ablity to cash in skill points for bath. faction

DragonRogue

DragonRogue

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2007

Seattle, WA USA

Demon Dawg Knights

E/Me

I searched the thread on this and found nothing about this that i could see, so sorry if this is a repeat. So a few of us were talking about all the experience our main toons had and the laughable amount of unused skill points we had that we could do nothing with. We have all the skills in the game, dont really use con-sets, stars of transference are a complete waste, and we thought we should be able to do something with them.

The idea that came up the most was to have the ability to turn them into Zkeys. Now i can just hear the PVPers freaking out about this idea already and im sure that there will be much flaming of this thread. But since the PVE players are the ones who are really buying them up, why should the PVP players be the only ones to control the market? Barring the endless accounts who predict tournaments. The Z title failed in its attempt at showing how much balth faction someone gets since everyone is selling the keys anyway to the PVEers. The items that fall from the chest arent even something that hardcore PVPers would ever even use. Lockpicks, tomes, sweets and drunk points, R12 weapons? And dont even try and use the arguement that the prices will drop to nothing since im sick of hearing from greedy people already whining endlessly on that topic. But im sure we will hear pleanty on this idea being the destruction of the GW economy. Im not really sure how many skill points would be fair in this to equal the amount of balth faction. Maybe 5 or 10 skill points per key id say. So what are your thoughts? Let the flaming begin.

zelgadissan

zelgadissan

Forge Runner

Join Date: Feb 2008

The Warrior Priests [WP]

Me/Rt

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10337270

I laughed then, I'll laugh now. I agree we need new things to use skill points on, but Zkeys really isn't one of them.

TheodenKing

TheodenKing

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2008

DoA

Dark Order of Retarded Knights (doRk)

N/Me

The Zaishen chest,, and zaishen keys, are a reward for your experience in PvP play and Zaishen challenges.
The tourney prediction rewards are designed to get people interested in pvp as well.

Wtf do your unused skill points from pve have to do with Zaishen?

Though you'll probably never run out of skill points, you can utilize them for profit by making consumables to sell or use. They added that mechanic with EOTN.

HawkofStorms

HawkofStorms

Hall Hero

Join Date: Aug 2005

E/

I don't know... I might be slowly changing my opinion from that post zelgadissan posted months ago.

It would be a great way to totally crush the value of z-keys and make people actually use them instead of trying to use it as currency and a get rich quick scheme. The QQ would be epic. But at least after it happened there would be no more whiny "I got screwed over with the XTH points" "WTF why are z-key prices dropping" threads.

The short term QQ if this happened may be better then the long term consequences.

Eve Flamestone

Eve Flamestone

Pre-Searing Cadet

Join Date: Nov 2008

Shoot n' Run, Texas

Crusaders of Ancaria [CoA]

Mo/E

/notSigned
but for something other then z keys and balth
I'd sign for something like Luxon/Kurzick or LB/SS, or for PvE skills for heros but not balth.

The Air Revenger

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2008

Looking For TA Guild!

W/

z-keys would become almost worthless, other than getting the title of course. Thats why i think its a great idea. It would cause massive QQ and no more getting rich off XTH. It would also make the title alot eaiser to get since right now tho only way is to be extremly rich or buy gold.

EDIT: or you can just make it like 30 skill points per z-key

go cubs

go cubs

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2007

Chicago

[SIR]

D/

or make it like 100 sp per zkey lol.....that would b teh insane...but i agree we need to make sp worth something- I Would prefer them not to be for zkeys...maybe they should be for tomes or something...5sp for regular tome.....50sp for elite? maybe thats not the right amounts but it seems like a good idea to me :0 (may tank the prices of tomes too...) then again no point in buying regular tomes with sp unless u only had to pay sp's

dasmitchies

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2007

Sacred Forge Knights

W/P

How about a GH chest with lesser rewards? Zkeys were introduced to burn Balthazar faction and give pvp players a chance at rare skins. A Guild Hall chest with drops of tomes and title points with normal chest drops makes more sense for an idea like this.

