This is an issue that has been brought up time and time again.
PvPers in this game are, no offense to them, complete elitist jackasses. They only want to work with people on "their" level and refuse to see fit to help new blood into the game, because you can't PvP at high level by yourself, you need other people, and what happens when the current people start to leave high level PvP, get some more? Sorry there aren't any!
The elitism is destroying high lvl PvP's player base, very little experienced players are helping lesser players into the game, thus the people looking to get into the big PvP scene think "Screw this, what a bunch of doochebags" and leave.
Funny thing is, some people WITH rank are complete scrubs themselves. I remember a story about a certain scrub who bought his champion title from a high lvl guild who synced with another....
Rant: What's with so many elitest PVP guilds?
Sarevok Thordin
DarkNecrid
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Originally Posted by EPO Bot
Do hardcore HA'ers even enjoy what they are doing? What's still game about the game when it requires you to take it more seriously then your job and even your family?
I think farming 15 juni berries is much more rewarding then practicing six months just to make it to the hall. Hooray! We got in the hall and got pwnd instantly. But at least we got in! |
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Wow, you were really spoon fed all that bs, weren't you? It doesn't take skill. It doesn't take any skill at all... Some of the worst players I've ever seen at least know strategies and have decent rank. I knew this one guy 4 yrs ago, stupidest mofo I'd ever met.. He had r9. He was an absolutely horrible monk.. People took him on their teams just because he was hilarious in how stupid he was. He didn't even try to be, people just loved making fun of him. He wasn't the worst monk ever, but a hench probably would have done better. Yet, he still had a tiger within the first 3-5 months of GW. It's not about "skill." It never was about skill. It's about playing well and communicating well with the rest of your team, and sticking together. If you have good communication and work well together, you're going to get somewhere as long as you stick together, even if you aren't the best players. You can be the best player in the world and play with different people every time and one bad team after another, and you're still going to suck because this isn't a 1v1v1v1v1v1v1. . . game. HA is 8v8. That 1 person doesn't matter how skilled they are or not, what matters is how well the team works together. 4 years..? Huh? I haven't played GW in months.. I logged on last night I think it was, and got 10 fame, just screwing around cause a friend invited me to come play with her. That's an absolute horrible amount of fame too, but even if you got 10 fame a day, you'd eventually get lucky and get a bit more, and you'd get fame np... If it's not about fame, then why the hell would you keep joining "no rank requirement" guilds? And wait.. Please tell me you didn't just say BHA rangers.. BHA rangers..? You mean the rangers that shoot 1 skill on a caster then just let their bow auto fire, occasionally moving so they're actually shooting the target? You RA a lot, don't you? You call that "skill..?" LOL!!!! Okay. You win the thread, it's okay. You can have your wrist slashing crymo event. I don't even care... |
@OP:
They aren't being elitist per se. I guess maybe it fits the definition, but PvP is such a more challenging environment than PvE is that you need people relative to your knowledge and communication ability level or else you're just going to crumble. Ranks help you get a good guesstimate on this. It isn't always accurate but it saves some time. Someone who is rank 9 is probably going to have the same relative knowledge level as someone else who is rank 9 (map, skill knowledge, etc). They might not actually be as skilled (ran gimmicks 24/7, etc) but that's something that can be judged a lot easier (and then improved upon if the team wants).
Apollo Smile
Well, the "holier than thou" attitude certainly isn't going to help PVP grow.
Inde
Entitlement. <--- Best sums up your post.
I acknowledge that you are frustrated and it's just a bad day but your entire post is ironic and contradictory all at the same time. From the little part about you being polite and then referring to the entire crowd as retarded/elitist/bullsh***** to having so much experience and then not even knowing a good PvP guild to approach/get into it.
Sorry to be harsh there Kain Fz. I understand where you are coming from but I can't get over the way it was presented.
I acknowledge that you are frustrated and it's just a bad day but your entire post is ironic and contradictory all at the same time. From the little part about you being polite and then referring to the entire crowd as retarded/elitist/bullsh***** to having so much experience and then not even knowing a good PvP guild to approach/get into it.
Sorry to be harsh there Kain Fz. I understand where you are coming from but I can't get over the way it was presented.
Gift3d
Carebears PvErs who try to get into pvp by saying they "understand the game" and all that garbage is the real false advertising. They're also a dime a dozen and quite frankly you guys have just made a bad name for yourselves by being bad players. You fit perfectly into that stereotype, too. Way to go.
