Your Sabway/Discordway variations...

Don Ico

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Mar 2009

18 Mar 2009 at 03:19 - 1
So most people run sabway/discordway but everyone has their own variations to it. I'm just wondering what are your variations to these powerful builds and what're your reasons or the changs?

infamous16

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Apr 2007

Rt/

18 Mar 2009 at 03:21 - 2
I change up the builds (mainly the ss) depending on what I am going to be facing in a certain zone.

daze

daze

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2008

In my own mind

The Dragon Exchange

E/

18 Mar 2009 at 03:59 - 3
really i only have maybe 3 different versions of D-Way. one for 3 heroes. one for 6 heroes in 99% of areas. then one for 6 heroes with hex heavy areas. (like FoW)


i always run the same caller build when i run discordway. just because it lets me put 12 points in to deadly arts and have 95 energy to mark enemies instantly.
[deadly [email protected]][enduring [email protected]][mark of [email protected]][heart of [email protected]][pain [email protected]][assassins [email protected]][you move like a [email protected]][finish [email protected]] 11+1+2 energy storage, 12 deadly arts, 6 shadow arts



heroes are basically the same and these heroes can effortlessly clear any area in Hard Mode. I find that 6 heroes with discord are a bit overkill and unnecessary so i'll swap out one of the heroes for the SS necro from the sabway build.
----
Minion Master: this hardly ever changes
[build=OAhjUsGqoSxMVVVBoBLCKVJgYMA]
heals with shambling
[build=OANDUqhNTxMVVKgHV3NfEGN6EA]

Protter with Divert: I only bring [[divert hexes] when i do Fow. otherwise i just bring [[discord]
[build=OANCY8zDnuq+S20Bk6xdVmA]

Hex VoR hero (could be more hex heavy, but look at my build) [build=OAVDIstnNutqaOQD0EQE7O7A]

Restore Life: Pretty standard N/Rt healer
[build=OAhjUoGYIPxsqaGbcO5kmDzkLA]

Restore Recovery: partner to the N/Rt healer brings recovery so multiple spirits are in play
[build=OAhjUoGYIPxsqKxjaP5kmDzkLA]

There it is. 6 hero Discordway that is guaranteed to breeze through anything PvE can throw at you. Sabway is very similar except with their very own elites.
[spiteful spirit]
[jagged bones]
[weapon of remedy]

Anime Divine

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2007

W/

18 Mar 2009 at 06:59 - 4
i only use 1 version nowadays but constantly changing couple of skills depending on area. i like daze his necros. but i feel theres not enough splinterweapon since i am melee i love splinterweapon so here goes

discord: hex condtion +spirit
[build=OAhkUsG4BGmUMDiw40kj00ngC4FD]

discord:hex condition +minion
[build=OAhkUsG4BGmUMDbwwk00kjdgC4RF]

discord:keeps conditions off you +splinterweapon
[build=OAhkUoGXYKqUMzRFGzkzwUCoC4FD]

for a 2 man team
death nova
[build=OAhkUoGYIKqUMzRFaAGj00kjC4FD]

pure was spammer
[build=OAhkUoGXYKqUMzRFGzkjxUCoC4FD]

kaolai spammer:P cos this necro just spam it the most
[build=OAhkUoGXYKqUMzRFGzkzwUCoC4FD]


as u can see an overkill in splinterweapon and discord provided with enough healing. now your probably thinking omg wheres the minion master wheres the skill signet of lost souls.where is the SS????

well as u can see they all have shambling horror wich contributes to bleeding condition so they all are lil minion masters
signet of lost soul is an overrated skill dont get why people are using it. sure you get health and energy but id rather have splinter weapon so i can kill faster.

WHAT DO I NEED SS!!! NO YOU DONT!!!!
splinterweapon provide enough damage and they are death before ss can even get 2 triggers.

and if you need hex removals for minor hex en condition removal

[build=OANCY8zEnWLR9gW0MRARCYVF]
for extra hex remove
[build=OANDQspOOa6WiLpmQ9NETiOB]
these are wiki version i dont mind it its just not completely wiki if you get a close look

would like some healthy critic. but if you need to flame it let me tell you i use this setup with the 2 extra hex removal to do most of DOA
most of my vanquish and hm missions.

daze

daze

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2008

In my own mind

The Dragon Exchange

E/

18 Mar 2009 at 07:49 - 5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anime Divine View Post

discord: hex condtion +spirit
[build=OAhkUsG4BGmUMDiw40kj00ngC4FD]

discord:hex condition +minion
[build=OAhkUsG4BGmUMDbwwk00kjdgC4RF]

discord:keeps conditions off you +splinterweapon
[build=OAhkUoGXYKqUMzRFGzkzwUCoC4FD]

for a 2 man team
death nova
[build=OAhkUoGYIKqUMzRFaAGj00kjC4FD]

pure was spammer
[build=OAhkUoGXYKqUMzRFGzkjxUCoC4FD]

kaolai spammer:P cos this necro just spam it the most
[build=OAhkUoGXYKqUMzRFGzkzwUCoC4FD]
not the worst discord team ive seen. Seems like your attribute spread is a bit too thin though. 10 points to channeling on 4 different heroes is a bit of a waste IMO. I mean Jeezus, Splinter weapon only has an 8 second recharge! you can place it on 2 heroes and it will still be excessive, and you will be able to spam it just as much.