Masseur

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Dec 2005

Southern California

R/Mo

If the price does drop considerably you won't be as mad at getting the crap you get out of the chest most of the time.

go cubs

go cubs

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2007

Chicago

[SIR]

D/

if the price drops, then title becomes more and more worthless...if keys become 1k each...title is 20 mil...which is a heck of a lot easier then 70-80mil so they dont want title to become easier

Yawgmoth

Yawgmoth

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2005

PvP rewards are for PvP players.
XTH should be completely removed.

Zaishen Keys are a way for PvP-only players to make money. They should stay like that and they should have high prices.

Now PvE needs 2 things:
-A new way to burn MASS amounts of skill points
-AND a nerf to amounts of XP speed farming can get, something like lootscaling for exp, so farmers won't be able to make 40++ skillpoints per hour, and to make the big experience rewards from books or elite quests actually worth something.

And one of ways to make players burn thoudands of now useless skill points could actually be... using them for opening Z-Chest! But directly, this way:

-One Time Special Event - For just one weekend and never again players get the ability to open the Zaishen Chest without ZKeys but with the power of will - Costs 5 Skill Points.
-Opening ZChest with skill points should NOT add to the Zaishen Title
-As the drops from ZChest make less than 1/3 of ZKeys worth, this one-time event wouldn't hurt ZKeys prices much, and if XTH finally got removed the prices would soon go back up where they should be.
-Optional: Skill Points made on PvP characters could use another mean of conversion, possibly straight to Balth Faction, but while getting even one in the more srs forms of PvP like GvG/HA/even RA/TA takes A LOT of playing, I don't know what are the gains in AB/FA/JQ so those would need to be examined first.

street peddler

street peddler

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2007

it would make z-keys worthless. z-keys are a way for people who PvP too much to make money off people who PvE and farm too much. i like the balance right now and nothing really needs to be changed.

I Is Special

I Is Special

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Nov 2006

NJ

To Gain Extra Mobility We Play [NUDE]

W/

Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkofStorms View Post
The QQ would be epic.
Do it just for this reason.

I want to see the forums explode into QQ.

Quinlan Vos

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2009

/signed

It would wreck the value of zkeys which is good because 1. Anet is currently selling gold to players via XTH and 2. PvP players don't need/deserve PvE rewards.

Shursh

Shursh

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Jul 2008

KaVa

N/

meh, why not?

i just sold all my zkeys for a massive loss anyway, as i've been away from the game for a while and originally bought them @ 4.8k/ea. QQ lol

it'd be nice to be able to get zrank1 for really cheap when the key price plummets.

mastar of warrior

mastar of warrior

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2006

sweden

N/A

Mo/

sure.
100 skill points = 1 zaishen key.
otherwise no.

lewis91

lewis91

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2008

Wales

Order of the Azurelight[OA]

E/

Im on the fence about this idea. Mainly because hardcore farmers with 20+ mill xp would have at least 1300 unused points to convert, and already non-hardcore farmers would just become one. If this were to go ahead, then im all for the above mentioned idea of XP-scaling, more monsters you kill within a few seconds, less xp you get.

I do agree we need something else to spend the points on, and consumables where an attempt, but not really that good to use them on.

I did like another above mentioned idea which is to have a PVE chest, with lesser rewards, perhaps a few snacks, alcohols, and a few nice weapons.

Either way i do agree some kind of sink needs to be added for those unused points

daraaksii

daraaksii

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

LOL

/notsigned.

Btw zkeys should be account binding items.

Icy The Mage

Icy The Mage

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2008

Canada

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by daraaksii View Post
Btw zkeys should be account binding items.
This.

But on topic of unused skill points...

What's wrong with consumables?
You could always open up a cons service where people give you the mats + money & you make the cons for a slight fee (100g/con, 300/conset, etc...).

snodaard

snodaard

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2006

Holland

[Uni]

Mo/

lol, guessing you'r short on money atm?
most useless thingy ever

daraaksii

daraaksii

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2005

Hokay let's see:

I start a new char at factions, get it up to lvl15ish in no time, bring it to Eotn, Gunnar's Hold, and do non-stop Kilroy farming. Oh yeah baby, it's would be more profitable than this so-called UWSC run.

