Hi - This is a good dervish build, stop asking if yours is.

Snow Bunny

Snow Bunny

Alcoholic From Yale

Join Date: Jul 2007

Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]

Yes, I know Celestial Beaver wrote a Dervish guide, and while it is indeed quite a good guide, I don't think many newer players are paying it much heed, mainly due to the fact that it's a guide and most 12-year olds think they are too good for guides.

So here's the build. You don't need self-heals or nancy-boy defense measures. You're a frontline melee, kill shit.

[avatar of melandru][asuran scan][aura of holy might][Eternal Aura][attacker's insight][draw conditions][wearying strike][mystic sweep]

Don't take a rez, use a midliner for that. Draw conditions because the avatar's effects should be abused. Go blow stuff up. Feel free to criticize.

Nessie Mareschall

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Sep 2008

The Divine Eclipse

D/Mo

>_>
should post the code for that build
i wanna abuse it once i get the second skill xD

Marverick

Marverick

Forge Runner

Join Date: Aug 2006

R/

Ehm... no... just no....

You are not going to have the energy to use Asuran Scan and Draw Conditions...

And you're a Dervish; leave the conditioning to Paragons and Monks.

[Aura of Holy Might][Heart of Fury][Eremite's Attack][Mystic Sweep][Protector's Strike]["Save Yourselves!"][Eternal Aura][Avatar of Lyssa]

[Zealous Vow][Asuran Scan][Radiant Scythe][Mystic Sweep][Eremite's Attack][Whirling Charge][Dwarven Stability][Aura of Holy Might]


and to the above poster... AoHM makes you deal holy damage... so no conjure flame or orders...

Codin The Great

Codin The Great

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2008

You will never know!!!!

Guardians of Hades [GoH]

W/E

ive always needed a good build for my dervish, and u guys got good ones. But anyone got 1 with avatar of balth?

Crim The Elder

Crim The Elder

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2009

Indiana State University (NOT IU)

Eviscerated Lamb Chops To [Go]

Me/E

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Bunny View Post
Yes, I know Celestial Beaver wrote a Dervish guide, and while it is indeed quite a good guide, I don't think many newer players are paying it much heed, mainly due to the fact that it's a guide and most 12-year olds think they are too good for guides.

So here's the build. You don't need self-heals or nancy-boy defense measures. You're a frontline melee, kill shit.
I do agree with you that most 12 year olds are stubborn and think they can do things by themselves but thats an age thing. I agree that the dervish should be a frontline fighter and not a nancy boy. I also read Celestial Beaver dervish guide and I did like them but none of them felt like the way I like to play my dervish. You must also remember that those are only some of the ways you can play as a Dervish and you must notice that some of those tested skill lists were not created by Celestial Beaver but other players. Those other players could just be a bunch of stubborn arrogant 12 year olds who want to think their list is better than anyone elses.

Konig Des Todes

Konig Des Todes

Ooo, pretty flower

Join Date: Jan 2008

Citadel of the Decayed

The Archivists' Sanctum [Lore]

N/

I am lol'ing at this thread. "This is a good build" "No, this is" "You're both wrong, this is a good build!" "No, no, no you're doing it wrong, this is a good build."

xD

I Jonas I

I Jonas I

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jul 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Bunny View Post
Yes, I know Celestial Beaver wrote a Dervish guide, and while it is indeed quite a good guide, I don't think many newer players are paying it much heed, mainly due to the fact that it's a guide and most 12-year olds think they are too good for guides.

So here's the build. You don't need self-heals or nancy-boy defense measures. You're a frontline melee, kill shit.

[avatar of melandru][asuran scan][aura of holy might][Eternal Aura][attacker's insight][draw conditions][wearying strike][mystic sweep]

Don't take a rez, use a midliner for that. Draw conditions because the avatar's effects should be abused. Go blow stuff up. Feel free to criticize.
That's the best build posted so far in the thread. I would take [Lyssa's Assault] over [Attacker's insight]. No point in specing into wind prayers so you save 5 energy, so you might as well get a free +damage attack and +1 energy.

ac1inferno

ac1inferno

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Aug 2007

Boston

We D Shot Your Stances [GODS]

A/W

better to just link a couple of PvXwiki build pages.
1. http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build/E_AoG_PvE
2. http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:D/...Conditions_AoM
3. http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:D/...Orders_Dervish
4. http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:D/...Attack_Spammer
5. http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:D/...Attack_Spammer
6. http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:D/...atar_of_Dwayna
7.
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:D/...ru_PvE_Dervish
8.
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:D/...ounding_Strike
9.
http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:D/...%27s_Sweep_PvE