i forgot to post my build when i team up with a melee partner. i just swap out using [[splinter weapon] or [[Great dwarf weapon] on him
[deadly [email protected]][enduring [email protected]][mark of [email protected]][heart of [email protected]][great dwarf [email protected]][assassins [email protected]][you move like a [email protected]][finish [email protected]] 11+1+2 energy storage, 12 deadly arts, 6 shadow arts

then i just throw splinter weapon in to the Minion master because he is only spanning 2 attributes otherwise. that way i can spec channeling at 10and not worry about losing potency of the rest of my skills... Splinter weapon is good, but its not godly enough to waste 10 attribute points on 4 different characters.

[[email protected]][signet of lost [email protected]][splinter [email protected]][animate bone [email protected]][death [email protected]][infuse [email protected]][feast for the [email protected]][foul [email protected]] 12+1 death magic 8+1+2 soul reaping 10 channeling


Also, putting minions on 5 heroes is a little wasteful of your time. You may notice that minion spells take 3 seconds to cast each. That is a lot of time. if you have most of your heroes all exploiting their own corpse at the same time then nobody is casting anything useful.

You could really make your team build a lot less redundant and more potent by assigning each hero a specific role instead of making them all a heal/minion/splinter/curse hybrid.

Also the reason my build is more versitle, is because it does not rely on heavy corpse count. For areas where corpses are thin in numbers, you will not have much minions. This is when [signet of lost souls] comes in handy. When you dont have minions popping and activating your soul reaping, you WILL need a bit extra energy management.

I do like the idea of the more [putrid bile] the better, but you realize that with that many copies, you could kick the almost useless [suffering] because with 6 copies of [putrid bile] you will be spamming that hex all day long.


And 3 heroes with [foul feast] means that you will have 3 heroes fighting over conditions while they could be casting more useful stuff.

And im curious about [lively was naomei] does the hero waste 6 seconds to cast it after dropping the ashes? It seems this skill would only work efficiently if micromanaged

I agree that [spiteful spirit] is probably not needed in my build because enemies get spiked to death 2 seconds after it it casted on them. Now that i think about it, ill probably just replace SS with Discord again. then i could make my MM [jagged bones]

Arctica

Arctica

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Sep 2008

Hungary

Ministry of Fate [MoF]

Rt/

18 Mar 2009 at 09:15 - 6
As for me, I don't use a full discord team - basicly because I don't have all the 3 necros unlocked on any of my chars

But anyway, here is what I use:

[build prof=Ne/Ri name="Curse resto" Sou=8+1 Cur=5+1 Dea=12+2 Res=9][Discord][Animate Shambling Horror][Enfeebling Blood][Shadow of Fear][Protective Was Kaolai][Mend Body and Soul][Signet of Lost Souls][Flesh of my Flesh][/build]

[build prof=Ne/Mo name="Sorrow discord" Sou=8+1 Dea=12+2 Hea=5 Pro=9][Discord][Putrid Bile][Animate Bone Minions][Death Nova][Protective Spirit][Aegis][Dwaynas Sorrow][Cure Hex][/build]

[build prof=Ri/Ne name="Life resto" Spa=8+1 Res=12+2 Cur=10][Xinraes Weapon][Suffering][Weapon of Warding][Protective Was Kaolai][Spirit Light][Mend Body and Soul][Life][Flesh of my Flesh][/build]

Might not be as effective as a full discord team, but works quite well in most areas.

Oh, and here is my spirit wrangler rit:

[build prof=Ri/Me name="RitualistK" Spa=8+1 Com=11+1 Cha=11+2 Res=1][Epidemic][Pain][Bloodsong][Anguish][Painful Bond][Summon Spirits][Signet of Ghostly Might][Flesh of my Flesh (PvP)][/build]

Kenzo Skunk

Kenzo Skunk

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2009

18 Mar 2009 at 09:37 - 7
Quote:
Originally Posted by daze View Post

Curser SS necro: This is the SS necro from sabway good hex pressure.
[spiteful [email protected]][signet of lost [email protected]][reckless [email protected]][enfeebling [email protected]][shadow of [email protected]][mark of [email protected]][rip [email protected]][death pact [email protected]] Aren`t [reckless haste] and [shadow of fear] mutually exclusive? Or is there some secret logic behind this setup?

daze

daze

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2008

In my own mind

The Dragon Exchange

E/

18 Mar 2009 at 09:51 - 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenzo Skunk View Post
Aren`t [reckless haste] and [shadow of fear] mutually exclusive? Or is there some secret logic behind this setup? lol, no logic. my bad i though i removed that.
i noticed it on my bars in the game. the end result is enemies attacking 25% slower and missing 50% of the time. I forgot what i put in its place though.
not like it matters what the effect of a hex is in a discordway team. All descriptions should change for all hexes when paired with discords to "Enemy dies"

