Thursday November 13, 2008 - update notes - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Ate of DK

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Oct 2005

Netherlands

None but Fools [nuts]

21 Nov 2008 at 16:25 - 721

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

ANIMALS!
How can you live among such creatures?!?!?

YES! And they are Germans too.

I'm the lonely Dutchman in the German Alliance (for almost 3 years now) and they changed my Teamspeak channel into: "At Ate's it's legal!" Referring to the Dutch drug policy. Those ANIMALS.

MStarfire

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2007

[SOS]

Rt/

21 Nov 2008 at 16:29 - 722

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

Sure there is, so I didn't get the best I could have. They have a simple way to know if a character has done a mission or not. They have an algorithm that keeps tracks of progression through the game for each character and determines wether the icon of those outposts is crossed with swords, spears or whatever after you've done them.

Well, actually, they DON'T track the number of times the mission is completed, they track if you've beaten it, what reward you got, and if you do a mission more than once, it just updates your reward (assuming you earned a better reward than what's on file). They do not track how many times you've done a mission. So, you're an idiot.

Quote:

We didn't get the best we could get for NO APPARENT REASON. When asked, we were said it was technically possible, they were about to do it, then reconsidered it because of "economy"... So..

So they gave you a reason.

Quote:

Oh well, they do!

And they made their decision based on their experience dealing with something they created. You're in no position to tell them they're wrong just because you're greedy.

Quote:

But wait, you don't care. You apparently care about nothing. GW is just an ammass of pixel, so who cares?

I'm with you on this. It's just a game. I'm actually making a matter of principle out of a game... And admitedly that's not worth my time, expecially when people just don't care about anything that has no significance to them.

You sound like my ex.

Quote:

We're just discussing about an update. No one here has gone @ Anet Headquarters gun in hand requesting a fix. No one is taking Anet to the Court for a break of the terms of the EULA for not getting the update as expected. No point in that, since it's up to Anet to decide what to put into the game.

If you truly agree with that, why are you still complaining, and why are you tolerating the complaints of others?

Quote:

We're just discussing, which is the sole purpose of forums like these. So, I'll stop complaining. This thread is going circular anyway, so any further contribution is meaningless. You just stop bitching, since you don't care about fictional values and you obviously don't want to discuss.

Nobody has been "discussing" since about page 24. People are just /baawwwing over not getting the reward they think they're entitled to. I really hope in the further comments Anet releases they take a good hard look at the rampant greed in this game and actually take some of our rewards away. They never will, because that's blatantly making people unhappy, and they have a product to sell.

wazz

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2007

WML, MELL, RUNI

P/

21 Nov 2008 at 16:39 - 723

"This is a damned if you do, damned if you don't" situation for anet.

If they do hand out the retroactive books; people will make a problem out of it too.

Anet can't do what everyone wants; they can only try to please as many people as possible while trying to piss off as less as possible.

Personally; I think anet did one hell of a job to avoid the minefield a "title update" would be. This shows that anet actually knows what they're doing.

Just think off it,
- they didn't "cheapen" the luxon/kurzick title...
- they got rid of FFF, this way people can't complain anet waisted resources as the "only" way of getting the title is still FFF...
etc.

They didn't make the books retroactive. True.

But do we really need it ?

I don't think anyone here completed any faction mission before this update assuming that anet might one day give faction for completing them.

I can understand some people with multiple characters are angry. But try to look rational at it, you didn't complete all those missions because of the faction, but for some other reason.

PS: thanks to this update; the deep is "alive" again (urgoz too I suppose).
Ah the drama in the deep, how I missed that :-p

Takeko Nakano

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Great Britain

W/P

21 Nov 2008 at 17:05 - 724

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

I really hope ANET stands their ground. To cave in, to about 40 or 50 people who have been whining about parts of the update they don't like, would not be a good idea in my opinion. It would only prove that holding your breathe and kicking your feet works.

So if you go to a restaurant, order food and it is served to you cold/under seasoned/otherwise not as it should be but still edible, you just tuck in to it and eat it anyway? Most normal people who stand up for their rights actually would send it back and demand a fresh one properly served. If the restaurant refused, they would then leave (and not pay the bill for what they had eaten).

