Rant: What's with so many elitest PVP guilds?
Gun Pierson
Cale Roughstar
Quote:
GW PvP is for retards, no skill involved what so ever. And don't let them fool you in saying that it takes tactics and skill and knowlegde, truely it's just like PvE, all it takes is grind, more grind, then more grind. All high level PvPers are nothing more then grinders, who play over and over and over again, sure after a while you will seen like your a pro, because you know every map like it's the back of your hand, but notice this, give them new skills and new maps, and you will see them start to suck, untill they grind the hell out of it again.
So if you like grinding, then you will like PvP, and you don't need a guild, or experience, you just need 8 to 12 deticated players, you know when to follow directions and when to be leaders, and then you need to start grinding, and before you know it, you will be the eletist guild. Period!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
I lol'ed.
What bugs me is that most PvE'rs are just as stuck up about the whole bridge between PvE and PvP as the PvP'ers are (sometimes even more so). Many PvE'rs are under the misconception that people who are high end PvP never poke their noses beyond their guild halls or Hero's Ascent, but most of us PvE quite a lot. Now I do not pretend to call myself "high end" PvP, but I enjoy moderate success in HA and GvG, and that accounts for only 40% of my time in GW. The rest is spent in the wonderful and magical place of PvE.
Now, it would be wonderful to see the newbies flocking to HA in droves, willing and eager to learn, with the people there to teach them. But the problem is, that it is just not feasible. So many people (both PvP and PvE oriented) seem to have this HUGE sense of entitlement. Many PvE'ers come to HA with 0 fame, expecting to learn it as quickly as they learned to do UWSC, and then when they find out that it will take a little bit of time and a lot more effort, they start complaining about how PvP'ers are elitist jackasses. What is continually forgotten is that with few exceptions, ALL of us started out as PvE'ers, and we all had to make it the same way, grinding our brains out for that r3, building up a friends list, and joining a good guild. The last two are the most important, for without those, you can never hope to truly find yourself in the topmost echelons of PvP.
Yichi
Quote:
GW PvP is for retards, no skill involved what so ever. And don't let them fool you in saying that it takes tactics and skill and knowlegde, truely it's just like PvE, all it takes is grind, more grind, then more grind. All high level PvPers are nothing more then grinders, who play over and over and over again, sure after a while you will seen like your a pro, because you know every map like it's the back of your hand, but notice this, give them new skills and new maps, and you will see them start to suck, untill they grind the hell out of it again.
So if you like grinding, then you will like PvP, and you don't need a guild, or experience, you just need 8 to 12 deticated players, you know when to follow directions and when to be leaders, and then you need to start grinding, and before you know it, you will be the eletist guild. Period!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Sun Fired Blank
Most people think they can play above a certain rank, and they're constantly searching for ways to cheat the system or farm the rank because they think it will solve the rank discrimination problem. My observation is that most low ranked people are low ranked for a reason, and it's not because high ranked people discriminate against them. What really ends up happening is that you just have the shitty high ranked players playing with other shitty high ranked players. At any rate, it generally doesn't matter if a person is more technically proficient than their similarly ranked peers. Technical proficiency isn't what wins you the games that matter.
JoeKnowMo
Instead of telling them you're a "high-end pve player" you should just /zrank them.
Instant invite.
Instant invite.
Foe
Roll fire ele go to tombs, roll monk go to ra, play for a month. Get better. The retarded nature of this thread you've crafted will slowly become self evident. You just gotta suck it up and play. Turn your all chat off, be prepared to lose. Grow a pair.
Apollo Smile
I really hope Guild Wars 2 will close the gap between PVP and PVE. It would be nice to talk about Guild Wars without it turning into a childish pissing contest. I want to play Guild Wars, not Guild Wars (PvP) or Guild Wars (PvE).
Yichi
sadly its the community that will not allow this. Guildwars 1 was set up and released to be this way, yet failed epicly when more players wanted to farm/roleplay than move on to the endgame that the game was ment for, so the gave evolved into what it is now, which is a mess of shit.
Apollo Smile
Well it may never mesh together perfectly, but there is certainly some game mechanics that can help. The "World PvP" is certainly a nice start. I hope they have other ideas that can bring the two together.
Yichi
hopefully it is done better than they did AB. That i get the feeling was their BETA for world PvP.
