Mysterious Stranger

Because people over at the GWO lore forum is having a fun time trying to figure this out, I thought I'd bring this over here for more thoughts.

There is little support for who the mysterious stranger is. The only thing we know about him is that s/he wanted the human leaders (of Kryta, Vabbi, and the Dragon Empire) dead, and that s/he supplied a power crystal for R.O.X.'s creation.

I won't bring over any speculations from GWO so that we have some more original thoughts and no "yes I agree with xxxx, although I have no way to support it."

Let the thinking begin!

I thought the book explained who asked for the specific robots to be built?

Or was that just why they were built and who they were sent to?

If my original idea was wrong, then I'd say the motives of that person would be something along the lines of the fortune teller from Cantha that pushed Shiro over the edge. Can't say who would be like that though.

An angry Mursaat, perhaps?

spider senses tingling...
no... it can't be!

NEW ANTAGONIST?!?!

If it's a new antagonist, wouldn't that mean...maybe...possibly...more new material..?

could the custom power crystals be shards of the bloodstone? P.O.X. has a skill called Bloodstone Slash and using the bloodstone as a power source would certainly cause some weird affects. Perhaps this could lead to additional content concerning the last two bloodstone locations?

Who is the Mysterious Stranger who wants the Nobles of Tyria dead? Perhaps the Champion of the Taris Dueling Ring

Honestly though, I'm betting on a new villain. Perhaps a member of the White Mantle intent on destroying prominent religious figures and establishing the Unseen Ones as Tyria's dominant religion?

The Mursaat/White Mantle connection was my thought as well. First, they're the ones that are in the right area to find Zinn in the first place. Second, it was the first one built that went after Salma. Third, the Mursaat have their own means of building constructs.

The attempts on Kisu and the princes of Vabbi could be explained as covering their tracks by hiding who their primary target was, or as an attempt to stop Elona and Cantha from intervening in the attempted coup by stirring up trouble there as well.

That said, who else would benefit from causing this chaos? Lots of people. Palawa, possibly, although my theory is that his plan is to keep lying low and not give the current heroes an excuse to go after him until they all die off. Some minion of Menzies or Dhuum, or of one of the dragons... possibly even a Charr looking to make sure the other nations don't get around to sending aid to Ascalon.

My first thought was Lazarus. All 3 attacks would cause dismay to the humans of Tyria rather than other races. And he just so happens to have it in for humans. He also made that little speech about making hell for generations of humans to come. Killing off an Emperor, a Queen and three Princes would certainly achieve that goal.

Now we are getting somewhere over here (sometimes I question the intelligence of most people on guru). I gotta know, Draxynnic, did you look over at GWO? You just said every thought over there that was not disproven, except for the unlikely stone summit (and one rather weird theory that I don't even want to mention, as there is little support for it).

Now that there are thoughts over here, I'll say what the current thoughts are over at GWO:

Most Likely:
1. Lazarus and/or other Mursaat that still live
2. Dhuum/Menzies' follower
3. A exiled Charr Shaman
4. New Antagonist

Not-so-likely but still possible:
1. Palawa Joko
2. one of the few Stone Summit (as they are mostly destroyed by the time after EN)

Not likely at all:
1. Ancient Dragon's followers (no knowledge of their existence in-game still)

I personally place my hopes on Dhuum/Menzies (We REALLY gotta tie off those loose ends), but it seems most likely that it is Lazarus.

Lazarus or some other remnant of the White Mantle/Muursat would be a likely suspect. It seems to me however that They would be less concerned with attacking political leaders outside of Kryta. For one thier contact with Canthans and Elonans has been severely limited at best. Secondly they're severely weakened at this point and currently (EotN) are pretty much locked in a war with other Krytan groups (mostly the Shining Blades) for control of the country. I just don't see them having the rescources or the desire to attack other countries untill they've regained control of thier own. I realize Lazarus hates humans, but it just seems to me he has a bit more on his plate at the moment and attacking leaders of foreign countries wouldn't really benefit him or the Muursat much at this point.

I'm thinking ANet (if they continue with this and don't just leave us hanging) is thinking to spring some all new threat on us soon. I hope it somehow ties back into Menzies and Dhuum because having those loose ends just dangling out is terribly annoying. >.<

Hell as far as we know it's just a particularly megalomaniacal Asura with some extra cash to throw around. They are extremely arrogant, know a lot about GOLEMs, and believe they should rule the world. Maybe this one decided his first step was taking out the humans?