We are demanding far less from ANet than a person in that situation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

How about: D. "Stop whining, you did the missions in the first place without the promise of a faction reward, and now you have the option to do them again to get some faction. Or do a challenge mission. Or vanquish. Or FA/JQ. Or AB. Or don't do it at all, we really don't care, but stop expecting handouts when we just gave you so much cool new stuff."

You obviously have never worked in customer relations. If you had you would know that the way to retain your customer base is to be nice to them. If they ask for something that they probably would be justified in getting that you are now offering (we've done the missions, so why should we do them again?) and you can deliver it, you do that.

If on the other hand your reply is rude, customers will go away and join another company. Your view may be "if you don't want to play GW/GW2 that's you choice", but it is certainly not ANet's if they have any business sense. They will want to retain as many players as possible. So whilst they may come up with a poor reason if they do not make books retroactive, they will be as pleasant/apologetic as possible.

Word of advice - don't go into a line of work that involves customer/client relations.

Cluebag

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2008

Mo/

21 Nov 2008 at 17:06 - 725

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyy High

And to follow up with Ate: I'm literally the only person in my alliance who reads forums, and one of about 5 who even reads the update notes/official wiki on a regular basis. When something big like this happens and I start trying to relate what's happening to them, I get the equivalent of a bunch of blank stares, followed by something along the lines of, "Why do people care so much again?", which is then followed by a call to vanquish something or do a dungeon.

Most people are too busy having fun to worry about crap like this. As much as I've learned from forums, sometimes I wish I never joined as well...

Well, this somewhat holds true in any community or society. I would posit that most people are oblivious to most things, unless an issue falls directly into their lap. Because they may not be aware of an issue or its not affecting them directly, it doesn't mean that that particular issue doesn't exist or should be dismissed. I could cite countless examples of both ingame and real life situations where this happens. The first thing that came to mind tho was a rl example.

We don't have much violent crime in our neighborhood. In other neighborhoods there are daily shootings and gang activity and all kinds of problems. Because crime is not directly impacting my life at home, would I be justified in calling all the crime victims a bunch of whiners, tell em to suck it up and be thankful that they don't live in country X, and vote to cut funding to the police department, because I'm relatively unaffected by these "non-problems"? Because I'm oblivious to the problems in those areas, they aren't really "real" problems, but "perceived" problems by a bunch of loud crybabies who are too stupid/lazy/whatever and have nothing better to do with their time other than to complain about their entitlement issues?

I'm not trying to suggest that the quote implies this, nor am I trying to put words into your mouth, so please don't take that from this. It was just an example of how the sentiments of one side of an argument often comes across, especially when its glaringly obvious that some people arguing here clearly either ignore or dismiss the perspective from the opposite side of an issue.

Frozy

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2006

21 Nov 2008 at 17:11 - 726

Quote:

Originally Posted by MStarfire

1 - Well, actually, they DON'T track the number of times the mission is completed, they track if you've beaten it, what reward you got, and if you do a mission more than once, it just updates your reward (assuming you earned a better reward than what's on file). They do not track how many times you've done a mission. So, you're an idiot.

2 - So they gave you a reason.

3 - And they made their decision based on their experience dealing with something they created. You're in no position to tell them they're wrong just because you're greedy.

4 - You sound like my ex.

5 - If you truly agree with that, why are you still complaining, and why are you tolerating the complaints of others?

6 - Nobody has been "discussing" since about page 24. People are just /baawwwing over not getting the reward they think they're entitled to. I really hope in the further comments Anet releases they take a good hard look at the rampant greed in this game and actually take some of our rewards away. They never will, because that's blatantly making people unhappy, and they have a product to sell.

1 - He didn't say it counts how many times it's done, and you call him an idiot for saying that (while he didn't)
Moderators, why is this troll not banned yet?

2 - That's not a reason, that's an excuse that's been proven to be nonsense.
We are still waiting for a reason.