Random Scrubinator
The problem with world PvP, if Alliance Battles are any indication, is that the groups are too large to coordinate, and individual groups will feel they have too little control of the outcome of the game to be rewarding.
Really, it would be nice if they just fork off HA into several additional locations, each with a rank requirement. Give minor rewards for reaching the HoH of these mini-HAs, and kick people out of an area once they reach a certain rank, sort of like the level-based arenas in prophecies. Keep the main HA as it is, without a rank cap.
With all the people claiming they could dominate PVP given a chance, these mini-HAs will be a little unbalanced in the beginning, but they'll gain enough ranks to be accepted into regular HA groups in a few days, thus reducing the difficulty curve a bit.
You don't even need to make new areas, unlike the zaishen menagerie. Just copy and paste HA, and maybe replace the Zaishen Guards with Ascalonian Farmers or something to indicate that you're in a low-rank zone. It's a lot more useful and easier to implement than anything in the 4th anniversary update, and current PVP players wouldn't care about rank being easier to attain, because they don't care about titles, and can find a group already, anyway
Really, it would be nice if they just fork off HA into several additional locations, each with a rank requirement. Give minor rewards for reaching the HoH of these mini-HAs, and kick people out of an area once they reach a certain rank, sort of like the level-based arenas in prophecies. Keep the main HA as it is, without a rank cap.
With all the people claiming they could dominate PVP given a chance, these mini-HAs will be a little unbalanced in the beginning, but they'll gain enough ranks to be accepted into regular HA groups in a few days, thus reducing the difficulty curve a bit.
You don't even need to make new areas, unlike the zaishen menagerie. Just copy and paste HA, and maybe replace the Zaishen Guards with Ascalonian Farmers or something to indicate that you're in a low-rank zone. It's a lot more useful and easier to implement than anything in the 4th anniversary update, and current PVP players wouldn't care about rank being easier to attain, because they don't care about titles, and can find a group already, anyway
Sarevok Thordin
Quote:
The problem with world PvP, if Alliance Battles are any indication, is that the groups are too large to coordinate, and individual groups will feel they have too little control of the outcome of the game to be rewarding.
Really, it would be nice if they just fork off HA into several additional locations, each with a rank requirement. Give minor rewards for reaching the HoH of these mini-HAs, and kick people out of an area once they reach a certain rank, sort of like the level-based arenas in prophecies. Keep the main HA as it is, without a rank cap. With all the people claiming they could dominate PVP given a chance, these mini-HAs will be a little unbalanced in the beginning, but they'll gain enough ranks to be accepted into regular HA groups in a few days, thus reducing the difficulty curve a bit. You don't even need to make new areas, unlike the zaishen menagerie. Just copy and paste HA, and maybe replace the Zaishen Guards with Ascalonian Farmers or something to indicate that you're in a low-rank zone. It's a lot more useful and easier to implement than anything in the 4th anniversary update, and current PVP players wouldn't care about rank being easier to attain, because they don't care about titles, and can find a group already, anyway |
Skyy High
Quote:
Rant: What's with so many retarded and elitest PVP guilds? |
Sounds like you're getting rejected from guilds that are interested in winning first and foremost, and not patient enough to learn with the people who are on the same level as you ("false advertisement"...).
Ensign
Let me share a little secret:
Talent is not important.
Talent is a cheap resource. There's lots of talent out there. You can find it anywhere. It's very common.
Here is what is rare:
1) Attitude
2) Effort
That's what I care about. That is what is rare. People who are looking to *get better as a player and contribute to a team* and *put forth the effort to do so* are solid gold. It doesn't even matter if they have talent. They'll inevitably get better and start working as a team. They're putting in the effort. And they beat up on everyone who doesn't.
What I got from the original post is that:
1) Your attitude is terrible
2) You are not even trying
As long as that is true, no player who has accomplished anything in this game will want to have anything to do with you. I don't care if you are the most talented person to ever grace Guild Wars. You are bad, and will continue to be bad unless you fix your approach.
Talent is not important.
Talent is a cheap resource. There's lots of talent out there. You can find it anywhere. It's very common.
