Switching from Sabway to Discordway

The Cutlass

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Mar 2008

P/W

Hello everyone! Just as a heads up, im a warrior with all skills unlocked. I was wondering what builds everyone else uses(that are discordway) because ive seen many variations on guru and ive heard that the ones on pvxwiki are horrible. not sure what else i can say, other than ill need it for dungeons on NM and HM and some tyria and elona vanquishes. but thanks to all who have helped/will help.

Eragon Zarroc

Eragon Zarroc

Atra estern?? ono thelduin

Join Date: Jan 2008

Madness Incarnate

[Duo]

W/P

use discord in the place of sabway elites. easy. adjust the attributes so the split into death magic. i'm a warrior also and i use a dragon slash/save yourselves build to maintain (nearly) constant 100 armor shout on my heros.

the savage nornbear

the savage nornbear

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Apr 2008

The Raging Cadavers [rage]

R/

I prefer to hex/condition the foes myself. So be prepared to do that. Maybe [[asuran scan] plus a condition from whatever weapon you're using. Also the pvx ones aren't that bad. [[Discord] is the main source of damage, the rest is just cake.

Lord Of Blame

Lord Of Blame

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2008

USA

Marked Souls [MkS]

E/N

Basically what Eragon said. Use the Sabway N/Rt & N/Mo bars but give them discord.

N/Rt 12 in restoration, put a death rune on headpiece to get at least a 12 in death, put everthing else in soul reaping

N/Mo 12 in protection, put a death rune on headpiece to get at least a 12 in death, put everthing else in soul reaping

N/ This is your discord MM bomber. You can run a Rt secondary with splinter weapon, or I usually run him with a ranger secondary for frozen soil, very helpful in some HM areas. My MM has two minion skills, death nova, discord, frozen soil or splinter weapon, parasitic bond, enfeeble, signet of lost souls. 16 in death, 8 in channelling or wilderness survival, 3 in curses, rest in soul reaping.

Lots of Warrior primaries run [assassins promise] for the hex. Use regular warrior skills for the condition or some of the norn PVE skills work well too. You can also use asura scan for the hex.

I run an E/N for my build and it works great as long as I can keep the hex and condition on. Which is normally not a problem for me, but as a warrior with little energy you may have a few issues where you will then need to manually have your MM apply the hex and condition. Assassins promise will work well for you as long as you do not get into an area with heavy hex removal, which will make the 45 sec recharge seem like an hour.

Marverick

Marverick

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

R/

Hmmm... I usually run my second necro as curses, with Enfeebling Blood, Weaken Armor, Barbs, etc, and with ~6 points in healing for Dwayna's Sorrow.
Aegis/Prot Spirit go on my MM with 9 in prot

If you're a physical, use Asuran Scan for the hex. No need to use AP.

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

variant on pvx was horrible now its better.

d-way is not sabway you cant use one variation everywhere, one that rocks in one area sucks in other, simple truth. Just switch between more heal or more protect n stuff.

IronSheik

IronSheik

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2008

Wolfenstein: Goldrush

Zombies Go Nom Nom [Nom]

N/

I run warriors endurance with [asuran scan]

Let's you spam it, and hex everything easily

syphonus

syphonus

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2007

The Dirtiest Parts Of My Mind

Phlying Skwirls[PS]

N/

Stick with sab imo. Melee primary+ discord= hassle

Daesu

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

Keep in mind that sabway and many posted discordway are generic builds and generic builds are good for people who dont like (or lazy) to think up good customized team builds for their characters and the areas they are in.

So if you follow sabway mindlessly, for example, you would be bringing anti-blocking hex even if you bring a full team of casters.

I dont even use sabway or discordway with my dervish. I use an enchantment heavy team with an Ether Renewal Ele because my dervish gets a health and energy boost whenever an enchantment ends. I found THIS to work better for my dervish than a generic sabway or discordway.

Klem Da Aussie

Klem Da Aussie

Academy Page

Join Date: Jul 2008

Australia

Team Everfrost [eF]

Mo/

td only to use 2 discord necs with the n/rt healer from sabway but with Icy Veins instead of the weapon elite.

As for myself, because im a monk i to be a smiters boon smite healer with ray and finsh him

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

Whats the problem with running a frontliner with d-way?????

I run my sin without that silly caller build and it works wonders, dont even bother to take any additional hexes. Guess you need to theorycraft bit less and play bit more????? :P

-Lotus-

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2008

not having a caller defeats the point of having a spike. you might as well be running something with more balance and pressure such as sabway.

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

Lol, discordway is not a spike.