/notsigned.

Need More Donuts

Banned

Join Date: Aug 2008

D/W

Z keys are too easy to get as it is this is the stupidest idea I've ever heard

riceangel

riceangel

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Oct 2008

Floirda

[ASH]IGN: Tokyo Hina

W/E

dont think another source of zkeys is needed,maybe a tome trader that exhanges skill points for tomes is a slightly better idea?

[Morkai]

[Morkai]

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Oct 2007

Heroes of Elonia [HE]

W/Rt

Everybody gets zkeys in stupid amounts anyway.

In my opinion, this is a bad suggestion.

Eragon Zarroc

Eragon Zarroc

Atra estern?? ono thelduin

Join Date: Jan 2008

Madness Incarnate

[Duo]

W/P

z-keys are on a decline anyways, what does it matter. they pretty much do not show a person's pvp prowess because of trading. tons of people have bought the title, it is no longer significant unless ur extremely high ranked in it which constitutes a minority of people. why not let people trade in skill points for z-keys. if u make the number of skill points required per z-key high enough, it's not like they'll be able to be farmed with too much over ease. it will at least take time. it'll deal a crushiing blow to the failing market of z-keys and put ectos back up as primary tade material. even if z-keys aren't the made as an outlet for skill points, there really needs to be something that skill points can be dumped into.

Shayne Hawke

Shayne Hawke

Departed from Tyria

Join Date: May 2007

Clan Dethryche [dth]

R/

I would only support this being added for PvP characters to change their skill points. If PvE characters get a hand in this, it becomes a terrible system.

Even then, it's a stretch, because it's making yet one more way to get Z-Keys for free when we already have XTH.

HawkofStorms

HawkofStorms

Hall Hero

Join Date: Aug 2005

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcyFiftyFive View Post
This.

But on topic of unused skill points...

What's wrong with consumables?
You could always open up a cons service where people give you the mats + money & you make the cons for a slight fee (100g/con, 300/conset, etc...).
The problem with consumables getting rid of excess skill points is what they are used for. Dungeons, UWSC, etc.
You get enough experience doing those things that you earn more skill points then you spent on consumables.

Expherious

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2007

Wolfenstein Fuel Dump

Melandru's Elite Hunters [Hunt]

D/

Quote:
Originally Posted by go cubs View Post
or make it like 100 sp per zkey lol.....that would b teh insane...but i agree we need to make sp worth something- I Would prefer them not to be for zkeys...maybe they should be for tomes or something...5sp for regular tome.....50sp for elite? maybe thats not the right amounts but it seems like a good idea to me :0 (may tank the prices of tomes too...) then again no point in buying regular tomes with sp unless u only had to pay sp's
I like the sound of this.

Hanging Man

Hanging Man

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2006

Deep in the Shire

I love how every idea someone has always leads back to zkeys.

the_jos

the_jos

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jun 2006

Hard Mode Legion [HML]

N/

I say no for one specific reason. It encourages solo-play tooooooo much.
I think Kilroy would like the company though

DoomFrost

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Florida

E/

You can already use skill points for buying consumables. If anything I think they should look into creating more consumables to spend skill points on rather than: 1 skill point = 1 ZKey.

Anyways a better idea for XTH is bringing back the Zaishen Supply Masters, and changing XTH's rewards to Zaishen Medallions instead of Tournie Reward Points. Anet could further add additional items to the NPC's. Maybe something like Zaishen weapons or a Zaishen Chest summoning stone (access your storage in an explorable area). Along with the other items offered.

DragonRogue

DragonRogue

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2007

Seattle, WA USA

Demon Dawg Knights

E/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by snodaard View Post
lol, guessing you'r short on money atm?
most useless thingy ever
Actually, we are a HM PVE farming alliance and money is not an issue. Shockingly, some people like opening the chest and dont sell the keys. This is evidenced thru the amount of PVEers actually buying the keys or theyd long ago have been worthless. So stop being an idiot.

Consets for the really experienced player are pretty pointless. Many of us never use them, even in HM we have learned the skills and tactics to play the game without them. We learned to do this long before GWEN even came out. We rarely use dp removal either.

