What can be clearly seen, the UA nerf was directed at ghost running, which a-net sees as an exploit in the game because heros don't trigger mobs to spawn. Now if A-net want to be consistant, what next needs to be nerfed is both luxon and kurzick HFFF.
These only work because of the same exploit used by ghost running, the heroes don't trigger the mobs to spawn, so they can just run care free to the quest points. Plus these are easily botable.
Now will they do it? I don't know, but yesterday they stated that abusing the fact that heroes do not spawn mobs is an exploit. But this is the most popular activity on the kurzick side to get faction, dunno if the blacklash would prevent them from closing this exploit too. Also how would this favor in there new message of trying to reduce grind.
All I do know is that in A-nets eyes, HFFF is an exploit.
Next on the Nerf Block, the HFFF
Shadowmoon
Tyla
UA was also being abused in other areas of the game, although heroes should trigger mob spawn aswell as players.
Leonhart
The heroes for HFFF use shadow form to block any attacks anyway, the only way to nerf it would to make it that heroes/hench not activate location markers.
Artisan Archer
Not gonna happen.
Martin Alvito
There's a key point you're missing here that kills your argument.
HFFF has been around for a long, long, long time.
ANet kills exploits that change the existing state of the economy. If ANet implements an exploit that permits players to farm ecto five times faster than they did before, they're going to kill it. Ditto if the exploit permits players to run a dungeon with a super-rare drop extremely fast.
There are faster ways of making money than HFFF if you're at the keyboard. Presumably it's easy to catch and ban HFFF bots. So this really isn't a problem.
ANet isn't consistent. They don't care about all exploits, and it takes them forever to close a large number of them. (There was no reason in the world for UA to go on like that for a month; it was patently obvious it was broken the second it was rebalanced.)
In this case, there's a strong player demand for HFFF for the purpose of getting faction and the 30th max title, not money. While this would not be the first time that ANet closed an "exploit" long after it became well-known, the game's economy is not in peril. Personally I doubt that they'll close it; in any event it's unlikely to happen before October.
HFFF has been around for a long, long, long time.
ANet kills exploits that change the existing state of the economy. If ANet implements an exploit that permits players to farm ecto five times faster than they did before, they're going to kill it. Ditto if the exploit permits players to run a dungeon with a super-rare drop extremely fast.
There are faster ways of making money than HFFF if you're at the keyboard. Presumably it's easy to catch and ban HFFF bots. So this really isn't a problem.
ANet isn't consistent. They don't care about all exploits, and it takes them forever to close a large number of them. (There was no reason in the world for UA to go on like that for a month; it was patently obvious it was broken the second it was rebalanced.)
In this case, there's a strong player demand for HFFF for the purpose of getting faction and the 30th max title, not money. While this would not be the first time that ANet closed an "exploit" long after it became well-known, the game's economy is not in peril. Personally I doubt that they'll close it; in any event it's unlikely to happen before October.
Gill Halendt
AFAIK, there's really no spawn avoided using heroes in the HFFF runs thanks to such an exploit. Heroes run in the four spots and need Shadow Form to get there safely. Without SF, they just die, just like a human runner. Spawns are triggered as soon as the repeatable quest is taken by any player in the area.
The real problem with HFFF is you have heroes doing a mission you don't even have in your questlog yet, then get the quest and the completion reward soon after. Heroes shouldn't be able to activate any part of a quest for you, that's it.
The real problem with HFFF is you have heroes doing a mission you don't even have in your questlog yet, then get the quest and the completion reward soon after. Heroes shouldn't be able to activate any part of a quest for you, that's it.
Shadowmoon
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Originally Posted by Leonhart
The heroes for HFFF use shadow form to block any attacks anyway, the only way to nerf it would to make it that heroes/hench not activate location markers.
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Even if you perma SF your heroes, which would be alot more work, they would probably get body blocked by mobs on the way to the points. Heck the stairs and the shore runner are in range for that huge sin boss group.
Allowing heroes to spawn mobs would force you to perma sf them, and pray to not get body blocked.
Rakim B
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Originally Posted by Shadowmoon
No they use Shadowform to get past the first set of mobs to get off radar, then it can drop and they can go care free to the quest markers.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Shadowmoon
Even if you perma SF your heroes, which would be alot more work, they would probably get body blocked by mobs on the way to the points..
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Shayne Hawke
If they considered HFFF an exploit, I figure they would have fixed that a long time ago, or they would have tried to address that in this most recent update.
Dronte
HFFF isnt an exploit. UA was.
SmokingHotImolation
I dont think they will nerf it, because its simple a too large part of the game. Kinda like Protective Spirit.
Davros Uitar
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Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke
If they considered HFFF an exploit, I figure they would have fixed that a long time ago, or they would have tried to address that in this most recent update.
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While I am at it, what is with crying out for the death of HFF as retribution for the loss of UA. Did some runner refuse service in another life or are perhaps the grapes a little sour?
Edit - and while on the topic - the changes to UA - a nerf - really??? Didn't they just fix what was badly and inexcusably broken? Hardly deserving of the negative connotations of the word NERF - at least not in my view.