Daesu

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

I dont create a warrior character just so he can cast spells and wand. If I want to cast spells and wand, I have my necro, mesmer, ele, and rit, so why wouldn't I use them instead? Unless you can prove that a warrior makes a better spell caster than a necro/ele/mesmer so all warriors should switch, which you cant.

And my warrior works just fine with sabway or discordway, but I use my own hero team build for him most of the time. You should fit the hero builds to your character, not the other way round.

Furthermore even if your specific sabway or discordway works well in most areas for lazy people, I am sure there are different hero builds that would work even better by customizing. Tell Sab what character and area, and I am sure she can customize a much better build for that specific instance, than the generic sabway or discordway.

dasmitchies

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2007

Sacred Forge Knights

W/P

Low energy recovery primaries do not work well with the pvx version of discordway. I found the best bet was to have the hero peeps bring weaken armor and aoe hexes to prime discord themselves. That means warriors can focus on casters and paragons can be Imba without worry. They will use discord without prompting and you can call the target to get them to focus if necessary.

Daesu

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

You can still use Asura Scan and a condition build on your warrior and it will work reasonably well with most discordway.

But one of the main strengths of melee characters is the ability to hold aggro, so a nuking hero team build works better with them than with caster characters.

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

Oh and daesu made a fair point you are bettwer off preventing some unneeded guests to the backlineish thing you have made with your heroes and henchies so you Mhenlo does more heealing and less running around in circles.

FengShuiDove

FengShuiDove

Forge Runner

Join Date: Sep 2007

Trinity of the Ascended [ToA]

A/

My standard bar on my Sin (main char) includes [Wounding Strike] and [Asuran Scan] for my own benefit. Whenever swapping targets, I call and prep for spike with Scan, with no exceptions. I always open with WS, so Discord follows up deep wound on top of Scan and boom, done. I've never run a caller. If I can't comfortably run a condition spam skill and a hex on my bar I won't run full Discord, though in general I prefer using Discord over Jagged Bones. It syncs incredibly well with the Curses Necro and adds damage at hardly any cost to the effectiveness of the minion bomber.

Cherng Butter

Cherng Butter

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2006

Maryland

The Mirror Of Reason [SNOW]

E/Mo

[Asuran Scan][Warrior's Endurance][Aura of Holy Might][Mystic Sweep][Protector's Strike]

Asuran Scan, call, spike with ready, quick activation attack skills. It's not like it's ranged or anything, but it's not like you need to build adrenaline or anything and it's pretty powerful. Throw in a speedbuff and you can zoom around faster.

You can get [Withering Aura] maintained on you if you'd like.

MasterSasori

MasterSasori

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2007

USA

[Thay]

R/Mo

Is having 2 heroes with Bone Minions necessary for an optimal Discordway? I recently modified Discordway to work with my Imbagon and stuck to 1 hero with Bone Minions. 20+ minions is enticing, but really, it sounds excessive.

daze

daze

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2008

In my own mind

The Dragon Exchange

E/

Minions are never necessary in a discord team. When i vanqed maguuma jungle and southern shiverpeaks, i kicked all minions all together and just brought more prot.
Minions are just more of a safety net and a convenience factor. They provide a nice meat shield and can put up nice conditions when they splode.

IMO if you are in an area with high corpse count, then it is definitely a better idea to have more minions. Simply because you will have a bigger meat shield and more condition spread. More boom.

But for areas with enemies that steal your minions, its just better to not bring a MM.

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

Quote:
Originally Posted by daze View Post
Minions are never necessary in a discord team. When i vanqed maguuma jungle and southern shiverpeaks, i kicked all minions all together and just brought more prot.
Full prot without heal is fail, large party wide heals /rits can bring trully wins pve and prot meh...you will take less damage but with nothing to heal with you die eventually and dont tell me henchies are enough theyre dum nobs. !

Quote:
Minions are just more of a safety net and a convenience factor. They provide a nice meat shield and can put up nice conditions when they splode. psst what about large aoe armor ignoring dommage when they assplode? O:

MasterSasori

MasterSasori

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2007

USA

[Thay]

R/Mo

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Igor View Post
Full prot without heal is fail, large party wide heals /rits can bring trully wins pve and prot meh...you will take less damage but with nothing to heal with you die eventually and dont tell me henchies are enough theyre dum nobs. !
I don't think he said he had less any less heal unless he ran Dwayna's Sorrow with the minions.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Igor View Post
psst what about large aoe armor ignoring dommage when they assplode? O: I might also want to mention that they spread conditions too, makes Discordway even easier to use.

daze

daze

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2008

In my own mind

The Dragon Exchange

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Igor View Post
Full prot without heal is fail, large party wide heals /rits can bring trully wins pve and prot meh...you will take less damage but with nothing to heal with you die eventually and dont tell me henchies are enough theyre dum nobs. !
psst, i never mentioned kicking the healer for more prot. I mentioned kicking the minion master. In my terminology, MM means Minion Master.

