Maybe I should have put this in Sardelac, but it seemed to fit better in Riverside...
From last nights update:
"Zaishen Combat Quests are now repeatable."
Why just the PvP side? Why not make all three types repeatable? Why not include the Zaishen Quest and the Zaishen Bounty as repeatable? The PvP combat quests already have the most potential to gain the quickest amount of z-coins.
Would it create too much potential for abuse of the quests/bounties? Yes, it has already been demonstrated that the bounties can be run and the boss defeated easily solo, but the Missions can be more challenging. Would it really matter if my alliance gets a good group together and we go thru the Zaishen mission 3-4 times or until we get bored of it? It's basically the same as getting a PvP group assembled and run thru the Zaishen Combat several times.
I'm sure someone out there will say "lern to PvP", "QQ more", but I choose to be on the PvE side as a casual player, and I'm hoping to get my heavy equipment bag before the end of the summer. Having all as repeatable would help me get to that goal a bit quicker.
Thoughts?
Repeatable Zaishen Combat
micosay
Raccoon
It's harder to re-do the pvp quests over and over then it is do say kill the boss bounty over and over.
The pvp ones require you to win 3 or so times, which is hard because it's real people your up against. However, the Molatov Rocktail bounty for instance takes seconds. So the coins would lose all value.
The pvp ones require you to win 3 or so times, which is hard because it's real people your up against. However, the Molatov Rocktail bounty for instance takes seconds. So the coins would lose all value.
Kook~NBK~
Most PvE players have several characters that they can repeat the Z-quests on. That may be a part of the reasoning behind it. Besides, all this does is adds a convenience for PvPers: Before the update, they'd re-roll their PvP characters. Now, they don't have to do that.
Shadowhaze
I'm agreed with you that all of them should be repeatable. Either that or Anet should cut each quest to 1 per account per day, alter the coins, or something. (Yes, I know QQ about the grind.)
Little Wibblets
By my definition of the word, these are not repeatable. Meaning you can do them over and over whenever you want.
What they are doing is simply reissuing the quest again every so many days. Which means you can't keep doing them over and over on the same day. You can delay doing the quest and possibly let them pile up so to speak, but in general this is not what I call repeatable.
What they are doing is simply reissuing the quest again every so many days. Which means you can't keep doing them over and over on the same day. You can delay doing the quest and possibly let them pile up so to speak, but in general this is not what I call repeatable.
Improvavel
This is actually to balance PvE and PvP characters. You could use a single character slot to do any PvP quest any number of times, while the same character slot used for a PvE character would be able to do it only once.
PvE zaishen quests are different - a person with multiple PvE character will be able to do more of them compared to a person with fewer PvE characters, but at the cost of all time and in game money invested into them.
More - a person with multiple PvE characters has more needs than a a person with a single character.
If you look the recent changes made players with multiple PvE characters more "competitive" vs people with a single/few PvE characters. If you wish to view it from other angle, the recent changes make multiple PvE characters more appealing, something that wasn't very much appealing if you considered the time needed to "farm" all those reputation titles and the wisdom/treasure titles, the HoM and stuff like that.
PvE zaishen quests are different - a person with multiple PvE character will be able to do more of them compared to a person with fewer PvE characters, but at the cost of all time and in game money invested into them.
More - a person with multiple PvE characters has more needs than a a person with a single character.
If you look the recent changes made players with multiple PvE characters more "competitive" vs people with a single/few PvE characters. If you wish to view it from other angle, the recent changes make multiple PvE characters more appealing, something that wasn't very much appealing if you considered the time needed to "farm" all those reputation titles and the wisdom/treasure titles, the HoM and stuff like that.
IlikeGW
Because they're pushing PVP again, even though it has never worked. Notice the rewards are much higher as well. Anet doesn't learn from their mistakes.
crazybanshee
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Originally Posted by Little Wibblets
By my definition of the word, these are not repeatable. Meaning you can do them over and over whenever you want.
What they are doing is simply reissuing the quest again every so many days. Which means you can't keep doing them over and over on the same day. You can delay doing the quest and possibly let them pile up so to speak, but in general this is not what I call repeatable. |
Not true. If you already have, say, the ab quest in your log, and the ab quest comes up again, you will not be able to retake it on that character. So you can't end up with 3 copies of the quest, do it once, then turn in all 3. They made it repeatable now, so you don't have to reroll your pvp char to redo it.
