A Note on Microtransactions

We may have had a good illustration of that a few minutes/hours ago on this board.

So what do you say JR, my points are moot?

I haven't seen a single good reason why microtransactions for non-content are bad.

The only bad reasons I've seen, have been some variation of "I want everything for free" or "GW2 is going to be completely micro transaction based in order to compete with X game".

The first one is greedy, the second one is unfounded, and both are moronic. Either buy your little trinkets if you choose to, or shut up and go away.

I'm sorry JR but I think you are completely wrong on this...well at least I disagree with your opinion. Its weird too because I've agreed with you on 90% of everything else. Even Fril has joined the dark side geez (well mostly). I'll post in the update thread.

Please don't say Guild Wars is Free, Guild Wars is NOT FREE, I paid for it twice :P, two complete accounts, plus many character slots, why I pay for those two complete accounts, bonus mission packs and character slots? because its what guild wars is, you buy it, you keep it and can play on the "free of charge server" forever, whenever you want to. With micro transaction you can't do that anymore, and Arena Net just violated their trust we gave them, you don't get to use the server for free anymore, you've got to pay for it now with the storage, and with the make over thing, you buy something you can use for 5 times, the next time you wish to use that service after your 5 tokens are used up, you've got to pay for it again, and again, and again, for what the developer only did once. *edit: what is worse, all these "big April Update" could have easily been made into expansion packs and marked as Already Purchased in your online store, to keep and use whenever we want, but Arena Net choose not to because they prefer to get pay for again and again and again and again more then they want to keep to their original way of selling expansion packs.

Oh, and please don't give me bullshit that Arena Net have to hire someone to do the hair and name change every time someone requested a change, cos i'll never believe it.

That is why I don't support them going the micro-transaction way, won't, never, ever :P

I don't want to shatter your hopes but: 1) I didn't do a U-turn on Anet yet; 2) I was mainly talking about CR/M in this post, which is only part of what GW is.

We're talking shades of grey here, nuanced opinions, not a "with us or against us" stance. I may be buying future products, but not all of them, and partly due to the impression I get following this "update"/product.

If you only bought the games you could still play for FREE on ANET's servers without ever purchasing something else from ANET. If you bought anything it was of your own free will not because you had to have it to play the game.

I don't see a problem with the new items nor do I understand a fuss about it. First off all most people who started a thread 'please gimme a stylist' had many responses that they would be willing to pay.

Second I don't understand where JR is saying buying mini expansions is against their model, it is exactly what I would love. Buy stuff you want, don't buy stuff you don't want. This isn't against their model at all, this is exactly their model but on a smaller scale (instead of 1 box, it is 4 times a small box together the price of 1 box).

I don't understand what point you are trying to make Risky Rangers, but yes it was out of my own free will and my love for how beautiful the game looks that I want to give my money to them, then, in the form of buying EXPANSION PACKS, not micro-transaction.

valence
Many people also stated that it would be ridiculous to charge real money for makeover and re-naming of characters, go read it, I remember what my responses was.

I'll quote Valence on this.

"Second I don't understand where JR is saying buying mini expansions is against their model, it is exactly what I would love. Buy stuff you want, don't buy stuff you don't want. This isn't against their model at all, this is exactly their model but on a smaller scale (instead of 1 box, it is 4 times a small box together the price of 1 box)."

Fair enough. At least you are somewhat more seeing what I was trying to say before though. Its just amazing that in the boycott thread I often listed examples of what ANet could possibly sell in the future (such as hair stylist etc) and many people thought I was nuts and said they wouldn't support that. That was before we knew that they were actually going to be selling this stuff. Now many of these same people are posting in threads supporting the idea. Its a sad state of affairs this community if you ask me Fril.

i pretty much agree with the Op. If u want to buy name changes , other stuff fine by me.

but when anet adds small additions to the game forcing storage to become an issue, then charging u for the fix then i have a problem.. Granted anet gave us a free pane if u can get logged in and a grind pack for each character. But i'd expect something for free since when we bought EoTN we didn't get anything extra such as a storage pane or even an extra charater slot.