3 - If it comes "from their experience", then they should explain the situation to us, because all the facts point against them.
And he's not greedy, he asks for fair treatment, you on the other hand tell us to "stop complaining" just because you don't like what you see, because it benefits YOU, not because it's fair.

4 - Personal attacks again.
I repeat : Moderators, why is this troll not banned yet?

5 - (not a question for me)

6 - We have already discussed, raised facts and we now wait for your side or Anet to prove why we're wrong, all we get are replies in the style of "stop complaining because it doesn't concern us", nothing to support your claims.

Gill Halendt

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

21 Nov 2008 at 17:12 - 727

Quote:

Originally Posted by MStarfire

Well, actually, they DON'T track the number of times the mission is completed, they track if you've beaten it, what reward you got, and if you do a mission more than once, it just updates your reward (assuming you earned a better reward than what's on file). They do not track how many times you've done a mission.

One book for completion is what is being asked here. Just that. Had you spent a minute to read the "complaints" before leaving your assumption to rampage free you could have realized it.

So, you have an MS in Mathematics. I'm a graduate engineer, IT technician and programmer. I assure you that NOTHING prevents them to make a book retroactive for completion, unless the game is programmed so badly they don't know how to fix it anymore. Regina herself said books could have been retroactive (so it's feasible), but they ended up not doing them so to preserve economy. This is where the thread started.

But wait, you're here just for the lulz, so you obviously haven't read anything, don't even know what you're saying and, still, you don't have any argument.

Have fun laughing. I do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MStarfire

So, you're an idiot.

Is this the best you can come up with? Cheap insults? You obviously have not much left to say.

MStarfire

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2007

[SOS]

Rt/

21 Nov 2008 at 17:34 - 728

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frozy

1 - He didn't say it counts how many times it's done, and you call him an idiot for saying that (while he didn't)
Moderators, why is this troll not banned yet?

First, I'm not a troll, and you're not a moderator, nor do they need to listen to you.

Quote:

2 - That's not a reason, that's an excuse that's been proven to be nonsense.
We are still waiting for a reason.

Have you maybe considered you don't deserve a reason?

Quote:

3 - If it comes "from their experience", then they should explain the situation to us, because all the facts point against them.
And he's not greedy, he asks for fair treatment, you on the other hand tell us to "stop complaining" just because you don't like what you see, because it benefits YOU, not because it's fair.

What "facts"? There are no "facts". There is only "omg he gest better rewards than I do" and "well you COULD give us more but you won't so I'm going to cry!"

And by the way, I LOVE what I see. You people are worth more laughs than the best comedy on TV.

Quote:

4 - Personal attacks again.
I repeat : Moderators, why is this troll not banned yet?

lol

Quote:

6 - We have already discussed, raised facts and we now wait for your side or Anet to prove why we're wrong, all we get are replies in the style of "stop complaining because it doesn't concern us", nothing to support your claims.

Again, you have no facts. You have greed and complaints.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

One book for completion is what is being asked here. Just that. Had you spent a minute to read the "complaints" before leaving your assumption to rampage free you could have realized it.

So you're asking for more than you're entitled to. That's my whole point. You did the missions once without the promise of a huge reward, yet now you think you deserve one?

I'm going to paint another picture. Suppose Anet decided to make the Ursan nerf RETROACTIVE. That means everyone who earned Legendary Vanquisher with Ursan would have the title taken away. It's the exact same thing, yet nobody is begging for this.

Quote:

So, you have an MS in Mathematics. I'm a graduate engineer, IT technician and programmer. I assure you that NOTHING prevents them to make a book retroactive for completion, unless the game is programmed so badly they don't know how to fix it anymore. Regina herself said books could have been retroactive (so it's feasible), but they ended up not doing them so to preserve economy. This is where the thread started.

Don't care.

Quote:

But wait, you're here just for the lulz, so you obviously haven't read anything, don't even know what you're saying and, still, you don't have any argument.

Have fun laughing. I do.

Is this the best you can come up with? Cheap insults? You obviously have not much left to say.

I have plenty left to say, but you're still an idiot.