Ate of DK
Allmost everyone I know was re-creating their PvP-character after completing the Zaishen quests. It's more about the Balthasar Faction than it is about the Zaishen Coins to be honest.
Take a very lowranked GvG smurf, put 8 experienced GvG players in it and win against noobs. You get the battle rewards + 9000 Faction for maximum 20min work. Then you redo the whole thing for a couple of hours.
I joined once and got 27K faction under 30 minutes of actual playing, ty Zaishen Keys!
Go to Jade Quarry with you Mo/P or bomber and you're pretty sure to win with several of these on your team. Last time the quest was available I won 22 out of 26 matches on the Kurzick side. Every 3 wins earned me another free 5000 faction from the quest. Good for working on my Kurzick-title.
Anet simply made a statement with this update, there was nothing wrong with re-creating characters. Some QQ-ing was going on in threads about it being "Cheating". Also heard that ingame. And now you can use your main for it and redo the PvP!-missions.
GuildWars is PvP. It's obvious that PvE players start QQ-ing again that missions are not repeatable. Were is my BALANCE UPDATE!?
Take a very lowranked GvG smurf, put 8 experienced GvG players in it and win against noobs. You get the battle rewards + 9000 Faction for maximum 20min work. Then you redo the whole thing for a couple of hours.
I joined once and got 27K faction under 30 minutes of actual playing, ty Zaishen Keys!
Go to Jade Quarry with you Mo/P or bomber and you're pretty sure to win with several of these on your team. Last time the quest was available I won 22 out of 26 matches on the Kurzick side. Every 3 wins earned me another free 5000 faction from the quest. Good for working on my Kurzick-title.
Anet simply made a statement with this update, there was nothing wrong with re-creating characters. Some QQ-ing was going on in threads about it being "Cheating". Also heard that ingame. And now you can use your main for it and redo the PvP!-missions.
GuildWars is PvP. It's obvious that PvE players start QQ-ing again that missions are not repeatable. Were is my BALANCE UPDATE!?
Alleji
The PvP quest was repeatable from the start: reroll a pvp char, do the quest, put gold/zcoins into storage, repeat. Anet simply made it easier.
Apollo Smile
God forbid the Zaishen, followers of Balthazar, favor PVP players. Even from a lore standpoint it makes sense.
Shadowfox1125
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Originally Posted by Alleji
The PvP quest was repeatable from the start: reroll a pvp char, do the quest, put gold/zcoins into storage, repeat. Anet simply made it easier.
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Shadowspawn X
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Originally Posted by IlikeGW
Notice the rewards are much higher as well. Anet doesn't learn from their mistakes.
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BenjZee
i was just thinking about this the other day...if not the pve quests why don't they just make the pvp one repeatable, saving alot time for re-rollers (especialyl cuz my pvp character holds items)...
Daesu
This is ok because every pvp quests would give a reward only when you win. If you lose, you get nothing as far as the pvp zquests are concerned. In every match, someone has to lose in order for someone else to win. This means, on average, you can take longer to complete it.
MirkoTeran
They should make repeatable either all or none of them. This is kind of silly.
Red Sonya
I agree it's lopsided to give PVP repeats and not the PVE side. I have to log out and log another PVE character back in then set them up with skills and then get to the mission area. Hell all the PVP people have to do is click on the area of battle and wallah they are battling and getting huge amounts of faction and zcoin awards.
Mordakai
Honestly?
They should UP the rewards, but make the Quests available ONCE per account.
After all, it shouldn't be about grind, it should be about having fun.
Right now, PvPers have a HUGE advantage to gain coins which are (mostly) used to buy PvE stuff. Add in the fact that you can buy most of those things with Faction anyway, and I agree there's an imbalance.
BUT, if the Bounty Hunter missions are made repeatable, people could be earning 1g (or more) per night! Hmmm, maybe this is a good idea after all.
I don't know how long Anet expects it to take to earn 15 zcoins, but it probably was longer than 2 weeks. Then again, the casual part of me says maybe it would be a good thing.
I'm on the fence I guess.
They should UP the rewards, but make the Quests available ONCE per account.
After all, it shouldn't be about grind, it should be about having fun.
Right now, PvPers have a HUGE advantage to gain coins which are (mostly) used to buy PvE stuff. Add in the fact that you can buy most of those things with Faction anyway, and I agree there's an imbalance.
BUT, if the Bounty Hunter missions are made repeatable, people could be earning 1g (or more) per night! Hmmm, maybe this is a good idea after all.
