Or at least moderate it.
Since the title of Gladiator was created I'm seeing tons of sync-entered guild teams, before that mainly the Koreans did this. Basically sync-entering means that they get an organized team into random arena to fight random teams - meaning they get ten easy wins.
My suggestion: remove the countdown, making it harder to sync. That should at least make sync-entering harder.
However the underlying problem with RA remains that four players are too few to average the teams, meaning the matches are 100% determined by if you luck out and get a functional team build or not. RA should be 8v8.
Solving the Problem of Synching in Random Arena
Numa Pompilius
Rusty Deth
I'm all for 8x8 in RA...
The 4x4 is ussually a crap shoot. Maybe thats why I do Fort Aspenwood alot.
The 4x4 is ussually a crap shoot. Maybe thats why I do Fort Aspenwood alot.
Evilsod
RA should not be 8v8. Its 4v4 to make it functional as random. If you get a monk. A monk can survive on his own against 4 people, against 8 people? Your kidding.
Not to mention we'd see people trying to sync things like FoC spike, if that pulled off they'd be in there forever. As you'd never come across TA people who are still at 4v4.
Not to mention we'd see people trying to sync things like FoC spike, if that pulled off they'd be in there forever. As you'd never come across TA people who are still at 4v4.
yamero
i lost at 8 wins by a synch teaming warmachine guild...
needless to say i lost all respect i had for those damn glad farmers..
even so they took 40 mins to beat a random european team at sudden death in death count..in any other map they wouldnt stand a chance..
i have a nicescreenie of it...
just to expose warmachine of what they really are...
a bunch of farmers
needless to say i lost all respect i had for those damn glad farmers..
even so they took 40 mins to beat a random european team at sudden death in death count..in any other map they wouldnt stand a chance..
i have a nicescreenie of it...
just to expose warmachine of what they really are...
a bunch of farmers
Rathcail
Yeah, I too am very familiar with the four [WM]'s in Random Arenas.
SpeedyKQ
Yup, this is a problem.
Maybe when you enter, the entrance should be delayed by a random number of seconds between 0 and 20.
Maybe when you enter, the entrance should be delayed by a random number of seconds between 0 and 20.
Nightwish
We should know by now that many good players tend to be less honest because they usually do whatever it takes to win, including using not-so-fair tactics or exploiting bugs.
unholy guardian
yeah when your that high of a guild... you kinda get high off trying to win. People in real life do whatever it takes to win things too...
draugr
As another arena bonus weekend starts, I look forward to some RA play. One of the broken aspects of RA that has never been fixed is the possibility to cheat by synching into the arena.
This could be fixed by having a preliminary "vestibule" where all districts feed into the same "hat" for arena team selection, but would not include any graphical change to the player . The vestibule would be allowed to fill for a few seconds, and then the regular random selection process could occur.
This could be fixed by having a preliminary "vestibule" where all districts feed into the same "hat" for arena team selection, but would not include any graphical change to the player . The vestibule would be allowed to fill for a few seconds, and then the regular random selection process could occur.
Shayne Hawke
So, instead of entering people in the order that they ask to join battle, they get randomly picked out of all the people ready to play?
That's the way it should have worked from the get-go. The only improvement to be made to that is that players that previously weren't picked will be guaranteed to be picked next game for as many of those players as possible. That will prevent having people enter and not getting in for many minutes while other people are able to get in on their first go.
That's the way it should have worked from the get-go. The only improvement to be made to that is that players that previously weren't picked will be guaranteed to be picked next game for as many of those players as possible. That will prevent having people enter and not getting in for many minutes while other people are able to get in on their first go.
draugr
The time it takes to get into a match wouldn't change from status quo. By placing people from all districts in the same pool immediately upon hitting enter for a 5-10 second period, it would make synching very difficult to do. I don't suspect this would take many resources to fix, but have also suspected for some time that arenanet actually "likes" synching for some unknown reason, and has looke the other way. One of few explanations for why othewise blatant cheating would be allowed to exist so long without a simple fix.
BTW, synching is pretty pervasive in RA. Alliances and friends lists allow people to synch without having the same guild tags. People have always thought that synchers only cheated from within their guild and this has never been the case.
BTW, synching is pretty pervasive in RA. Alliances and friends lists allow people to synch without having the same guild tags. People have always thought that synchers only cheated from within their guild and this has never been the case.
MithranArkanere
To grant randomness, increase the number of items to 'shuffle'.