I'll quote myself on this,

You do not need those things to play the game. Those are vanity items. Your original purchases are all you need to play, all else is for epeen. Show me otherwise.

I HATE them with all the might I can have while hating bytes and pixels (It not really much, but it's relatively the highest hate I generate outside real life).

I came to GW for three reasons:
- The game mechanics.
- The game setting.
- The "Pay once" policy.

And I'm not purchasing anything if it is not pay once.
I bought the game because I had to pay just once for it.
I got the collector editions because I had to pay just once for it.
I got the unlock packs because they unlocked everything forever, thus having to pay them just once.
I got character slots because I pay for them once.
I got the storage upgrades because I just have to pay for them once.
I got the 2005 and 2008 account updates because paying once is all that is needed to get them.
Same goes for the BMP.
I even got the all Bonus Music upgrades!
Of course I also got them because I liked and wanted them, but without them being 'pay once' I would NEVER consider getting them. EVER.

Most of those are vanities or 'luxuries'. Not really adding content, just some nice extras. But I just had to pay once for them. Just once.

So, unless they make 'pay once' versions of those features that are now 'micropaid', I'm not even lying and eye on them.

So this the first and only time I'm actually disappointed with ANet. Even Xunlai agents works by the 'pay once' policy. You don't have to pay every time you open the Xunlai chest. You pay for it once, even in-game.

PAY ONCE.

it has nothing to do with weather its a vanity item or not RR, you don't feel what I feel, guild wars should not be like this.

you should try Requiem Bloodymare beautiful too, aside from not having a secondary profession lol :P~

I just try and be realistic.I realize that as much as we like things to be the same as they were, circumstances sometimes change things. I am sure ANET had no idea the world economy would crash and burn when they released their game 4 years ago. There is an evolution happening with MMO's where micro-transactions are much more prevalent today than they were in years past. I can go along with them as long as it doesn't affect my ability to play the game without them.

Realistic? Ok. Let's look at a REAL site: Megaupload.

You can pay 9.99 for a month of premium service, but you can also PAY ONCE 199.99 for a 'for-life' service.

It's way much more than the monthly fee? Yes. But you pay it just once. Fire and forget.

I don't care if some people see character customization as non-important.

The fact is, GW is an RPG. Some people like the RP factor to it. Customization does indeed have an impact on actual gameplay. A game isn't JUST mechanics.


IT SHOULD NOT COST!

Who's "we"? Some of us were not naive enough to think things would be peachy clean forever.

"Got to"? "Got to"? ... No.

Oh tell us; what should Guild Wars be like? Shed your almighty wisdom for us. Your feeling are 100% fact... clearly.

NO! YOU'RE RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOING WRONG! ANET MUUUUST GIVE US EVERYYYYYYYTHING FOR FREEEEEEEEEEEEE!

Yeah but seriously, you are bang on the mark with that comment.

"We" is all those that strongly believed that GW would go 'pay once' forever, as they always said.

Now some people will fear this would repeat in GW2. No longer being a 'pay once' game, but a micropaid one too.

Do you often fall for these kind of rosy promises, and believe they will last forever? Advertising, advertising... it bends the truth no matter what way you look at it.

The point of this post is critism, possibly costructive one of the seemingly switching GW business model in favour of f2p mmo system, where there is more and more additional content which is purchasable. I'd like to point out everyone (=each gw player) has essentially PAID for the game, and each transaction is bound to a particular campaign so it unlocks additional content. Difference between this and microtransactions is that You pay for something that should be free once you have paid for your campaign if it's improvement to that campaign or core game content. Nothing more wrong - not only you have paid for campaign, but now they want your money to change such pesky thing as your appearance! Come on, it has gone too far, don't you see that?

I don't mind people buying unlock sets. Personally I unlock everything on my own as it's more fun and certainly brings some explore-achieve factor to my roleplay.

I don't mind people paying for additional character slots or storage slots (although, price might be 'a bit over the top').

I don't mind the fact that Bonus Mission Pack is paid content, because it offers no content that gives advantage to someone over me, and I believe development of this set of missions took way more resources than creating Sorrows Furnance. I'm okay that I have to pay for it and that it's promotional content, even if I'd rather it was free or a reward to each player possessing every campaign along with EOTN.