I don't know how long Anet expects it to take to earn 15 zcoins, but it probably was longer than 2 weeks. Then again, the casual part of me says maybe it would be a good thing.
I'm on the fence I guess.
Daesu
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Originally Posted by MirkoTeran
They should make repeatable either all or none of them. This is kind of silly.
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People with more playable characters need more bags, so they get to repeat it on each character. People with only 1 character do not need as many bags, giving them repeatable pve zquests that maybe easy and fast would only impact the economy since they would just be farming them to sell the bags (and the other rewards) that they dont need.
The bags themselves would go down in value with time as more people start having them anyway but it would not be right to turn the easy pve zquests into a farming exploit.
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Originally Posted by Mordakai
They should UP the rewards, but make the Quests available ONCE per account.
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Mordakai
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Originally Posted by Daesu
That would not be fair to people with more characters, since if they have an easy quest out like Molotov, they can just farm it with one character.
People with more playable characters need more bags, so they get to repeat it on each character. People with only 1 character do not need as many bags, giving them repeatable pve zquests that maybe easy and fast would only impact the economy since they would just be farming them to sell the bags (and the other rewards) that they dont need. The bags themselves would go down in value with time as more people start having them anyway but it would not be right to turn the easy pve zquests into a farming exploit. |
EDIT: and anyway, aren't the easy bounties already a farming exploit?
OH noes, now we could actually get an everlasting firecracker!
Daesu
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Originally Posted by Mordakai
Again, not sure how cheaper bags is a bad thing.
OH noes, now we could actually get an everlasting firecracker! |
But it is not just bags we are talking about, it is anything that can be bought with zcoins. While it can certainly feel good to make EVERYTHING cheaper, but I dont think that is a good thing for the economy in the end. Some luxury items should remain expensive.
Mordakai
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Originally Posted by Daesu
Like I said, over time, the bags themselves would drop in value when people start having them.
But it is not just bags we are talking about, it is anything that can be bought with zcoins. While it can certainly feel good to make EVERYTHING cheaper, but I dont think that is a good thing for the economy in the end. Some luxury items should remain expensive. |
A lockpick costs 1 silver zcoin & 50 g.
So, a silver zcoin is worth about 1,500 gold.
It should take less than a hour to earn a silver zcoin, honestly.
If some items need their zcoin price raised, I'm sure Anet can do that.
EDIT: OK< I'm a moron. I forgot a silver coin is only 50 copper.
God, I hate these exchange rates.
A better guide would be:
Small equip pack: 1 golden z coin, 100g OR
2,500 reg. gold.
So, you should be able to earn a GOLD zcoin in the same time you earn 2,500 gold.
Wow, the prices are already messed up.
I think more unique items need to be available for z coins, cause once you get the bags, there's really nothing else to buy. Who's going to spend 1,500 for Lockpicks, when killing a bounty gets you one for free? (Plus the gold and xp reward).
Johny bravo
I think people should just stop complaining. Every time A-net adds something, takes something away, buffs, nerfs, passes gas.... someone complains about something. I am primarily a PvE player but have had no problems rolling a PvP character to abuse the PvP z-quests (exception is GvG cause my guild doesn't really do that, but we could have if we chose to). I also had no problem doing the bounties on 7 of my PvE toons.
Stop complaining that the PvP players are getting all the love and just role a damn PvP toon, it's not that hard. It is a lot easier for a PvE player to role a PvP toon and do the challenges then it is for a PvP player to create a toon and get to the correct place for the bounty or mission.
Stop complaining that the PvP players are getting all the love and just role a damn PvP toon, it's not that hard. It is a lot easier for a PvE player to role a PvP toon and do the challenges then it is for a PvP player to create a toon and get to the correct place for the bounty or mission.
Daesu
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Originally Posted by Mordakai
Wow, the prices are already messed up.
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And who cares about lockpicks, you can get them from other players and at a cheaper price even before this update.
Mordakai
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Originally Posted by Daesu
Then they should lower the prices of the bags, not make every single item that can be bought by zcoins easily farmed to worthlessness!
And who cares about lockpicks, you can get them from other players and at a cheaper price even before this update. |
So, what are you worried about? Tome prices going down?
Again, I'm of the mindset that low prices = good for MOST players.
EDIT: ahh, zeishen keys. That's probably it. Yes, I predict Zeishen Keys will continue to drop in value, as they would have even before this update.
Alleji
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Originally Posted by Mordakai
EDIT: ahh, zeishen keys. That's probably it. Yes, I predict Zeishen Keys will continue to drop in value, as they would have even before this update.