Dark Paladin X
kurz have a very good FFF, I'm PO'ed at the fact that the lux FFF (jade arena) takes even longer.
zwei2stein
It took em year to nerf "U" so HFFF nerf can happen anytime.
Windf0rce
Why nerf HFFF after pretty much everyone maxed their ranks using it? Too late IMHO, just leave it the way it is so newer player can do the same all old ones did.....
N1ghtstalker
HFFF exists very long now
they'd be seriously over time to nerf this
they'd be seriously over time to nerf this
4thVariety
If HFFF yields more rewards than regular play, then something is wrong no matter how you look at it. It's closely related to the discussion about afk leeching in Alliance Battles and the way Anet dealt with the problem there. All patches told the users: If you bang your head on a wall repeatedly, we are going to reward you the most, as long as nobody else is complaining about it.
Hence afk and Ursan were nerfed (too much community QQ), while other farming methods and HFFF are still in there.
Hence afk and Ursan were nerfed (too much community QQ), while other farming methods and HFFF are still in there.
Improvavel
Even if u take the quest too soon, chances of body block aren't that high. When I started doing that I took quest really fast and was able to finish it with no problems most of the time.
Turbobusa
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Originally Posted by Dronte
HFFF isnt an exploit. UA was.
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It is exploiting the fact that heroes don't trigger monsters spawn.
It is exactly the same principle as UA.
Except UA was used for its infinite res range.
It also gives a title that would require dedication to stupid people, makes survivor a walk in a park, and gives money.
Snow Bunny
Just because Arenanet nerfed something stupid doesn't mean they're going to nerf anything else.
Emunator
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Turbobusa
It also gives a title that would require dedication to stupid people, makes survivor a walk in a park, and gives money.
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Abnaxus
The whole title is wrongly designed, GWAMM is wrongly designed, A.net knows this very well and has left HFFF in game to avoid criticism, and give PvE players the possibility to achieve GWAMM although this requires 400+ hours just for 1 PvE title.
Those who have the title know what I'm talking about.
Those who have the title know what I'm talking about.
HawkofStorms
Won't happen. Kurzick/Luxon titles are basically impossible without FFFs, and A.net knows this.
BrettM
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Originally Posted by Emunator
Uhhh, where do i miss the point, i would have to die to get ressed by UA, not very good for a survivor i guess
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Though I really have to disagree that it requires "dedication" to max Kurzick without HFFF. More like complete insanity.
Abnaxus
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Originally Posted by HawkofStorms
Won't happen. Kurzick/Luxon titles are basically impossible without FFFs, and A.net knows this.
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HFFF gives factions at 2x the rate of AB, and in the AB weekend you can get from AB more or less the same amount of faction as HFFF.
With HFFF the title requires roughly 400 hours, with AB maybe something close to 800 hours.
So it's not impossible, just incoherently designed compared to other PvE titles.
RiKio
Hmm, if they buff the rewars earned on AB/CM, then I would let Anet nerf HFFF....only if so.
oeg82000
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Originally Posted by Windf0rce
Why nerf HFFF after pretty much everyone maxed their ranks using it? Too late IMHO, just leave it the way it is so newer player can do the same all old ones did.....
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why you ppl worry about hfff runs? if you think it must be nerfed,there are lot of other what should be herfed then too-like ss,lb,norn,but if those would be nerfed,not many ppl would do those titles(and its only for titles,not money)
sorry for my bad eglsh
Striken7
HFFF wont be nerfed because it doesn't use an exploit.
Heroes not triggering mobs was not the exploit that allowed ghost running, it was UA having infinite range - and that exploit was fixed.
Heroes not triggering mobs was not the exploit that allowed ghost running, it was UA having infinite range - and that exploit was fixed.
legacyofkain85
lol if u want to end hfff,than end fff runs to ,easy way to finish them both is to make the quest non repetable ,but then plz present me with a viable way of maxing lets say kurzick and luxon titles and dont even mension competitive missions because that isnt a viable way,i mean u need what 100days doing hfff 4-5 hours day to max kurzick,picture getting 5 million faction trough ab to max kurzick title that would be hilarious
edit:and about heroes not trigerring the mobs spawn ,yes it can be considered as an exploit in the hfff runs,so if they fix that ,maybe hfff runs will not be seen as an ¨exploit¨in some people´s eye,altho it will matter not matter much since hero bars contain shadow form
edit:and about heroes not trigerring the mobs spawn ,yes it can be considered as an exploit in the hfff runs,so if they fix that ,maybe hfff runs will not be seen as an ¨exploit¨in some people´s eye,altho it will matter not matter much since hero bars contain shadow form
Magikarp
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Originally Posted by zwei2stein
It took em year to nerf "U" so HFFF nerf can happen anytime.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Windf0rce
Why nerf HFFF after pretty much everyone maxed their ranks using it? Too late IMHO, just leave it the way it is so newer player can do the same all old ones did.....
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by N1ghtstalker
HFFF exists very long now
they'd be seriously over time to nerf this |
Kattar
Who cares? I mean really? It's not an exploit or bug or whatever.
Why do people keep saying this needs to be nerfed? Jealous Luxons?