So, the system should wait for enough players to make at least 4 random teams (including the teams playing). And then shuffle the players after getting them, instead of getting them in chronological order.
So, the system should wait for enough players to make at least 4 random teams (including the teams playing). And then shuffle the players after getting them, instead of getting them in chronological order.
Div
Who really cares?
RedStar
Peoples will always find a way, always.
Fallen Hunter
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Originally Posted by RedStar
Peoples will always find a way, always.
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The other problem is when synched entry is not successful. In this case, the people who were attempting it often leave the team they find themselves in. This has been reduced by the introduction of the dishonour system, but it can still occur. Basically, this fix will make RA a much better environment for the testing of builds, and for those only starting out in PvP.
And please, don't say that RA is unimportant. It is the only PvP type available to newbies, and making it a hostile environment to these players by allowing synchronised entry is only going to make it harder for them to unlock other forms of PvP.
RavagerOfDreams
Quote:
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Originally Posted by holymasamune
Who really cares?
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/givecookie
Solange
Quote:
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Originally Posted by holymasamune
Who really cares?
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Giga_Gaia
Quote:
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Originally Posted by holymasamune
Who really cares?
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RedStar
Well, you can't really be random in random arena because people will always say 2 things :
- you got your build on wiki
- you build sucks /report....
Of course having a wa/rit with channeling on your team is annoying, but hey, they have to learn somewhere.
- you got your build on wiki
- you build sucks /report....
Of course having a wa/rit with channeling on your team is annoying, but hey, they have to learn somewhere.
Tark Alkerk
quite frankly, I don't see sync as a problem, because of these things, 1, it doesn't work all the time, 2, I don't actually see this suggestion fixing it, 3, since was luck competitive? , the random nature of nature of RA exists so people may get matches, its not to be a serious game mechanic, other wise RA could just as well be an arena where a computer generates 8 players who have a random selection of skills and use said random skills at random times, that would be random arenas. But then again, the whole idea of RA is detestable, its been a breading ground for poor quality builds for a long time, with people insisting on bring earth tanks with stone daggers.
There are 2 ways to play RA, either you can play a build that will be useful as long as you get some sort of healer and hope for a random match with a monk for example, or you can play something which tries to survive as well as doing damage, so that when you enter you may stand a chance of living a while without of monk.
But since when has the game being about surviving, you don't win matches by boring the enemy to death.
And finally, per Holy, who actually seriously cares, if you take RA as a serious form of PVP, you may as well give up the PvP game and play AB, because that is the quality of PVP at the lower end of the scale, in a word terrible.
There are 2 ways to play RA, either you can play a build that will be useful as long as you get some sort of healer and hope for a random match with a monk for example, or you can play something which tries to survive as well as doing damage, so that when you enter you may stand a chance of living a while without of monk.
But since when has the game being about surviving, you don't win matches by boring the enemy to death.
And finally, per Holy, who actually seriously cares, if you take RA as a serious form of PVP, you may as well give up the PvP game and play AB, because that is the quality of PVP at the lower end of the scale, in a word terrible.
mystical nessAL
The syncing makes it just way more fun.
Mesmer in Need
If you can't handle 2 people who are just a bit more organised then the rest of the ra'ers, then you shouldent be in pvp at all. Unless they're on vent and running a 2 person spike, then I don't see what the problem is.
draugr
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Originally Posted by Mesmer in Need
If you can't handle 2 people who are just a bit more organised then the rest of the ra'ers, then you shouldent be in pvp at all. Unless they're on vent and running a 2 person spike, then I don't see what the problem is.
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As far as the snide "who cares" comments, RA is one of my favorite areas of GW. I'm a busy professional without the time to join an organized guild, do much gvg, or wait around in TA to form a team. The "hop right in" aspect of RA is appealing for this reason. And to take the snide question seriously, there are SIX districts in RA atm and it is early morning EST... are there six HA districts? TA? AB?... ever? Even during non doubled weekends, RA is usually 3-4 districts. That's -who cares-
X89
It's Random Arenas, which means at some point you will randomly play against synced players. The system isn't broken, it's evolving into a broader aspect of what Random Arenas really is.
Kaida the Heartless
That's incorrect logic X89. The synchers are already bypassing what is supposed to be random.
Synching just allows half of a team to be coordinated. If I know my friend is running a monk, I'll just run some kind of damage support hybrid to help him out. It's an easy 3 glad points every time.
