Worlds.com Files Suit Against NCsoft - Every Other MMO Company To Follow? - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

SpiritThief

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2008

R/Me

30 Dec 2008 at 04:16 - 1

Quote:

90's virtual world developers Worlds.com has fired the first shot in what could be a game company-spanning battle as they file suit against NCsoft for infringing on their patent for multiplayer virtual environments.

The patent at question is 7,181,690, "System and Method for Enabling Users to Interact in a Virtual Space", which was file in August of 2000 and finally issued in February of last year. Reading over the patent, it basically covers the client/server-based system every single MMO on the market uses to allow multiple players to view and interact with each other in a virtual world. The suit, filed on Christmas Eve, claims that NCsoft has infringed on this patent across all of its MMO titles, from City of Heroes to Guild Wars to Dungeon Runners. After reading over the patent, it looks like they've actually got a pretty solid case on their hands.

Worlds seeks damages from NCsoft, as well as assurances that the MMO publisher will not infringe on their second patent, 6,219,045 - "Scalable Virtual World Chat Client-Server System".

Mark my words here - NCsoft is just the beginning. Their patent pretty much covers every instance where users with avatars interact in a virtual space. From Second Life to World of Warcraft, PlayStation Home to Anarchy Online; everything massively online and multiplayer falls under this patent. This should be interesting, folks.

Source

So it looks like every MMO on the planet will need to shut down? And btw who the **** are worlds.com???

Quote:

Virtual world patent holder Worlds.com filed suit against NCSoft in December, claiming its games, including City of Heroes and Guild Wars, were violating its patent for multiplayer virtual environments. And it won't stop there.

Worlds.com CEO Thom Kidrin says that the company "absolutely" has intentions of going after other big virtual world creators, including Blizzard for World of Warcraft and Linden Labs for Second Life, reports Business Insider. That depends, of course, if Worlds.com is successful with its suit against NCSoft.

Kidrin says that Worlds.com's patent for "System and Method for Enabling Users to Interact in a Virtual Space" dates back to 1997. It's based on the work done on the Steven Spielberg-backed Starbright World, a virtual world service design to "educate, entertain and inspire seriously ill children."

That patent were inherited by Worlds.com.

Don't worry, addicted MMOers. Looks like Kidrin and company are looking for a little cash in the form of licensing fees from Blizzard, et al. Your virtual world of choice won't likely be shuttered. But we'll see.

Source

Good times eh?

Issac

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Oct 2006

Earthrealm

W/A

30 Dec 2008 at 04:26 - 2

The last thing they would want to do is shut down WoW, those 11 million people would riot lol. I don't know if their ganna be able to pull it off.

lordheinous

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Aug 2007

30 Dec 2008 at 04:37 - 3

Assuming the stated summary is factual and not just hyperbole, the people who issue patents need to get a slap across the face. How the hell is interaction through avatars in a virtual world patentable? Hell, how can it even be considered an original idea? It doesn't take some slick genius to figure out that video game multiplayed could make use of the internet to work with people in other places. This is ridiculous, if anything happens from this, I can guarantee that a mob of wow-addicts will likely storm whatever garage this "worlds.com" is located in.

seut

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2005

Europa

30 Dec 2008 at 04:38 - 4

the patent itself
http://www.google.com/patents?id=wv5...J&dq=7,181,690
...evil penguins

a few more details:
http://www.virtualworldsnews.com/200...ft-update.html

Quote:

"Being a foreign defendant in Texas is not a pleasant thing," he said of NCsoft, which is primarily a Korean company. "The juries are, many would say, biased towards American plaintiffs and have a propensity to offer high damages. Some defendants might view them as an unfriendly jury and it might make the defendant more likely to settle."

Many observers have speculated that since Worlds.com's patent was only granted in 2007 and filed in 2000, there may be too many examples of prior art, including NCsoft's own games, for the patent to stand. Roth explained that the patent itself is actually continued on from a much earlier filing date, November 13, 1995, putting it ahead of NCsoft's founding in 1997.

Sir Skullcrasher

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

California

15 over 50 [Rare]

W/Mo

30 Dec 2008 at 04:44 - 5

so no more GW 2 cuz Worlds.com think they owned that idea of a "Virtual World"!!

*end sarcasm*

fowlero

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2007

England, UK

We Are The One And Only [rR]

30 Dec 2008 at 04:47 - 6

I love that idea of the worlds MMO players descending on these people greedy to make some fast money haha.