Luminarus

Luminarus

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Aug 2007

Sydney, Australia

Haze of Light [pure]

R/

18 Mar 2009 at 11:40 - 9
N/Mo instead of N/Rt Healer in Sabway... otherwise the same.

N/Mo buils id: [Word of Healing][Patient Spirit][Dwayna's Kiss][Dwayna's Sorrow][Shield of Absorption][Foul Feast][Cure Hex][Resurrection Chant]

Kenzo Skunk

Kenzo Skunk

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2009

18 Mar 2009 at 11:44 - 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by daze View Post
not like it matters what the effect of a hex is in a discordway team. All descriptions should change for all hexes when paired with discords to "Enemy dies" Exactly - hex them with whatever and watch them explode in no time. I`d normally use [Weaken Armor] with Sab`s setup instead of [Shadow of Fear], but with Discord that doesn`t matter much, since it is armor ignoring anyway..

Anime Divine

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Nov 2007

W/

18 Mar 2009 at 13:14 - 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by daze View Post

Also, putting minions on 5 heroes is a little wasteful of your time. You may notice that minion spells take 3 seconds to cast each. That is a lot of time. if you have most of your heroes all exploiting their own corpse at the same time then nobody is casting anything useful.
I made this so because i observed it heroes dont use it when they are healing and under pressure only when theres like small delay in pressure or after fight. actually only on 2 heroes that would be enough also i havent seen any other replacement for it yet

Quote: You could really make your team build a lot less redundant and more potent by assigning each hero a specific role instead of making them all a heal/minion/splinter/curse hybrid. i made them all hybrid because of splinterweapon and the rt healing skills.
it is actually only 3 splinterweapon i have when i use the hex removal necros
and took some skills i find usefull. instead about creating a whole curse line
death magic build etc.

Quote: Also the reason my build is more versitle, is because it does not rely on heavy corpse count. For areas where corpses are thin in numbers, you will not have much minions. This is when [signet of lost souls] comes in handy. When you dont have minions popping and activating your soul reaping, you WILL need a bit extra energy management. my builds do not rely on corps count when i play only with 3 necros i use the death nova with splinterweapon and the hex/condition so i only have then like 1 shambling horror i find my build versatile cos only to have to spec in soulreaping only. people just value runes to much. like omg u dont have your heroes runes you suck. i have done all hard areas without my heroes runed before i dont see the difference. but now only to spec in soul reaping u can divide your points. like some people only rune there heroe for something specific like this is curses this is deathmagic and that soulreaping :S so you cant change them. if you want to switch for example to blood magic u have to rerune over again. still dont see the usefulnes of [signet of lost souls]
but thats another discussion.

Quote: I do like the idea of the more [putrid bile] the better, but you realize that with that many copies, you could kick the almost useless [suffering] because with 6 copies of [putrid bile] you will be spamming that hex all day long. yeah putrid bile rocks but you do realise it stacks with suffering
so u have like -5 health degen suffering is just a covering hex
mini deathnovas ftw

Quote:
And 3 heroes with [foul feast] means that you will have 3 heroes fighting over conditions while they could be casting more useful stuff. i disagree heroes use it well i dont put it there for energy/health management. i put it there for complete condition free. like if i play a paragon i never see cracked armor from AR


Quote:
And im curious about [lively was naomei] does the hero waste 6 seconds to cast it after dropping the ashes? It seems this skill would only work efficiently if micromanaged btw this was a mistake lol it was to be [pure was li ming]
only use this skill when in condition heavy area. only area i can think of now is frostmaw a dual pure was there is pawning the mandragors but just 1 is good enough

Quote:
I agree that [spiteful spirit] is probably not needed in my build because enemies get spiked to death 2 seconds after it it casted on them. Now that i think about it, ill probably just replace SS with Discord again. then i could make my MM [jagged bones] hey its just me but jagged bones is a waste so flame me i know the advantages but i rather have discord have its place

oh im a war tough i should share my build too

[build=OQASEZJTSFQFKF7gXFzkvldF]

riktw

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jul 2008

netherlands

Mo/E

18 Mar 2009 at 14:35 - 12
meh, i dont have all 3 heroes on some chars, so i use 2 necro's and 1 monk RoJ build thingy.
or 2 RoJ's and a necro/rit healer from sabway.
depents on my mood and area

Daesu

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

18 Mar 2009 at 16:33 - 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by daze
... Nice 6 heroes discord build, daze. But why Signet of Sorrow? Heroes dont spam that often enough and if there was a corpse nearby your MM would have animated it. Heroes also dont always keep Infuse Condition up. If you want to use Mark of Pain, fiends work better with it.

Xhizors

Xhizors

Ascalonian Squire

Join Date: Jan 2009

Europe

Glob of Ectospasm [GoE]

18 Mar 2009 at 16:40 - 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by daze View Post
...
i really like ur teambuild gj mate.