Azazel: Nope, but I'm not surprised. I basically listed everyone that I could think of that was still a going concern for villainry apart from the gangs (the Stone Summit appears to be kaput, and I didn't consider the gangs because one of them is being used, and I don't think the Am Fah would have given the golem to the Jade Brotherhood in the first place even as an attempt at framing them).

Actually, come to think on it, one possibility I missed is the pirates - if people are using the relative peace after EOTN to crack down on them, a pirate leader might decide that knocking out a few governments might give them freedom to act again. Don't really see that working out, though.

In the far left field, it could be a different nonhuman - a Centaur would find the disguise hard to pull off, but a Tengu might be able to - we know there are antagonistic Tengu in both Kryta and Cantha, so they'd potentially benefit directly from two of the hits.

The 8th: I addressed this in my earlier post. Largely, I see three reasons to hit the other leaders:

1) Because the heroes of the Tyria, Cantha and Elona have shown that they'll all work together against a common foe. If they just concentrated on the situation at home, then if it ever looked like they were going to win than the combined expeditionary forces of all three continents would likely come down on them hard (of course, Ascalon is a counter-example, but I think the justification there is that Adelburn is still too proud to accept foreign reinforcements however badly they may be needed). If enough chaos can be raised in the other continents, this might provide enough of a distraction to get away with it.

2) To create doubt as to who was responsible. If it was just Salma, people would quickly narrow it down to the obvious suspects. With the extra targets, that gets people wondering who has it in for all three continents.

3) Because they can. Since I'm pretty sure Zinn didn't actually get paid, all it cost them was the three power sources - the labour and other materials were essentially stolen from Zinn. It's not like they're dispatching an army to do it - while in theory they could have just added the golems to their conventional forces, they are essentially expendable assets.

I disagree with both Centaurs and Tengu being possible.

Centaur:
Pro attack:
1. They all hate/dislike humans, with rare exceptions. (Even the Veldrunner Pride, which is the kindest Centaur Pride, has people who hate humans).
Con attack:
1. No connection to Cantha, Kryta, or Vabbi.
2. They only attack humans in the Maguuma, Shiverpeaks, and the Crystal Desert.
3. And Kourna is the only area where Centaurs are close to humans. Which isn't even targeted.

Tengu:
Pro attack:
1. They hate nearby humans, especially in Cantha.
2. They attack anyone who trespass on their lands, which the humans in Kryta and Cantha are technically on.
Con attack:
1. They don't leave their land.
2. They have no reason to attack Vabbi.
3. The ones with the most hate (The Sensali) don't have access to Tyria as far as we know. And if they did, they wouldn't bother giving it to the Jade Brotherhood without ordering to kill them first.
4. The Queztal and Avricari have no reason to attack.
5. The Caromi have made no noticeable large-scale attack, only simple raids when humans go on their lands.

I'd consider them possible but improbable, for the reasons you describe.

Regarding the Centaurs, I was thinking the Tyrian centaurs rather than the Kournan centaurs, which do apparently feel they've been pushed out of their own lands by the Krytans (sound familiar?) - the Vabbian connection could come from the Losaru range extending east to the northern borders of Vabbi. The points against this possibility is that they have little reason to want to attack Cantha, and that it seems unlikely that the various clans would be communicating to plan the attacks.

With the Tengu - I don't think we actually have any information on how the Tengu of Tyria react to humanity except that they attack on sight. We only see the Sensali as having a particular hatred of humanity in contrast to the Angchu, which were willing to negotiate (and the Sensali came to the table as well, if grudgingly - they just blamed humanity as a whole for the Minister of War's misdeeds). It seems at least possible that the Tyrian tengu hate humanity at least as much as the Sensali. The points against this are your #2, and the same issue with communication as with the Centaurs. (Regarding using the Jade Brotherhood as patsies - I could see that. They're not stupid, I'm sure they can see the benefit of going for the Emperor without wasting time clearing out a human gang that's almost certainly causing the humans of Cantha more harm than good. Although even with that, POX isn't shy about killing the Brotherhood that try to defend it...)

On the whole, I threw them in just to make the list complete - those listed in my first post are all MUCH better candidates.