But, 24th April update brought mixed feelings to the atmosphere. If You (yes, all, if not most of you) won't boycott this aggressive Anet politics towards us, End-Users of their game, we will see more 'free' updates ... for the chosen. Some time ago NCSoft denied introducing system of NC Coin to Guild Wars as it would harm the game itself and doesn't fit to it's business model. Now, you want to tell me, Anet, that the microtransactions in this update aren't essentially the same thing ? People, do you think it's normal to pay even a slightest cent for changing appearance of your character given the fact that it gives you an access to face/hair/skin modifications unavaible unless you pay for them?

I can understand paid option to change your name or appearance, or even sex ... but I'm not going to stay idly by if I'm told to PAY for something which should be essentially free - and this includes already mentioned bonus hair and face sets.

Anet, if you had balls (sorry for this vague expression), you would've given every current Guild Wars player one kit for every character created on account and allowed us to benefit from extra appearance options upon creation of new character without being forced to pay for it.

Your pricing on apperance and name change kits suggest you want to get money from vocal minority that shouted for appearance change for some time. It's okay with me. Just don't put me in the same boat as them simply because you RESTRICT the content which should be for free as I've already paid for every campaign and EOTN. I have invested over 3500 hours to this game and believe me, your 'new business model' is a disgrace to your loyal players that thought you will never go THAT far - it's simply against your principles which shaped the game since 2005. Now I see Guild Wars is no longer the game I've paid for and it's no longer run by the company I've trusted. I want my money or honour back. First one would be simpler, second one would require you too think deeply about what you have done and go few step backs, in your roots, Anet.

You want my money? That's fine! But I'm not going to pay for what you are offering! I'm not playing a pesky f2p game where I don't have to pay a cent to play, I play a prestigious b2p game! Try to tell guys over Blizzard to introduce microtransactions to Diablo franchise and they will laugh from you! You know why? Because they care about their customers and most of all - their reputation. Good reputation conflicts with changing status quo of the game, causing players to doubt if it's still the same game they have paid for over 3 years ago. Shame on you.

/Rant off

If any of you have civic courage to shout it aloud, do it! It's your game you have paid for, it's your right as customer to feel violated!

What happens when 2 months later the goes under? I am sure that money is never coming back.

I feel the same as some of the other posters. Is this an issue that needs to be thrown out of proportion because Anet has decided to go the way of a lot of other games and piecemeal out certain features by having to fork out $$$$? Probably not.

At the same time, I do feel it is a bit deceptive. I don't know about any of you, but if I'm a new player looking to purchase a game that claims quite boldly that you pay a single fee and you get access to the game without having to purchase anything else... only to login and indeed see an entire menu filled with optional things to purchase... well it all seems a bit misleading to me. Like trying to hook a consumer and then spring all these extra costs on them. It would make me suspicious as I wonder (since I've never played the game) what I'm going to have to pay further down the line.

I really don't see what all the fuss is about.
Anet gives us a Makeover feature wanted by the community for a long time running,(many of the games I've played in the past never even offered the option!!!) added storage space, HOM update. Everything they have released up until this point has been adequate for a pay once game release. They've even gone out of their way so that players can obtain added space through ingame means, and we all moan. The current offerings released yesterday are all bonus, and yeah if you want it, pay for it. The Makeover thing falls under, appearance, it's not hindering gameplay. Storage up until this point I think has also been adequate. Seriously what's the point of hording useless items that you'll never sell or even use on a daily, weekly basis. This update is just the cherry on top, mind you it came into effect way to late regarding Guild Wars life line.

If Anet can follow the model they've been building up thus far and delivery us with GW2 pay once, release quality/adequate content and have added esthetics at a cost, so be it. You really can't blame them for going this route, as other parties are probably involved, not only that but I'm pretty sure they know there is a big market for features added as of late relating to added features at a price through the ingame store.