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

18 Mar 2009 at 16:55 - 15
daze why do you use [reckless haste] on your SS? It's pointless on HM because attack speeds are maxed out and defense it will add is hardly worth it when you have so much prot, heal and block. [mark of pain], 20s recharge, zzzz, you cast it and in three seconds your target dies from Discord spike before MoP even does anything good job on wasted skill slot! (I dont like SS with Discord for the same reasons I dont like MoP)

Ever though of using [visions of regret]? Unlike [spiteful spirit] it is AoE hex so one copy goes on each mob in its area of effect, pretty damn good with Discord if you want mobs to kill themselves although I wouldnt bother about neither, if you go Discord, do Discord, and dont bother about any other elites.

Post Edited by Cebe: Do not attempt to bypass the forum's inappropriate language filter.

MasterSasori

MasterSasori

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Dec 2007

USA

[Thay]

R/Mo

18 Mar 2009 at 22:17 - 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anime Divine View Post
I made this so because i observed it heroes dont use it when they are healing and under pressure only when theres like small delay in pressure or after fight. actually only on 2 heroes that would be enough also i havent seen any other replacement for it yet
I'm sure you can think of something. It really is a waste, especially when all the heroes are fighting to reanimate the same corpse. Idiocy...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anime Divine View Post i made them all hybrid because of splinterweapon and the rt healing skills.
it is actually only 3 splinterweapon i have when i use the hex removal necros
and took some skills i find usefull. instead about creating a whole curse line
death magic build etc.
If you simply assign a role to one of the heroes, you can have higher att than all these mediocre splits. It's also easier to keep track of what the hell one hero is doing wrong so you can improve upon it, not to mention you can now micromanage (if you want) if you find something unsatisfactory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anime Divine View Post still dont see the usefulnes of [signet of lost souls]
but thats another discussion.
It's most useful when there are stronger and fewer monsters in the area you're in. Often they can be totally left out but they can be useful if all the monsters don't assplode. Even Necros run out of energy when the battle drags.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Anime Divine View Post
suffering is just a covering hex I use it as a cover hex as well and it does a fairly good job. So well that I don't have to use Asuran Scan and can bring something useful like EBSoH on my Para.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Anime Divine View Post
i disagree heroes use it well i dont put it there for energy/health management. i put it there for complete condition free. like if i play a paragon i never see cracked armor from AR One of the biggest things about PvE hexes and conditions is that 90% of them are pretty darn harmless. You can easily heal through them or endure them. There are particularly dangerous ones like blind and occasionally deep wound and daze, but only one or two FF at the most is necessary. Same goes for hexes.

If hex removal is absolutely necessary, go with [convert hex] and save yourself from using so many slots. You'll have so much energy that the high cost won't matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anime Divine View Post
hey its just me but jagged bones is a waste so flame me i know the advantages but i rather have discord have its place SS is pretty bad in discordway. Jagged bones is good because it spreads more conditions and means you don't have to carry another skill to keep your minions alive. MMs are generally tending their minions anyway.


A few additional comments about your build:


Needs more PwK. Just too good . +Armor, party wide heal against pressure, doesn't need any time to cast when needed. This takes care of condition and hex degen pressure (which is like half of all conditions and hexes in PvE).

Most definitely don't need so many heroes with rez. You can easily drop some and use [death pact signet] instead. So much better in the middle of a battle.

So many splinter weapon copies is unnecessary. Just have two of them with high channel. Quality over quantity.

Another enfeebling blood.

Please turn one of your heroes into a prot one. [aegis] and [protective spirit] is much better. Your heals are excessive and mediocre. The biggest problems will be from giant spikes (like from elementalists) which small heals will not solve. However, if you prot, and dedicate fewer heroes with higher Restoration, you will be better able to respond.

byteme!

byteme!

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

On Earth

W/P

18 Mar 2009 at 23:00 - 17
I thought this thread was supposed to display everyone's "variations"? How or why has it turned into a, "your build is bad, you need to change this, why are you doing that" type of thread AGAIN?

daze

daze

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2008

In my own mind

The Dragon Exchange

E/

19 Mar 2009 at 10:04 - 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daesu View Post
Nice 6 heroes discord build, daze.
tyty

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daesu View Post
But why Signet of Sorrow? Heroes dont spam that often enough and if there was a corpse nearby your MM would have animated it.
The only reason i put it in there is because i couldn't find a better choice of either a Protection Prayers spell or another Soul Reaping spell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daesu View Post
Heroes also dont always keep Infuse Condition up. If you want to use Mark of Pain, fiends work better with it. [[infuse condition] lasts 60 seconds so it stays up long enough. Plus they use it when it counts. [[infuse condition] is not one of those spells where it has to be times within a 2 second window. They up time compared to the cool down time is enough to see that it will be up most of the time. Plus, i always notice my heroes recasting it when it runs out.

[[mark of pain] meh. maybe with Sabway. Or maybe if i changed my main build to something with less hexes.


Quote: Originally Posted by Super Igor View Post daze why do you use [reckless haste] on your SS? It's pointless on HM because attack speeds are maxed out and defense it will add is hardly worth it when you have so much prot, heal and block. Eh, i just kinda half-assed threw in the Sabway SS necro instead of my usual discord curser bar. After using i realized its lack of effectiveness.