For those of us who have done all there is to do in the game, can beat any area without the need for crutches, Zkey chest opening is about all we have left to do thats interesting. And PVEers do like to have an emote as well, as also evidenced by the fact that it is PVErs buying the keys in the first place. And the arguement about this being another way to get free Zkeys is laughable...Gaining our skill points in PVE is just as free as gaining balth faction to get the keys in PVP. And if you really read my original post, I never said 1point per key, i said 5-10. And since i do PVP as well as PVE, i know i can farm the faction a hell of alot faster than i can with skill points.

As for using them on tomes, i already stated that we already have every skill in the game. This idea is also worthless.

If it wasnt for the PVErs wanting another title, wanting an emote, or wanting the items that MIGHT fall from the chest, there would be no monetary value in Zkeys to begin with. Period.

Wartard

Wartard

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2009

Ascalon City

None

W/R

If we're looking for alternate options, why not set up a system for converting skill points into attribute points?

Hanging Man

Hanging Man

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2006

Deep in the Shire

cashing in skill points will only lead to abuse for zkey gain.

unless maybe like 50 skill points for 10k faction?
that seems fair.

draxynnic

draxynnic

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2005

[CRFH]

Quote:
Originally Posted by HawkofStorms View Post
The problem with consumables getting rid of excess skill points is what they are used for. Dungeons, UWSC, etc.
You get enough experience doing those things that you earn more skill points then you spent on consumables.
Plus, I don't know about anyone else, but if I tried to burn all of my skill points through purchasing consumables I'd burn through my finances before I even managed to get halfway. I suppose I could try selling them, but I imagine most people who'd use them are likewise possessing of more skill points than funds, so why would they buy them at a price that gives me a profit?

That said, it doesn't have to be zkeys - there are other things skill points could potentially be used for. Tomes are a decent suggestion, or just cut out the middleman and make it possible to buy skills from the trader using 5-10 skill points instead of 1 point and 1 plat. Or they could be used as a substitute for gold when buying blessings.

DragonRogue

DragonRogue

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2007

Seattle, WA USA

Demon Dawg Knights

E/Me

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanging Man View Post
cashing in skill points will only lead to abuse for zkey gain.

unless maybe like 50 skill points for 10k faction?
that seems fair.
Elaborate on how you feel that this would lead to abuse. HOW?

Kattar

Kattar

EXCESSIVE FLUTTERCUSSING

Join Date: Mar 2007

SMS (lolgw2placeholder)

Me/

Merged.

(Since that's a better solution than just closing.)

go cubs

go cubs

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2007

Chicago

[SIR]

D/

Make a dude that takes 5 skill points(sp's) for regular tome and 50sp for elite tome...maybe different numbers but a tome trader would be fairly relative to sp's
This could cause tank in tomes and cause skill hunter to b lame....but it's an idea

draxynnic

draxynnic

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Nov 2005

[CRFH]

Hrrmn. I was expecting the other thread to get merged, not locked.

Anyway, to state my opinion here, since locked thread will probably fall into oblivion:

I, too, have a ton of skill points. Given that anything you can do with a skill point also costs gold, I probably have more skill points than I have other resources to spend. Crafting and consets doesn't really work because, well, who's going to buy them at any markup whatsoever when they probably also have a massive excess of skill points?

Having them able to be directly or indirectly converted into gold, however, will probably lead to inflation from all the people who have 1000+ surplus skill points to cash in. Instead, I'd be inclined to make it some non-transferable benefit, possibly one that allows the player to save gold - say, by getting a discount on the gold side of purchasing skills if more skill points are spent, or by being able to use skill points to buy blessings (including the Kurzick/Luxon blessings) at shrines and statues. This way, instead of all the gold going into the economy at once, it allows the player with excess skill points to save gold in the long run, creating a steady, gradual flow rather than a sudden spike.

Good point. Merged. -Katsumi

rick1027

rick1027

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

W/R

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shasgaliel View Post
not for balthazar faction but for luxon/kurzick faction, Then I will sign. Otherwise big no from me.
agree and/or any of the gwen factions seeing thats where you probably got it in the first place