Cebe

Cebe

The 5th Celestial Boss

Join Date: Jul 2006

Inverness, Scotland

The Cult of Scaro [WHO]

E/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crim The Elder View Post
I also read Celestial Beaver dervish guide and I did like them but none of them felt like the way I like to play my dervish. You must also remember that those are only some of the ways you can play as a Dervish and you must notice that some of those tested skill lists were not created by Celestial Beaver but other players.
This is quite true. Many people have their own idea on how they want to play a class. The specimen builds in the guide are simply there to act as a starting point for those with absolutely no idea what they're doing. I like to think it might catch a few people who, instead of posting "I need a good build", read the guide, choose a specimen build, and adapt it for themselves, of course there is no real way of knowing this...one can only hope.

Quote: I have derv'd much more than you and I can tell you that Orders does not compensate for Attacker's Insight.

Everyone has this huge erection for Eremite's Attack, which stems from the "Well, PvPers used it, we should use it too" school of thought. Let me explain something - Eremite's was used because of a 1/2 second activation time, which meant that you could spike someone with it. WS was used because of the strength of signet mesmers, which meant against 60 AL targets you could throw DW onto lvl20's which packed around 500-600 HP apiece. Seeing as I monked a lot in the WS+SigMes meta, I can tell you that WS was to constrict the ability of monks to heal through the dervs' heavy damage, mainly applied through Mystic Sweep and Chilling Victory. WS does not tack on additional damage - it's DW every 3 seconds, which is much stronger in PvP than in PvE. In PvE, your damage is nettled against lvl28's with a boatload more armor than you, and thus the damage bonus, with DW every 6 seconds, which is quite quick, is more useful than DW and no damage every 3. If you think bleeding matters AT ALL you really need to rethink your arguments. You don't need DW every 3 seconds - zero conditions (No: cripple, disease, blind, deep wound, etc.) WITH deep wound is much stronger.

In PvP, WS dervs came into the spotlight with signet mesmers, and died out after signet mesmers, mainly because they're so easy to spike, with their 70 armor. Melandru's dervs were amazingly strong in PvP, and were strong until they were nerfed quite hard. Eternal Aura bypasses this.

As much as you all like to glamorize balling enemies up, it's not as common as one would think, or at least too uncommon to justify eremite's which would do less damage WITH ALL CONDITIONS met than either victorious or mystic in the current build.

Certain criticisms I'll allow, but the builds posted in response are pretty mediocre in comparison.

Darkside

Darkside

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2006

Chantry of Secrets

[Angl]

D/

Quote:
Originally Posted by MegaVolti View Post
Above average build but not quite perfect.

1. [asuran scan] on a Dervish is questionable. You want to hit 3 foes if possible and [[asuran scan] works only on one. On top of that you need about all your mana to spam attack skills, which is (if you position yourself right) more effective then casting [asuran scan]
Originally Posted by Jonas The Keen
No point in specing into wind prayers so you save 5 energy Attacker's Insight is often used to power expensive skills such as [[Chilling Victory], not just cheap 5-energy attacks, and while that in itself may not seem like much of an improvement, please remember AI can be cast well before battle, and you can have your energy back up to maximum allowing you to properly unleash the fury with less concern of running low on energy. AI is also useful in Avatar of Melandru builds because of the massive Avatar cost to begin with. I would also note that AI only needs to be used at 6 Wind Prayers to hit the 2-attack clause.

Improvavel

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2007

No. You only need 3+1 wind prayers for [[Attacker's insight @4]. That will reduce the cost of the next 2 attacks. If they cost 10 energy, they will cost 1. If they cost 5 they will cost 0.

Also, [[Attacker's Insight @4] is an enchantment. When it ends, at 12 mysticism will return 4 energy. More, it will combo with eternal aura for double duty.
[[Attacker's insight @4] + a zealous scythe is all the energy management you will ever need. Always keep a staff with your Melandru's in case dead happen as you will only have 25 energy.

Darkside

Darkside

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2006

Chantry of Secrets

[Angl]

D/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Bunny View Post
Yes, I know Celestial Beaver wrote a Dervish guide, and while it is indeed quite a good guide, I don't think many newer players are paying it much heed, mainly due to the fact that it's a guide and most 12-year olds think they are too good for guides.

So here's the build. You don't need self-heals or nancy-boy defense measures. You're a frontline melee, kill shit.