Quote: Originally Posted by Super Igor View Post [mark of pain], 20s recharge, zzzz, you cast it and in three seconds your target dies from Discord spike before MoP even does anything good job on wasted skill slot! (I dont like SS with Discord for the same reasons I dont like MoP) i agree, [[mark of pain] is for sabway.. [[barbs] is for discordway... And SS was a bad choice for discordway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Igor View Post
Ever though of using [visions of regret]? Unlike [spiteful spirit] it is AoE hex so one copy goes on each mob in its area of effect, pretty damn good with Discord if you want mobs to kill themselves Ya, i like the idea of VoR. ive updated my above post to reflect that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Igor View Post
although I wouldnt bother about neither, if you go Discord, do Discord, and dont bother about any other elites. 6 discords is kinda unneeded. sure it makes for bigger spikes, but most enemies die after 4 hits of it anyways. IMO it is not needed. Id rather throw in elites like [divert hexes][jagged bones] or even [visions of regret] to add assistance to the team.


Quote: Maybe they improved the AI since the last time I noticed my MM not renewing Infuse Condition during battle.

Anyway with Recovery plus MBaS, Infuse Condition is not that needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by byteme! View Post
I thought this thread was supposed to display everyone's "variations"? How or why has it turned into a, "your build is bad, you need to change this, why are you doing that" type of thread AGAIN?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anime Divine View Post
would like some healthy critic. he asked for it, so if he is really asking for advice/criticism and not just wanting a pat on the back, the advise provided so far could potentially improve his gameplay.

Daesu

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

19 Mar 2009 at 15:57 - 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by daze View Post
The only reason i put it in there is because i couldn't find a better choice of either a Protection Prayers spell or another Soul Reaping spell.
Even so, Signet of Sorrow looks out of place. I would just put 5 points to curse and replace it with enfeebling blood.

Quote:
Plus, i always notice my heroes recasting it when it runs out.
i agree, [[mark of pain] is for sabway.. [[barbs] is for discordway... And SS was a bad choice for discordway. Now you have no MoP or barbs. I like the idea of CoF for interrupts, but you lose out shadow of fear and chaos storm causes scatter. I dont think you need shatter enchantment and rip enchantment together either.

Right now, your 6 necros discordway build is similar to mine except that in place of your domination necro, I use a curse necro with shadow of fear, weaken armor, insiduous parasite, barbs, res, and discord as elite. My main MM carries jagged bones as elite.

Quote: I dont give shit, I'm making a suggestion for daze. VoR works much better with Discord than SS and my necro VoR is better than daze's.

Also, it's not that bad and the recharge isn't long.

Quote:
6 discords is kinda unneeded. sure it makes for bigger spikes, but most enemies die after 4 hits of it anyways. Agree.

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

22 Mar 2009 at 13:08 - 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by daze View Post
Hex VoR hero (could be more hex heavy, but look at my build) [build=OAVDIstnNutqaOQD0EQE7O7A] I dont like your VoR daze, Chaos Storm is a waste 120 damage over 10 seconds is no worth the scatter and trying to deprieve HM mobs of energy with it will take long thanks to faster casting times (CS simply wont hit the foe casting spells often) and is pointless (dead mob > mob without energy).

I suggest you look into [shatter hex] armor ignoring aoe is always good, [power lock] because disabling stuff is useful against things like [searing flames] and [signet of distraction] because it has good synergy with [signet of lost souls] and is good for the same reasons as [power lock] is.

[build prof=me/n box dom=12 soul=13 curse=7][visions of regret][empathy][cry of frustration][power lock][signet of distraction][signet of lost souls][Shadow of Fear][Enfeebling Blood][/build]

Something like that, [rip enchantment] and [shatter hex] in optionals in case you need more hex/ench removal.

Daesu

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

22 Mar 2009 at 15:36 - 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Igor View Post

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

23 Mar 2009 at 16:58 - 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daesu View Post
Bah..I wouldn't bother filling your N/Me skill bar with interrupts. Your target should be dead so quickly that you dont need to disable particular spells.

You also dont even need to be a mesmer. At curse 14, my [[insidious [email protected]] lasts a second longer than your empathy and although it is 3 damage less, mine is a life steal and it doesn't take 2 seconds to cast.

I would also take another hex/condition like barbs or weaken armor than chaos storm.

Just bring discord on that necro over VoR and replace one of your MM's elite with JB. CoF works well enough at 0 dom. Nobody gives shit about IP's life steal you dont die in pve or that it lasts longer.

daze didn't want 6 Discords and [visions of regret] works much better than [spiteful spirit] with Discord.

Also, lol @ JB with Discordway.

Daesu

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

23 Mar 2009 at 18:20 - 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Igor View Post
Nobody gives shit about IP's life steal you dont die in pve or that it lasts longer.

daze didn't want 6 Discords and [visions of regret] works much better than [spiteful spirit] with Discord.

Also, lol @ JB with Discordway. VoR is just meh on a necro primary with a 2s cast and a long recharge. Using discord on the curse necro would give better overall damage than VoR at only level 12. You already have more than enough hexes in the team, so you dont need VoR to setup discord.

