ablity to cash in skill points for bath. faction

/signed I like the idea. If not for gold, then yes for zkeys. The title has already lost it's prestigue.

/signed

MayB I'm wrong here. But I think that we ALL agree that stored skill points that have no "outlet" also have no value. For PvE players that are already UAS, the ONLY outlet for SP are cons. And honestly if U watch the trade chat in ANY town, cons are RARELY WTB or WTS (except for the occasional DOA). So this response is intended as an ALTERNATE PRACTICAL use for stored SP.

Since most of the replies to this thread are related to economy, how about allowing players to transfer SP for $? So as not to wreak havoc on the economy, the exchange could be ACCOUNT WIDE limited to no more than say 25 SP per day. Price could be 1SP/500g = $12.5k/day. Players with a SP bank of 1000+ SP would take aver a month to deplete thier SP bank account.

This concept does a few relatively useful things...
1. rewards farmers with a little more $ (remember they are already farming $)
2. provides an alternate outlet for existing "SP bank"
3. provides an economic "stimuls package" for the non-farmer PvE'ers to actually be able to afford the PvP'ers zkeys
4. only acts as a "trickle" into existing economy that can be spent on ANYTHING in the game - even mats for armor
5. WON'T affect the price of Zkeys

Only PvP characters earn Skill points both in places and at a speed that deserves Zaishen keys.


For PvE characters it would be an unnecessary extra income. They can get skill points like there is no tomorrow by farming in PvE.

My main char has Legendary Skill Hunter and 500+ useless skill points left over. All my other characters are 2+ years old and do not need to use stars of transference. (tomes make those kinda useless anyway, yes?) Cons are totally not the answer...who has enough materials to craft 500+ salvage kits and the patience to sell 500+ salvage kits? Not I. And I'm not only interested in money.

I think a good goal for SP use would be to simply substitute them for gold, faction, or trophies - things that save you money/faction/time, but not directly give you money/faction. They need to have many uses so that they benefit everyone, not just title chasers or farmers. I'd like to see unique uses across all campaigns, something like:

Core:

- Update Merchant NPCs

• Add "Skill Point Rewards" tab, which allows you to purchase merchant items with skill points instead of gold, items purchased this way cannot be sold to NPCs, traded, or stacked with normal items, but can be put in storage and used by any character on the account
• Why bother? Instead of giving you money, it saves you money on things you need

- Update Collector NPCs (weapons only)

• Add "Skill Point Rewards" tab, which allows you to trade skill points instead of trophies for collector weapons, cannot be salvaged, sold to NPCs, or traded, but can be put in storage and used by any character on the account
• Why bother? Instead of grinding for trophies, it saves you time on getting a basic weapon that you or your heroes need

- During Festivals, Update Festival Collector NPCs

• Add "Skill Point Rewards" tab, which allows you to purchase festival items with skill points instead of trophies, items purchased this way cannot be salvaged, sold to NPCs, traded, or stacked with normal items, but can be put in storage and used by any character on the account
• Why bother? Instead of grinding for trophies, it saves you money on things you want

- Update Guild Lord NPCs

• Add "Skill Point Rewards" tab, which allows you to purchase guild hall NPCs with skill points instead of gold
• Only when speaking with a PvP character, add option to purchase Stars of Transference, 2sp each, cannot be sold to NPCs, traded, or stacked with normal Stars of Transference, but can be put in storage and used by any character on the account
• Why bother? Gives PvP characters something to do with their 100% useless skill points

- Update Profession Changer NPCs

• Add "Skill Point Rewards" tab, which allows you to purchase secondary professions with skill points instead of gold
• Why bother? Instead of giving you money, it saves you money on things you need and is quite appropriate considering what this NPC does

- Update Tolkano NPCs

• Add option to purchase Zaishen Keys, 5sp each, cannot be sold to NPCs, traded, or stacked with normal Zaishen Keys, but can be put in storage and used by any character on the account
• Why bother? Instead of giving you faction, it saves you faction on things you need and gives PvP characters something to do with their 100% useless skill points. Also, more Guild Wars, less Grind Wars

Prophecies:

- Update Prophecies Merchant NPCs (in addition to the Core Merchant changes)

• Under "Skill Point Rewards" tab, add option to purchase Fruitcakes, Hunter's Ales, and Champagne Poppers with skill points, items purchased this way cannot be sold to NPCs, traded, or stacked with normal items, but can be put in storage and used by any character on the account
• Why bother? Instead of giving you money, it saves you money on things you want, and more Guild Wars, less Grind Wars