[avatar of melandru][asuran scan][aura of holy might][Eternal Aura][attacker's insight][draw conditions][wearying strike][mystic sweep]

Don't take a rez, use a midliner for that. Draw conditions because the avatar's effects should be abused. Go blow stuff up. Feel free to criticize.
Not much to criticize it's a solid build. My only concern would be whether or not you have the energy to be using [asuran scan] and [draw conditions] all that often.

Here are my three favorite builds that I've used and found effective.

[Avatar of Melandru][attacker's insight][wearying strike][aura of holy might][eternal aura][heart of fury][optional][optional]

[avatar of Lyssa][mystic sweep][eremite's attack][aura of holy might][eternal aura][heart of fury][optional][optional]

[asuran scan][attacker's insight][wounding strike][mystic sweep][aura of holy might][drunken master][optional][optional]

I find these three to be very solid and still have two open slots for whatever you may need for a particular area. Most versatile secondary is probably /w for [wild blow][flail][protector's strike]and [save yourselves!]

DarkNecrid

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jul 2006

Yeah sorry about that build, I was tired as hell when I posted that and was so wrong hahahahaha. However even if you remove the Conjure & OOP from it, it still does a lot of damage. Although I really really would go with Snow's build in the OP since it is way more versatile.

Snow Bunny

Snow Bunny

Alcoholic From Yale

Join Date: Jul 2007

Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]

Why do you all keep suggesting [Protector's strike]?
You do realize that it's linked to strength, giving it +10 damage if you hit them while moving. That's really pretty bad for a PvE dervish.

Also, stop putting [Avatar of balthazar] in your builds - it's bad. It's just IMS and armor. [wearying strike] spam is much better than [pious assault], and AoM+Wearying is a much stronger overall frontliner than say, a dervish with [wounding strike].

As for my build, swap out [draw conditions] for [heart of fury] and my build beats yours.

[attacker's insight] is quite good - it's a perfect energy engine in the build.

-Lotus-

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Bunny View Post
AoM+Wearying is a much stronger overall frontliner than say, a dervish with [wounding strike]. lol wut

123456789

Improvavel

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Apr 2007

Quote:
Originally Posted by -Lotus- View Post
lol wut

123456789 AoM dervishes don't melt as fast as WS ones.

Yggdrasil

Academy Page

Join Date: Apr 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Bunny View Post
Why do you all keep suggesting [Protector's strike]? It's being suggested in relation to Lyssa builds, where the activation time is the deciding factor not the skills' + damage, being able to get a quick attack in during skill activation will net a much larger bonus from your avatar in that case.

iVendetta

iVendetta

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Nov 2008

Where no man has ever gone before.

Syndicate Nightmare [SyN]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Bunny View Post
[Avatar of Melandru]+[Wearying Strike] is a much stronger overall frontliner than say, a dervish with [wounding strike]. [Wounding Strike][Malicious Strike]
I just inflicted bleeding and deep wound, hit a deadly critical with an extra 10 points of damage, and saved 20 energy.

Also saves a slot for a skill that would've been [Eternal Aura].


In all seriousness, I see the ideology behind AoM and Wearying Strike, but taking into consideration the fact that you will have monks (PvE), there isn't really much to worry about conditions.

Snow Bunny

Snow Bunny

Alcoholic From Yale

Join Date: Jul 2007

Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]

An AoM dervish does comparable damage, and is more resilient, than the WS derv.

Darkside

Darkside

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2006

Chantry of Secrets

[Angl]

D/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Bunny View Post
An AoM dervish does comparable damage, and is more resilient, than the WS derv. A good bar with Avatar of Melandru on it is probably the most versatile bar you can have as a dervish. Being immune to conditions takes away a lot of melee hate, but I'm not sure the damage is comparable.

WS builds don't have the energy restrictions that someone with Avatar of Melandru on their bar does. WS with a little e-management can spam deep wound and spike attacks almost indefinitely.

A Melandru build on the other hand has to watch energy lvls very carefully because if the avatar goes down...your wonderful wearying strike becomes not only useless but a liability. Sure you can use it to dw someone but after that you're weakened and your next swing won't be packing much of a punch. Not to mention if a battle runs long and you have to put the avatar up again mid battle. Once it's back up you have zero energy for attack skills or enchantments and you could be left c spacing without an IAS which really lowers your damage potential.

Both have their advantages and disadvantages but from my experience my WS build has higher dps then my Melandru build. Of course if you're blind your dps is close to nil and that's where the versatility of Melandru comes in.

Pick your build depending on the foes you will encounter. Don't limit yourself to one build its a sure way to fail.