Here is what is rare:
1) Attitude
2) Effort
That's what I care about. That is what is rare. People who are looking to *get better as a player and contribute to a team* and *put forth the effort to do so* are solid gold. It doesn't even matter if they have talent. They'll inevitably get better and start working as a team. They're putting in the effort. And they beat up on everyone who doesn't.
What I got from the original post is that:
1) Your attitude is terrible
2) You are not even trying
As long as that is true, no player who has accomplished anything in this game will want to have anything to do with you. I don't care if you are the most talented person to ever grace Guild Wars. You are bad, and will continue to be bad unless you fix your approach.
Burst Cancel
The carebear counterpart to "elitism" is a comically inflated sense of entitlement.
Competitive environments are generally meritocracies; "elitism", as an insult, doesn't make much sense in this context. When players are divided based on skill level, what makes you think that those with greater skill and experience would want to play with those with lesser skill and experience? A childhood of playing a sport doesn't qualify you to play in the pro leagues, but only morons would complain about that.
Players like to throw around the term "elitist" when they think they're being looked-down upon. The fact that other people think they're better than you is deeply offensive, so you lash out with this generic (and meaningless) barb. Here's the problem: they are better than you.
Competitive environments are generally meritocracies; "elitism", as an insult, doesn't make much sense in this context. When players are divided based on skill level, what makes you think that those with greater skill and experience would want to play with those with lesser skill and experience? A childhood of playing a sport doesn't qualify you to play in the pro leagues, but only morons would complain about that.
Players like to throw around the term "elitist" when they think they're being looked-down upon. The fact that other people think they're better than you is deeply offensive, so you lash out with this generic (and meaningless) barb. Here's the problem: they are better than you.
ShadowsRequiem
Ensign
You will always run into someone who *IS* better than you. Get over yourself.
Lycan Nibbler
Wish Swiftdeath
HAHAHA
Thats why the koreans won everything
Thats why the koreans won everything
pOmrAkkUn
Observer mode is your friend.
You can find some rank 1000++ guilds in observer mode. PM them to tell you want to GvG. They always want guests or members to do GvG daily.
You can find some rank 1000++ guilds in observer mode. PM them to tell you want to GvG. They always want guests or members to do GvG daily.
Wish Swiftdeath
Quote:
Observer mode is your friend.
You can find some rank 1000++ guilds in observer mode. PM them to tell you want to GvG. They always want guests or members to do GvG daily. |
None of the guilds i've been in actually did that, someone had to at the very least know and vouch for them.
tigros
Like everything in life, being successful in what you aim for it's largely depending on you.
I had the same issue like you 1 year ago, beating most of the PVE things and wanting to go into PVP. I poked my nose around arenas, pugged HA to rank 3 and then decided I wanted to go into GvG.
I found out about kiSu and I applied for them. I insisted a bit back then to get in, since they didn't really have an entry level guild (they created it for all those wanting to start off into GvG back then) and also since I'm Euro and they were mainly Americans.
I was waking up at 4-5am in the morning to play American times with them (and at 9am going to work) in order to be able to learn GvG (and this allowed me to play with a lot of top 50 players back then). I've practiced builds in RA, observed guild matches, played ladder matches, AT's and third party GvG competitions and in the end I can say I've made my way into GvG.
So it all depends on what you're trying to achieve, the amount of time and effort you're willing to put into this and if you have the will to fight against all the challenges you're faced with. Whining will not help you get there.
I had the same issue like you 1 year ago, beating most of the PVE things and wanting to go into PVP. I poked my nose around arenas, pugged HA to rank 3 and then decided I wanted to go into GvG.
I found out about kiSu and I applied for them. I insisted a bit back then to get in, since they didn't really have an entry level guild (they created it for all those wanting to start off into GvG back then) and also since I'm Euro and they were mainly Americans.
I was waking up at 4-5am in the morning to play American times with them (and at 9am going to work) in order to be able to learn GvG (and this allowed me to play with a lot of top 50 players back then). I've practiced builds in RA, observed guild matches, played ladder matches, AT's and third party GvG competitions and in the end I can say I've made my way into GvG.
So it all depends on what you're trying to achieve, the amount of time and effort you're willing to put into this and if you have the will to fight against all the challenges you're faced with. Whining will not help you get there.
pumpkin pie
KAIN FZ, don't think that when you join a good PvP guild that 100% of their guildies will be good at play and courteous as a human.