Actually i dont think Zinn mentions the stranger was disguised. He just says that a stranger asked him to build the Golems and since the stranger had the pieces needed he just dived into making them. Knowing how the Asura are i wouldnt be suprised if something like a Centaur or Tengu walked in and all the Asura cared about was what they were carrying. He doesnt give away who the stranger is because hes too busy trying to save....his reputation - he doesnt care who they are.

Most of the points Azazel said (No connection to Cantha and Elona for example) could also be said for the Mursaat also. We never hear of any Mursaat on ether continent.

I would say a a better point that puts the Tengu and Centaur out of the story is that this stranger had Golem parts AND he knew about the Asura. I dont think the Centaurs or Tengu are capable of acquiring Power pieces and finding the Asura.

One of the things that made me think of Lazarus was the description for taking out the power crystal of one of the Golems. It mentions a mysterious sound, like something attempting to get out. I wondered if it was Lazarus up to old tricks with surviving Mursaat (if there is any).

Anyway the entire questline was a nice homage to Moxens Master.

The two biggest things that separate the Mursaat from the Tengu and Centaur in terms of possible suspects, would be, as you said, the Mursaat have better access to power crystals/bloodstones (whichever it is), although the Queztals might as well. But the more important thing, at least to me, is that the Tengu and Centaur hate humans because of the "they are in our lands" issue. Just like the Europeans chasing the Native Americans out of their lands, humans do the same to Centaus and Tengu, and that is the only hatred there really is in Tyria for them. While the Mursaat, Lazarus mainly, hate the humans (possibly Asura as well, or just the heroes) because of what happens to him during his little quest chain in Eye of the North. He has a more "personal" vengeance. Whether he wants revenge on the whole human race (which is done by assassinating the remaining human leaders) or he wants revenge on the heroes (which is done by making us "run around in circles" trying to stop the golems, hoping one would take us out, or tire us out for his next move - if there will be one - to do the job).

I did forget about that. My bad.

This may be from simple reskin, but I believe, due to location and looks, that the Losaru and the Veldrunner Prides were once the same, but got separated by the Desolation and Palawa Joko. Some (the Losaru) were forced north, and grew resentful, and therefore hostile, while the Veldrunners, who were able to stay south, did not until recent times where they get enslaved by Varesh.

Perhaps it was whoever Vael is spying for. We know they're interested in all three continents and the leaders thereof. To that end, Vael seems to relish situations that require our heros (us) to fight, and the tougher the better in that case.

(Now hows that for left field!)

lol, left field.

I know Vael is a Jack of all Trades, who seems to know more about Tyria than even our characters. But i really dont think he would take on a job that would involve throwing the humans Tyria into Chaos. I also dont remember anything saying Vael worked exclusively for one person or group - hes a mercenary.

Oh and Linsey appears to have commented on the Mysterious Stranger. Here are three things from her comment:

1. The stranger is not some random psycho.
2. The stranger is not Bahltek.
3. The strangers indentity may be revealed at a later date....

Source (link) please?

Yes, source, please. I went to Linsey's talk page on wiki and saw nothing on the Mysterious Stranger...

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Talk:...liffhangers.3F

The note about 'something trying to escape' from the power crystal is an interesting one - could it be powered by the soul of some sacrificed unfortunate in a similar way to how the Jades are theorised to be?

It's also an interesting point regarding Vael - I don't think he ever does indicate that he's actually on our side, just that for the moment his job is to hit the Charr. This could be an enemy-of-my-enemy thing rather than his employer actually being on our side...

Or, to bring it in from even further out of the left field... what if that employer is Adelburn? We know he doesn't like Kryta, and has even less reason to like the Krytan royal family than he does the White Mantle. While he might be resentful of the Elonians and Canthans because, while he'd refuse aid from the Krytans, neither of those nations has offered. Maybe he's just going a little bonkers in general.

And that might give the players a reason why their characters haven't been helping Ascalon more...

Waaaait a second...

*checks wiki*

*goes in-game, heads out of Destiny's Gorge, and checks there*

Those sneaky little xlemfrogs! They've given the Losaru the Elonian model!

Yeah, I'd be assuming that was deliberate. They were originally reskins of the same (or, at least, a similar) model used in Maguuma and the Shiverpeaks - given that ANet's gone to the effort of changing that over, I'd guess it was deliberate.