At least JB grants your minions a second life and makes your meat wall alot more effective than just low level bone minions.

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

23 Mar 2009 at 21:00 - 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daesu View Post
VoR is just meh on a necro primary with a 2s cast and a long recharge. Using discord on the curse necro would give better overall damage than VoR at only level 12. You already have more than enough hexes in the team, so you dont need VoR to setup discord.
Why bring VoR when you can bring Discord? The damage from VoR is much lower than Discord. Lower damage, longer cast and longer recharge, why do you even bother with VoR?

Quote:
At least JB grants your minions a second life and makes your meat wall alot more effective than just low level bone minions. Why would you want to spec heavily into death magic and not take Discord? o___O

sbb tbh

byteme!

byteme!

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

On Earth

W/P

23 Mar 2009 at 21:42 - 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Igor View Post
Nobody gives shit about IP's life steal you dont die in pve or that it lasts longer.

daze didn't want 6 Discords and [visions of regret] works much better than [spiteful spirit] with Discord.

Also, lol @ JB with Discordway. Against my better judgement I actually agree with Super Igor on this. Must be a blue moon somewhere or someone has a flying pig.

Also Jagged Bones is meh.....

Daesu

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

23 Mar 2009 at 22:39 - 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Igor View Post
I dont give shit, I'm making a suggestion for daze. VoR works much better with Discord than SS and my necro VoR is better than daze's.

Also, it's not that bad and the recharge isn't long.
daze thinks four Discords is more than enough so he brings VoR and Divert. VoR is better than SS with Discord.

Quote:
Why would you want to spec heavily into death magic and not take Discord? o___O

sbb tbh That is because you already have 4 discords in the team. So it is a matter of taking JB versus VoR, I would choose JB, especially for a death magic necro.

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

23 Mar 2009 at 22:46 - 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daesu View Post
Why bring VoR when you can bring Discord? The damage from VoR is much lower than Discord.
That is because you already have 4 discords in the team. So it is a matter of taking JB versus VoR, I would choose JB, especially for a death magic necro. why do you want to lose on utility and damage to take a useless spell? lol

sbb

Daesu

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

23 Mar 2009 at 23:03 - 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Super Igor View Post
daze thinks four Discords is more than enough so he brings VoR and Divert. VoR is better than SS with Discord.

why do you want to lose on utility and damage to take a useless spell? lol

sbb Doesn't matter, VoR is a waste no matter how you put it. If you want a damage skill, you should just use discord.

A main weakness for the discord build is the weak meat wall made up of low level minions which can be easily destroyed through AoE attacks. At least JB plugs up a weakness, replacing a discord with VoR just makes it worse! You already have 4 discord in the team, which is more than enough.

lol at VoR as a damage spell in a discord team when you can easily just use discord. How is a lower damage, longer recharge, longer casting spell better?

byteme!

byteme!

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

On Earth

W/P

23 Mar 2009 at 23:14 - 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daesu View Post
Doesn't matter, VoR is a waste no matter how you put it. If you want a damage skill, you should just use discord.

A main weakness for the discord build is the weak meat wall made up of low level minions which can be easily destroyed through AoE attacks. At least JB plugs up a weakness, replacing a discord with VoR just makes it worse! You already have 4 discord in the team, which is more than enough.

lol at VoR as a damage spell in a discord team when you can easily just use discord. How is a lower damage, longer recharge, longer casting spell better? Did you forget or are you deliberately leaving out the fact VoR has an AoE effect?

Daesu

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

23 Mar 2009 at 23:24 - 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by byteme! View Post
Did you forget or are you deliberately leaving out the fact VoR has an AoE effect? The AoE effect is only adjacent (smallest shoulder-to-shoulder) range and is not guaranteed that heroes would only target it when adjacent monsters are around which the dumb AI frequently dont care.

Besides, with the longer cast and longer recharge, its damage at level 12, is no where near what discord can dish out in the same amount of time.

Replacing Discord with VoR in a discord team, who has already enough hexes, is just lol.

byteme!

byteme!

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

On Earth

W/P

24 Mar 2009 at 00:42 - 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daesu View Post
The AoE effect is only adjacent (smallest shoulder-to-shoulder) range and is not guaranteed that heroes would only target it when adjacent monsters are around which the dumb AI frequently dont care.

Besides, with the longer cast and longer recharge, its damage at level 12, is no where near what discord can dish out in the same amount of time.

Replacing Discord with VoR in a discord team, who has already enough hexes, is just lol. Well I can sit here and write up an essay but "you can't teach old dogs new tricks" so I'll just move right on along and let you and Igor finish this thread off. You 2 are like bum buddies in this forum, always trying to outdo each other.

Daesu

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

24 Mar 2009 at 01:08 - 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by byteme! View Post
Well I can sit here and write up an essay but "you can't teach old dogs new tricks" so I'll just move right on along and let you and Igor finish this thread off. You 2 are like bum buddies in this forum, always trying to outdo each other. I can sit here and argue that Discord at level 14 death magic can dish out more damage than VoR at level 12. But I have thought this would be obvious.

