The whole playing the game the way anet wants you to is total bull crap. It is true and I'm not arguing that it is how the game is being run, I'm saying running the game that way is total bull crap.
I remember listening to a radio broadcast the day the guru tournament was being held and listening to something Joe Hostile said. He said that people were trying to tell Izzy how to balance the mesmer because this is what a mesmer is supposed to do. Izzy's response was, wtf I created the mesmer I tell you what it is supposed to do. That is complete and total crap. I don't care how you intended something to be played, the players are the ones who decide how it will be used. Just because you design something one way does not mean that is the way it will be used. We play the game. Anet doesn't. We know what works and what doesn't. We know how something should be played to get the best usage out of it.
That is why people have left this game and why GvG is pretty much dead now. Anet took our game away from us and is trying to impose their game on us. Guess what, we hate it. It is boring and it is imbalanced as hell. Either start listening to your player base and give us what we are asking for, or start playing the game yourself. Maybe then you'll have a better understanding of how the game should be played.
P.S don't give me crap about anet playing PvE or something. I'm discussing the imbalanced of PvP and the reasoning behind it being Anet employees are not allowed to compete competitively and they aren't listening to the people who do.
oh and back on to the original topic, taking /roll away is dumb simply because it does nothing to change HB. All it does is make them use a different tactic. You want people to play the game your way, then make your way fun.
/roll, another liberty taken away from the player
Still Number One
Rocky Raccoon
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Originally Posted by theryl2002
I agree with Kaon as to the fact that /roll should have only been removed from HB, and sadly I am also not surprised to notice that 95% of the people who posted here CANNOT READ A DAMNED WORD THAT KAON WROTE.
Here let me put a summarized version in CAPS so you can read it better. HE ISNT WHINING THAT HE CANT MANIPULATE THE SYSTEM BY /ROLLING GVG/HA/TA/RA MATCHES, HE'S JUST POINTING OUT THAT WHEN PEOPLE ARE WAITING FOR THEIR NEXT MATCH TO START/END/WHATEVER THEY LIKE TO USE THE /ROLL FEATURE FOR NON-GAME RELATED SITUATIONS. HIS ENTIRE POST WAS NOT ABOUT HIS LOSS OF MANIPULATION ABILITIES, BUT BEING DEPRIVED OF ONE WAY HE WOULD GET MORE ENJOYMENT OUT OF THE GAME, WHICH WAS CREATING A MINI-GAME WITHIN THE GAME WHICH RELIED ON THE /ROLL FEATURE. NOW EVERYONE FLAMING THE OP FOR MANIPULATION SHUT THE F UP AND TO BACK AND ACTUALLY READ HIS POST. That is all thank you. |
Seems like he agrees that it should be okay for HB also.
Kaleban
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Originally Posted by MithranArkanere
You 'liberty' was a breach of the rules. YOUR way affected others.
The result of PvP competitions is made by COMPETING in PvP. |
It takes two to tango, right? So if two people zone in, one says "/roll" then the other player must agree to those terms.
Sort of like consentual PvP. If the other player says, "No, I want to fight" then the /roller is faced with either fighting and losing (inevitable if they depend on rolling to win) or zoning out and looking for another match with a compatible roller.
In either case, the non-roller's game is NOT impacted in any way, since they can choose to always fight and win against bad rollers, or get an easy win by a lame roller. And eventually, rollers would be made extinct by the larger volume of people actually wanting to play, although its human nature I guess to want the easy way. Let the free market take care of itself lol.
Also, there is no rule that explicitly states "no rolling" but that's the same kind of logic as saying ANet is against grinding, when all thats left to do anymore after 4 years is grind.
No matter what though, its ALWAYS a bad thing to remove an option for players if said option has no deleterious effects on the population as a whole. Its not as if having thousands of rank 12 Commanders impacts the gameplay world in ANY way, apart from them having one more maxed title. I think that heavy handed changes to simple issues constitutes a major lack of thought on the part of ANet.
oljomo
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Originally Posted by Kaon
After winning 5 matches your rating will be high enough so you won't be facing rollers anymore.