Question being that patent was issued in 2007, why's it come out now?

Roy_

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2008

Whatever Floats Your [Boat]

A/

30 Dec 2008 at 04:47 - 7

wow, then Microsoft should be going down the crapper too, Halo 3 on live? or CoD4&5? Not to mentions Sony's big virtual world thing on the PS3...

Nessar

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2008

West Siiiiiiiiiiiiiide

Gwen Has A Thing For [Pyre]

30 Dec 2008 at 04:47 - 8

I lol'd irl reading this. I doubt this will get anywhere.

StormDragonZ

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2008

New York

W/R

30 Dec 2008 at 04:50 - 9

Non-Serious Statement: Just in time for the holidays!

Serious Statement: Interesting to know that just about anything is viable for suing people over. Nonetheless, GW and WoW having to be cancelled/ended due to worlds.com case against copyright infringement? Only real grinches would do such a thing...

MrGuildBoi

Desert Nomad

Join Date: May 2006

A/

30 Dec 2008 at 04:51 - 10

rofl. if you go to worlds.com their graphics aint that great. is it like a game?

DoomFrost

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: May 2005

Florida

E/

30 Dec 2008 at 04:52 - 11

This is going to be hilarious.

BoondockSaint

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2006

R/Me

30 Dec 2008 at 04:54 - 12

Will most likly not achieve anything. If you notice, they are not seeking to shut down these MMO's but rather seek damages. Intreasting to me because I just started my first year of law school and one of our classes delt with patent issues. My guess is that it will be overturned because the patent is to vague, or that such a thing (online avatars) is essentually unable to be patented, I however have not completly read the patent.

Will be intreasting to see.

Chocobo1

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2007

New Zealand

CoA

N/

30 Dec 2008 at 04:54 - 13

Rofl epic win. Patenting the most common thing in all multiplayer games sure is going to pay off.

Bowstring Badass

Forge Runner

Join Date: Nov 2005

Character selection screen figuring what I want to play...

Purple Lingerie - :D

30 Dec 2008 at 04:55 - 14

Useless law suit is useless.

They are practically suing nintendo, microsoft, sony and all the big hitters with this law suit. Hope they have fun with this in the courthouse.

traiur

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2006

Feathermoore Clan

R/Mo

30 Dec 2008 at 04:58 - 15

Sadly if you actually read the patent it is a viable thing. Its patenting the system that all mmos currently run off of. It is not patenting avatars.

However I doubt it will go anywere. The patent cant possibly hold up with so many companies using the system and after such a long time. It is amusing that it was filed christmas eve though.

Winterclaw

Wark!!!

Join Date: May 2005

Florida

W/

30 Dec 2008 at 05:05 - 16

What will happen is NCSoft will have an injunction filed which would allow them to keep selling games if a judge permits it. After that, if world.com wins they'll probably end up getting a small fee every time a game is sold, and maybe on every monthly payment as well.

This is not to shut online games down, this is to milk a jug-full of money from the bosoms of the online game companies... whether it be the DDDs of WoW or the A cup of CCP.

itznitro

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2005

We are your friends

R/

30 Dec 2008 at 05:10 - 17

Finally a real-life use for the "What is a Guild Wars" quote, These judges are going to be clueless.

Zokocow

Academy Page

Join Date: Nov 2007

E/Me

30 Dec 2008 at 05:14 - 18

It will be fun to see them file against Blizzard and the ridiculous lawyers they'll be able to afford.

Burst Cancel

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2006

Domain of Broken Game Mechanics

30 Dec 2008 at 05:15 - 19

The fact that "a lot of companies are using it" doesn't have any bearing on the patent's validity. As noted above, while the patent itself was filed in 2000, it is a continuation of an earlier patent filed in 1996. The pertinent questions are therefore: 1) is the claimed subject matter disclosed in the parent application, and 2) if yes, is there invalidating prior art as of the priority date (1996)?

Further, it should be noted that the summary and abstract do not necessarily indicate the subject matter being claimed; what's most important in a patent is the claims themselves. In this case, however, the claims are quite broad. For instance, claim 1 reads:

Quote:

1. A method for enabling a first user to interact with other users in a virtual space, wherein the first user and the other users each have an avatar and a client process associated therewith, and wherein each client process is in communication with a server process, wherein the method comprises:

(a) receiving a position of less than all of the other users' avatars from the server process; and

(b) determining, from the received positions, a set of the other users' avatars that are to be displayed to the first user,

wherein steps (a) and (b) are performed by the client process associated with the first user.