Flossie

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2007

Mo/

21 Nov 2008 at 17:41 - 729

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeko Nakano

So if you go to a restaurant, order food and it is served to you cold/under seasoned/otherwise not as it should be but still edible, you just tuck in to it and eat it anyway? Most normal people who stand up for their rights actually would send it back and demand a fresh one properly served. If the restaurant refused, they would then leave (and not pay the bill for what they had eaten).

We are demanding far less from ANet than a person in that situation.

So, to stretch worthless allegories even further, if you go to a restaurant, enjoy the food, pay for your meal and leave, yet notice a year later that they're offering free gifts with the meal you had a year ago, do you return to the restaurant to complain that it's not fair that new diners get stuff for free that you didn't get when you ate there?

Pointless allegories are pointless.

MStarfire

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2007

[SOS]

Rt/

21 Nov 2008 at 17:51 - 730

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flossie

So, to stretch worthless allegories even further, if you go to a restaurant, enjoy the food, pay for your meal and leave, yet notice a year later that they're offering free gifts with the meal you had a year ago, do you return to the restaurant to complain that it's not fair that new diners get stuff for free that you didn't get when you ate there?

Pointless allegories are pointless.

This is perfect.

Takeko Nakano

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2005

Great Britain

W/P

21 Nov 2008 at 17:53 - 731

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flossie

So, to stretch worthless allegories even further, if you go to a restaurant, enjoy the food, pay for your meal and leave, yet notice a year later that they're offering free gifts with the meal you had a year ago, do you return to the restaurant to complain that it's not fair that new diners get stuff for free that you didn't get when you ate there?

Pointless allegories are pointless.

They're only pointless if you try to make them fit something that they weren't designed to. I wasn't comparing this to eating in a restaurant, I was comparing comments about "whining" to those who don't complain about poor/unsatisfactory food.

There is no restaurant in the world that I know of that offers an all-you-can-eat buffet for a period of years for a single fee. So don't try to twist what I wrote to fit the matter regarding the update.

Rocky Raccoon

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

Massachusetts, USA

Guardians of the Cosmos

R/Mo

21 Nov 2008 at 17:54 - 732

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeko Nakano

We are demanding far less from ANet than a person in that situation.

Let me see, we who know best for all who play Guild Wars demand theses changes. We, who are probably less than 1/10 of 1 percent who play the game(I am being generous here), demand these changes. We didn't get what we wanted so it has to be changed.

DreamWind

Forge Runner

Join Date: Oct 2006

E/Mo

21 Nov 2008 at 18:01 - 733

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ate of DK

One of the problems with forums is that you never know how many people have a problem with something. Just 15 minutes ago I entered the Guild Teamspeak and informed those who were present about the "news" that will be handed out tonight on the books ("problem").

I'm a forum reader and offcourse under the impression that everyone knows that the forumcommunity is upset and discusses this "problem". The people on Teamspeak play every day, PvE and PvP, and aren't even aware that there is a "problem". And most of the time they don't want to understand it because they enjoy the game as it is.

I really don't see your point here. Most players in this game are oblivious to the balance of the game as well, but should Anet not fix that either?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MStarfire

First, I'm not a troll

That, my friend, is laughable.

MStarfire

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2007

[SOS]

Rt/

21 Nov 2008 at 18:02 - 734

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeko Nakano

They're only pointless if you try to make them fit something that they weren't designed to. I wasn't comparing this to eating in a restaurant, I was comparing comments about "whining" to those who don't complain about poor/unsatisfactory food.

There is no restaurant in the world that I know of that offers an all-you-can-eat buffet for a period of years for a single fee. So don't try to twist what I wrote to fit the matter regarding the update.

Fine. If you want your stupid allegory to be valid, then, why weren't you complaining about the faction reward back when you did the missions the first time? When you go out and eat, do you wait several years to tell them that the food wasn't good enough? Or do you tell them right then and there that you're unsatisfied?

You should just drop your little argument, it's failing.