MegaVolti

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2008

Me/Rt

Above average build but not quite perfect.

1. [[asuran scan] on a Dervish is questionable. You want to hit 3 foes if possible and [[asuran scan] works only on one. On top of that you need about all your mana to spam attack skills, which is (if you position yourself right) more effective then casting [[asuran scan]

2. You should mention heroes. Always bring [[order of pain], [[dark fury] and [[patient spirit]. It doesn't matter if you don't need adrenalin or the bonus damage doesn't trigger on you. It gives you unlimited mana, more even then Necromancers get from Soul Reaping. Always bring them (and somebody in your party will have a use for it besides energy gain).

3. With those skills your need for [[attacker's insight] is gone. And you now have enough mana to spam attack skills. Bring [[eremite's attack] and either [[victorious sweep] or [[heart of fury] instead of [[attacker's insight] and [[asuran scan].

In short:
[avatar of melandru][heart of fury][aura of holy might][Eternal Aura][draw conditions][wearying strike][eremite's attack][mystic sweep]
[avatar of melandru][aura of holy might][Eternal Aura][draw conditions][wearying strike][eremite's attack][mystic sweep][victorious sweep]

Heroes:
[order of pain][dark fury][patient spirit]

Snow Bunny

Snow Bunny

Alcoholic From Yale

Join Date: Jul 2007

Strong Foreign Policy [sFp]

Quote:
Originally Posted by MegaVolti View Post
Above average build but not quite perfect.

1. [[asuran scan] on a Dervish is questionable. You want to hit 3 foes if possible and [[asuran scan] works only on one. On top of that you need about all your mana to spam attack skills, which is (if you position yourself right) more effective then casting [[asuran scan]

2. You should mention heroes. Always bring [[order of pain], [[dark fury] and [[patient spirit]. It doesn't matter if you don't need adrenalin or the bonus damage doesn't trigger on you. It gives you unlimited mana, more even then Necromancers get from Soul Reaping. Always bring them (and somebody in your party will have a use for it besides energy gain).

3. With those skills your need for [[attacker's insight] is gone. And you now have enough mana to spam attack skills. Bring [[eremite's attack] and either [[victorious sweep] or [[heart of fury] instead of [[attacker's insight] and [[asuran scan].

In short:
[avatar of melandru][heart of fury][aura of holy might][Eternal Aura][draw conditions][wearying strike][eremite's attack][mystic sweep]
[avatar of melandru][aura of holy might][Eternal Aura][draw conditions][wearying strike][eremite's attack][mystic sweep][victorious sweep]
It's not questionable at all your dps is increased by an insane amount on your primary target and you still do your normal damage vs adjacent foes if any...and with 25-30 energy using [attacker's insight] I've not found it to be an energy hog. I can cast it pretty liberally unless I run into heavy e-denial which doesn't happen all that often.

Quote:
Swap for a Staff, Cast avatar, Attacker's Insight and some other random enchantment, get your scythe and resume killing. Yah and start c spacing because you will have a negative energy pool.

Quote:
As much as you all like to glamorize balling enemies up, it's not as common as one would think, or at least too uncommon to justify eremite's which would do less damage WITH ALL CONDITIONS met than either victorious or mystic in the current build. [eremite's attack] isn't about balling up enemies its about causing the most damage possible in the shortest amount of time. So its all about activation time. Personally, I say this skill is crap unless its combined with [Avatar of Lyssa] since the avatar's bonus damage will make up for the fact that your target might not be in a balled up group. Both [eremite's attack] and [protector's strike] are staples of the Lyssa build. I wouldn't bother with them on any other PVE bar.

MegaVolti

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Aug 2008

Me/Rt

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkside View Post
It's not questionable at all your dps is increased by an insane amount on your primary target and you still do your normal damage vs adjacent foes if any...and with 25-30 energy using [attacker's insight] I've not found it to be an energy hog. I can cast it pretty liberally unless I run into heavy e-denial which doesn't happen all that often. Yes, it's very useful against the primary target.
The problem with the initial build is that it has rarely any attack skills. So [[asuran scan] will boost the auto-attack damage most of the time, which doesn't really do that much.
An attack skill will give +30 armor ignoring damage to all targets hit by the scythe, which clearly beats auto attack + [[asuran scan].
Let's look at 10 seconds here: That means one [[wearying strike], two [[mystic sweep] and 4 normal attacks. With my combo you get one [[wearying strike], two [[mystic sweep], two [[eremite's attack] and two [[victorious sweep]. Even against a single target the bonus damage from attack skills can nearly compete with [[asuran scan].