Without reading the disclosure, it doesn't seem like it would take an MMO per se to invalidate this claim. The original Warcraft, for instance, was released in 1994, and may be good enough. The critical limitation here would be "less than all of the other users' avatars"; that might be a bit harder to find, depending on how the phrase is construed.

Aera

Forge Runner

Join Date: Dec 2005

Galactic President Superstar Mc [awsm]

E/

30 Dec 2008 at 05:16 - 20

I hereby claim patent on the phenomenon 'breathing'. Everybody who breathes without paying me, will be sued.

That's basically what worlds.com are doing.

Lyynyyrd

Banned

Join Date: Jun 2008

Aussie Trolling Crew - Spah!

30 Dec 2008 at 05:18 - 21

Quote:

Originally Posted by sir skullcrasher

so no more gw 2 cuz worlds.com think they owned that idea of a "virtual world"!!

*end sarcasm* :d

gw2 never existed

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aera

I hereby claim patent on the phenomenon 'breathing'. Everybody who breathes without paying me, will be sued.

That's basically what worlds.com are doing.

In order for something to be patentable it must be non-obvious - the process of breathing is quite obvious. At the time of Worlds.com's application for the patent (2000), the idea of a bunch of geeks getting together, hiding behind avatars and playing video games together was not so obvious.

(Surely the idea of a multiplayer online game existed - however, the key word here is MASSIVELY; was it obvious in the year 2000 that video games would involve eleven million players?)

Shayne Hawke

Departed from Tyria

Join Date: May 2007

Clan Dethryche [dth]

R/

30 Dec 2008 at 05:20 - 22

You want to challenge every MMO on the market, plus any that may be in development?

Good luck with that.

Sir Skullcrasher

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2005

California

15 over 50 [Rare]

W/Mo

30 Dec 2008 at 05:22 - 23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zokocow

It will be fun to see them file against Blizzard and the ridiculous lawyers they'll be able to afford.

Watch Bill Gates hire a boat load of lawyers to fight this lawsuit!

traiur

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2006

Feathermoore Clan

R/Mo

30 Dec 2008 at 05:27 - 24

Islands of Kesmai went live 1984....Im pretty darn sure it used the client based system. I dont see how an mmo could exist that didnt. That pretty much invalidates Wold's claim on the patent right there

Trylo

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jan 2006

[Here] | CKOD

E/R

30 Dec 2008 at 05:28 - 25

"Worlds leverages its patented proprietary technology in partnership with brand leaders in specific market segments to offer users multi-user environments that have interactive Avatars, rich media graphics, text chat, voice-to-voice chat, video and e-commerce."
-http://www.worlds.com/about.html

um, i think they patented the internet. /facepalm

dartz180

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Aug 2008

Hmmm... I don't know.

lfg guild

30 Dec 2008 at 05:32 - 26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sir Skullcrasher

Watch Bill Gates hire a boat load of lawyers to fight this lawsuit!

Microsoft doesn't need lawyers, they hire ninjas!

dasmitchies

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2007

Sacred Forge Knights

W/P

30 Dec 2008 at 05:32 - 27

This a shakedown, pure and simple. They chose GW first because they don't have the deep pockets WOW has to defend the suit as well. If they can get a precedent from a weaker MMO then they will go after the bigguns. That being said, all GW has to prove is the technology is markebly different or that the patent creates an unfair monopoly from what is common knowledge. Worlds may have had a patent pending, but they never tried to enforce it prior to now and that will kill the patent outright on appeal.

ssddghost

Academy Page

Join Date: Oct 2006

Wisconsin

AInc

A/E

30 Dec 2008 at 05:34 - 28

if they sued and pulled it off, would they not technically be breaking every games EULA by getting real money for ingame items? :P

SpiritThief

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2008

R/Me

30 Dec 2008 at 05:35 - 29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zokocow

It will be fun to see them file against Blizzard and the ridiculous lawyers they'll be able to afford.

They pretty much already did when they went to NC. Would be silly for other companies to just sit by and watch. If NC loses then it would make it even easier to do it to the others.

Basicly worlds.com delcared war against every and all MMO companies.

Oh and still they weren't anywhere near the frist.

