/roll, another liberty taken away from the player

The valid point is he wasn't doing that, but now can't use the emote for what he had been doing to have fun with it.

I'm curious: how many of you that frequent HB have seen the /roll emote while waiting for a match? Not while IN a match, not before the match starts, but while waiting there, after hitting the "Enter Mission" button?

The OP's original point was that the people that don't abuse it are being punished along with those that do abuse it, which is unfair to those that are innocent.

The only real solution is to remove the reason why people /roll and /resign.

Now, I'm not advocating removing the title. I'm saying we need to remove the speed that /roll and /resign gives.

If you quit, disconnect, or /resign in the first 4 minutes of a match, you gain 5 PvP dishonourable points.

Also, improve rewards for those who have to wait longer for a ranked match. If you're over 1000 rank, you gain double commander points. If you're in the top 1000, you gain triple. Top 250 players get 4 points per win.

The best way to gain points should be to pay and win. The system is broken, which is why people /resign, so the real problem needs to be fixed.

this thread is retarded, however anet is even more retarded for believing removing the roll emote would have any effect whatsoever on title farmers

Wrong. The best way to eliminate the problem is remove the reason people abuse...or better yet not introduce reasons for people to abuse to begin with. Removing /roll solves nothing (is there an echo in here?). Removing roll is naive at best and stupid at worst.

lol. If the other guy wants to play, then he doesn't roll. Either you leave, or you have to play. Duuuuuh. It takes 2 to roll. No one's fun is getting spoiled.

No one rolls in GvG...
This problem existed for all of 24 hours. It wasn't for the title, it was for the zquest. Duuuuh. It disappeared when everyone turned their reward in.
lol. Someone explain to me how /roll, an inherently random act, fixes the outcome of a match. If anything, it makes it more random. Usually, it's the person who has the better build and tactics that wins, this makes it truly random.

You guys overreact to everything and just feel the inherent need to defend Anet even when they overreact to a non-problem. It's pretty sad.

the fact that "red resigns" rule has appeared just proves one thing. No matter what a company decides to do, people will find a way around their restrictions. HM? DoA? Skill nerfs? People found a way around all of these, and now many areas are solo farmable and all that jazz. People are always more intelligent than a company will give them credit for.

The restriction on rolling is no different. People found a way around it in less than a day. Congrats Anet, you've solved nothing, you've only taken away players' freedom to roll in HA for goodies. I don't know what it'll take to make these idiotic companies understand that more freedom is nearly always preferable to restrictions.

Oh, so now you actually have to do some work to get a pvp title

Ohnu!

Yeah I'm all for this /signed anything to stop the cheating and farming and put SKILL back into the game. There is NO SKILL is rolling or using some method other than what the game intended for the match outcome. Personally if it were my game I would just ban anyone using any other method but actually competing for the match win.

The other way to solve this issue is you MUST score a min of 10 points before the match ends and that means doing something besides rolling or playing patty cake or rock,paper, scissors.

Another way to solve this issue is take out the /resign command!!! Yeah boy that'll fix em and if a player leaves any other way than the end of the match sequence they get 10 minutes of sitout time for dishonor. Yep even on a disconnect get a better ISP.

I love all these"I read the word I in the OP so I've to post my own I" post...

time to close thread

It's no different than real life in that a few bad apples can affect a whole group. Maybe if the OP was a little more diplomatic and mature in his wording of what he meant it might have helped his point.

What I want to know is, has Michael Moore been contacted?

A few MATs ago when [rawr] agreed to tie a match by running around for the entire time, it was considered ladder manipulation. Even if a /roll is agreed upon by both players it doesn't mean it's not a manipulation.

How is /roll comparable to drawing a match in a mAT? When you /roll one random member of the game will win the match. There was no, hey I have more points to get to the singles and you need a win in order to get there. So I will give you a free win so you can be there.

In the rawr and zero match, both guilds agreed in game that neither of them would attempt to win the game and they would tie. This gave both teams a significant advantage in the point systems of the mAT guaranteeing them a spot in the single elims. It may be arguable that rawr and zero both would have made it no matter the true outcome of the match, but it was still manipulation and anet acted upon it to try to prevent others from repeating this in the future. The punishment was really bad but that is a whole different extremely drawn out and over talked discussion.

Comparing these two things is asinine. I believe your point is that you believe what rawr and zero did was not cheating and that if that was considered cheating by anet than this is clearly cheating. Which is a horrible assumption because the rawr and zero conga line was 1000 times worse than /rolling. Even though it was amusing.

My point is that according to the new (and ridiculous) rules that Anet set for PvP, /rolling is put in the same light as agreeing to a draw. And while I may view that agreeing to a draw is a legitimate strategy, especially in a tournament, if Anet wants to call it illegal then that's what you have to go by. Same applies to /roll.

I'm not going to argue that point one way or the other. Maturity is sometimes too much to ask of someone that is p*ss*d off.

I should know, I'm guilty of it myself, lol.

Anyway, I'm sure people are aware of that fact that life is inherently not fair, however this is a game and therefore there is a level of control over the fairness we experience from the makers, but like I said previously, Anet prefers to use an axe, rather than a scalpel, to resolve this issues. In the end only creates more issues for them in the form of people bitching. Loudly I might add.

Personally, I don't really care one way or the other. I don't pvp much.

have you ever thought of the fact that no one in guru or Anet gives a flying RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO what you think? just saying

Guild: X Legion Of Doom X
Irony....