Factions:

- Update Factions Merchant NPCs (in addition to the Core Merchant changes)

• Under "Skill Point Rewards" tab, add option to purchase Sugary Blue Drinks, Rice Wine, and Bottle Rockets with skill points, items purchased this way cannot be sold to NPCs, traded, or stacked with normal items, but can be put in storage and used by any character on the account
• Why bother? Instead of giving you money, it saves you money on things you want, and more Guild Wars, less Grind Wars

- Elite Blessings, 1sp + 500g

• Double Kurzick/Luxon faction gained by killing foes
• HM only
• Only offered after regular blessing has been purchased/bribed, replaces regular blessing
• Why bother? More Guild Wars, less Grind Wars

- Update Faction Rewards NPCs

• Add option to purchase Kurzick/Luxon skills, 3sp each
• Add option to purchase Scrolls to Urgoz/Deep, 1sp each, cannot be sold to NPCs, traded, or stacked with normal Scrolls, but can be put in storage and used by any character on the account
• Purchasing skills/scrolls in this way does not add to the Kurzick/Luxon titles and does not make you sacrifice faction of the opposite faction (ie. you are Kurzick and buy an Urgoz scroll, you sacrifice no Luxon faction)
• Why bother? Instead of giving you faction, it saves you faction on things you need and is an alternative to sacrificing opposing faction

Nightfall:

- Update Nightfall Merchant NPCs (in addition to the Core Merchant changes)

• Under "Skill Point Rewards" tab, add option to purchase Mandragor Root Cakes, Vabbian Wine, and Sparklers with skill points, items purchased this way cannot be sold to NPCs, traded, or stacked with normal items, but can be put in storage and used by any character on the account
• Why bother? Instead of giving you money, it saves you money on things you want, and more Guild Wars, less Grind Wars

- Elite Bounties, 1sp + 500g

• Double Sunspear/Lightbringer points gained by killing foes
• HM only
• Only offered after regular bounty has been given, replaces regular bounty
• Why bother? More Guild Wars, less Grind Wars

Eye of the North:

- Update Eye of the North Merchant NPCs (in addition to the Core Merchant changes)

• Under "Skill Point Rewards" tab, add option to purchase Fruitcakes?, Dwarven Ales, and Snowman Summoners with skill points, items purchased this way cannot be sold to NPCs, traded, or stacked with normal items, but can be put in storage and used by any character on the account
• Why bother? Instead of giving you money, it saves you money on things you want, and more Guild Wars, less Grind Wars

- Elite Blessings, 1sp + 500g

• Double Vanguard/Norn/Asuran/Dwarven points gained by killing foes
• HM only
• Only offered after regular blessing has been given, replaces regular blessing
• Why bother? More Guild Wars, less Grind Wars

- Update Vanguard/Norn/Asuran/Dwarven Weapon/Consumable/Armor Crafter NPCs

• Add option to purchase One Time Access to this NPC, 50sp, only available to characters who do not meet the Title requirement of the NPC, access ends if you leave the district or outpost
• Why bother? The restriction is stupid to begin with, and more Guild Wars, less Grind Wars

Notes:

- I see no need to update the Skill Trainers, as an alternative to buying skills already exists in the form of tomes.

- OMG ZAISHEN KEYS NOOOO!1!!one!!1!eleven!1!!1 Settle down, champs. Contrary to popular belief, the Zaishen title is not a "PvP only" title. Any PvE player can farm the Zaishen or register for the XTH and get absolutely free RPs from it every month. Why does Anet do this? Clearly, because they want the title to be available for everyone and avoid a mass QQ from PvE players. Currently, PvP players can progress through this title much quicker than PvE players. Allowing PvE players to trade skill points for keys closes the gap, and yes, initially, puts them at a great advantage, but that advantage evens out over time. (Think about how long it takes to get 5k Balth compared to how long it takes to get 5 skill points) Zaishen Keys were never meant to be used as currency, they are meant to be rewards and a means to acquire a title. The Zaishen Key market could use to be crashed further, because giving everyone a free 100k+ every month is retarded.

- I put way to much thought into this...

I'd say FIRST fix the whole XP gain system that allows extreme overfarm of 1000s of SPs, and then think of more rewards for them. With the current broken system it would only encourage even more powerfarming to infinity, and all those ideas either remove gold sinks / material sinks or hurt rewarding factor of PvP rewards, all suggestions are going totally WRONG WAY.