Quote:

Although MMORPGs, as defined today, have only existed since the early 1990s,[4] all MMORPGs can trace a lineage back to the earliest multi-user games which started appearing in the late 1970s

source We all know how much courts like using the wiki

Neverwinter Nights started in like 1990 way before them. Its just a losing a company who I bet is about ready to fall under trying to make a easy buck.

blood4blood

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2005

30 Dec 2008 at 05:36 - 30

Two words: "settlement" and "licensing."

*shrug* Yeah, I am a lawyer in real life.

traiur

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Oct 2006

Feathermoore Clan

R/Mo

30 Dec 2008 at 05:38 - 31

Quote:

Originally Posted by blood4blood

Two words: "settlement" and "licensing."

*shrug* Yeah, I am a lawyer in real life.

why settle when nc soft can drag that silly company under?

snaek

Forge Runner

Join Date: Mar 2006

N/

30 Dec 2008 at 05:43 - 32

but ultima online came out in 97 and everquest came out in 99????

oh and isnt gw -not- an mmo, and therefore safe from this patent? lawl

jackinthe

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2007

30 Dec 2008 at 05:46 - 33

issued last year...
games out previously...
monopoly on online gaming? i don't think so.

Lady of the Keep

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Nov 2006

Society of Aina

R/Me

30 Dec 2008 at 05:47 - 34

Interesting on how they are filing a lawsuit over linage (came out in '97) when their patent starts in 2000.

Avarre

Bubblegum Patrol

Join Date: Dec 2005

Singapore Armed Forces

30 Dec 2008 at 05:50 - 35

ammad2006

Banned

Join Date: Aug 2008

30 Dec 2008 at 05:56 - 36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trylo

"Worlds leverages its patented proprietary technology in partnership with brand leaders in specific market segments to offer users multi-user environments that have interactive Avatars, rich media graphics, text chat, voice-to-voice chat, video and e-commerce."
-http://www.worlds.com/about.html

um, i think they patented the internet. /facepalm

Exactly what I was thinking.

This challenges like every single game ever made.

Time for Blizzard to take out the ninjas...

blood4blood

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Oct 2005

30 Dec 2008 at 06:13 - 37

Quote:

Originally Posted by traiur

why settle when nc soft can drag that silly company under?

Economics. I don't know the facts well enough to speculate about the details. As a general matter, the best long-term outcome for the plaintiff is if it can get an economic return on its patented product, usually in the form of a licensing agreement of some kind. In other words, GW, WoW, and all the other games keep going, but all those game companies pay some % to the plaintiff patent holder. Since the plaintiff appears to be claiming that their product has already been used by other companies for years, I would guess the plaintiff is going to want some compensation for that past use as well as an agreement to payment in the future. Will they get it? I have no idea. But in many cases there is an economic balancing point where it becomes cheaper to settle - assuming an agreement can be reached - rather than to continue a lawsuit, especially if the plaintiff's case has enough merit that the defendant might lose outright.

Molock

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Sep 2006

Qu??bec

Legacy of Angels [Halo]

E/

30 Dec 2008 at 06:37 - 38

What a joke. Worlds.com is a failure, they should give up while they still can.

Abedeus

Grotto Attendant

Join Date: Jan 2007

Niflheim

R/

30 Dec 2008 at 06:53 - 39

Okay, I know what will happen.

1. Worlds.com loses in court.
2. NCSoft sues it for slander.
3. NCSoft wins.
4. NCSoft releases Guild... I mean Aion 6 months earlier and we all live happier.

AKB48

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jul 2008

みやき町

Mo/A

30 Dec 2008 at 06:55 - 40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Issac

The last thing they would want to do is shut down WoW, those 11 million people would riot lol. I don't know if their ganna be able to pull it off.

They aren't gonna shut down WoW, Blizzard isn't exactly your push-over company, you know?( But it'd be cool to see 11million getting pissed off for shutting down WoW)

Also, if the patent covers ALL mmos, why did Worlds started by suing NCsoft, but not companies like Sony or Blizzard? Because it doesn't want to bite off more than it can chew. Some companies are simply too big for Worlds to swallow right now, it needs a foot hold for the "main offensive" that is to come later.(if Worlds wins this suit) But there would be no clear winner in this suit, as with suits between "large" companies.(money would be spend, of course, the whole suit thing originated because Worlds want $$ during this economic recession. The violation of its patent is merely a nice excuse for collecting its $$. Worlds is literally saying to NCsoft : "hey, we need $$, and guess what, since you violated our patent, we are gonna drink off your blood first!")

Desperate times call for Desperate measures (Hamlet IV.iii)