Also, you are completely ignoring half my argument, which is on itsself reason enough not to remove this command. If HB is the problem. What has this to do with GvG? |
Sure maybe all pvp was a bit harsh, but something needed to be done
Quote:
| In either case, the non-roller's game is NOT impacted in any way, since they can choose to always fight and win against bad rollers, or get an easy win by a lame roller. And eventually, rollers would be made extinct by the larger volume of people actually wanting to play, although its human nature I guess to want the easy way. Let the free market take care of itself lol. |
Shasgaliel
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kaleban
In either case, the non-roller's game is NOT impacted in any way, since they can choose to always fight and win against bad rollers, or get an easy win by a lame roller. And eventually, rollers would be made extinct by the larger volume of people actually wanting to play, although its human nature I guess to want the easy way. Let the free market take care of itself lol. |
EDIT: If you people would not abuse it so much it would have stayed there. ANET said it was not an issue. What was happening recently was much over the edge. If you wish to keep something you need to learn the limits. I also would not mind facing a roller once a while but more than 50% of games is too much.
Hailey Anne
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Originally Posted by Kaon
Why are we, the playerbase, not allowed to play the game the way we want? Why are we not allowed to have fun on our way? Why?
/roll was removed from pvp because in hero battles, players used it to decide the outcome of matches and farm the title quickly. How is this bad? If they have fun this way, why not let them be? I do not understand this fascistical reaction from ArenaNet. If people have fun playing the game a certain way and it doesn't hurt anybody, why should it be removed? Unimaginable. Most importantly. This fix extends far beyond the solution of the actual problem. If you consider rolling in HvH a problem, then solve the problem, do not RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO over all the other pvp modes. Why are we not allowed to roll in gvg, tomz, ab, ra, or ta? Rolling has never had a negative impact on these playstyles. Why should it be banned? I have had lots of fun rolling randomly in AB or GvG, just to kill time while waiting, or to do funny games. "ROLL FOR BIGGEST PENIS!" Fun. Every time I win HoH everyone gets these random items noone needs. We always casino roll for them. None of this is possible anymore. This isn't really that big of a deal. I do think it's yet another perfect example of Anet not really having a clue what's going on and fixing the problem overdramatically causing much more harm than good. Something that has been happening in PvP since... forever. Also I hate it when a liberty of mine is taken away for no good reason whatsoever. I payed 180euros for this game. I want to play it my way. As long as I don't spoil the fun for anyone else, why am I not allowed to do this? admin request: I see a LOT of spam in this topic. A large amount of posts does not reply to my arguments. It would be nice if they could be cleaned up so this thread doesn't instantly turn into a clogged up mess. |
Because not everyone has fun rolling.
If i go into HB I do it because I actually want to play it.
But then the person across doesnt so they just leave.
rolling to get a win because you cant do it on your own makes it extremely boring imo.
UnChosen
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Originally Posted by makosi
I hear 'red resigns' is the new HB rules. If you spawn as the red team, you have to /resign. Simple.
Another genius idea from the devs! |
IrishX
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Risky Ranger
I quote Kaon "/roll was removed from pvp because in hero battles, players used it to decide the outcome of matches and farm the title quickly. How is this bad? If they have fun this way, why not let them be? I do not understand this fascistical reaction from ArenaNet. If people have fun playing the game a certain way and it doesn't hurt anybody, why should it be removed? Unimaginable."
Seems like he agrees that it should be okay for HB also. |
Sarevok Thordin
Removing /resign from HB would do nothing, they'd simply map out or logout.
MMSDome
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Originally Posted by Sarevok Thordin
Removing /resign from HB would do nothing, they'd simply map out or logout.
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Thank you for that in depth and highly thought up analysis of what people might do if the resign feature was removed.
You are a genius.
Sirds
Well, OP get a point.
Although rolling is only one small part of problem. True problem is Anet update politic. They give with one hand and take away with other and this is very annoying. If no /roll emote was made, there couldnt reason for thid tread. But /roll WAS made and you cannot take this stuff away without affecting players anymore.
Pandora box is open, no way back. If there is problem you need NEW solution for fix it.
Kid (player): Mammy, can I have this candy?
Mama (Anet): Yes, of course.
Kid: yammm, yamm, yammm...
Mama: Stop it, you eat to much! Give me back!
Kid: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!! Why you make me cry? You are bad! aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mama: Shut up! Here is other candy.
Kid: Yahoo! You are great, mammy! yammm.. yammm... yammm...
Mama: Please understand, kid, if you not stop eat only candies I will call to doctor.
Kid: yammm... yammm... yammm...
Mama: Stop it! Stop! Give me back!