Which, i mean, is expected. No, rank doesn't show skill. It shows experience. I want ranked people so i don't have to tell them what to do on every map, the higher rank someone is, the more likely they are to have experience in all areas of that map, the more likely they know what to do and can think for themselves without asking obnoxious newb questions.
You, having pretty much no experience in PvP, thinking you deserve a spot in a high ranked PvP guild, thinking you deserve anything else but bullshit from people not willing to put up with your newbness, is such a bad bad bad joke, it's not even funny.
Which, i mean, is expected. No, rank doesn't show skill. It shows experience. I want ranked people so i don't have to tell them what to do on every map, the higher rank someone is, the more likely they are to have experience in all areas of that map, the more likely they know what to do and can think for themselves without asking obnoxious newb questions.
You, having pretty much no experience in PvP, thinking you deserve a spot in a high ranked PvP guild, thinking you deserve anything else but bullshit from people not willing to put up with your newbness, is such a bad bad bad joke, it's not even funny.
Martin Firestorm
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Originally Posted by Kain Fz
just because of the mere mention of "A high-end PVE player wanting to get into PVP".
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DarkNecrid
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Originally Posted by Apollo Smile
Well, the "holier than thou" attitude certainly isn't going to help PVP grow.
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Originally Posted by Sarevok Thordin
This is an issue that has been brought up time and time again.
PvPers in this game are, no offense to them, complete elitist jackasses. They only want to work with people on "their" level and refuse to see fit to help new blood into the game, because you can't PvP at high level by yourself, you need other people, and what happens when the current people start to leave high level PvP, get some more? Sorry there aren't any! The elitism is destroying high lvl PvP's player base, very little experienced players are helping lesser players into the game, thus the people looking to get into the big PvP scene think "Screw this, what a bunch of doochebags" and leave. Funny thing is, some people WITH rank are complete scrubs themselves. I remember a story about a certain scrub who bought his champion title from a high lvl guild who synced with another.... |
What Now
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Originally Posted by Selket
I'm pretty sure that anyone ever can be a high end pve player. Heroes can do it without any gear.
I'm pretty sure telling people that you are a high end pve player is why you get rejected. Were there actually any good PvErs (I could probably name one or something), I'm sure someone in some guild would have heard of them and would have known that you were not one of them and rejected you even moreso. Saying "I was one of the first x" is just stupid. You can't prove it and it doesn't mean anything even if you could. |
Rhamia Darigaz
i too wish to join a good guild and feel that if a guild does not let me in they are elitist assholes. why can't they see how good i will be from the fact that i told them i'm a high-end pve player. HIGH END! wtf that's like all the cred you need. and then when they say no we want someone who has gvged before i say wtf you shit-for-brains just because i've never gvged before doesn't mean i'm not allowed in the guild. who are you to tell me i can't join? in fact i was just about to make a thread just like this but you beat me to it. want to be in a guild with me? we're both non-elitist, polite, high-end pve players who will show them how wrong they were to reject us by farming a gold cape next month. we could call our guild "Lol Runescape PvP > Guild Wars P [vP]" and then everyone would be jealous of our humorous guild name with a tag that follow the format [aB] where a is a lowercase letter and B is a different uppercase letter. it's a formula for success! and then when the ranked "good" (elitist) pvp players wnat in our guild we will say no you don't have GWAMM and they will cry all the way back to their shitty guild with a unfunny name and non-formulaic tag.
i'll send the invite when i log on tonight.
i'll send the invite when i log on tonight.
Lhim
Aren't there any guilds that are willing to teach PvP to new PvP-players? You could gain some experience and work your way up from there.
I'll give you one thing though, a lot of guilds are retarded. But that goes for PvE- as well as PvP-guilds.
I'll give you one thing though, a lot of guilds are retarded. But that goes for PvE- as well as PvP-guilds.
Gun Pierson
The only prob with PvP is that although it's a minority, it's full of PvP'rs.
They look at PvE players for two things: to lowball on and to suck gold out of them. They don't welcome newbies and they forget everybody needs to start from scratch. Any help with that is welcome.
No wonder we have a problem with new blood coming into PvP.
Finally, I would like to add not all PvP guilds and PvP'rs are like that, at least I hope not.
@OP:Next time write a decent post and title if you want to discuss on a serious level.