Oh and Dervish was my main for a while before I switched to Mesmers (they are so much fun ). I probably haven't played as much as others here but I still got a lot of experience with my Dervish and playing with orders and [[patient spirit], I never ran into energy problems. Worst case scenario is that you have to manually help your hero so you get a new [[patient spirit] as soon as it runs out. 4 energy every 3 seconds + 8 energy every 5 seconds (orders) plus the 4 for each normal enchantment (your own and stuff like [[protective spirit] or [[aegis]) is just awesome.

Darkside

Darkside

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Dec 2006

Chantry of Secrets

[Angl]

D/

Quote:
Originally Posted by MegaVolti View Post
Yes, it's very useful against the primary target.
The problem with the initial build is that it has rarely any attack skills. So [[asuran scan] will boost the auto-attack damage most of the time, which doesn't really do that much.
An attack skill will give +30 armor ignoring damage to all targets hit by the scythe, which clearly beats auto attack + [[asuran scan].
Let's look at 10 seconds here: That means one [[wearying strike], two [[mystic sweep] and 4 normal attacks. With my combo you get one [[wearying strike], two [[mystic sweep], two [[eremite's attack] and two [[victorious sweep]. Even against a single target the bonus damage from attack skills can nearly compete with [[asuran scan]. Here's some numbers for you.

14 scythe mastery
Kurzick Title Track rank 7
Asura Title Track rank 10

[Victorious Sweep] critical 60 ar foe [115] [86+29] damage
[Victorious sweep] ctitical 60 ar foe while enchanted with [Aura of holy might] [163] damage

Auto-attack critical 60 ar foe [86] damage
Auto-attack critical 60 ar foe hexed with [Asuran Scan] [150] damage
Auto-attack critical 60 ar foe hexed with [Asuran Scan] while enchanted with [Aura of Holy Might] [234] damage

That's 35 additional points of damage auto attack vs [victorious sweep] with [asuran scan] and a 71 point difference with [Asuran Scan]+[Aura of Holy Might].

I dunno about you but 71 points of damage is pretty substantial. This is just auto-attacking. The skills in the Wounding strike build posted earlier recharge quickly allowing for a two attack spike with deep wound possible every 4 seconds. If you get lucky you could possibly hit a foe for 498 damage and applied a deep wound.

Dommar

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Feb 2009

Geeks Wars

D/A

Why Dark Fury if you play a no-adrenaline build???

Painbringer

Painbringer

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Jun 2006

Minnesota

Black Widows of Death

W/Mo

PVE If i was leaving the dervish skills for warrior then

[thrill of victory] [soldiers strike] [wild blow] atleast you can add points to it.

Also for PVE get a friend to slap [Great Dwarf Weapon] to open a serious can of "A" wooping

Lusciious

Lusciious

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2009

I'm from Singapore but i live in Shanghai ATM

Order of [Thay]

N/

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Bunny View Post
Yes, I know Celestial Beaver wrote a Dervish guide, and while it is indeed quite a good guide, I don't think many newer players are paying it much heed, mainly due to the fact that it's a guide and most 12-year olds think they are too good for guides.

So here's the build. You don't need self-heals or nancy-boy defense measures. You're a frontline melee, kill shit.

[avatar of melandru][asuran scan][aura of holy might][Eternal Aura][attacker's insight][draw conditions][wearying strike][mystic sweep]

Don't take a rez, use a midliner for that. Draw conditions because the avatar's effects should be abused. Go blow stuff up. Feel free to criticize.
usually i have strong heros so whenever i cast form -> [aura of holy might] -> [eternal aura] -> [heart of fury] = enemies dead. i dont get much action so ive decided to switch to spammable DW from [Wounding Strike] or high damage + enchant removal from [reaper's sweep] which worked out great for me. besides i don't like the 25 energy cost just to cast AoM.

i'd swap asuran scan for [lyssa's assault] cause with [attacker's insight] you'd get back 10-12 energy depending on the level of your scythe mastery.

Lusciious

Lusciious

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jan 2009

I'm from Singapore but i live in Shanghai ATM

Order of [Thay]

N/

@darkside, well .. [lyssa's assault] have served me well in PvP with energy management. i've played a tank derv in AB with 300+ HP (yes i know, its a self made build but its good) and yet i didn't die nor did i have any energy problems because of [lyssa's assault].

@vendetta, dervs aren't casters so i don't see why you need 6-8 energy regen.