I've been guild hopping for ages trying to find a good PvP guild for ... ever... i finally gave up, and am now with a PvE guild that has good plan, we are going to move over to GW2 together as a guild hopefully we don't have to wait too long. lol people seems to not log on that much lately. including me. but everyone is still there. and still has plan elite missions.
that said, in a previous PvP Guild, i am not saying they are all bad, there are always one or 2 bad apples, unfortunately this one is a girl lol, she insults players who try to join our HA team whenever there we needed pugs, bad insults ... but the leader was great, the caller was great, except that girl who was rank 5 if I am not mistaken but she die all the time in HA and blames the monk or blame the lag. Leader will offer anyone a place in GvG or HA whenever theres an opening, you just got to be there. However, the bad apples are still there. So, what i am trying to say is you will never find a perfect PvP guild.
The best way is to work your way up, GET TO KNOW The regulars in HA and GvG, communication, make friends, that is the most important, it does not matter if you suck at the game. If you make friends they will show you how. all that matters is they like you.
very unfortunate, I don't like socializing especially with rude people with funny names :P
I've been guild hopping for ages trying to find a good PvP guild for ... ever... i finally gave up, and am now with a PvE guild that has good plan, we are going to move over to GW2 together as a guild hopefully we don't have to wait too long. lol people seems to not log on that much lately. including me. but everyone is still there. and still has plan elite missions.
that said, in a previous PvP Guild, i am not saying they are all bad, there are always one or 2 bad apples, unfortunately this one is a girl lol, she insults players who try to join our HA team whenever there we needed pugs, bad insults ... but the leader was great, the caller was great, except that girl who was rank 5 if I am not mistaken but she die all the time in HA and blames the monk or blame the lag. Leader will offer anyone a place in GvG or HA whenever theres an opening, you just got to be there. However, the bad apples are still there. So, what i am trying to say is you will never find a perfect PvP guild.
The best way is to work your way up, GET TO KNOW The regulars in HA and GvG, communication, make friends, that is the most important, it does not matter if you suck at the game. If you make friends they will show you how. all that matters is they like you.
very unfortunate, I don't like socializing especially with rude people with funny names :P
Yarly
If you find it so hard to involve yourself in the PvP community, chances are you wouldn't like it anyway.
devils wraths
titles killied pvp.
omg hes rank 6 glad or whatever he must be great. that doesnt mean that at all.
anyone is as good as anyone in this game all you need to know is the maps an some various skills.
omg hes rank 6 glad or whatever he must be great. that doesnt mean that at all.
anyone is as good as anyone in this game all you need to know is the maps an some various skills.
Greedy Gus
PvP titles are bad not because they brought rank discrimination, but because they brought title-hunters who don't play for actual competition.
Raccoon
I've tried desperately to get into a HA guild to start working on my Hero title. But I don't have any ranks in it, and the only PVP title I have is Rank 2 gladiator.
But apparently that isn't good enough.
*sulk*
But apparently that isn't good enough.
*sulk*
dansamy
Quote:
I've tried desperately to get into a HA guild to start working on my Hero title. But I don't have any ranks in it, and the only PVP title I have is Rank 2 gladiator.
But apparently that isn't good enough. *sulk* |
And Ensign wins this thread. Talent doesn't mean diddly-squat. If you can shut up and listen long enough to learn what someone else is trying to tell you, you don't have to be talented. And if you want to get into the upper eschelons of PvP, be prepared for it to feel like a second job. A lot of them play for several hours a night.
Jeydra
Quote:
Let me share a little secret:
Talent is not important. Talent is a cheap resource. There's lots of talent out there. You can find it anywhere. It's very common. Here is what is rare: 1) Attitude 2) Effort That's what I care about. That is what is rare. People who are looking to *get better as a player and contribute to a team* and *put forth the effort to do so* are solid gold. It doesn't even matter if they have talent. They'll inevitably get better and start working as a team. They're putting in the effort. And they beat up on everyone who doesn't. What I got from the original post is that: 1) Your attitude is terrible 2) You are not even trying As long as that is true, no player who has accomplished anything in this game will want to have anything to do with you. I don't care if you are the most talented person to ever grace Guild Wars. You are bad, and will continue to be bad unless you fix your approach. |
And I agree completely as well with Sun Fired Blank above. Most low ranked people are low ranked for a reason - they aren't as good. While there are exceptions, there aren't many. Take me for example. Right now I'm a rank 5 Gladiator, soon to be rank 6 ... and I'll happily say that I'm a better player now than I was when I was rank 3 or 4, and agree that rank 9 Gladiators are probably better than me.