They look at PvE players for two things: to lowball on and to suck gold out of them. They don't welcome newbies and they forget everybody needs to start from scratch. Any help with that is welcome.
No wonder we have a problem with new blood coming into PvP.
Finally, I would like to add not all PvP guilds and PvP'rs are like that, at least I hope not.
@OP:Next time write a decent post and title if you want to discuss on a serious level.
Johny bravo
This is coming from a PvE player who goes in and out of PvP. Make some friends, I HA'd with a couple guys just pugging around that were r6-r9. I did well and put them on my friends list. Whenever I felt like HAing I jumped into one of their ranked groups and they helped me get my r3. This was maybe 2-3 month ago, so its not like it was 4 years ago. I agree with what alleji said on tactics as I was clueless my first few times on any of the maps that weren't simply kill the other team. After a few groups with them I had a better understanding and r2. I still am very weak on map tactics for HA but at least I am familiar with all the maps now.
As for GvG I was in KISU for a few months and learned quite a bit there as far as strategies, map layouts, and the importance of know YOUR role on a team and how you can effect the outcome of a match. I would recommend just doing some GvG, win or lose you still learn the different maps and at the least what doesn't work. A guild that GvGs a lot is not going to pick up a guy who has no to little experience in GvG.
Unless you get really lucky you will not get in a good guild right off the bat. You will lose A LOT. learn move on get better and eventually you will get into a good guild.
Lastly PvE experience means absolutely nothing in GvG or HA. Even high-end non-gimmick experience is still no where near the same thing. In GvG strategies are shifting during the match itself and adjustments need to be made on the fly. In PvE the majority of adjustments are made prior to entering your zone. PvE and PvP are completely different experiences.
As for GvG I was in KISU for a few months and learned quite a bit there as far as strategies, map layouts, and the importance of know YOUR role on a team and how you can effect the outcome of a match. I would recommend just doing some GvG, win or lose you still learn the different maps and at the least what doesn't work. A guild that GvGs a lot is not going to pick up a guy who has no to little experience in GvG.
Unless you get really lucky you will not get in a good guild right off the bat. You will lose A LOT. learn move on get better and eventually you will get into a good guild.
Lastly PvE experience means absolutely nothing in GvG or HA. Even high-end non-gimmick experience is still no where near the same thing. In GvG strategies are shifting during the match itself and adjustments need to be made on the fly. In PvE the majority of adjustments are made prior to entering your zone. PvE and PvP are completely different experiences.
Skco
PvP'ers don't like wasting time talking to pve scrubs. Sorry
Back then
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Originally Posted by Kain Fz
I've actually heard a lot about KiSU and even bookmarked their forums.
Also, about abusing AI. I've played before even Nightfall was released. And even when it was, I played through the game with my Dervish without even using heroes (I was skeptical of them at that time.) or PvE skills whatsoever. Heck, when they finally released skills like Critical Agility and Eternal Aura, I simply couldn't believe how overpowered they were. Before the Critical Agility nerf, did you see how overpowered those Mesmer Illusionary Weapondry builds were? Of course, the mesmer reign in PvE lasted only a short amount of time. I'm also one of the few r10 norn paragons who didn't abuse Ursan. Back then, all we had some a gay man in a skirt, and careful usage of Cruel Spear. And when DoA first released, normal mode was like hard mode! Though, that being said, PVE and PVP are two different games. But on the bright side, it teaches you about all the skills and their potential in moth metagames. |
Wow can your ego get any bigger? You should fit right in with all these pvper's you hate.
i farm baddies
to op: get good
Apollo Smile
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Originally Posted by Skco
PvP'ers don't like wasting time talking to pve scrubs. Sorry
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DarkNecrid
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Originally Posted by Johny bravo
This is coming from a PvE player who goes in and out of PvP. Make some friends, I HA'd with a couple guys just pugging around that were r6-r9. I did well and put them on my friends list. Whenever I felt like HAing I jumped into one of their ranked groups and they helped me get my r3. This was maybe 2-3 month ago, so its not like it was 4 years ago. I agree with what alleji said on tactics as I was clueless my first few times on any of the maps that weren't simply kill the other team. After a few groups with them I had a better understanding and r2. I still am very weak on map tactics for HA but at least I am familiar with all the maps now.