There are many MMO developers/publishers that are more "greedy" than Anet, subscription models, microtran games asking players to pay for double experiece scrolls, pve-easy items(con set for example), server changes, vanity items(cosmetic wear, glasses, masks, mini pets, etc.) and content updates(sorrow furnace complexity) with cash. GW offered a very loose leash on these things and a f2p player can suffer no more than 10% disadvantage on game progress (PVP unlocks) and suffer no penalty with the full content of the game. But then again, if GW goes that way, community will die out really quickly.

The best feature of this release is the stylist, now player can customize their char with the choices of all 3 chapters, now that's a marketable concept, useful, unique and convenient(just like pvp unlocks).

The worst feature of this release is the storage panes, considering full chapters cost these days, most players really can't relate to the cost, if it would make more sense if it is 10 bucks for the whole 4 panes, I don't know if this will make more money, but I am sure that more players would be motivated to get them.

I think Anet needs to do a little more thinking on these concepts, it will definitely help with motivating the buying power and justifying the costs. If you remember the first time factions came out, players dicussed if they should merge their chapter serial codes and lose 2 character slot (6 on 1 account instead of 8 over 2 accounts), it is the same idea.

O.K.A.Y.

Imagine it's anno domini 2011 and you have just bought Guild Wars 2. After successful account creation, you go to lovely character creation screen. In top-right corner there is a small box advertising 'character appearance' kit in PlayNC Shop. You can't be bothered as (theoretically) Guild Wars franchise is pay-once game so you choose your profession, gender and go to next screen with detailed appearance. Now, you notice that your character has only 12 face sets, 14 different skin colours, 13 different hair styles and 10 different hair colours. Well, you can't be arsed, you pick your favourite combo and press okay until you land in a newbie outpost. You follow the main road to NPC with big '!' over his head and read your introduction quest. Next to you is standing another character of the same class and profession as you, but with some strange yet cool hair style and very interesting face set. Out of curiosity you ask him how has he got such cool look ... he says he paid 10 American Dollars for appearance kit. Now, you start scratching your head and remember that you have paid like 44,99$ for the basic game already and that it was advertised as buy to play (b2p) game.

How do you feel? Because I feel like a customer who is being cheated on by a greedy company which fails to see a difference between pay to play (subscription-based) game, b2p (buy-to-play) game and f2p (free-to-play) game with item shop and game-breaking paid content. So basically out of pure greed they are mixing f2p model with b2p model, yet making fools of you, all current and future customers that it's a b2p game. It's not. Diablo was b2p game. Diablo II was b2p game. Guild Wars IS not a b2p game. It's essentially b2p game with item shop and SHOULD be advertised like that.

Actually I think you are making a lot of sense.

Okay, did you even comprehend or read my post. Everything Anet has provided thus far seems adequate.

If for instance Anet gave us the same amount of appearance options as they do currently but instead all those that are offered are horrendous compared to the PAY to USE ones then I'd have a problem. If Anet offered us a very limited choice of appearance settings compared to the PAY to PAY ones then I'd have a problem.

Also remember now we are talking about APPEARANCE/LOOKS has no direct relation to the quality of gameplay offered within the game. Cherry's on top, you've already slurped the cream.

Regarding your models comparisons, it's starting to cross the line between B2P, and P2P, again everything offered thus far can still be argued for still being a B2P game. What was released yesterday doesn't really have a tremendous effect/hindrance on gameplay that was already released using the B2P model. Added features you are going to pay up the arse yet have no real benefit overall.

Get over yourself and face reality; Anet is a company, they HAVE to make money. It's not malicious or anything.

The Stylist pack added does not add any new faces or hair, so what makes you so sure that a GW2 version would?

So it's not a b2p game, but essentially is a b2p game?

I'm personally not too surprised that ArenaNet has started charging players for extra features. Guild Wars isn't going to make it in the long term unless they can start charging fans for bonus features.

Nevertheless, charging money for extra storage tabs seems kind of lousy since it's not like any gamer want LESS storage. I know of friends that bought all four tabs within minutes after they went on sale, so there's serious money to be made off of it. I am probably going to break down myself, if only to get rid of the annoying visual reminder with the grayed-out storage tabs.

In some ways, I almost wish that they had gone all out with the micropayment model. They already have so many unlocks in the store. If ArenaNet had offered the Large Equipment Packs in the online store for $5 per bag, then I would have just given them the money already. I can't see myself grinding through quests and missions for months just to earn myself an "uber" equipment pack.