Well, I think the Movement of the World does prove that Adelburn goes a little bonkers. He turned all of his remaining citizens into ghosts, forcing them to follow him until his son's sword is returned to the city. Which, with where it was left, is likely to look to take, so say, forever.

Although your theory makes sense. I am really tempted to say it's either Lazarus or Dhuum/Menzies. But I only say that because I want ANet to tie up at least the Dhuum/Menzies loose ends. They are getting annoying.

Yes and no. We don't really know enough about what happened there - it certainly doesn't help his case, but it could have been a last ditch do-or-die-anyway act of desperation. We also don't know what the connection is with the ghosts - were they created by the sword directly, and if so, did Adelburn know it would happen? If he did know, could it have been a choice on the part of his soldiery to make a sacrifice so the others could escape? Or could the ghosts have nothing directly to do with the sword, but come from the more 'natural' source of having died under traumatic circumstances - just like all the other ghosts that have been produced in the war between Ascalon and the Charr.

By how it was worded, I think it was a do-or-die-anyways act. I also think that these ghosts were created by the sword, because they would not be put to rest by just the returning of one of the swords. If the ghosts refused to move on from a wish of seeing something done, they would only pass on with either Ascalon being reborn or the Charr wiped out. Also, if it wasn't the power of the sword, then the ghosts would not considere everyone an enemy, just the Charr, and maybe Krytans. Also, it even states that the ghosts were "animated by the sword."

The only question is if Adelburn knew what would happen or not. I, for one, would think he knew that it would. But that won't be proven until GW2. And if he did know, why would he damn his soldiers and countrymen to a permanent war with the Charr then just letting their spirits rest in the Underworld/Fissure of Woe.

Adelburn doesnt seem to be insane/going insane. He simply doesnt give in - hes too loyal to Ascalon. The whole using the sword as a final option seems like a "If we cant have it then nobody can!" Adelburn thing.

He may not of known the full extent of the swords power, probably only knowing that it was powerful and it would wipe out the Charr, but not knowing that it would be so powerful that all of Ascalon would be wiped out and turned into a city full of spirits. Of course i'm hoping Anet dont try the "another person manipulated him into doing it" thing again.

I also dont want to go on the old "Menzies/Dhumm did it" theory we have had for the past 3 years on this one. I reckon this is an incident that wasnt caused by failures who even the gods seem to ignore.

Hate to be going off topic here but what I do hope is that in GW2, we can return to the Ruins of Ascalon City and find peace for the souls that are trapped there. (Maybe make it an elite area with a series of Quests like FoW)


On topic: Lazarus still sounds the most likely since he has the means and resources to do so. If it wasn't him, my only other guess would be Palawa since he would greatly benefit from it all but I would then wonder how he got the resources to be able to make those golems go rouge.

I think that sort of sums it up in that respect though. We know that he works as a spy for someone who is interested in all three continents, but we don't know this persons intentions. And from the bolded text, we can surmise that Vael occasionally has to do jobs that we, as the great heros and protectors and legendary defenders of the land, would not approve of. Tis just a theory, and one I don't hold a lot of faith in at that. But he's the only NPC that even really mentioned traveling among the three continents so blatantly, and there seems to be a story there that they want told. (Perhaps an expansion where we have to help Vael defeat his employer, who Vael has discovered is evil? )

And I would think Adelbern wouldn't be the candidate because of what Free Runner pointed out. He's so one track minded about Ascalon that I don't see him spending the resources to make special power crystals for golems, then send an envoy with said power crystals to see an Asura - a race that is rather new to Tyria and, I would think, sort of an outcast among xenophobes like him. If nothing else, where would he get the expertise to manufacture the power crystals? Sure, he might have heard about the golems from the Ebon Vanguard, and they may have even recovered a disabled golem. But how would anyone in Ascalon even begin to understand one of the more complicated aspects of golemancing, especially to the level shown in those three golems? Plus, there is no motive for him to attack the Princes or the Emperor. And even if it were him, why would he send them to attack the human leaders that he's probably never heard of, instead of using them against the Charr that are invading the country he holds so dear? Unless he would have tried to trace them back to the Char, but we don't have any evidence of that. Nor have we even brought up the Charr for that matter, and we're sort of looking for outlandish and convoluted ideas.