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

21 Nov 2008 at 18:03 - 735

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flossie

So, to stretch worthless allegories even further, if you go to a restaurant, enjoy the food, pay for your meal and leave, yet notice a year later that they're offering free gifts with the meal you had a year ago, do you return to the restaurant to complain that it's not fair that new diners get stuff for free that you didn't get when you ate there?

Pointless allegories are pointless.

Yeah, lets compare something that is enjoyable to complete and utter grind that is having to REDO all missions.
That will work!
Good job!

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

21 Nov 2008 at 18:08 - 736

Disagreement and aggressive debate aren't trolling, trolling is a series of actions to bait a response for the purpose of amusement/malice.

Regardless, keep things civil.

Shasgaliel

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2008

[bomb]

21 Nov 2008 at 18:09 - 737

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeko Nakano

So if you go to a restaurant, order food and it is served to you cold/under seasoned/otherwise not as it should be but still edible, you just tuck in to it and eat it anyway? Most normal people who stand up for their rights actually would send it back and demand a fresh one properly served. If the restaurant refused, they would then leave (and not pay the bill for what they had eaten).

To that I will answer this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Takeko Nakano

No, don't use silly examples - this is a game, not real-life.

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Yeah, lets compare something that is enjoyable to complete and utter grind that is having to REDO all missions.
That will work!
Good job!

No books no grind?

Gill Halendt

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

21 Nov 2008 at 18:15 - 738

Quote:

Originally Posted by MStarfire

So you're asking for more than you're entitled to.

Asking is free. I'm not demanding. No one here is. We asked why, we were said no, because of economy. We find this answer debatable -> We'll get clarification on the Wiki by who's supposed to give it, which is not you.

You're no developer to say what I'm entitled to ask. You're no moderator to order me to stop replying here just because you think it's a complaint.

Whatever you have to say about this, I don't care.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MStarfire

I have plenty left to say, but you're still an idiot.

Go for it, will you finally say something? Something that makes SOME sense? You're still a troll.

Frozy

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2006

21 Nov 2008 at 18:21 - 739

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avarre

Disagreement and aggressive debate aren't trolling, trolling is a series of actions to bait a response for the purpose of amusement/malice.

Regardless, keep things civil.

Mmm... let's see...

Quote:

Originally Posted by MStarfire

Have you maybe considered you don't deserve a reason?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MStarfire

And by the way, I LOVE what I see. You people are worth more laughs than the best comedy on TV.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MStarfire

Don't care.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MStarfire

I have plenty left to say, but you're still an idiot.

Rocky Raccoon

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

Massachusetts, USA

Guardians of the Cosmos

R/Mo

21 Nov 2008 at 18:23 - 740

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

Asking is free. I'm not demanding. No one here is. We asked why, we were said no, because of economy. We find this answer debatable -> We'll get clarification on the Wiki by who's supposed to give it, which is not you.

You're no developer to say what I'm entitled to ask. You're no moderator to order me to stop replying here just because you think it's a complaint.

Whatever you have to say about this, I don't care.

Go for it, will you finally say something? Something that makes SOME sense? You're still a troll.

"We are demanding far less from ANet than a person in that situation." Takeko Nakano

Flossie

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2007

Mo/

21 Nov 2008 at 18:25 - 741

Quote:

Originally Posted by upier

Yeah, lets compare something that is enjoyable to complete and utter grind that is having to REDO all missions.
That will work!
Good job!

I am still unaware where in the update notes it made redoing missions mandatory. You want the stuff, you redo them. You don't, you don't. Nobody is being forced to do this stuff, if you choose to, fine.

Gill Halendt

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

21 Nov 2008 at 18:33 - 742

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

"We are demanding far less from ANet than a person in that situation." Takeko Nakano

Ok, this whole thread has become a Quote Game.

Let's get back to this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by What Now

I found the books a nice addition but I can't seem to buy the pages. Is this intentional or yet to be added at this time? I hope it's not permanent.

The next developers' notes will probably explain why books are not retroactive and quit this all.

I wish books were retroactive. They aren't. They'll probably never be. Well, I'll get over it, and hope everyone here will do the same.

