Buff to Spawning Power

Originally Posted by kazi_saki

Someone should just create a spawning power buff thread and sticky it. That way, all the suggestions can be compiled and people can just add on to it without cluttering. They can place it either in riverside or here.

Originally Posted by kazi_saki

Someone should just create a spawning power buff thread and sticky it. That way, all the suggestions can be compiled and people can just add on to it without cluttering. They can place it either in riverside or here.

Originally Posted by Lourens

There are many ritualist spirits that lose health while doing something [shelter][displacement] etc

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Counterarguments:
How many Warrior builds get no benefit from Strength? Back when the Tactics/Strength balance was different to what it is now, there was a tendency for Strength to only have a handful of points after the weapon attribute, Tactics, and any secondary profession attributes got their share, but it is very hard to make a Warrior build that gains no benefit at all from it. Even if you DO dump Strength entirely, Warriors have another primary attribute, one that requires no point investment at all: +20 armour with an extra +20 versus physical. And lets not forget how many Strength-based skills are seen as vital in today's Warrior builds.

How many Monk builds gain no benefit at all from Divine Favour? You could probably put one together, but I don't think it would be popular. Nor, with the possible exception of the Mesmer/Monk signet spammer, would I expect to see some other profession play to their secondary in order to combine Monk smiting skills with a 'more appropriate' primary attribute in any serious play.

Few Dervish builds fail to gain a benefit from Mysticism. Few Paragon builds fail to gain a benefit from Leadership. Few Assassin builds fail to gain a benefit from Critical Strikes. Those that do can certainly be played as a weaponswap from another class, but in each case, the actual choice of weapon is kinda incidental to each class. And are you really suggesting that Soul Reaping doesn't provide any benefit at all to a character not using Soul Reaping skills?

In short, none of the other professions are at risk of being pushed out of their role due to the situations where their primary attribute doesn't help.

Compare to the Ritualist, where in the current meta, the primary attribute almost NEVER helps. Spawning Power in its current form does nothing to break the paradigm that a spirit that comes under direct attack - or even that simply falls afoul of some AoE - is going to go down in seconds, and with pretty much all of the spirits that take damage on their effect triggering nerfed into oblivion, you don't see SP coming into play there either. In fact, except in the case of spirit spamming for specific (generally solo) quests, spirit use nowadays tends to be restricted to cheap tokens that will trigger conditional benefits of other skills. The popular weapon spells are those that only have a limited number of triggers - Splinter, Vengeful, Remedy - meaning that the weapon has often discharged before the full duration expires in the first place. Heals and Channeling zaps, of course, gain no direct benefit.

In short, while in all your examples the primary attributes still provide a benefit to pretty much any build you'd expect to see using that profession, Spawning Power provides nothing significant to the majority of current Ritualist builds.

The end result? Most people who are stubborn enough to continue playing Ritualists are dumping Spawning Power entirely to focus on Restoration and Channeling. Others use those builds on primary Necromancers and primary Elementalists to reap the rewards of energy-providing primary attributes on a profession whose skills were designed to be usable without them. With Spawning Power doing absolutely nothing, if they're only using one Ritualist attribute they have no incentive not to apart from the loss of the rune (whoop-de-doo), and even if they're using both Channeling and Restoration, running three attributes is not much harder than, say, running Channeling, Restoration and Spawning Power.

So, for the tl;dr version: The reason why Spawning Power needs fixing more than any other primary attribute is not because of the number of individual skills that don't benefit from Spawning Power... it's because it's the only primary attribute which provides no benefit to the majority of complete builds used by its profession. Even Mesmers get at least a token benefit from Fast Casting, but the typical Ritualist in the current state of the game gains nothing from Spawning Power, and conventional wisdom states that pretty much every primary Ritualist would be better off as a Necromancer primary with Soul Reaping. This is why Spawning Power needs to be improved.

Originally Posted by DoomFrost

Would this be a nice general effect?

For each rank of Spawning Power you have, creatures you create (or animate) have 4% more Health, weapon Spells you cast last 2% longer, and ritualist spells and binding rituals you cast heal you and adjacent ally spirits for 4 health.

So at 8 spawning power you and adjacent spirits would get healed for 32, at 12 - 48, and so on.

Originally Posted by Vehemence

How about not buffing spawning power but just create a new useful primary attribute. Maybe energy management attribute like most other classes.

Originally Posted by spirit of defeat

Not a bad idea. But which spirits need healing? mostly the protection spirits. And it won't help them much. unless you start spamming [[Renewing Surge] which doesn't combine with the protection spirit's

Originally Posted by DoomFrost

It's not really supposed to keep a spirit up indefinitely, just enough. Obviously Anet would have to fool around with it to find a balanced number.

From my thoughts when I said "adjacent ally spirits" that means two or more rits could heal the same ally spirit with whatever they had in spawning power. So I really took that into consideration when I was playing around with the number and thought 4 to be the best all around.

Even then though if you had 4 ritts at 15 spawning power, all four of them could heal a spirit for 240 health. And that's just by using one skill. Even 192 at 12 spawning power.

Originally Posted by Vehemence

How about not buffing spawning power but just create a new useful primary attribute. Maybe energy management attribute like most other classes.

Originally Posted by spirit of defeat

Rit's don't have energy probelms. so if SP is related to energy it will cause many nerf's.

Originally Posted by Dr.Jones

Yea but its one of the main reasons people go N/rt instead of Rt/n.

Originally Posted by Dr.Jones

Yea but its one of the main reasons people go N/rt instead of Rt/n.