As for GvG I was in KISU for a few months and learned quite a bit there as far as strategies, map layouts, and the importance of know YOUR role on a team and how you can effect the outcome of a match. I would recommend just doing some GvG, win or lose you still learn the different maps and at the least what doesn't work. A guild that GvGs a lot is not going to pick up a guy who has no to little experience in GvG. Unless you get really lucky you will not get in a good guild right off the bat. You will lose A LOT. learn move on get better and eventually you will get into a good guild. Lastly PvE experience means absolutely nothing in GvG or HA. Even high-end non-gimmick experience is still no where near the same thing. In GvG strategies are shifting during the match itself and adjustments need to be made on the fly. In PvE the majority of adjustments are made prior to entering your zone. PvE and PvP are completely different experiences. |
Lishy
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Originally Posted by Back then
Wow can your ego get any bigger? You should fit right in with all these pvper's you hate.
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Just understand the fact that back then, PvE and PvP skills weren't split, and that if someone doesn't learn about the game's skills, they wouldn't know about "I will avenge you" builds, or the Elementalist Bomb that's often seen in TA. They would be using Flame on a fast caster mesmer, because they don't know how the skills work and it's what they're familiar with. PvE gives you the "lead to the pencil needed to draw" our PvP builds. It isn't the drawing. But it allows you to draw that drawing because you have the lead.
I don't understand what they has to do with ego though. Explain?
To Gun Pierson: Like I said before in my apology, I was frustrated and made a really impulsive mistake when originally making this thread. Right now, I don't see how what I said wasn't stupid.
alluring athena
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Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
Are you any good: no.
No offense, but if you have no experience, why would someone want you? Do you think a decent PvE guild takes someone who's not experienced in all the farms, dungeons, and high-end areas? No. So why should PvP guilds take you, where the stakes and success are harder? |
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Originally Posted by Snow Bunny
PvE hasn't required skill for months now, so saying you're a high-end PvE player translates into "Hey, I've played a boring game where all the builds are gimmicks centered around impossible amounts of defense and offense, and all of our mistakes are voided by the consumables." |
and therefore a person who only PVPs and has tigers and whatever other emote gimmick is somehow greater than everyone else.
Unjustified elitism
Get off your pedestal because trust me...very few people are actually looking "up" to you.
lemming
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Originally Posted by Sarevok Thordin
PvPers in this game are, no offense to them, complete elitist jackasses. They only want to work with people on "their" level and refuse to see fit to help new blood into the game, because you can't PvP at high level by yourself, you need other people, and what happens when the current people start to leave high level PvP, get some more?
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keli
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Originally Posted by alluring athena
Actually the answer is "yes" any pve guild worth 1/2 a damn will take any player into any area and help them learn
Such a common misconception that PVP > PVE and therefore a person who only PVPs and has tigers and whatever other emote gimmick is somehow greater than everyone else. Unjustified elitism Get off your pedestal because trust me...very few people are actually looking "up" to you. |
MisterB
Most, if not all, PvP players want to win. It's competition. They'll naturally discrimate based on who they think can help them achieve their goal. They expect you to demonstrate competence and experience. Discrimination does not equal elitism, and it is not "retarded" to discriminate. Please tell me you haven't tried the same argument in a job interview, i.e. "Employers are retarded and elitist; they won't hire me."
dansamy
Half the crap people are saying in this thread isn't even the truth. Nobody gives a crap about your ranks in RA/TA/HA. Social networking in GW will get you into higher quality PvP groups. I was, at best, an "average" player. I ran with "better than average" groups and players because of good social networking. It helped that I was competent enough to play what they asked me, and they didn't ask me to play things I'm not competent to play. (OMG! Balthazar help you if you ever asked me to play warrior!) Now, to get networked to some decent PvPers, you do have to go where PvPers play. And that ain't DoA. Your best bet is to start PuGging HA. Yes, you'll be in a lot of crappy groups for a while. Eventually, you'll meet people you liked playing with and they liked you. You'll build a friends list. (FYI, ditch your PvE friends off the list right now. They'll get over it.) You'll get added to some of their friends lists. Before you know it, you'll get whispers every time you log on, asking you to come HA. And leaving PvP is pretty much the opposite. You just start saying no and people eventually don't ask you to come anymore. They shake their heads and tell their groups "she's not PvPing anymore". 
alluring athena
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Originally Posted by MisterB
Most, if not all, PvP players want to win. It's competition. They'll naturally discrimate based on who they think can help them achieve their goal. They expect you to demonstrate competence and experience. Discrimination does not equal elitism, and it is not "retarded" to discriminate. Please tell me you haven't tried the same argument in a job interview, i.e. "Employers are retarded and elitist; they won't hire me."
