AI! NOW after this morning "fix" they're outright stupid.

They've forgotton how to use rez! Three times today I have watched my life drain to zero while the Monk AI just stands there and looks around.

Just please.. we know you think you're making them better.. it's ok, just leave them alone now.. change them back to the way they were last week and forget it. please..

Agreed. Guildmates are having similar expieriences. These "improvements" often make them significantly dumber.

Kumu Honua

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Feb 2008

22 Aug 2008 at 03:35 - 254

Yep, they ruined hero AI.

My minion bomber stops casting ANYTHING after combat is over.

He will not maintain infuse condition anymore, he will not attempt to keep Jagged Bones on low health minions, he will not cast death nova on any low health minions, and most importantly. He will instantly stop summoning minions if not in direct combat.

It doesn't matter if he has zero current minions out of 10 available, full energy, and standing on top of 5 unexploited corpses.

If I attack an enemy nearby he will jump into action though.

This extends to ALL heroes. While not in combat they simply refuse to cast anything.

My ritualist is not dropping life everywhere she stops, she is not maintaining Protective was Kaheni. The list goes on.

pumpkin pie

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

behind you

bumble bee

E/

22 Aug 2008 at 03:38 - 255

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

"Ranger
• Disrupting Lunge: recharge time increased to 20 seconds."

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

GRRRRRRRRR

Lady Lozza

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Oz

Angel Sharks

Me/N

22 Aug 2008 at 04:04 - 256

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but the mAT is next week (I think). It takes weeks, even months at times to balance skills. In order to get it out of the mAT this really was the only feasible solution.

Despite the Dev notes, I think it would be reasonable to assume that they will look at it (Smiter's Boon) at some stage in the future, whether in terms of "balancing" or changing the skill description. But for the immediate future (mAT) this was the best possible solution - instead of trying something like Glimmering Mark, which they are stilll fiddling with.

badfish34668

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2006

LF guild

R/Mo

22 Aug 2008 at 04:55 - 257

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kumu Honua

Yep, they ruined hero AI.

My minion bomber stops casting ANYTHING after combat is over.

He will not maintain infuse condition anymore, he will not attempt to keep Jagged Bones on low health minions, he will not cast death nova on any low health minions, and most importantly. He will instantly stop summoning minions if not in direct combat.

It doesn't matter if he has zero current minions out of 10 available, full energy, and standing on top of 5 unexploited corpses.

If I attack an enemy nearby he will jump into action though.

This extends to ALL heroes. While not in combat they simply refuse to cast anything.

My ritualist is not dropping life everywhere she stops, she is not maintaining Protective was Kaheni. The list goes on.

i agree with all of the above.

in addition, rangers wont rez pets unless in battle.

anet, stop "fixing" things please, you do more harm than good.

icedwhitemocha

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2006

Ancestral/Grenz

[CneX]

W/

22 Aug 2008 at 05:15 - 258

People who are complaining about the skill being overnerfed and izzy not doing his job are completely missing the goddamn point

DarkGanni

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

Malta

[CuTe]

E/

22 Aug 2008 at 06:15 - 259

Monk
• Smiter’s Boon: recharge time increased to 90 seconds, Energy cost increased to 25, duration reduced to 5 seconds.

This isn't skill fixing^

My suggestion:

Change the skill function completely.

The way it is now it became from popular to forgotten.

- Ganni

fenix

Major-General Awesome

Join Date: Aug 2005

Aussie Trolling Crew HQ - Event Organiser and IRC Tiger

Ex Talionis [Law], Trinity of the Ascended [ToA] ????????????????&#

W/

22 Aug 2008 at 06:56 - 260

So many people are missing the fact that the Smiter's Boon change is PvP only, so why are you all crying about it?

Seriously.

Azza

Banned

Join Date: Oct 2006

Australia

United Farmers of Europe[FOE]

R/

22 Aug 2008 at 09:08 - 261

all this skill nerfing, has made me wanna buy GW2 even more...NOT!!