Stricltly theoretical as we don't know how GW2 will be presented to us.

The problem with AmbientMelody's post is that it is an exaggeration over what Anet has done in this case. If a person could pay more money to get a significantly cooler look, I would be annoyed. All that happens in this case is a person can re-do their look. Yes, he can combine looks across campaigns, but I defy anyone to create a noticably "cooler" look with that.

Bottom line is that Anet is approaching an area that make a lot of us feel uncomfortable. We don't want real life $'s to give players advantages in either normal gameplay or even the "vanity" wars.

However, I have to admit upon looking at how everything was implemented, they made the right calls.

For example:

The vanity options (name/appearance changes) don't allow a player to look cooler. It's basically a redo button. I'll never use any of them, but I think it's fine others do.

The pet unlocks aren't game-breaking. Actually, I think the whole thing is kind of pointless and a bit of a misguided programming effort, but to each his own.

Consider Storage. Every single person got some totally free storage (bonus pane), some cheap storage with an in-game cost (2.5K for 5 slot equip pack), a way to get more storage as a quest reward (Z Coins for bigger equip packs) and a way to get insta-extra storage (10 bucks a pane). Whether you want to pay real money, pay in-game gold, get something free or "grind" for it, the options are there. I really don't know how that could have done it much better and still given themselves a revenue stream.

If you exaggerate what the have done into something else, sure, that will sound bad. If you look at what they have actually done, it's really quite fine.

They're walking a fine line, but they've stayed on the right side of it so far.

He means it is not b2p all content, it is b2p+micropay

This would be my concern. I always thought if they did a stylist like people have been asking, it would be a big in-game gold sink. It's a shame, because I really would like to change some appearances, but the real monetary cost is ridiculous. I can't even do unpleasant grind for it (unless you count my job as grind, ha!).

I can't help but wonder if they would be asking real money for this stylist thing if it were done earlier.

What if it cost some IRL dough to change your secondary profession? I mean, you don't NEED to change your secondary, you can just make another character (don't have enough slots? you can always buy another).

The fact that only if you pay you can mix appearances of all chapters is enough of a reason to make fuss about. I made an exaggeration to show the obvious state of things if the current Anet politics are going to continue in this direction. It's your game so it's up to you to decide if you agree or not.

The hair stylist doesnt give an in-game advantage. But I suppose if you REALLY want to view it that way, everything can be nudged into the realm of "in-game advantage". For example, you look better so PUGs find your character more appealing, so you find parties better, there you have it! An in-game advantage!

At least I see some attempt to not let in-game advantage be buyable through their store.

Actually they should let many of grind advantages be buyable so that those who dont have that much time to grind because they have a full time job, since they are disadvantaged because of their lifestyle, be able to catch up.

Lol yes, I'm sure they're losing money because they have to pay real world hair stylists and plastic surgeons to copy, paste and change the character create code that was already on the CD that we bought.

Let hope we don't see a move towards level 3x faster items and rare weapons and armour you can buy only from the shop like in the Korean games microtransactions come from. Mmmm nothing like buying in game stuff with real world money to stay competitive.

Oh yeah and the cash shop system is leech friendly in itself, why am I paying for carp so little kidz can come and play for free on the server and trash it up.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

I'm hoping for an official word on this soon.

But that's the thing of it! Games arent just about standing a chance in combat and getting good groups. They kind of have to be made like a good book or movie. You wan't to get into the story and get into your character. How much you love your character has an effect on how much you want to continue playing the game.

Not all players see it this way, I agree. But I do know there is a lot who love the RP side.

I feel the same way. They should just sell the damn equipment packs already!

At 70 copper coins per day, I need to play for 3.5 months just to get a 20-slot pack! 3.5 months is too much of a grind of my time.

A long long time ago, people buy games like load runner but never expected content or game update for the next 5 years. I think the micro payments of, pay if you need it, dont pay if you dont, are fine. At least they are not requiring everyone to pay. And we have been getting alot more free game updates and server time, compared to load runner, I can tell you that right now.