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However it is not an objective point of view in the majority of cases and people. You need to go no further than read numerous comments posted in this thread alone to see that many people are acting elitist and holier than thou.
Apollo Smile
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Originally Posted by MisterB
Most, if not all, PvP players want to win. It's competition. They'll naturally discrimate based on who they think can help them achieve their goal. They expect you to demonstrate competence and experience. Discrimination does not equal elitism, and it is not "retarded" to discriminate. Please tell me you haven't tried the same argument in a job interview, i.e. "Employers are retarded and elitist; they won't hire me."
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Gun Pierson
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Originally Posted by tehlemming
There is no personal incentive for the kind of handholding you seem to expect.
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I understand your comment though, because you're amateurs and not pro players like in Starcraft and Warcraft3 and other online games that has pro players where the playerbase looks up to. Those guys organise lessons and what not, often not for free though. Nevertheless their replays can be downloaded and several offered tutorial movies for free.
Inde
Actually Alluring, what MisterB said stands true. Though players are much more unprofessional in how they are expressing it, the same attitude is true in business as well:
"Most, if not all, PvP players want to win. It's competition. They'll naturally discrimate based on who they think can help them achieve their goal."
That's what the players are doing here, while it involves smack talk, insults and more every employer who is hiring a higher end employee has the same objective as the higher end PvP Guild. Competition. Hiring the best. Who can help them reach the goal. By not calling you back after that interview in business, by turning you down and saying they hired someone more qualified.... a company is doing the exact same thing as these players. Rejection.
Also the same, in regards to business, is the networking aspect. In these times, networking is the fastest and best way to get a job versus the method the OP and others are using of randomly approaching guilds all over the place.
Amazing. Guild Wars PvP has become the job market.
"Most, if not all, PvP players want to win. It's competition. They'll naturally discrimate based on who they think can help them achieve their goal."
That's what the players are doing here, while it involves smack talk, insults and more every employer who is hiring a higher end employee has the same objective as the higher end PvP Guild. Competition. Hiring the best. Who can help them reach the goal. By not calling you back after that interview in business, by turning you down and saying they hired someone more qualified.... a company is doing the exact same thing as these players. Rejection.
Also the same, in regards to business, is the networking aspect. In these times, networking is the fastest and best way to get a job versus the method the OP and others are using of randomly approaching guilds all over the place.
Amazing. Guild Wars PvP has become the job market.
Sarevok Thordin
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Originally Posted by tehlemming
There is no personal incentive for the kind of handholding you seem to expect.
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It's a really nasty cycle and breaking it is not easy, but what you get out of it is a better competitive base to play against. You don't want to be fighting the same people time and time again do you?
MisterB
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Originally Posted by Apollo Smile
As a person who is in charge of training new hires I can tell you we like fresh faces who are fast learners just as much.
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Apollo Smile
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Originally Posted by Inde
Actually Alluring, what MisterB said stands true. Though players are much more unprofessional in how they are expressing it, the same attitude is true in business as well:
"Most, if not all, PvP players want to win. It's competition. They'll naturally discrimate based on who they think can help them achieve their goal." That's what the players are doing here. While it involves smack talk, insults and more every employer who is hiring a higher end employee has the same objective as the higher end PvP Guild. Competition. Hiring the best. Who can help them reach the goal. By not calling you back after that interview in business, by turning you down and saying they hired someone more qualified.... a company is doing the exact same thing as these players. Rejection. Also the same, in regards to business, is the networking aspect. In these times, networking is the fastest and best way to get a job versus the method the OP and others are using of randomly approaching guilds all over the place. Amazing. Guild Wars PvP has become the job market. |
Inde
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Originally Posted by Apollo Smile
Yeah, too bad the outlook for this "job" is very poor.
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Crom The Pale
Something both PvE and PvP players appear to forget is that we learn via trial and error. Not a large number of PvE players walked into DoA and cleared it on there first attempt. The same can be said to any PvP arena, GvG tournament or HoH.
I am a great PvE player. Which means that I am great at PvE, nothing more nothing less.
I am a below average PvP player. Doesn't mean I don't know the builds or the skills or team work. What it means is this;
5000 hours spent playing, 4950 in PvE and 50 in PvP. Reverse the numbers and I would be a great PvP player. ( that and a high speed conection )
Both sides need to stop insulting each other and just play the game, this is about a game after all. I will say that PvP doesn't have a decent training ground, you can't really learn how to GvG in RA or Alliance battles. If you can't create your own guild or find one that doesn't mind a few losses while training your pretty much out of luck.