[email protected] is 75 damage per cast so it depends on how spammy the target is. 20s recharge, 2s cast and lasts for only 10s.

[email protected] is 105 damage per cast. 2s recharge, 1s cast, and is one of the most spammable skills in the game.

You do the math. The only time where I see that VoR may perform better is lots of monsters adjacent, stepping on one another, and skill spamming themselves to death within 10s.

If you want damage in a discord team, then discord should be your skill of choice. Having a stronger minion wall is not damage and is a different issue. But if you dont care about that, you can still bring 5 discord necros and 1 divert hexes, no big deal.

byteme!

byteme!

Forge Runner

Join Date: Jan 2006

On Earth

W/P

24 Mar 2009 at 01:35 - 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daesu View Post
lots of stuff... Hey I was referring to the original argument up above of how VoR is better then SS in said setup. Don't drag me into this. I don't care about your math and all the other stuff. It has nothing to do with what I was replying to nor do I even care. Take it up with Igor.

I brought up VoR's AoE because I thought it'd be fair to bring up some pros because all you had were cons about the skill. That is all!

/end

Daesu

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

24 Mar 2009 at 01:45 - 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by byteme! View Post
I brought up VoR's AoE because I thought it'd be fair to bring up some pros because all you had were cons about the skill. That is all! It is not whether VoR is a good skill or not, you have to know when best to use it. VoR is better suited for a mesmer hero than replacing Discord in a discord team that already has enough hexes and conditions lined up. Likewise, Discord is a good skill but there are just some situations where it is not the best choice either.

daze

daze

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Aug 2008

In my own mind

The Dragon Exchange

E/

25 Mar 2009 at 03:03 - 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by byteme! View Post
You 2 are like bum buddies in this forum, always trying to outdo each other. I lol'ed

The bottom line is Discordway is a team build that is versatile enough to play with and mold to your style or preference. I could care less what Daseu prefers.. Actually, on second thought i probably could not care any less. It works and it works well. Its fun for a bit extra AoE damage. Yes it works for Adjacent enemies, luckily that is about the same distance that casters like to stand from each other.

I look at it this way, if i can clear FoW in Hard Mode with no cons in under 2 hours with the setup, then Daseu can inflate his "knowledge" of what is good and what is bad all he wants. Its still just hot air.

Bring VoR to urgoz one of these days then say that it is not beneficial to a discord team. But Urgoz is kind of a different monster just because I would never run 9 heroes with discord in it. 6 maybe, but 4-5 is optimal.

Daesu

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

25 Mar 2009 at 03:25 - 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by daze View Post
... I actually I couldn't care less whether you bother to listen to me either, since I dont expect you come up with any good arguments besides your personal preference when it comes to build choices.

brakner

brakner

Academy Page

Join Date: Feb 2008

Vancouver, B.C.

Glade Runners [GR]

R/P

25 Mar 2009 at 18:43 - 37
This is the one I started using on my Nec.

Two question for you guys, think its worth changing the Curse/MM with minions from Curse to Channeling for Splinter, since I am mostly a Curse Necro myself?

Is it worth me taking Necrosis as my ghetto discord to help out the damage on single target? ( level 8 so 84 damage )

[Spiteful Spirit][Mark of Pain][Enfeebling Blood][Barbs][Weaken Armor][Necrosis][ Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support ][Aegis]

This is a new Necro that only has one elite, so I am now working on skills and finishing the various campaigns for PvE skills also.



[build prof=N/Rt death=10+1+1 sou=8+1 res=12][Discord][Animate Shambling Horror][Weapon of Warding][Protective Was Kaolai][Spirit Light][Mend Body and Soul][Life][Flesh of My Flesh][/build]

[build prof=N/Mo death=12+1+1 sou=8+1 curse=8+1 heal=6][Discord][Animate Shambling Horror][Enfeebling Blood][Reckless Haste][infuse Condition][Foul Feast][Dwayna's Sorrow][Cure Hex][/build] remove [Enfeebling Blood][Reckless Haste] to [Putrid Bile][Splinter Weapon]

[build prof=N/Mo death=12+1+1 soul=8+1 prot=9 heal=5][Discord][Putrid Bile][Animate Bone Minions][death nova][Protective Spirit][Aegis][Shield of Absorption][Cure Hex][/build]

Daesu

Daesu

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Oct 2008

25 Mar 2009 at 19:31 - 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by brakner View Post
This is the one I started using on my Nec.

Two question for you guys, think its worth changing the Curse/MM with minions from Curse to Channeling for Splinter, since I am mostly a Curse Necro myself?