What really made me upset is people against it being so aggressive and offensive when supporting their arguments, which turned this and the other thread into a flamefest.

Rocky Raccoon

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

Massachusetts, USA

Guardians of the Cosmos

R/Mo

21 Nov 2008 at 18:43 - 743

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

Ok, this whole thread has become a Quote Game.

Let's get back to this:

The next developers' notes will probably explain why books are not retroactive and quit this all.

I wish books were retroactive. They aren't. They'll probably never be. Well, I'll get over it, and hope everyone here will do the same.

What really made me upset is people against it being so aggressive and offensive when supporting their arguments, which turned this and the other thread into a flamefest.

If quotes are not to be used, why is there a quote button?
I don't think the aggressiveness came from only one side of the argument, I think it can be seen from both sides.

MStarfire

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2007

[SOS]

Rt/

21 Nov 2008 at 18:43 - 744

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

What really made me upset is people against it being so aggressive and offensive when supporting their arguments, which turned this and the other thread into a flamefest.

You've got me all wrong. I'm not against it. If we get retroactive rewards, fine. If we're allowed to buy a book, fine. If we're not, that's fine too.

I'm against people thinking they're entitled to huge rewards and are complaining because they're not getting them. I hate that people are presenting the argument of "well, new players get just as much reward as us veterans and I don't think that's fair" as proof that the update is imbalanced or unfair or whatever. That's what I'm against.

Shasgaliel

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2008

[bomb]

21 Nov 2008 at 18:44 - 745

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

The next developers' notes will probably explain why books are not retroactive and quit this all.

I wish books were retroactive. They aren't. They'll probably never be. Well, I'll get over it, and hope everyone here will do the same.

I am afraid this will not happen.We have not received many justifications from Anet so far.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

What really made me upset is people against it being so aggressive and offensive when supporting their arguments, which turned this and the other thread into a flamefest.

I think all longer threads have the same fate here on GWG. Actually I would mention both sides here not only one.

Gill Halendt

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

21 Nov 2008 at 18:54 - 746

Quote:

Originally Posted by MStarfire

You've got me all wrong. I'm not against it. If we get retroactive rewards, fine. If we're allowed to buy a book, fine. If we're not, that's fine too.

That's me too. I've stated this at least twice, yet you called me an idiot. Well, thanks.

More than this. I've been filling my new books in the last few days, so even if the books become retroactive now, I doubt I'll get a "retroactive" reward, since there's no way they've kept track of what I've done BEFORE and what AFTER the update. So see if I care.

Asking is free. No one stopped playing for protest and I really hope no one quitted because of this. I don't see players on strike demanding anything here.

That's only what overly dramatic detractors wanted to see in this discussion. They went against overly dramatic supporters and this is the result...

Well, at least I increased my post-count.

MStarfire

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Nov 2007

[SOS]

Rt/

21 Nov 2008 at 19:33 - 747

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

That's me too. I've stated this at least twice, yet you called me an idiot. Well, thanks.

Anytime.

Quote:

More than this. I've been filling my new books in the last few days, so even if the books become retroactive now, I doubt I'll get a "retroactive" reward, since there's no way they've kept track of what I've done BEFORE and what AFTER the update. So see if I care.

Asking is free. No one stopped playing for protest and I really hope no one quitted because of this. I don't see players on strike demanding anything here.

That's only what overly dramatic detractors wanted to see in this discussion. They went against overly dramatic supporters and this is the result...

Well, at least I increased my post-count.

I think I nabbed a solid +12 posts. Also, based on the Dev update notes, it looks like I was right all along: nobody deserved anything. So, everyone, thanks for the laughs, and thanks for showing us the true meaning of "if you give them an inch..."

See you next update.

Fril Estelin

So Serious...