I am a great PvE player. Which means that I am great at PvE, nothing more nothing less.
I am a below average PvP player. Doesn't mean I don't know the builds or the skills or team work. What it means is this;
5000 hours spent playing, 4950 in PvE and 50 in PvP. Reverse the numbers and I would be a great PvP player. ( that and a high speed conection
)Both sides need to stop insulting each other and just play the game, this is about a game after all. I will say that PvP doesn't have a decent training ground, you can't really learn how to GvG in RA or Alliance battles. If you can't create your own guild or find one that doesn't mind a few losses while training your pretty much out of luck.
aubray1741
LOL! 
byteme!
Old arguments....
It ain't like PvP is gonna grow leaps and bounds anyways. Just let it die. It's inevitable unless we start getting a flood of fresh new blood. It's been said many many times in the past (3-4 years now?) so I don't suspect anything is gonna change.
It ain't like PvP is gonna grow leaps and bounds anyways. Just let it die. It's inevitable unless we start getting a flood of fresh new blood. It's been said many many times in the past (3-4 years now?) so I don't suspect anything is gonna change.
Gun Pierson
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Originally Posted by Inde
Amazing. Guild Wars PvP has become the job market.
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Difference is there are no thousands of candidates that are desperately looking for a job in the PvP department, they already have a much more attractive one, PvE. It pays worse than the PvP job, but you have to work less and the colleagues are not all career chasers
Don't take this post seriously, my previous two posts are what it's all about.
Esan
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Originally Posted by Gun Pierson
It pays worse as the PvP job
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alluring athena
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Originally Posted by Gun Pierson
Yes there is, to make the game or format popular. A real competitor wants to have decent and the best competition available. I'm sure there are players with talent in the large pool of pve players.
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Originally Posted by Gun Pierson
I understand your comment though, because you're amateurs and not pro players like in Starcraft and Warcraft3 and other online games that has pro players where the playerbase looks up to. Those guys organise lessons and what not, often not for free though. Nevertheless their replays can be downloaded and several offered tutorial movies for free.
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Angelina Collins
GW PvP is for retards, no skill involved what so ever. And don't let them fool you in saying that it takes tactics and skill and knowlegde, truely it's just like PvE, all it takes is grind, more grind, then more grind. All high level PvPers are nothing more then grinders, who play over and over and over again, sure after a while you will seen like your a pro, because you know every map like it's the back of your hand, but notice this, give them new skills and new maps, and you will see them start to suck, untill they grind the hell out of it again.
So if you like grinding, then you will like PvP, and you don't need a guild, or experience, you just need 8 to 12 deticated players, you know when to follow directions and when to be leaders, and then you need to start grinding, and before you know it, you will be the eletist guild. Period!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So if you like grinding, then you will like PvP, and you don't need a guild, or experience, you just need 8 to 12 deticated players, you know when to follow directions and when to be leaders, and then you need to start grinding, and before you know it, you will be the eletist guild. Period!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Selket
I have had a change of heart. I will help you, OP, I'll teach you everything you need to know.
IGN - Lemming Frenzyface
IGN - Lemming Frenzyface
Yichi
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Originally Posted by dansamy
Half the crap people are saying in this thread isn't even the truth. Nobody gives a crap about your ranks in RA/TA/HA. Social networking in GW will get you into higher quality PvP groups. I was, at best, an "average" player. I ran with "better than average" groups and players because of good social networking. It helped that I was competent enough to play what they asked me, and they didn't ask me to play things I'm not competent to play. (OMG! Balthazar help you if you ever asked me to play warrior!) Now, to get networked to some decent PvPers, you do have to go where PvPers play. And that ain't DoA. Your best bet is to start PuGging HA. Yes, you'll be in a lot of crappy groups for a while. Eventually, you'll meet people you liked playing with and they liked you. You'll build a friends list. (FYI, ditch your PvE friends off the list right now. They'll get over it.) You'll get added to some of their friends lists. Before you know it, you'll get whispers every time you log on, asking you to come HA. And leaving PvP is pretty much the opposite. You just start saying no and people eventually don't ask you to come anymore. They shake their heads and tell their groups "she's not PvPing anymore".
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