I get the impression it's a new antagonist, or a new side of a character we'd never suspect. I would almost suggest one of the ancient dragons in that case. Primordious, at least, had a general that was waking up; The Great Destroyer. That being the case, why wouldn't the other dragons have the same idea? For all we know, all three might have generals that woke up at about the same time to pave the way for their reemergence, or at least to compete with each other. Except that this general, instead of being about brute strength like the Great Destroyer, is more into cunning and subterfuge. Why build a grand army to destroy everyone when you can have three golems throw the entire world into chaos and war?

Though I'd be disappointed if they took that route, I want something more interesting.

I'm asking myself, who has experience in the game with Golemancers, who knows where to get bloodstones(how to even access one, and bypass the locks on them), who might have motives to unleash destrution or be corrupted by some force...

Livia.

We see at the end of EotN that she actually finds the Scepter of Orr, she's obsessed with it, a weapon strong enough to protect kryta. We saw what the Lich did with the scepter(or what it did to him), and she possess it at the end of EotN. Depending on when the events of the mox quests take place(continuity in this game is hard to tell) it could well be livia, scepter in hand is looking to dominate the world. Her quotes indicate she'll do anything it takes to secure peace, she perceives Evenia as soft. It may be she's kind of like Dr. Horrible... She is also a necromancer, involved with undead and arcane magic, it could be she is collaborating with Joko, if the scepter gives power over undead, she may even control him.

So basically my case:

Livia

1. She seeks weapons of mass destruction to secure peace
2. She has been involved in Golemancy under gadd(she did all the work, less the forces involved prove dangerous)
3. She (by watching gadd, and expressing an interest in 'finding gadd' quest) may know how to decipher the coded inscriptions to gain access to the blood stones, or have secreted some away for her own use.
4. She has access to the scepter of orr, an artifact that may corrupt the user, or at the very least has turned one man into a lich.
5. A Necromancer, she has clear ties to the undead, possibly with Joko.
6. She seems to have little compunction about killing to further her goals, or death and killing in general.
7. She perceives some leaders as soft or maybe weak, and sees the rest of the world as 'hell' that she herself must fight to fix.
8. a member of the shining blade, she'd know the jungle extremely well, and migt know where a certain golemancer had sequestered himself

Given access to the scepter, the blood stones, knowledge of golemancy, necromancy coupled with this psychological profile, She's my #1 suspect. Xien may be an accomplice, hired to steal the secrets of oola's lab, however the player gets there as well, livia allies herself with the player, therefore she has access to the lab and oola too, it's possible she gained access to zinn this way.

EDIT: I was sitting on the can and came up with more hairbrained conspiracy theories. I don't think the Mursaat would work like this, cloak and dagger assassinations ect. They're gods or atlest want to be perceived as such. Think of how the mursaat came into power in Kryta, they saved the krytans from the charr, what droves the charr(or at least what can we deduce drove them based on the evidence, the charr effigies, the heirophants teachings ect), The Titans, who controls the Titan's prison door? The Mursaat(if they paroled a titan, sent it to the charr territories and said, "be a god, lead the charr in destruction and we free you" i think it would have taken the opportunity) . The Mursaat seem to have savior complex, if adelbern had been less stubborn, the white mantle could have moved into ascalon, helped push the charr out, Lead by Rurik the same way Saul Delasio lead the first mantle. Rurik was very open to the krytans iirc, desperate one might say(look at his speech during Ruins of Surmia... Just look at it lol..), he may have "converted" to the unseen ones, and been taken the same way Saul was. The ultimate goal being to establish a way to hunt "chosen" in ascalon(they failed to do this, though were successful ultimately as rurik left and took the chosen with him across the shiverpeaks).

Assassination doesn't seem the Mursaat MO.

Joko has no access to a bloodstone, or is very far from it, no obvious connections... His MO is hoards of undead.

Had the assassination been successful the white mantle would have been blamed and purged by a united shining blade, probably lead by livia this time(evenia is week...) with the scepter and hoards of undead to do the work.