If you are unranked, it probably means you're bad. You might not notice it now, but if you persist and gain in knowledge you will almost certainly come to notice. I thought I was pretty damn good myself when I was rank 2 Gladiator. I thought all the people with higher rank than me simply played more and played longer. I thought I was as good as them, perhaps even better. I was completely wrong. It took a person who cared enough - and I am eternally grateful to him for that - to respond to my 1v1 challenges and spank me before I realized how much more I have to go. I've learned so much more about the game since then, but I still have a lot more to learn.
Here's what I suggest you do. Contrary to what you think there are guilds out there who'll accept new players. You're very unlikely to get into a high-ranked guild straight off the bat, but there should be lower-ranked ones who don't mind accepting you. Join those. Play as much as you can. But remember: listen to those more experienced than you. If you're new, almost everyone will be better than you. Swallow your pride and just soak in the experience. Ask the people you play with questions and ask their suggestions. Ask the people who beat you the same thing. Ask the people on obs who play the same role as you (frontline, dom Mes, etc) for what you should be doing. Build up a friend's list of people whom you can ask to guest and so teach you firsthand. Make it a point to learn, because if you don't, you won't get better ... and then eventually, ask a higher-ranked guild for a tryout.
It can be done if you try. If you prefer not to try ... then don't cry that you can't get into PvP.
EDIT: Just noticed you took what you said back on page 2 ... good for you! Hope do manage to play, get better, find a good guild and eventually someday we meet somewhere in the PvP world.
DreamWind
There have been some good suggestions in this thread (particularly from dansamy and ensign), but I'm not convinced it is that easy anymore. It used to be hard to find a decent GvG guild back when PvP was thriving...I couldn't imagine trying to find one today.
Back when I played I went the network route through HA. I built up a friendlist and eventually found a good guild that way and managed to make some friends I still talk to today. Today HA is all but dead. PvE and heroway is what thrives today. For the amount of work required to find a good guild today, I question whether it is even worth the time and effort anymore. This has always been a bit of a problem with Guild Wars, and is one of the reasons PvP has shrunk (alongside Anet's screwups).
Years ago I was a solid player who put a lot of effort and thought into the game, but even if I wanted to start PvP again today I wouldn't because I wouldn't want to go through the problem of finding people I enjoy playing with who can also fit my schedule of when I can play. Just one of the problems of an 8 man team game. The only way I would ever PvP again is if they allowed heroway sadly (even though it would be bad for PvP). But knowing Anet, I wouldn't doubt that would be in the future.
Back when I played I went the network route through HA. I built up a friendlist and eventually found a good guild that way and managed to make some friends I still talk to today. Today HA is all but dead. PvE and heroway is what thrives today. For the amount of work required to find a good guild today, I question whether it is even worth the time and effort anymore. This has always been a bit of a problem with Guild Wars, and is one of the reasons PvP has shrunk (alongside Anet's screwups).
Years ago I was a solid player who put a lot of effort and thought into the game, but even if I wanted to start PvP again today I wouldn't because I wouldn't want to go through the problem of finding people I enjoy playing with who can also fit my schedule of when I can play. Just one of the problems of an 8 man team game. The only way I would ever PvP again is if they allowed heroway sadly (even though it would be bad for PvP). But knowing Anet, I wouldn't doubt that would be in the future.