Why do people keep saying this needs to be nerfed? Jealous Luxons?
Vamis Threen
Why are people always crying out for the nerf-bat to get swinging? "Someone's having fun? Outrageous! Must be nerfed!" Why do you care? And if you intend to mention the "economy" in your response, go to the back of the class.
PS FYI I've never done Ursan nor HFFF, and never equipped UA.
PS FYI I've never done Ursan nor HFFF, and never equipped UA.
SOF
Yes they nerfed UA, but it was nerfed because it was an overpowered rez that allowed Ghost running.
HFFF is different matter, it's not like your character can exploit it to get to near enough any outpost you desire that is reachable through running with great ease.
HFFF will remain the way it is.
HFFF is different matter, it's not like your character can exploit it to get to near enough any outpost you desire that is reachable through running with great ease.
HFFF will remain the way it is.
A11Eur0
What's wrong with being able to run yourself to any outpost? They said they didn't care about running. You still can't run in NF or Factions to any outpost because there are quests/missions required for you to continue the storyline anyway. Why not make it easier to get to these quests/missions and skip the fluff (that we've completed time and time again) on new characters?
If they nerfed UA for bogroot...they should have changed bogroot instead of UA. They changed UA because it made PvE less time-consuming to get your characters where you need them to go...thus that's less "content" to work through, so people would get bored sooner and lose interest in GW2.
In fact, I might just call off GW2 because it's apparent that all Anet/NCSoft wants are mindless drones playing their game rather than inventive players. Or maybe they just want inventive players in PvP and the PvE'ers can go sit and spin?
If they nerfed UA for bogroot...they should have changed bogroot instead of UA. They changed UA because it made PvE less time-consuming to get your characters where you need them to go...thus that's less "content" to work through, so people would get bored sooner and lose interest in GW2.
In fact, I might just call off GW2 because it's apparent that all Anet/NCSoft wants are mindless drones playing their game rather than inventive players. Or maybe they just want inventive players in PvP and the PvE'ers can go sit and spin?
Magikarp
Quote:
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Originally Posted by A11Eur0
What's wrong with being able to run yourself to any outpost? They said they didn't care about running. You still can't run in NF or Factions to any outpost because there are quests/missions required for you to continue the storyline anyway. Why not make it easier to get to these quests/missions and skip the fluff (that we've completed time and time again) on new characters?
If they nerfed UA for bogroot...they should have changed bogroot instead of UA. They changed UA because it made PvE less time-consuming to get your characters where you need them to go...thus that's less "content" to work through, so people would get bored sooner and lose interest in GW2. In fact, I might just call off GW2 because it's apparent that all Anet/NCSoft wants are mindless drones playing their game rather than inventive players. Or maybe they just want inventive players in PvP and the PvE'ers can go sit and spin? |
Khasar
Ahh who cares about HFFF?
I say nerf [Visions of Regret]. I'm kinda surprised it wasnt nerfed in this last update actually. That skill just kills in PvP. Maybe a split so that mesmers can keep one of their only good damage elites for PvE.
I say nerf [Visions of Regret]. I'm kinda surprised it wasnt nerfed in this last update actually. That skill just kills in PvP. Maybe a split so that mesmers can keep one of their only good damage elites for PvE.
Dr.Jones
the kuzick hfff is infently easier then the luxon one. i think that if they neffed or buffed it so they were equal would be the fairest thing to do.
O Nuxtofulakas
if something is wrong Anet should fix it no matter how many days, months or years passed since it was highlighted for the very first time...
The fact that Anets moves slow...very very very slow...doesn't mean that an "exploit" will stop being an exploit cause Anet didn't react in time...
In the meantime (yes it can be a long long period) players can benefit from the exploit...you cannot blame them for that...it was not their fault...but asking to keep the "exploit" as part of the game cause we are used getting advantage of it and making our gw life easier/more profitable (put whatever you want here)...then...it's hilarious...
"Perfection is the child of time."
Joseph Hall
The fact that Anets moves slow...very very very slow...doesn't mean that an "exploit" will stop being an exploit cause Anet didn't react in time...
In the meantime (yes it can be a long long period) players can benefit from the exploit...you cannot blame them for that...it was not their fault...but asking to keep the "exploit" as part of the game cause we are used getting advantage of it and making our gw life easier/more profitable (put whatever you want here)...then...it's hilarious...
"Perfection is the child of time."
Joseph Hall
zwei2stein
HFFF itself is not wrong. It is just consequence of Factions titles being what they are.
Nerf of HFFF is more than closing exploits. Its making some stuff unreachable.
Nerf of HFFF is more than closing exploits. Its making some stuff unreachable.
MithranArkanere
Bleh. Books and change the bonus points system to favor those that clear areas instead those that just kill bosses or make missions.
Then make each factions repeatble quest give a token, and change them so you have to collect one token from each mission, then give them to an NPC, in order to make them reset.
So people would have to make each repeatable mission once, instead just one that a bot can do again and again.
Then make each factions repeatble quest give a token, and change them so you have to collect one token from each mission, then give them to an NPC, in order to make them reset.
So people would have to make each repeatable mission once, instead just one that a bot can do again and again.