Had the attempt in Elona worked, the kournans might have taken the blame, they have no apparent leader now that varesh ossa is dead, the 2 remaining princes might suspect each other, or turn on the kournans or at least be distracted enough to let joko's armies march through elona much easier then otherwise. Holding the scepter and her own army livia could subjugate Joko and his minions.(side note livia's target bokka might, besides being an obviously weak target for assassination, she might resent that he fled to hide in his treasure city during the people's time of need)

Had the attempt in cantha worked P.O.X. probably would have taken out the whole royal family, or at least plunged the imperial bureaucracy into chaos(a bureaucracy that doesn't care for it's own citizens, that gives them mirrors instead of food and medicine), this makes a power vacuum, one that livia with undead armies and super weapons could fill. She brings order to the big city, to the luxon and kurzick territories...

Huh... VIVA LIVIA!

Erm...Livia was with the SB who were working to restore Salma to power. If she was indeed the mastermind behind all this her original intentions would be for nothing. She also wants to save Kryta - not throw Cantha and Elona into turmoil.

We're also never actually given a timeframe on the events after EotN. Livia could still be searching for the Scepter. She last mentions that she would be visiting Arah (which is at the bottom of the sea but we'll roll with it) so i'm guessing she doesnt just walk off and find it in a day. The time of that piece of the cinematic could be years after the Great Destroyers defeat.

And you do understand the Mursaats numbers are not confirmed right?. As far as we know Lazarus is the last leader of the Mursaat - assuming there are more they couldnt possibly pull off the old "trick humans into worshiping us" stunt. They are no longer the old Mursaat - i would guess they are getting desperate. Cloak and dagger stuff is probably the only thing they can pull off at the moment - saving Kryta again isnt exactly in their options.

Oh and i dont think its the Ancient Dragons. They have years to go before they awaken. If the Movement of the World is correct, it sounds like the Ancient Dragons are a rumour to anyone that isnt an Agent of Whispers. It also sounds like they hate all races so why would they only make hell for the humans?. I reckon they have a long wait before they can start their mindless destructon (OT: The Ancient Dragons are starting to remind me of the WEAPON's from FF7).

I cant think of another race other than the Mursaat or Humans that could pull off getting the power crystals, finding then tricking an Asura and then getting away with it all. The only thing that could surely top both is a Forgotton Agent working for the all knowing Glint who has forseen the future and decided to take action quick (Please dont). I'm becoming very sure that its ether the Mursaat or a new antagonist/evil group that Anet want to foreshadow for GW2.

I'll be the first one to propose this: http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Seer.

This would make sense if Anet is trying to tie off loose ends before gw2.

I did bring up a Charr Shaman as a possibility. It's just that no one expanded on it.

I don't think it has to deal with the Ancient Dragons, because 1. They are not known in the world yet, so no followers other then their personal generals that are also hibernating, and 2. If it was a general of one of the other four (there are 5 Ancient Dragons, Primordus, Drakkar, Grothmar, Deep Sea, and Orrian), then the other dragons would wake up before Primordus.

Ugh. This came up on GWO as well. I was REALLY hoping that it would not make it's way to guru. Because of how idiotic it sounds.

Sure Livia might do "anything" for her people. But would killing Salma help her people? No.

Also, the scepter didn't change Vizier Khilbron. The scroll and Abaddon's power did.

The Scepter isn't a "weapon of mass destruction."

Gadd never shows evidence of using golems until the mission G.O.L.E.M. Gadd just researched power sources, which was his job in the mission. Oola was the golemancer.

All of the Shining Blade had an interest in the Bloodstone by wanting to use them as a weapon against the White Mantle.

Again, the Scepter didn't corrupt anyone, Abaddon corrupted Khilbron.

ties to undead only in the fact that she can be a minion master. Minions are not true undead. And there is nothing to support knowledge of joko.

Only in the sense of killing her enemies and not minding a few casualties.

"I may work for the Shining Blade, but I'm not like Evennia. I'm not pure and I'm not kind. I used to be shining... but I got tarnished."

No where does she call Evennia soft. She called her pure and kind. And that herself is not.

No evidence that the Falls was Zinn's original place, but his hideout after. Zinn was "well known" before and didn't mind visitors if they came to him for wanting him to build golems.

1. The titan escaped the Realm of Torment 200 years ago. I do not think that the Mursaat planned that far ahead. ALSO, they keep the door locked, and nothing shows evidence that they know what is behind the door. They just know it will bring their destruction, And so why would they let something out that would bring their destruction? They wouldn't.