The problem is, "manipulation" means you actually fix the outcome of a fight in someones favor (by running a smurf, by making a side agreement to throw or draw a fight, etc). /roll is by definition, not fixed.

Anyway, I will say again, there is a post by Lindsey from a few months ago where she explicitly said /roll was not considered match manipulation, and they won't ban you for it. It's merely not encouraged, and thus why it was removed. But as Dreamwind and myself (amoung others, and I rarely ever agreee with Dreamwind so you know I'm not just being buddy buddy here), removing /roll doesn't fix the problem. Within seconds of reading this update, I thought of the idea that people who are a specific color should just resign (although I suggested blue and most people are using red, R for Resign), which was also thought of by other people. Others are doing rock paper scissors.

The way to fix HB is to actually make it enjoyable to play. You COULD in theory /roll in any form of PvP. Just because HB has rewards isn't why people roll, because then people could /roll in everything. They roll because it's literally just not fun. The title is pure grind, its not enjoyable, its dominated by gimmick capway teleporting mechanics and there is no reason to actually fight anybody. You win by solo ganking and shadowstepping the entire fight. Plus, its not very newbie friendly, as there are only a small number of people running PvX wiki builds there all the time who will immediately destroy new players. It's not FUN.

Edit: Why should people "work for" a PvP title if they aren't even enjoying themselves? Most people don't even bother rolling in HB. The only time rolling comes up in mass is during double weekends or the new z-quests. Most people just avoid the place altogether like the plague. PvPers hate it because its too much like PvE (hereos, ewww...) and PvEers hate it because its too much like PvP (having to run gimmick builds or get dominated and having to deal with "LOL u noob u suck" players). If you actually want to make the place popular, you got to make it enjoyable to more people then the small group of people who enjoy it (massacre, MMS Dome, Vi Ru, etc) or the title grinders who just want to increase their bathazar cap.

If they don't enjoy it and are unwilling to work for it, then they shouldn't be going for the rewards/title. It's that simple. What they should *NOT* be doing is manipulating the match outcome (and deciding, even randomly, who is the one to throw the match and resign is match manipulation) or cluttering up the area under some misguided notion that they 'need' that title or reward.

Yeah... that's what the very next sentence after that one says Ogre.
People DON'T go for the rewards. Most people avoid HB.

Stopped reading about halfway through, but the OP is right. If you guys would just look at the big picture, it's not impossible that while they take something as petty as /roll away today, what's stopping them from pulling other retarded crap out of their asses another day? Like banning runners because it allows you to skip half of prophecies (boring as hell missions IMO) or farmers because it's upsetting the economy. The point is, this change was completely unnecessary and retarded on the part of Anet; just another mistake in a long line of failures by the game devs.

Slippery slopes are a retarded fallacy. Taking away /roll in other forms of PvP wasn't necessary, but it also isn't as big of a deal as the OP tries to make of it. It also doesn't mean that Anet is going to make changes like banning runners or anything stupid like that. Changing /roll was an attempt at getting rid of commander pt farmers. Obviously it didn't work as intended, but this change doesn't give any indication that Anet would make randomly dumb changes such as banning runners.

Have a feeling you'll just see in hb. "ok on 3 type rock, paper or scissors". Or they will just come up with 3 emotes and say jump beats clap and laugh beats jump or something stupid like that. This change won't affect the players who abuse them.

Frankly, they should stop runners - or at least put more restrictions on them. Close the back gate to Beacon's Perch, for example, and put a guard there that'll only let level 20s through (which, I think, would cause far less whining than my normal suggestion of having the Stone Summit Dwarves get annoyed at all the humans waltzing through their lands and engineering a huge avalanche to block the southern end of Lornar's Pass). Might take a bit of effort to come up with a logical in-game reason, but blocking off the passages between the Cursed Lands and the Black Curtain is something that definitely needs to be done.

^But that's the whole point of this thread/argument. The fact that Anet's taking away a game mechanic that had absolutely no effect on the problem at hand shows just how shortsighted they are. And if they can do this to /roll, what's stopping them from doing something even more stupid? The runner/farmer examples I listed are just that, examples off the top of my head. We all know that there's about a dozen other things that's plaguing the game right now. What's to say that they won't be effected next similar to what we saw with /roll?

Meh, what's done is done. What's the big deal? It's not like it's got some emote that can annoy people through visuals...

I really don't see the problem. And really, /Rolling isn't "playing" the game really is it?

Unfortunately that is the sad culture of Guild Wars ever since titles were released. Most people just want the titles, they don't care how boring the activity is to achieve the title. So when Anet releases a double point weekend or whatever there is a huge influx of players to /roll and Anet tries to "fix" the problem by removing /roll. It is pathetic on so many levels by both Anet (for not fixing their game properly) and the players (for mindlessly farming titles).

Boring is a very subjective and differs from person to person. Would there be as much complaining if they had removed the point emote? Remember you are only looking at it from your perspective and can only speak for yourself.

The only ones who'd complain about /point being gone are the pervs.
Local Chat:
IllIllpervIllIll points
IllIllpervIllIll: b00bs
*x4 per female ele in pre.

Other than that Its a useless emote and nobody would really care, only /dance and /sit or the title emotes have any liking. /roll had a use and therefore caused an uproar at its removal.

Fine...then replace boring with broken. People don't care how broken HB is as long as they get their title or whatever other reward.

Uh...no. Its a well known fact that a large number of people are only playing for titles. The large influx of players into HB during some weekends causes a lot of /roll, thus the reason Anet removed it. That being said, it is still a pathetic and sad move on Anet's part on many levels for all the reasons mentioned in this thread.