TY a-net u and ur mods have made me realise buying GW2 will be a waste of time, cus soon as a little fan base cries about a skill it'll be changed...so NTY i will not be purchasing any games with your logo on it ever again.

and for people reading i dont really use any of the skills changed, it just comes to show me that anything A-Net has will be nerfed so its no longer the game, us veterans use to have...GG anet GG

Joe Fierce

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2007

Disconnect the fascination

LF High End PvE Guild that's not filled with elitists.

R/

22 Aug 2008 at 09:10 - 262

heroes now = dumber than a bag of hammers.

Koudelka

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2007

England

The Khaotic Empire (TKE)

Me/Mo

22 Aug 2008 at 09:19 - 263

[Smiter's Boon]
Smiter's Boon: recharge time increased to 90 seconds, Energy cost increased to 25, duration reduced to 5 seconds.

I thought April Fool's Day was over. What on Tyria has just happened to this skill? Before it was unpopular for being aligned to smiting, and I must have been one of the only monks to use it regularly. Now... it's the slowest recharging skill in the game... the most expensive monk skill (pretty much) the shortest duration... and for what? A teeny bit of healing that doesn't even come with the skill. I'm not angry, I actually laughed in disbelief!

I guess arenanet didn't like my [Smiter's Boon] [Shield of Judgment] [Reversal of Damage] [Judge's Intervention] [Smite Hex] [Smite Condition] that I use to solo mobs :P.

Any thoughts on why areanet sat on this skill...?

*Note* Just found this on wiki. Someone mistook today for the first of April too!

Quote:

Man? 90 seconds recharge and just last 5 seconds? 25 energy cost? what a joke, hahahaha! thanks for the big laugh! I love you ArenaNet! this is maybe the biggest nerf in GW history? anyone knows a worst one?

Should have added exhaustion and a 5 sec knockdown xD.

*EDIT* Ooh moved.

Shasgaliel

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2008

[bomb]

22 Aug 2008 at 09:21 - 264

which mobs did you solo in pvp? Skill was changed for Pvp only.

Azza

Banned

Join Date: Oct 2006

Australia

United Farmers of Europe[FOE]

R/

22 Aug 2008 at 09:22 - 265

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Fierce

heroes now = dumber than a bag of hammers.

Yes i have noticed the stupidity of heroes since this update..well since the update before, u have ur melee characters(set on guard)+melee henchmen that just run towards a group(even if not close) and start fighting then leg it back to u...Monk even on flag are coming into my sons tanking position to heal him with ranged spells, and any second u let heroes or henchmen off flag they run up to tanking position(well do it on flag aswell with ranged attacks)...they wont attack the targets u call...alls i got to say, if A-net did this as some sort of tactic to get people teaming, then they should of left ursan(as overpowered as it was)LMAO..

SpotJorge

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2006

Europe

Temple Of Love

R/E

22 Aug 2008 at 09:30 - 266

when i looked at heros running in circles it looked like anet team messing the skills and nerfing all game ... what i ask is why after 3 years of a game all this changes are still needed ... want to fix the game? ... make a reboot to jan 2006 and all will be fine again

around

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: May 2006

Aussie Trolling Crew - Diplomatic Embassy

I Have Three Pennies [Pnny] - forever in my heart <3

R/

22 Aug 2008 at 10:49 - 267

Anyone who's calling Izzy lazy is completely missing the point.

If he'd done anything less than completely obliterate it, it would still be usable and ridiculous, and then they'd only have had 1 more update slot before the mAT turned into (even more) shit.

He's just taking the safe option.

Also you're all still missing the point. Yes, he could have shat upon it from less of a height, but Smiter's Boon would still have been nerfed to unusability, and this way he sends out a message to everyone: if you use this skill you have a small penis.

free_fall

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

22 Aug 2008 at 11:35 - 268

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kumu Honua

Yep, they ruined hero AI.

My minion bomber stops casting ANYTHING after combat is over.