And i would say that PVP can farm balth faction just as fast as PVE can farm skill points. You have yet to provide a single arguement that doesnt sound like a PVPer trying to control his share of the one sided zkey market.

Since it is the PVErs who are buying the keys from the PVPers, and using the chest for the items it drops, this title and idea to rank the amount of balth faction a player gets, is beyond quite pointless and was a serious fail in its attempt. There is nothing a PVPer really needs money for since all is supplied for you with balth faction. If the PVErs didnt want the chest, for whatever reason, the keys would be completely worthless. We already have access to zkeys thru XTH predictions, same as PVPers who also use the XTH, so why does this idea bother PVPers so much, unless they NEED the PVErs to buy them, and they want to control this market as best they can?

There are no places in PvP with crowds of enemies that love to stick around you like in PvE. The maximum possible is 12 in the Zaishen Elite.

I can kill 100 Vaettir in less than 5 minutes. You can't kill 100 PvP NPCs in that time.
On top of that, they can add additional features to ensure that the Experience gain is PvP limited like Balthazar faction:
- No XP gain in the isle of nameless.
- XP gain cap in the Zaishen challenge and Elite zaishen to 6000Exp per day. Or no gain at all.
- Ban the use of Stars of Transference.

And ding, done.

/SIGNED

12chars

If you want SP >> Keys, it should be like 25:1 not, 5:1.

why? 5-15 minutes in halls or gvg and you've got 5k balth faction, whereas you'd have to farm something like 300 raptors in HM to get 5 skill points. 25:1 is hardly fair.

Yes, but if u think about it there are tons of people with crazy amounts of skill points on their characters....If it were 5sp for every zkey i would get 200 keys just on my main...think of how many zkeys would get into circulation that way....you could probably max out the zkey rank many times over from the amount of zkeys that got everyone...then again thats what xth does everymonth :0....

When XTH creates a problem of too many Free ZKeys it should be just removed instead of producing even more Free ZKeys to even further ruin their value.

And you can't make skillpoints worthwhile with keeping the current rate at which farmers can get them. Rewarding factor of a mission book or quest chain giving say 80,000xp will still be PATHETIC if farmers can make that in 20 minutes, making money from drops at the same time.

Well the thing about xth is that it makes sense and zkeys shouldnt be priced so high in the first place....PvP dont need cash first of all...2nd of all, only reason they are priced high is for title, before title the keys were 2.5k each...and now there is more QQ about them being 3.5k each...Who cares! quit QQ and live with it

Lol @ PvP don't need cash.
Reward Points are what is given to the top finishers of a monthly tounrnament and they replaced the RealWorld prizes. They *were intended* to be worth much, thats why the whole Zaishen Title and Monthly tonics drops were added.

XTH wasn't a big problem originally as very few people knew about it and were actively using it. But now it became obvious it's broken.

It would be nice if something else was done that let us make active use of them.

However:

It's the truth. Unless they put a cap on it like they do with Zaishen Challenge then people will just farm their brains out. I can get a skill point every 3 minutes from the raptor farm, it would just be too easy unless the exchange ratio was like 50 points for X amount of gold/faction.

I want to trade 5 skill points for one z-key directly. Why? Because not only is the Zaishen title ungodly expensive to buy for, I don't want to go out and spend more money on mule accounts just for XTH predictions to just barely scratch the surface of r6 or higher.

Maybe 10-1 will be better, but make sure you announce it before hand so all these idiots saving unregulated zkeys as currency instead of trader-regulated Ectos don't collectively bomb the forums with QQ threads saying their accumulated wealth just went 1929 on them.

You forget that the Zchallenge isnt the only place to get balth faction. This is stupid. AB can go on for days, same as GVG, TA,and RA. So if these arent capped then why should the skill points or exp PVErs get be capped? And we werent talking about 1-1 ratio on key-skill points. I stated 5-10 points which still would equal about the same amount of keys per hour that the balth faction totals can acquire, even thru solo farming.

when zkeys were introduced, pvp players had mass quantities of balth faction built up because there was nothing to spend it on at the time except for tournament tokens. they, too, had a temporary advantage.

regardless, i think you missed the part where i said keys bought with SP cannot be traded, so they aren't being put into circulation. you would only trade for the keys if you want zchest loot or the title. in turn, this would decrease the demand for zkeys and the price of zkeys would also decrease, which would make the XTH less of a free monthly feed bag.

the zaishen challenge isn't capped because of zaishen keys - it is capped because it's training, it's practically pve and you shouldn't earn balth faction in pve.

the faction you get there is peanuts compared to real pvp. farming zaishen is to pvp as farming pre-searing is to pve. high end pvpers earn dozens of zkeys per day. even at 5 SP per zkey, pve'ers would have a hard time keeping up. turning in a full hero's handbook in HM still would not get you 5 SP, if my math is correct.