This is what my build ends up being when i kick the MM. I hope this clears up any confusion.

[[email protected]][signet of lost [email protected]][weaken [email protected]][shadow of [email protected]][enfeebling [email protected]][rip [email protected]][defile [email protected]][death pact signet] death 11+2, soul reaping10+1+1, Curses 10+1

[[email protected]][signet of lost [email protected]][putrid [email protected]][cure [email protected]][remove [email protected]][spotless [email protected]][healing [email protected]][renew [email protected]] death 11+2, soul reaping10+1+1, healing 10

[[email protected]][signet of lost [email protected]][putrid [email protected]][putrid [email protected]][[email protected]][protective [email protected]][shield of [email protected]][[email protected]] death 11+2, soul reaping10+1+1, protection 10

[[email protected]][signet of lost [email protected]][putrid [email protected]][putrid [email protected]][[email protected]][reversal of [email protected]][shielding [email protected]][dismiss [email protected]] death 11+2, soul reaping10+1+1, protection 10

[[email protected]][signet of lost [email protected]][weapon of [email protected]][[email protected]][mend body and [email protected]][protective was [email protected]][spirit [email protected]][flesh of my [email protected]] death 10+2, soul reaping10+1+1, restoration 11

[[email protected]][signet of lost [email protected]][vengeful [email protected]][[email protected]][mend body and [email protected]][protective was [email protected]][spirit [email protected]][death pact [email protected]] death 10+2, soul reaping10+1+1, restoration 11


Take in to account that i am running a condition heavy build myself so i am aware that the heroes are light on condition causing.

Quote: Originally Posted by Super Igor View Post
psst what about large aoe armor ignoring dommage when they assplode? O: that is a given. At least [putrid explosion] makes up for the lack of explosions a little bit. although its not near as devastating as 8 minions exploding on a mob in a few seconds.



when enemies have [veratas aura] or [veratas gaze]

there are certain areas in prophecys mostly where there are either no corpses to exploit or where the enemies will steal your minions

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daesu View Post
Actually minion deaths do trigger soul reaping. But you can only gain energy through SR, 3 times every 15s. Hmm, i know they used to, but i guess i always assumed that was nerfed.

Daesu

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by daze View Post
I just remember trying to vanquish Kessex peak with 3 minion masters. I was not happy when i would have 20+ minions turned against me.
Why would you purposefully bring 3 MMs against Verata and his gang? That would be like studying the area then coming up with a build that would suck as much as possible.

I dont think I have ever brought 3 MMs, not even in the usual areas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver View Post
It's not always that cut-and-dry.

I tried giving Olias Verata's Gaze when I did some areas of the jungle, or Witman's Folly. He's either completely outnumbered by Moss Scarabs spamming it, or the power of VA means one Grawl can steal a whole minion army in one foul swoop. This is not to mention the fact that, in my experience with giving him Verata's Gaze, he doesn't use it as often as he could or should, making it a bit of a waste.

I strongly feel it's better to not give the foes the option to steal minions straight off. They seem to use VG often enough for me.

With 1 minion bomber, it wasn't that bad because you can still make fresh minions. If it is that devastating to have your minions turned against you then your team would be in trouble whenever your MM dies (i.e. single point of failure). I would look into the team build as a whole. On the hand, if there are too many ceatures in the area with VA/VG then sure, there may not be much point in bringing an MM.

daze

daze

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2008

In my own mind

The Dragon Exchange

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daesu View Post
Why would you purposefully bring 3 MMs against Verata and his gang? That would be like studying the area then coming up with a build that would suck as much as possible.
Or i was just on a roll vanquishing from ToA with a party of 8. And by the time i got down to Kessex, minions become less useful.

Quote: Originally Posted by Daesu View Post I dont think I have ever brought 3 MMs, not even in the usual areas.
When i use 6 hero discordway i usually have olias set as full MM bar, then my protter with shambling. then my curser with another shambling.. Hence 3 minion masters.. You probably already know this but a minion master doesnt have to have a full bar dedicated to minions.. If a character has ONE minion skill on his bar and has 1 point in death magic, then he is a minion master because he can master at least one minion.

Quote: Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver View Post
I strongly feel it's better to not give the foes the option to steal minions straight off. I concur with this statement