Join Date: Jan 2007

London

Nerfs Are [WHAK]

E/

21 Nov 2008 at 19:42 - 748

Hey Dreamwind, and the others that thought that the "economy" explanation was bogus,

Don't take it personally or as an attack, but I thought that for the sake of "fairness", I'd mention the fact that you were wrong on Anet not explaining their decision in the recent Nov 21 update notes. You said among other things:

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

I am talking about Anet coming out and giving us a LEGIT statement on the matter. As it is we have several conflicting statements from them on why it happened, and we still don't know the real reason.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Maybe...but if it is completely impossible they should just come out and say it is completely impossible. Instead we get "it would be bad for the economy" which tells me it is possible but they didn't want to do it.

<SNIP>

3rd bold- If they are making an effort to make changes retroactive why not this one? Its either it is impossible to do or they really believe it affects the economy. Which one is it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DreamWind

You think?? The only official statements out of Anet have been shaky at best. I will tell you right now the economy argument is a joke on so many levels, and the reason they won't bring it up again it because they know it is too. The argument that they can't technically do it is also a joke because we know it has been done in EOTN. It has even got to the point where Linsey admitted it is unfair, and yet people are still sitting here trying to claim it is fair.

On the other hand (since it's only fair!), they haven't commented on the possibility to only grant factions for retroactive books, which I think would be very legitimate due to the explanation I gave here.

Gill Halendt

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

21 Nov 2008 at 19:43 - 749

Quote:

Originally Posted by MStarfire

it looks like I was right all along: nobody deserved anything.

Mhh. Looks like the other way around to me:

Quote:

Storybook Retroactivity

Storybook NPCs allow players to purchase the pages of missions completed without having the book in inventory. However, we decided not to allow players to purchase the pages of missions that were completed prior to the update. This was a difficult decision to make, but an important one.

We monitor the economy closely and found a significant fluctuation in how much gold players had on average after the addition of the M.O.X. quests (which give a 10 platinum reward). If we allowed players to purchase those pages, any character that had completed all three campaigns in Normal Mode would be receiving 18 platinum and 42,750 gold for Hard Mode completion for a grand total of 60,750 gold. In light of how much the economy was affected by just 10 platinum, the inflation caused by giving out 60 platinum per character was too significant for us to allow.

Looks to me more like "You probably deserve it, we even considered it, yet there's something more important we have to care about, which is economy".

Nothing new, actually, we didn't need numbers to know. I still think they could have found viable solutions for this if they just wanted to, but anyway, who cares now.

HawkofStorms

Hall Hero

Join Date: Aug 2005

E/

21 Nov 2008 at 20:00 - 750

But harming the economy also impacts YOU. It affects everyone. They aren't screwing you over, they are protecting you from inflation. You don't "deserve" anything, because what you wanted, and what you "deserved" would have ultimately harmed you.

Rocky Raccoon

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2007

Massachusetts, USA

Guardians of the Cosmos

R/Mo

21 Nov 2008 at 20:03 - 751

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

Mhh. Looks like the other way around to me:

Looks to me more like "You probably deserve it, we even considered it, yet there's something more important we have to care about, which is economy".

Nothing new, actually, we didn't need numbers to know. I still think they could have found viable solutions for this if they just wanted to, but anyway, who cares now.

I really don't understand the us against them attitude that some people have with ANET. You ask for an explanation, you receive an explanation now you denigrate that explanation.

Kattar

EXCESSIVE FLUTTERCUSSING

Join Date: Mar 2007

SMS (lolgw2placeholder)

Me/

21 Nov 2008 at 20:06 - 752

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

I really don't understand the us against them attitude that some people have with ANET. You ask for an explanation, you receive an explanation now you denigrate that explanation.

The short answer is: people will complain about anything. Some people can't be pleased, doesn't matter what it is.

But at least the issues have been addressed, so other threads about them can be closed or ignored.

Fril Estelin

So Serious...

Join Date: Jan 2007

London

Nerfs Are [WHAK]

E/

21 Nov 2008 at 20:16 - 753

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katsumi

But at least the issues have been addressed, so other threads about them can be closed or ignored.

I'm afraid that some people will say that they're not (and somewhat I agree on this specific point, but I think they'd be pushing too much...). You can already see it coming: they haven't considered giving retro-books for factions only. And here we go again (well, not me this time

)...