Still Number One
Quote:
Let me share a little secret:
Talent is not important. Talent is a cheap resource. There's lots of talent out there. You can find it anywhere. It's very common. Here is what is rare: 1) Attitude 2) Effort That's what I care about. That is what is rare. People who are looking to *get better as a player and contribute to a team* and *put forth the effort to do so* are solid gold. It doesn't even matter if they have talent. They'll inevitably get better and start working as a team. They're putting in the effort. And they beat up on everyone who doesn't. What I got from the original post is that: 1) Your attitude is terrible 2) You are not even trying As long as that is true, no player who has accomplished anything in this game will want to have anything to do with you. I don't care if you are the most talented person to ever grace Guild Wars. You are bad, and will continue to be bad unless you fix your approach. |
Skill is something that can be taught. You become a more skilled player (microing positioning, observing the field) when you gain more experience and learn from mistakes. The key is you have to actually learn from the mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes every single game. If you watch the #1 vs #2 guilds play, everyone on both teams will make mistakes. It happens. You have to learn to know what they are and work to fix them. Part of the problem is a lot of people don't realize they made the mistake, that is where having the attitude and effort comes in.
Attitude and Effort are things that can not be taught. Either you have them or you don't. Asking your guild mates for tips on improving is something more experienced players like to hear, because it means you are trying to get better and help the team. Guild Wars is not all about you, and people who put the guild above themselves are always liked more.
To get into a guild, a post earlier about social networking hit the nail on the head. You can join guilds without knowing anyone, but you are less likely to find a guild that meshes with you that way. I started out by sitting in Shing Jea Monastery and when I saw a PvX guild say they were planning on doing GvG, I pm'd him about it and started talking about how he planned on starting it up. Eventually I joined them and became the GvG leader of that guild. I made the builds, I set up a team, I called spikes and strategy. I didn't join a guild that was already established in GvG and demand I be treated on the same level as them. I started with other people of 0 experience and I learned how to play by guesting more experienced players and by obsing and listening to vent recordings.
Honestly GW pvp is similar to any other competitive event. To be a great football player you have to practice, work as a team, and study game film. To be good at GW pvp, you have to practice, work as a team, and study the meta and how other teams approach it. You have to have this type of effort to get anywhere. If you don't, stop complaining and go do something else.
This isn't Halo where you join a random social match with 7 other random players. You are part of a team in Guild Wars and you can not play without your team ready to play along with you.
Still Number One
Quote:
There have been some good suggestions in this thread (particularly from dansamy and ensign), but I'm not convinced it is that easy anymore. It used to be hard to find a decent GvG guild back when PvP was thriving...I couldn't imagine trying to find one today.
|
For a person just starting off, you have to realize you are going to join a guild with players who are bad. You don't magically jump into a rank 500 guild to start off. You start in a terrible guild that will lose 80% of its games. You learn the game, you get better as a guild, and you work your way from that 980 rating hole you dug and get yourself into the top 1k. Once you have played roughly 100-200 games, then you may be able to get yourself into a rank 700-800 guild. Then you have even more things to learn until you are capable of rank 500 and so on and so on.
You have to climb up the ladder without skipping any steps. If you try to skip any steps, chances are you will fall off that ladder (unless you are extremely acrobatic).
dansamy
Quote:
For the amount of work required to find a good guild today, I question whether it is even worth the time and effort anymore. This has always been a bit of a problem with Guild Wars, and is one of the reasons PvP has shrunk (alongside Anet's screwups).
Years ago I was a solid player who put a lot of effort and thought into the game, but even if I wanted to start PvP again today I wouldn't because I wouldn't want to go through the problem of finding people I enjoy playing with who can also fit my schedule of when I can play. Just one of the problems of an 8 man team game. |
House Silvermoon
Quote:
Let me share a little secret:
Talent is not important. Talent is a cheap resource. There's lots of talent out there. You can find it anywhere. It's very common. Here is what is rare: 1) Attitude 2) Effort That's what I care about. That is what is rare. People who are looking to *get better as a player and contribute to a team* and *put forth the effort to do so* are solid gold. It doesn't even matter if they have talent. They'll inevitably get better and start working as a team. They're putting in the effort. And they beat up on everyone who doesn't. What I got from the original post is that: 1) Your attitude is terrible 2) You are not even trying As long as that is true, no player who has accomplished anything in this game will want to have anything to do with you. I don't care if you are the most talented person to ever grace Guild Wars. You are bad, and will continue to be bad unless you fix your approach. |
Lishy
Quote:
EDIT: Just noticed you took what you said back on page 2 ... good for you! Hope do manage to play, get better, find a good guild and eventually someday we meet somewhere in the PvP world.
|
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I'm going to apologize. I've been having a very bad week and maybe I took it out on you guys? Sorry. I got impulsive again. I was frustrated. |