Is it worth me taking Necrosis as my ghetto discord to help out the damage on single target? ( level 8 so 84 damage )

[Spiteful Spirit][Mark of Pain][Enfeebling Blood][Barbs][Weaken Armor][Necrosis][ Ebon Vanguard Assassin Support ][Aegis]

[build prof=N/Rt death=10+1+1 sou=8+1 res=12][Discord][Animate Shambling Horror][Weapon of Warding][Protective Was Kaolai][Spirit Light][Mend Body and Soul][Life][Flesh of My Flesh][/build]

[build prof=N/Mo death=12+1+1 sou=8+1 curse=8+1 heal=6][Discord][Animate Shambling Horror][Enfeebling Blood][Reckless Haste][infuse Condition][Foul Feast][Dwayna's Sorrow][Cure Hex][/build] remove [Enfeebling Blood][Reckless Haste] to [Putrid Bile][Splinter Weapon]

[build prof=N/Mo death=12+1+1 soul=8+1 prot=9 heal=5][Discord][Putrid Bile][Animate Bone Minions][death nova][Protective Spirit][Aegis][Shield of Absorption][Cure Hex][/build] Even though animate shambling has a long 25s recharge, I dont like healers to carry it and perform the 3s cast whenever a corpse becomes available, instead of healing.

I wouldn't bother with Infuse Condition, Recovery is more useful. Also your curse necro would probably have fewer minions, if any, than your main MM.

Keep enfeebling blood, and you dont really need Splinter if you bring all casters.

Xenomortis

Xenomortis

Tea Powered

Join Date: May 2008

UK

N/

25 Mar 2009 at 20:36 - 39
Hmm... havn't actually looked at my builds properly in a while.

For Sabway, as my main is a necro and only my necro has gone to the efforts of completing this setup:

[Xenomortis SS bar;OANDY8x/Q5BCN7B2BlB3gVVWCA] - my bar

Livia
[N/Rt Healer;OAhiYwh8YtrqTOpJ1ecOMvYA]

Master of Whispers
[MB;OANEUstt82UFOqLV0AeoqWPQjA]

As my char is a necro, the third slot is open to whatever hero I think best (Dunkoro or Koss usually). If I were to run sabway on a different char, I'd bring Olias with my SS setup with Necrosis replaced for something else (probably a res).


Discord - again, only for my necro main:

Me:
[Discord primer;OAdTY2j6VaBymMmcXkNwOwSYPAA]

Livia
[Discord + Rt heal;OAhkUwG4RFmTMrq+Jo2TOp548iB]

Whispers
[Discord + MB + Prot;OANDUspPOxsqwRFNgHqHzEZC]
or, if minions aren't a good idea:
[Discord + Prot;OANEUrpd86EzqqrkN90veMTQjA]

Olias
[Discord + Curses + Heal;OAhkUsG6BGaTMTaO5CE2B2QV9iB]
or
[Discord + Curses + Minion;OAhkUwG6BGKUMjC4RVggdAbQV1FD] - looking at that, that's a terrible minion choice and fairly pointless. I seldom run it anyway.


Because I'm bored, I'm going to critique my own builds:

Human SS build:
Reckless Haste isn't optimal, as it gives only limited benefit in HM, but is still a solid choice.
It's an SS bar and therefore below par, but meh.

MB:
Shambling Horror is hardly a good choice, it's effect is replicated enough with Jagged Bones.
Consider replacing the prot with Dwayna's Sorrow

N/Rt
Strong build, Xinrae's is comparable to WoR.
Consider Death Pact Signet over FomF.


Discord:

Human:
Suffering is, well a weak choice. I can't think of a strong one off the top of my head, but Shadow of Fear might be stronger and cheaper for an AoE hex.
Mark of Pain may be considered a weak option here (despite its power). It is difficult to make full use of this hex in a Discord setup.

Healer:
Solid build, but might benefit from a weapon spell (warding or vengeful). Weaken Armour seems an odd choice and will at most, serve to fulfill the condition for Discord, for which it is redundant.

MB:
Again, Shambling horror is weak, but this time may serve to lengthen the life of your minion wall should it be destroyed before its purpose is served.
Consider Dwayna's Sorrow instead of prots, although I do like prots.

Curses:
The heal options feel like needless filler, but may work. Suffering again, is wasteful. Defile Flesh shouldn't really be needed but may help on some very persistent monk bosses. Consider skills such as Barbs and Mark of Pain on this hero.
The minion option is well... odd. Shambling Horror is a bad choice for such a thing.



I now feel really odd.

Super Igor

Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008

why should you kno? Oo

A/W

26 Mar 2009 at 12:58 - 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daesu View Post
Even though animate shambling has a long 25s recharge, I dont like healers to carry it and perform the 3s cast whenever a corpse becomes available, instead of healing.

I wouldn't bother with Infuse Condition, Recovery is more useful. Also your curse necro would probably have fewer minions, if any, than your main MM.

Keep enfeebling blood, and you dont really need Splinter if you bring all casters. Shamblings aren't effective for you because you can't kill fast enough due to a bad build, ignorance or lack of skill...or all of that at once. You saying that Shamblings have 3 sec. cast evidences that, you should be running bloodstained on Shambling MM's to save time and prevent your Bone Minion MM stealing minions. sbb

Shambling are extremely effective for me because they make exploiting faster and more efficient.
One MM with Bone Minions simply won't have enough energy to cope with spamming 15 energy spell every 5 secs when that many corpses are coming in and won't exploit every single corpse before battle ends either. That will slow you down greatly. But you won't listen and start arguing. But I understand why, you dont know how a good Discordway performs because you never played it and are too ignorant to listen to better players!