Kid: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!! aaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am in depression, now I need more candies...
... and so on.
Although rolling is only one small part of problem. True problem is Anet update politic. They give with one hand and take away with other and this is very annoying. If no /roll emote was made, there couldnt reason for thid tread. But /roll WAS made and you cannot take this stuff away without affecting players anymore.
Pandora box is open, no way back. If there is problem you need NEW solution for fix it.
Kid (player): Mammy, can I have this candy?
Mama (Anet): Yes, of course.
Kid: yammm, yamm, yammm...
Mama: Stop it, you eat to much! Give me back!
Kid: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!! Why you make me cry? You are bad! aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mama: Shut up! Here is other candy.
Kid: Yahoo! You are great, mammy! yammm.. yammm... yammm...
Mama: Please understand, kid, if you not stop eat only candies I will call to doctor.
Kid: yammm... yammm... yammm...
Mama: Stop it! Stop! Give me back!
Kid: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!! aaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am in depression, now I need more candies...
... and so on.
Sarevok Thordin
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Originally Posted by MMSDome
Thank you for that in depth and highly thought up analysis of what people might do if the resign feature was removed.
You are a genius. |
Konig Des Todes
Sirds has a point, the more a child is given, the more the child will want, the child acts to get what he wants through annoyance, and the mother always gives in. Every human does this as a kid. But every kid grows up and realizes his mistake when he meets younger people and they annoy him. Annoy and annoy, till he goes crazy and the men in white come for him. Annoy annoy, till he punishes the kids. Annoy annoy. Always annoyed.
Mr. G
Are you suggesting Anet will come and kill the trouble makers in their sleep?
Oh noes! The poster is coming true!
Oh noes! The poster is coming true!
Improvavel
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Originally Posted by Earth
I totally agree, except that I don't roll for biggest penis. They should have just removed it from HB, including the rock paper and scissors command. Then they would have to find something to fix the red resigns thing going on right now.
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Still Number One
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Originally Posted by Improvavel
Or they could remove the HB title from counting to KoaBD title and not offer quests that give zaishen coins for it.
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IrishX
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Originally Posted by Sarevok Thordin
Removing /resign from HB would do nothing, they'd simply map out or logout.
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Eragon Zarroc
lol, what's the point? the people who rolled will just find another way. red=resign? rock paper scissors? the only way to prevent this shit is to put dishonorable into HB, *sigh*. why put in an half-ass fix when they already have the system implemented in other areas of pvp to prevent this type of shit?
anyways, that's just a criticism of a-nets stupidity. i enjoyed rolling =). benefits without effort ftw. i mean sure, u can go in and spend 10 min a match for the chance of winning. or u can go in, wait 20 secs for a chance of winning. lol. even now with rps or red=resign, despite the fact that it takes longer and less people participate in it, it is the fact that it gives u the chance of reward with very little effort that makes it attractive.
people who bash it, idk. what's the point? lol. i suppose people just enjoy bashing other people. makes em feel all warm and fuzzy inside ;-) w/e, lol, if bashing people gives u an orgy, have at it ;-)
anyways, that's just a criticism of a-nets stupidity. i enjoyed rolling =). benefits without effort ftw. i mean sure, u can go in and spend 10 min a match for the chance of winning. or u can go in, wait 20 secs for a chance of winning. lol. even now with rps or red=resign, despite the fact that it takes longer and less people participate in it, it is the fact that it gives u the chance of reward with very little effort that makes it attractive.
people who bash it, idk. what's the point? lol. i suppose people just enjoy bashing other people. makes em feel all warm and fuzzy inside ;-) w/e, lol, if bashing people gives u an orgy, have at it ;-)
Apollo Smile
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Originally Posted by Still Number One
Or they could actually do updates to HB that would make it fun so people would have a reason to play it.
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Kaon
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Risky Ranger
I quote Kaon "/roll was removed from pvp because in hero battles, players used it to decide the outcome of matches and farm the title quickly. How is this bad? If they have fun this way, why not let them be? I do not understand this fascistical reaction from ArenaNet. If people have fun playing the game a certain way and it doesn't hurt anybody, why should it be removed? Unimaginable."
Seems like he agrees that it should be okay for HB also. |
But yes, I do think rolling should be allowed in Hero Battles as well. I stated my reasons clearly and it seems most people don't agree. I'm fine with that, in fact I don't give a flying RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO about the most boring game mode in guild wars. I do think its ridiculous that this game mode has now negatively impacted game modes I do like, without good reason.