He will not maintain infuse condition anymore, he will not attempt to keep Jagged Bones on low health minions, he will not cast death nova on any low health minions, and most importantly. He will instantly stop summoning minions if not in direct combat.

It doesn't matter if he has zero current minions out of 10 available, full energy, and standing on top of 5 unexploited corpses.

If I attack an enemy nearby he will jump into action though.

This extends to ALL heroes. While not in combat they simply refuse to cast anything.

My ritualist is not dropping life everywhere she stops, she is not maintaining Protective was Kaheni. The list goes on.

I am this exact same problem. Olias will not raise minions after combat ends. e can be standing by several corpses wth a full energy bar and he just stands there until the corpses vanish.

Nor will he cast Blood of the Master as his minions start dying between mobs.

I've had to start keeping his bar open and manually managing his skills for him.

I hadn't really been experiencing the problems that others were having with the H&H (at least not to the same degree, I guess), but neither was I having any problems with them prior to the original update, alleged problems which that update was meant to correct. And now we have this update that's meant to fix the 1st one but has just made things worse in some ways.

Not saying this to bash Anet - I think they do a bang-up job, overall - but this isn't the first time they've tried to 'fix' something that wasn't broken to begin with and only succeded in really breaking it, then breaking it some more when trying to fix that.

Hopefully, they'll get this straightened out soon, maybe by next Thursday.

Darcy

Never Too Old

Join Date: Jul 2006

Rhode Island where there are no GW contests

Order of First

W/R

22 Aug 2008 at 13:31 - 269

Thank you to Kumu Honua and free_fall. Once again, I thought I was losing my mind (no comments needed).

I'm running around with my rit doing Luxon side and wondering why I have no minions half the time. I didn't connect it to the unexploited corpses lying around NOT being used by Olias.

I would like to point out that this is why longer testing period for AI changes should be a requirement at ANet. I understand that this was done to resolve the complaints of changed hero/hench behavior after last weeks update, but the cure is worse than the disease.

P A L P H R A M O N D

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2006

Washington, D.C.

Me/

22 Aug 2008 at 14:45 - 270

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arutima

i still prefer the "verata sacrifice'd"

I personally like the 25/90 term. Something gets 25/90'ed . . . = forever pwned.

Obey The Cat

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2007

FFS

Rt/N

22 Aug 2008 at 14:54 - 271

normal while they are in combat

cgruber

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2007

Tryst of Vengenance [ToV]

Mo/Me

22 Aug 2008 at 15:38 - 272

Quote:

Originally Posted by around

What part of 'he has no time' do you not get? If he made any less of a nerf to Boon during that update, it would still have been usable and (here's the part you don't understand) people would still have rolled face with it.

That would have left him with 1 update slot remaining before the mAT, when he would have completely wrecked the skill anyway to stop it being a nuisance.

I heard rend enchantments was good. Adding a 60 sec recharge would be plenty good for a nerf.

Bug John

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2005

22 Aug 2008 at 15:45 - 273

Quote:

Originally Posted by around

What part of 'he has no time' do you not get? If he made any less of a nerf to Boon during that update, it would still have been usable and (here's the part you don't understand) people would still have rolled face with it.

That would have left him with 1 update slot remaining before the mAT, when he would have completely wrecked the skill anyway to stop it being a nuisance.

what you don't understand is that your points are clear, but not valid

"he has no time" :
- he has no time because he's always late balancing skills, smiter's boon has been overused for weeks
- he doesn't need time, one update should be enough to balance a skill like smiter's boon

"people would still have rolled face with it" :
- Izzy's job is not to decide what skills can be used in pvp and destroy the rest, his job is to balance skills so that there are different viable options
- lots of people had good ideas to make smiter's boon balanced, believe it or not

Gun Pierson

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2006

Belgium

PIMP

Mo/

22 Aug 2008 at 16:02 - 274

lol @ Smiter's Boon. Next in line: 'Smite Hex': remove one hex from target ally and target ally farts, all nearby foes turn green.