My bad must have missed that...

As to pvp players not needing money Yawgmoth...U said how they get money...from Rps but...why do they need money? honestly a pvp only player has no need for cash :0

/sign haha it would be awesome i could use my 5k+ skill points and get bunchs of zkeys....jk this horrile idea /notsign

The idea that PVPers had large amounts of Balth Faction saved up and nothing to spend it on, since everything on their account was already unlocked, is basically the same as what i am going for with PVE skill points. Its exactly the same thing, just a different aspect.

Anet decided that something should be done for the PVPers unused balth faction and the Zchest was their answer. So why cant the PVErs also have something that eats up their SPs? ZKeys was the most logical answer, since it is already here, and since the keys are mostly sold to the PVErs anyway, instead of asking for some new modification to be added to the game for them. This chest failed in showing how much BF a player had the minute the PVPers started selling the keys, either to the PVErs or to eachother. Doesnt matter.

There has yet to be any good arguement against this that has not been motivated purely by greed that i have seen yet.

@ rohara i like your idea.

an much simpler way to fix this is just make it so pvp dosnt give xp.

Side note yes there needs to be something else usefull that people can use skill points on
one idea i had was 2skill points = sig of capture and 5= a normal tome. 10=elite tome i know my numbers are not what they should be so dont flame me, they are there just to give the basic idea that i had.

I agree...lol

Simple and not overpowerd idea.

let SP buy blessings you can get at shrine in explorables.
not the faction blessings, but the /kneel blessings.

No. Price on Z-keys would drop and a lot of people would grind levels instead of doing PvP + all the low levelers there would be solely for farming skill points.

HOWEVER: The idea of something new to use skillpoints for I
/sign
for because I have the same problem :S I use them once in a while on consumables in EotN but still have 500 + skill points on my main char. I have all skills so can't really use them on skills lol :P

I think there should rather be more PvE alternatives instead. Like: Consumables in Factions, NF and prophecies instead of only EotN, certain weaponsmiths with unique weaponskins taking like 20 skill points + some k and some materials for their items, maybe some traders that accept skill points only, like: Lockpick (5 skill points) ID kit (1 skill point) Sup ID kit (2 skill points) salvage kit (1 skill point) x-pert salvage kit (2 skill points) sup salvage kit (5 skill points) some kinda alcohol (2 skill points) some kinda sweet (2 skill points), something like that.

So far this is the best alternative ive seen yet. However, now i can hear the town controling guild QQ threads about how no one is buying their lockpicks anymore and we are cutting into that market, and even more QQ threads about how holiday items are worthless to farm for extra cash.

Zkeys were never intended to be an alternate source of trading or income. The rewards were intended to be the emote, title, and items from the chest. Even at rock bottom prices, zkeys would never fall to less than 1k per key. Why? Because even the items that fall would be worth close to that, so people would just use the keys themselves and sell the items instead. At the rate the XTH and PVP farmers are going, the prices of they keys will eventually diminish to this sooner or later. And when it does, there will be no one left to care if the PVE uses skill points on them or not.

Did it ever occur to anyone that ANET has allowed the XTH, and the multiple accounts of the XTH, because they realized that this title and intent failed in what it was to reflect, and are purposly wanting the market of the keys to crash? The Zaishen title track was broken the minute the PVPer started selling the keys, the PVErs are buying those keys and now have even more from the XTH. The PVE has always wanted an emote, and we have always grinded for titles and that is why the PVE are buying these keys. So it makes sense, that the PVE use their skill points on those keys.

/not signed
you already get enough from farming, no need for more.
also you can get free zkeys with the XTH, no need for more free zkeys ideas.

It's worse than that, in fact.

Balth. Faction doesn't cost anything else to use. Skill points, however, do - so not only can you get into a situation where you have nothing less to spend them on, you can also find yourself into a situation where you literally can't afford to spend them due to not being able to pay the gold/material cost of doing so.

/notsigned

Sorry, I don't agree with PvP rewards. But trading those in for things like ID kits may not be so bad.

This. I have massive amounts of skillpoints on my characters... but I cannot use them because skills cost 1000gold each and I am not fond of farming. Would love to turn in some of those useless skillpoints.

Hmm. . . /unsigned.

Skill points are very easily obtained.