Obrien Xp
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Originally Posted by Gli
Game designers are fascists now for eliminating exploit options!
I do agree that this is a fix that extends far beyond the solution of the actual problem. The solution of the actual problem would be to aggressively pursue and perma-ban cheating match-manipulating scum. If we're going to be fascists, let's be serious about it! Oh well... |
DreamWind
I think the only conclusion we can get out of this is...Anet is retarded. They are just retarded with the power to do whatever they want. Nice combination. /lock
Gli
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Originally Posted by Obrien Xp
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Still Number One
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Originally Posted by Apollo Smile
They could make it the most fun experience in the world and people would still do it the fastest way possible with doing any work. Thats just how title grinders /roll.
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Shuuda
Another "liberty"... lolwut?
Video games are not a democracy.
Video games are not a democracy.
Mr. G
You know this thread could have been something if the OP took time to write a nice debate question rather than throwing a temper tantrum and ranting about "Liberties" and "rights"
Take a lesson here folks.
Take a lesson here folks.
Rocky Raccoon
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Originally Posted by Kaon
Next I have more than 1 argument i'll make seperate threads for each, otherwise it is clearly too hard to understand for the average PvEr, this is proven by exhuberant amount of brainless responses.
But yes, I do think rolling should be allowed in Hero Battles as well. I stated my reasons clearly and it seems most people don't agree. I'm fine with that, in fact I don't give a flying RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO about the most boring game mode in guild wars. I do think its ridiculous that this game mode has now negatively impacted game modes I do like, without good reason. |
scruffy
anet is really smart in how they fix problems, they are so smart in fact that i gaurentee they are discussing changing it so that in all pvp arenas both teams are blue to prevent the red team from resiging.
hats off to anet for eliminating the problems at their source.
hats off to anet for eliminating the problems at their source.
Mekhet Ossa
How am i now going to play Monopoly in The Vault?
ANet, please, enable /roll again in all game modes except Hero Battles.
ANet, please, enable /roll again in all game modes except Hero Battles.
Rocky Raccoon
Quote:
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Originally Posted by scruffy
anet is really smart in how they fix problems, they are so smart in fact that i gaurentee they are discussing changing it so that in all pvp arenas both teams are blue to prevent the red team from resiging.
hats off to anet for eliminating the problems at their source. |
kedde
Pretty much noone gives a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO about 1v1. It's a bad mode, flawed and boring and was broken from the beginning.
/roll was retarded, but only because the game mode was retarded.
Removing /roll did nothing to fix anything related to the problem, it only served to remove yet another little fun diversion some players had a lot of fun with.
That's the entire argument, that this decision was completely retarded.
Instead of removing something like /roll, they should've fixed the game format instead.
Whether he agrees to /roll being wrong or not is completely and utterly irrelevant to anything and everything.
/roll was retarded, but only because the game mode was retarded.
Removing /roll did nothing to fix anything related to the problem, it only served to remove yet another little fun diversion some players had a lot of fun with.
That's the entire argument, that this decision was completely retarded.
Instead of removing something like /roll, they should've fixed the game format instead.
Whether he agrees to /roll being wrong or not is completely and utterly irrelevant to anything and everything.
Elephantaliste
/roll was abused, it got removed for this reason.
Am I right when I say that public whiners about this fix are actually hardcore abusers ?
(of course sometimes people are enjoying abusing things... but it doesn't mean abused things haven't to be fixed !!)
Am I right when I say that public whiners about this fix are actually hardcore abusers ?
(of course sometimes people are enjoying abusing things... but it doesn't mean abused things haven't to be fixed !!)
Kaon
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Risky Ranger
If you are an example of an average PvPer they all should be ashamed. Please note the highlighted words above and you will see what this whole rant entails.
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Improvavel
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Elephantaliste
/roll was abused, it got removed for this reason.
Am I right when I say that public whiners about this fix are actually hardcore abusers ? (of course sometimes people are enjoying abusing things... but it doesn't mean abused things haven't to be fixed !!) |
We already know the answer - and it is no.
Whatever opinion each people has about HB its irrelevant.
Some people enjoy playing it and they should be able to play it the way its designed - fighting - and have their fun.
But on the other hand removing /roll accomplished 0 to fix this - now red team resigns. And if it wasn't that way it would be rock, paper and scissors.