Random arenas is supposed to be random. That statement alone should explain why it needs to be fixed.
Synching just allows half of a team to be coordinated. If I know my friend is running a monk, I'll just run some kind of damage support hybrid to help him out. It's an easy 3 glad points every time.
Random arenas is supposed to be random. That statement alone should explain why it needs to be fixed.
Patrick Smit
Its cool to beat synced teams, however the possibility to sync can easily be destroyed by what has been suggested. This does not even require more resources as suggested, only a bigger pool of players to be involved in the selection process. Syncing in a deserted area, means a 100% chance of succes. Syncing with a pool of at least 8 people (as much as is needed for 1 battle to occur) is near impossible. The chance the wannabe syncers end up in the same team are 6x10^-4 (0.0006, so 6 out of 10000 attempts you will succeed, calculated using a pool of 8 players that are randomly drawn without returning them to the pool ---> 1/8*1/7*1/6*1/5= 0.0006)
Yes very easy to implement, however the pool of 8 also makes it possible to sabotage fights, bigger pools, is more randomness.
Yes very easy to implement, however the pool of 8 also makes it possible to sabotage fights, bigger pools, is more randomness.
Hugh Manatee
Think of Synced teams as training for when you get to TA and have to fight fully planned 4 man teams...
Successfully syncing is basically luck, just like every other aspect of RA. I ended up fighting one of my allies just the other night... If a whole guild or alliance floods RA and hits the enter button, there's a chance theymay be paired up, there's a chance they may not, more often then not they aren't, when they are, it's a fun surprise.
Successfully syncing is basically luck, just like every other aspect of RA. I ended up fighting one of my allies just the other night... If a whole guild or alliance floods RA and hits the enter button, there's a chance theymay be paired up, there's a chance they may not, more often then not they aren't, when they are, it's a fun surprise.
MithranArkanere
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hugh Manatee
Think of Synced teams as training for when you get to TA and have to fight fully planned 4 man teams...
Successfully syncing is basically luck, just like every other aspect of RA. I ended up fighting one of my allies just the other night... If a whole guild or alliance floods RA and hits the enter button, there's a chance theymay be paired up, there's a chance they may not, more often then not they aren't, when they are, it's a fun surprise. |
It's an exploitation of a flaw in the system, and thus must be ended.
RiKio
True. Destroy RA sync. Add RA balanced party sistem: When you enter, you are paried with another teamates in a balanced party, not parties like 3 warriors and 1 necro, 2 sins 2 mesmers, etc.
draugr
Played 8 keys worth of RA last night and noticed little obvious synching. However, the couple of times when synching was highly likely, I was on a good random team and lost glads/faction because of it.
It got me thinking how much factions/glads honest players lose because of synch cheating, and without lots of hypotheticals, the answer is that a single synched team can deprive a boatload of honest players their reward for playing RA because their cheating is extended through ten rounds of play v different teams. A single synch team screws over lots of folks.
An analogy... imagine what the UB "debate" would be like if the drops in the high end areas were allocated based on efficiency in completing the mission (ala certain challenge missions), top score, etc., and UB groups began setting the pace and getting more of the drops. Just imagine the uproar.
RA is one of the most popular areas of GW based on the number of players there at any given time. It is a haven for the types of casual players, both skilled and noobish, who usually don't come and post on forums like this one. The interesting question is in a pvp environment where balance is scrupulously and frequently sought after in other areas, why would arenanet ignore balance in such a heavily populated pvp area?
And to preempt, I'm not really a glad point hound, synch cheating has cheesed me since 2005 before glads where Asian guild tags met in RA all but insured a three thumper one monk team.
It got me thinking how much factions/glads honest players lose because of synch cheating, and without lots of hypotheticals, the answer is that a single synched team can deprive a boatload of honest players their reward for playing RA because their cheating is extended through ten rounds of play v different teams. A single synch team screws over lots of folks.
An analogy... imagine what the UB "debate" would be like if the drops in the high end areas were allocated based on efficiency in completing the mission (ala certain challenge missions), top score, etc., and UB groups began setting the pace and getting more of the drops. Just imagine the uproar.
RA is one of the most popular areas of GW based on the number of players there at any given time. It is a haven for the types of casual players, both skilled and noobish, who usually don't come and post on forums like this one. The interesting question is in a pvp environment where balance is scrupulously and frequently sought after in other areas, why would arenanet ignore balance in such a heavily populated pvp area?