More reason for me to permanently quit PvP as I like to play as a smiter. First direct dmg signet smiter nerf, now support boon smiter. While crazy spike builds remain untouched. PvE is the way to go as a smiter.

Tearz1993

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2007

Relentless Aggressors [rA]

R/Mo

22 Aug 2008 at 16:12 - 275

Not even going to bother arguing, around is right and everyone saying "izzy sux" obviously didn't read even the first page of this thread before they posted.

Oh and yes, the monthly is more important than your RA smiter bar.

ajc2123

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

North of the wall

Me/

22 Aug 2008 at 16:14 - 276

I'm happy they killed smiter's boon. Shouldn't be able to heal and do damage like that at the same time. Now you can still heal and do damage but not as much.

Smite monks in pvp were just wrong, in pve they are fun.

GG

Tyla

Emo Goth Italics

Join Date: Sep 2006

22 Aug 2008 at 16:19 - 277

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper22

Well it destroyed my RA smiter which was definitely NOT unbalanced seeing as good spikes or aoe will easily take it down compared to other monk builds. Smiter's boon wasn't really used in pve anyway.

Where are you going to find good spikes or AoE being strong in RA? Legitimate groups, only.

Oh, wait...

Snow Bunny

Alcoholic From Yale

Join Date: Jul 2007

Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]

22 Aug 2008 at 16:35 - 278

First and foremost, it was a PvP balance. The one PvP format that's given more attention then others is GvG, for obvious reasons. This was an update targeted at GvG with TA in consideration.

No one cares about AB or RA balance, mainly because they're not organized enough to be competitive.

It wasn't anything of note in HA, so HA'ers shouldn't care.

So, unless you GvG or TA frequently, you shouldn't care. Most people don't use smiters, except in degenerate GvG or TA builds that focus on destroying shutdown.

Any players who PvE and whose sole venture into PvP is AB should really stop commenting on this.

Izzy is pressed for time and has a group of other balancers to contend with when balancing skills. Smiter's Boon was seriously wrecking GvG and TA, and with the imperative for a balance at the threshold and not enough time to properly do it, it's best that he did what he did.

No one cares about RA smiter monks, or smiters in AB. This was a nerf for GvG and TA, and was done expediently, as opposed to the agonizingly slow drawn out process it normally is.

THANK YOU GW BALANCE TEAM.

Teh Jace

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2008

Le Czech Republic

Ar Vin Pvp [AMp]

Mo/Me

22 Aug 2008 at 17:06 - 279

Smiter's boon was basically an OP'ed elite skill wihout a golden frame. It allowed dumb and bad ppl to be good at pvp.
The nerfage of this skill is just one of many steps that have to be taken in order to recover pvp.

It's pretty obvious this nerf was a bit over the top but who cares. The mechanic of this skill was just retarded. Such a skill should have never ever existed. Same goes for mantra of inscriptions, RaO, expertise, WS, foul feast, WoD, SoM, unstrippable paragon buffs and other garbage.

mr_stealth

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Mar 2006

I Gots A Crayon[Blue]

Mo/Me

22 Aug 2008 at 17:18 - 280

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sniper22"We recognize that the changes to this skill will essentially [B

remove it from play[/B]. In the future, we may consider whether or not there is an incarnation of this skill that would be viable but balanced. For now, we do not expect it to see serious use."

The bolded parts are exactly where the problem is, not the fact that it was nerfed/killed. A temporary killing of the skill was not the only (or the best) option, but was faster/easier than a total rework. It got the job done as far as removing an OP'd skill for the upcoming mAT and mixing up builds/tactics a bit. The problem is that they are even considering leaving the skill like this permanently. Any change that completely removes a skill from the game does nothing but promote an even more stale playstyle. What is needed is to have as many viable build options as possible.

If the solution to everything OP'd is to nerf it into the ground, its only a matter of time before the nerf cycle comes full circle. Once everything is nerfed, all that left is the same imbalance, just at a lower power level.