Frozy

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Dec 2006

21 Nov 2008 at 20:26 - 754

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

I really don't understand the us against them attitude that some people have with ANET. You ask for an explanation, you receive an explanation now you denigrate that explanation.

We asked why we aren't getting the faction, they told us why we aren't getting the gold, meaning we didn't get an explanation for that issue.

Gill Halendt

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Mar 2008

21 Nov 2008 at 20:30 - 755

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

I really don't understand the us against them attitude that some people have with ANET. You ask for an explanation, you receive an explanation now you denigrate that explanation.

What? How am I denigrating it? Actually, I was replying to MStarfire, who said that players "don't deserve anything" after reading the notes. I don't think so, by saying they had to take an important and difficult decision, they actually said the very opposite thing. They said they've been carefully considering which route to follow, for our good. Is that so denigrating to you?!

They said too much money would cause inflation. Well, it's just what this whole thread has been wheeling around for 20 pages. So there's nothing new, no misterious "technical issue" preventing them to make books retroactive, as someone hypothesized. That's enough for me.

It's an answer. I just think they could have found an alternative solution if they wanted (a couple of which have been suggested here, for example), yet it's not me to say what they are supposed to do about it, so I and everyone around must just accept it.

Kattar

EXCESSIVE FLUTTERCUSSING

Join Date: Mar 2007

SMS (lolgw2placeholder)

Me/

21 Nov 2008 at 20:37 - 756

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gill Halendt

What? How am I denigrating it? Actually, I was replying to MStarfire, who said that players "don't deserve anything" after reading the notes. I don't think so, by saying they had to take an important and difficult decision, they actually said the very opposite thing. Is that so denigrating to you?!

You'll notice MStarfire was banned. Guess the reason?

Don't feed the trolls kids.

upier

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Mar 2006

Done.

[JUNK]

21 Nov 2008 at 20:38 - 757

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flossie

I am still unaware where in the update notes it made redoing missions mandatory. You want the stuff, you redo them. You don't, you don't. Nobody is being forced to do this stuff, if you choose to, fine.

Of course.
The problem with your example was rather the fact that redoing missions 80ish times surely isn't as fun as just going out for dinner 80 times and getting 80 toys.
We are dealing with a PvP title that was modified into a PvE title because A.Net was too lazy to add a new one for the PvE skills. But having done so - they didn't modify the title itself and thus it still keeps the PvP properties of being hard to max.

What retroactive books could have done is SLIGHTLY fix the mess they made. It's a PvE title that maxes at 10 million. And given amount of things (and what they actually are - since it's not a 5 minute LB/SS farm but it's rather a 30 minutes vanquish!) that actually help you advance this title - the number is just too high.

DreamWind

Forge Runner

Join Date: Oct 2006

E/Mo

21 Nov 2008 at 21:11 - 758

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

Hey Dreamwind, and the others that thought that the "economy" explanation was bogus,

On the other hand (since it's only fair!), they haven't commented on the possibility to only grant factions for retroactive books, which I think would be very legitimate due to the explanation I gave here.

I will address the statement in the appropriate thread.

Mr.Bimble

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2006

[ARSE] The Happy Campers

N/W

26 Nov 2008 at 12:30 - 759

A/b is still too empty of people to be able to get battles quickly. Doesn't make raising faction for my alliance any better or more interesting than hfffing. So I have another uninspiring update. Shame when you consider the special weekends. Halloween and Canthan new year show that anet doesn't RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO everything up. Pity....

persuadu

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2007

DTH

R/

26 Nov 2008 at 15:42 - 760

Non retroactive books reward new players.

For those veterans who already did the work, they just made it easier for someone to come along and do the same WITHOUT rewarding the folks who already did it.

I think if Anet cared about their playerbase, they would have rewarded the veterans with something special. I understand about their economy, so why not give a weapon or aura or special customized whatever to those of us who did all this work before the update? Maybe a little parrot or monkey or some crap like that.

If they want new players, they need to either 1) Start advertizing better, or 2) Get existing players happy enough to spread the word of mouth.

They did not do right by those of us who put the work in before hand.