What they accomplished was removing roll form all the other PvP areas.
It isn't really that important but makes you think what the the Anet dudes are smoking when they come with this brilliant ideas.
Rocky Raccoon
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Originally Posted by Kaon
What the hell is your point? So far you have contributed nothing to this thread but spam and haven't responded to my arguments once. This is exactly in line with 90% of the rest of the responses so I can quite easily claim you're an average PvEr. This means you're retarded and lack the brain capacity to read a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing thread.
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Kaon
[QUOTE=Risky Ranger;4611402]My point is that you only care about how it affects your game play and nothing else. My point is that you cannot carry on a civil conversation -... [QUOTE]
And this is where I stopped reading because there has never been a conversation. Ergo: what the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO are you talking about?
Also, of course what the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO are you saying with "it only effects my gameplay." That's a piece of nonsensical bullcrap. If it didn't affect my gameplay I wouldn't care, just like I don't give a remote shit to what happens in PvE. Only this time my gameplay DOES get affected and there is no good reason to do so whatsoever. This is the point of the thread.
You're so dumb I can't believe I'm even replying on your posts.
And this is where I stopped reading because there has never been a conversation. Ergo: what the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO are you talking about?
Also, of course what the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO are you saying with "it only effects my gameplay." That's a piece of nonsensical bullcrap. If it didn't affect my gameplay I wouldn't care, just like I don't give a remote shit to what happens in PvE. Only this time my gameplay DOES get affected and there is no good reason to do so whatsoever. This is the point of the thread.
You're so dumb I can't believe I'm even replying on your posts.
Rocky Raccoon
[quote=Kaon;4611428][quote=Risky Ranger;4611402]My point is that you only care about how it affects your game play and nothing else. My point is that you cannot carry on a civil conversation -...
Please continue as your credibility (if you ever had any) just slowly slips away with each word you type. Your contention that if it is fun you should allowed to do it doesn't hold water. My suggestion is for you to go find a game that allows you to do as you want. I doubt you will find as even Anarchy Online has rules.
Quote:
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And this is where I stopped reading because there has never been a conversation. Ergo: what the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO are you talking about? Also, of course what the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO are you saying with "it only effects my gameplay." That's a piece of nonsensical bullcrap. If it didn't affect my gameplay I wouldn't care, just like I don't give a remote shit to what happens in PvE. Only this time my gameplay DOES get affected and there is no good reason to do so whatsoever. This is the point of the thread. You're so dumb I can't believe I'm even replying on your posts. |
Ebony Shadowheart
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Kaon
THE MAIN PART OF THE ARGUMENT IS THAT EVEN ASSUMING (WHICH I DISAGREE WITH) ROLLING DESTROYS HB. IT SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN BANNED IN OTHER FORMS OF PVP AS GVG=/=HB. |
This is simply how Anet resolves issues.
It's not that /roll was an issue in the other areas of pvp, it was probably more along the lines that the coding to simply remove it from all pvp was simpler than specifying 'if....then....else' for various pvp areas in order to allow it in some and not others.
Take a look at what they did to soul reaping because of the issue in HA with spirits and minions. Instead of simply removing the SR from those 2 things specifically they cut down how many times per 'x' time you get the SR energy, and eventually removed it from spirits and minions as well. It's an old argument, but you get the point.
Anet prefers to fix issues with an axe, rather than a scalpel.
Martin Firestorm
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Risky Ranger
My point is that you only care about how it affects your game play and nothing else. My point is that you cannot carry on a civil conversation -...
Please continue as your credibility (if you ever had any) just slowly slips away with each word you type. Your contention that if it is fun you should allowed to do it doesn't hold water. My suggestion is for you to go find a game that allows you to do as you want. I doubt you will find as even Anarchy Online has rules. |
Personally, I don't care much about this, and not at all about HB. But what's the point of disabling an emote to prevent HB wins without actually fighting if there's still 20 other ways to do that?
Rocky Raccoon
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Martin Firestorm
He made a valid point, whether you agree or disagree. Of course he's concerned only about how it affected his gameplay. What else would you expect? He's not claiming to be some sort of community spokesman, as I gather you are. If there's a credibility problem here, I believe its yours.
Personally, I don't care much about this, and not at all about HB. But what's the point of disabling an emote to prevent HB wins without actually fighting if there's still 20 other ways to do that? |