Most likely all of the Balth Faction will go to Z Keys.

Z Keys were designed for PvP i.e. Balth faction & Reward Points.

Sorry no.

You know, part of me wonders if the thread should be retitled. It's gone to discussing alternate uses of skill points apart from just balthazar faction, but we're still getting regular /notsigned posts for the faction idea without the poster giving any opinion on any of the other ideas that have been raised.

its harder to farm skill points in PVE than it is to farm Balth faction, when i have stated numerous times that 5-10 SPs per key. Even with raptor farmers and what not., AB gains at about the same rate.

The Zkeys were intended as a reward to PVP but that was broken the minute the first PVPer sold a Zkey.

Try again. Arguement is epic fail.

DRAX...this was originally two seperate threads, the old one about SPs to balth faction which i dont agree on, and mine which was merged into this one by a moderator about SPs to Zkeys. Similar ideas, two very different arguements. So we had to continue this here with this thread.

If I have 500 skill points I would be getting all the skills in all profressions. Well, the good ones...

/notsigned

Plus, converting skill points to factions and vice versa is just a lazy way of gaining factions. What did the makers of GW think of just letting players do things the lazy way eh?

/signed

Most of the crap from the zaishen chest isnt stuff needed for PvP. The chest was just another way for them to get rich. Most of the people opening the chest are PvE players anyway.

10sp would be a good number, because that takes about as long as it does to get the 5k balth faction for a key.

I know the history... in fact, if you remembered yours, it was my comment that lead to your thread being merged into this one and not simply closed.

The two are pretty much equivalent. I don't know about you, but if skill points were suddenly able to be traded for Balth Faction, I know what I'd be spending the majority of mine on. The people who reject one are going to reject the other, and probably for much the same reasons. If it wasn't for keys, in fact, I'd guess the main objection to the proposal would be 'what's the point' - I don't really see anyone complaining about an experienced PvE player being able to convert skill points into unlocks or making fancy skins for a PvP character.

However, other proposals have been made that aren't based around zkeys, either directly or through the medium of Balth faction, and I'd be curious as to whether some of the people /notsigning would possibly /sign or at least /notcare to a proposal to use skill points as, for example, an alternate payment for favour blessings at Canthan and Elonian shrines.

The problem i see with using SPs for Balth Faction unlocks is who would then ever buy skills from a trader? No, PVE unlocks by finding items, and by buying skills...PVP gets the unlocks from BF. I do not see the need to alter this set up. My whole point is just in the Zchest not being what it was intended for anymore with the whole selling of the keys. Barring the XTH, the PVP has a corner on the market to sell to the PVE. This is not a good balance imo. Kind of like when the HA had control on who had access to the UW and FOW...Why should one aspect of the game have control over another? Since the Zchest is no longer JUST a PVP reward, it made sense to me that PVE use their SPs for this as well, since the PVP uses their spare BF for them. And with the XTH screwing with even the PVP control of the keys, what does it matter now? Other than the fact that the keys have become an alternate source of trade, and no one wants this to be effected, there is no other rational excuse or logical reason for this not to happen. If the keys had no value and were locked to an account and only that account, no one would be even arguing this. Greed has been the only counter point. Now i also believe that since the keys are tradable, that this idea is also being shot down because no one wants PVE to get richer. But since the majority of the buyers are PVE who ACTUALLY use the chest, this is a moot point, IMO.

As for using SPs on shrines, tomes, or much else that the PVE uses, many do not ever use these or have need of them. For me anyway, i can do HM without the need of anything a shrine has to offer, and i already have every skill offered. So this would be of no help. ID kits, salvage kits and lockpicks i could see use in. However as i have stated once, i can already see endless threads about how town controling guilds no longer have markets for these items that are already reduced priced that are sold ingame by thier members. And consumables cost more in mats and gold than most people have to use up all their SPs. So what else is left to use them on? PVP got to use their spare BF on something, so isnt it logical that the PVE get to use their spare SPs on something that helps them out? So instead of asking for a nice little PVE chest where more Dev time is required to implement....why not use it for the broken Zchest that we already have in game? PVE is already all over it anyway.

You can turn skill points into consumables, that's all you should be allowed to do. PVE and PVP need to be kept seperate as far as I'm concerned, or rather PVE should just be gotten rid of altogether.

/notsigned

The last thing we need is the price of zkeys dropping even more. Zkeys = cheaper = not as rare items = more economy slumpage.

Skill points for gold would be okay. Say a single skill point for 300g or so.

I dont see why not.

/signed