And with their few numbers now, to get revenge, assassination through other's deeds would do just fine for them.

Had any assassination been successful, the blame would go to Zinn and the Asuras. It was under Zinn's name that the orders came from, his reputation would get ruined, the humans would want revenge on him and all other Asuras (similar to the Tengu Wars, the Charr, the Mursaat... etc. etc.)

At least the livia theory on GWO was easy to read and not full of typos and poor grammar. x.x I need to rest my brain.

I would have to agree that there is some time between the cinematic and livia finding the scepter. I'd guess like around 3 years, max. And not all of Arah has to be at the bottom of the sea, seeing how no one would technically have a map of Orr how it is now, it would be hard to tell which parts are underwater. And not all of Arah is underwater. Although I'm sure that was a typo and was meant to say visit Orr. I would think that Zinn and M.O.X. is just a few months to a year after the times of EN. (There needs to be time for the Asuras to be known in all three continents).

I can see the Tengu (specifically the Quetzal and/or Caromi Tengu) The Quetzal have the location for the Asura, the Caromi have the need. Same with Sensali. Maybe they are all in communications?

That's actually a good thought. All we know of them is that they are an ancient race and dislike the Mursaat and Titans. Nothing else is known about them. They might dislike humans as well.

Considering Arah was the source of the explosion that caused it to sink in the first place i would say a good part of it is underwater. The borders of it are probably still above water but i wouldnt exactly call that Arah. Livia makes it sound like its still above water. I would agree on a possible typo.

While the Quetzal may know where the Asura are i doubt they could get the resources needed for the Golems. They also dont seem to be into using other things to attack races. If the Tengu wanted to do something i believe they would of done it themselves. Call it honor if you will.

Theres also the fact that Zinn mentions it was one person. I would think from previous encounters with the Tengu, they would of sent a couple in due to how untrustworthy they think everything is. Zinn made it sound like this person can actually just appear out of nowere.

Also while the Seer is indeed a good guess we have little to no information on them. Its hard to pin the crime down on something you dont know about. Technically they have not been seen or heard from for at least 6 years (7 or 8 depending on when M.O.X and Co were created). We dont know if they hate humans or not - we only know that they seem to have a grudge against the Mursaat and Titans.

All we know about the Seers is that they didnt like the mursaat. The mursaat wanted to stop the titans and the titans were under the influence of Abaddon. So, we can then guess that the seers were working for Abaddon. Abaddon wanted to spread nightfall and kill humans. During the end of Prophecies, we can assume that the only reason why they were helping us was to defeat the mursaat and allow the release of the titans. IF this much is true, then the seers also hate humans and have motive to order the golems to kill the human leaders of the 3 continents. The Seers also resemble the Margonite Seers giving us other reason to believe that they are related to Abaddon.

The Seers are highly unlikely to follow Abaddon. Your theory fails at the fact that the Seers also wanted to stop the Titans. If they disliked the Titans, then they wouldn't be followers of Abaddon, Menzies, or Dhuum.

And the so called resemblance between the Seers and the Margonite Seers... I don't see it... at all.

I see now that the Seer at the end of Hell's Precipice is against the titans since it wants us to kill them for the bonus. but there is definately a similarity between the seers and the margonites

http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Image:Seer.JPG

http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imag..._Anur_Kaya.jpg

They both float, have 4 arms, 2 of which are crossed in the middle, and have similar legs that come to a point at the toe.
However, all this proves is that they may be physically related somehow, not that their viewpoints are related.
Nevertheless, the seers are still a complete mystery.

I think the similarities you stated are just re-used models. Like the Margonite Warlocks/Mursaat and the Margonite Ascendant and Lich/Stone Rains.

Someone we've overlooked is Xien. He was trying to steal the secrets of Oolas Lab but never made it to the last floor. He could of just been hunting the secrets to sell off to the highest bidder, or he could of been working for someone else who wanted those secrets. He is rather mysterious.

Xien is actually the first person I thought of when I read the manual, which I noted over on GWO. However, my thought of him being possible vanished when I remembered that the characters kill him. Never thought that he could be working for someone though. (I have a bit of a one track mind >.>)

It's a shame that neither wiki has his dialogue. Now I'm going to have to go through the dungeon's first level to know what he says. Might be a hint as to if he just sells to the highest bidder or works for someone.