And to preempt, I'm not really a glad point hound, synch cheating has cheesed me since 2005 before glads where Asian guild tags met in RA all but insured a three thumper one monk team.
The Meth
Here's how to fix not only synching, but most of the other problems with RA:
Remove gladiator gains from it.
People won't be wasting their time trying to do lame stuff if they aren't getting points towards their precious titles. The idea of an almost completely random match providing a title is retarded in the first place.
This too.
Remove gladiator gains from it.
People won't be wasting their time trying to do lame stuff if they aren't getting points towards their precious titles. The idea of an almost completely random match providing a title is retarded in the first place.
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Originally Posted by holymasamune
Who really cares?
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draugr
Synching RA was prevalent pre glad for faction farming. Cheaters have always done things like getting run to droks or being run to cap an elite for arenas, even long ago.
I noticed less synching after the glad revamp and the implementation of dishonor. After the intro of the z-chest, I noticed synching rise again.
I noticed less synching after the glad revamp and the implementation of dishonor. After the intro of the z-chest, I noticed synching rise again.
X89
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Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless
That's incorrect logic X89
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To restate a valid point in this thread
Originally Posted by holymasamune
Who really cares?
^nuff said
HawkofStorms
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Originally Posted by X89
Guess I should have put /end sarcasm somewhere in there. Random Arenas as it stands is fine, the only problem is double weekends, when people who usually never ra, or do it occasionally, play in there for more then an hour at a time they either play against, or lose against, synced players, then come on guru and post threads on how/why it should be fixed.
To restate a valid point in this thread Originally Posted by holymasamune Who really cares? ^nuff said |
RA is a plague now. Way more noobs then normally.
makosi
I've brought up the issue of RA synch cheating before and Andrew Patrick said that he'd raise the issue at a community meeting and the problem would be addressed if it was deemed worthy of the time and resources to solve it.
There have been no resolutions as of yet which suggests that there probably never will be.
The 'vestibule' idea doesn't sound complicated or difficult to implement, though. So I'd /sign it.
If nothing is done about it then I think it's fair to assume that synching is allowed, despite being the abuse of an exploit. Can I go ahead and do it then?
There have been no resolutions as of yet which suggests that there probably never will be.
The 'vestibule' idea doesn't sound complicated or difficult to implement, though. So I'd /sign it.
If nothing is done about it then I think it's fair to assume that synching is allowed, despite being the abuse of an exploit. Can I go ahead and do it then?
Zesbeer
there is always way to many n00bs in ra that dont brig rezs (only exception is if your healing) i find ra to be the most annoying thing in the game. i do think they need to fix it so people cant synch because people do it regardless of the weekend or not. and everyone saying oh no it shouldnt be fixed are probably people who are doing it. i for one just report them for leeching.
You can't see me
Quote:
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Originally Posted by RiKio
True. Destroy RA sync. Add RA balanced party sistem: When you enter, you are paried with another teamates in a balanced party, not parties like 3 warriors and 1 necro, 2 sins 2 mesmers, etc.
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It's not called balanced arenas. Being able to play with random team parties and synergize with the abilities of your team mates is the entire point.
But I like this idea. /Signed for the OP.
Div
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Originally Posted by Solange
OH you know...THE PEOPLE WHO LIKE FAIR PLAY!!!!!!!!!
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Giga_Gaia
Perhaps to keep the RANDOM in RANDOM Arena?
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Who really cares? It's RA.
People who play it do it for fun. I can't imagine anyone being serious over fighting one synched team every 50 matches. And if you're getting more than that, then welcome to random arenas, where your bad luck is random too.
Hugh Manatee
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
Syncing is not a skill to use in fights like dodging arrows.
It's an exploitation of a flaw in the system, and thus must be ended. |
Like they said, it's RA, who cares, it's luck of the draw who and what you get paired with, if you get with a buddy, great, if you get with a oath shot+Meteor shower R/E nuker or a Mo/W Frenzy hammer smiter tough tits. Only about half of all the sync attempts I make ever work, and those mostly if the zone is already near deserted and the afore mentioned 'fixes' wouldn't work(AB, Jade Quarry, Aspenwood ect).
You can't see me
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Originally Posted by holymasamune
In case you didn't get it the first time, let me elaborate.
Who really cares? It's RA. People who play it do it for fun. I can't imagine anyone being serious over fighting one synched team every 50 matches. And if you're getting more than that, then welcome to random arenas, where your bad luck is random too. |