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1 gold zcoin = 1 zkey = 1 ecto
15 gold zcoins = 20-slot bag = 75-100 ecto
Daesu
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Originally Posted by Mordakai
So, what are you worried about? Tome prices going down?
Again, I'm of the mindset that low prices = good for MOST players. EDIT: ahh, zeishen keys. That's probably it. Yes, I predict Zeishen Keys will continue to drop in value, as they would have even before this update. |
Zkeys would drop in prices even more, fewer people would even consider pvp, and everlasting crate would be dirt cheap and fireworks everywhere and everyday. Alcohol becomes almost free so everyone max drunkard too, similarly for sweet tooth. Passage scrolls to Urgoz and Deep and lockpicks become almost free so holding towns then becomes useless. Perfect salvage kit along with lockpicks become almost free so who cares about wisdom and treasure hunter.
Passage scrolls would be almost free, so favor the gods become useless. Summoning stones and zaishen tonic become almost free and everyone has maxed title on party animals.
While it is tempting to bring every prices almost free, it will certainly affect the economy in a negative way and change the game drastically. You have to justify then making all these items almost free and unlimited would definitely make the game better for everyone.
ANet can also fix ecto prices to 1gp and a level 5 noob just out of pre standing next to you, can afford FoW armor and there is nothing to strive for in this game. But I doubt that would make this a better game.
Teutonic Paladin
I feel like there's a serious overestimation in the difficulty of the PvE quests. I could kill Molotov in ~3 minutes in HM over and over if they were repeatable. I'm pretty sure this would stack up faster than just about anything other than the Hero Battle quest.
![Ec]-[oMaN](/static/static/../Img/avatar8384_2.gif){kind=avatar}
Ec]-[oMaN
Things like AB/JQ/Aspenwood are plagued with ridiculous 60+no opposing parties, and the time involved getting all those wins is dreadful. The only 3 things that make any real dent in being able to repeat in quick succession are the TA/GvG/HA/HB combat quests.
Arkantos
Even if they didn't make it repeatable, they have always been easily repeatable. All ANet is doing here is saving people from having to reroll PvP characters. Stop thinking they're favoring PvP players by doing this, they really aren't. They're making it a little more convenient for them, nothing more.
JASON626
I think pve quests being repaetable would lead to using whatever character that can run a mission or boss bounty abuse like 600/smites or perma sin. I know personally i'm in favor of fast z coins ratio just for heavy equipment pack. I think if the if the heavy equipment pack was reduced in price say to 7 gold coins it make to much more reasonable. Add more high end items in future like everlatings or new things to zcoins to keep people interested in the zaishen quests other than for heavy equipment pack and balth faction.
Shadowhaze
Making things more convient for other playing styles isn't favoring? What is then?
Anyhow, yeah...probbaly won't change so oh well.
Anyhow, yeah...probbaly won't change so oh well.
Arkantos
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Originally Posted by Shadowhaze
Making things more convient for other playing styles isn't favoring? What is then?
Anyhow, yeah...probbaly won't change so oh well. |
I don't see how ANet making a minor change for a little more convenience is favoring. Every time ANet does something for PvE or PvP players, the other players start bitching about ANet favoring the other side. The grass may seem greener on the other side, but it isn't. ANet isn't favoring PvP over PvE in this scenario, they're making a small change.
Fril Estelin
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Originally Posted by Arkantos
I don't see how ANet making a minor change for a little more convenience is favoring. Every time ANet does something for PvE or PvP players, the other players start bitching about ANet favoring the other side. The grass may seem greener on the other side, but it isn't. ANet isn't favoring PvP over PvE in this scenario, they're making a small change.
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Eddie Frenzy Spam
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Originally Posted by Red Sonya
I agree it's lopsided to give PVP repeats and not the PVE side. I have to log out and log another PVE character back in then set them up with skills and then get to the mission area. Hell all the PVP people have to do is click on the area of battle and wallah they are battling and getting huge amounts of faction and zcoin awards.
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The PvP'ers may get there a lot faster but once they're there then actually doing the quest requires A LOT more skill. Well...maybe excluding RA, FA and JQ.
Here's what I think:
1. Anet doesn't want people to farm the quests. Hence the 1 per character rule in the first place.
2. Anet also wants players to be happy.
3. Anet also lacks the technology/time to make the PvP Quests account wide (The only way to stop the rerolling) without making the PvE quests account wide.
So, since they can't stop the rerolling and repeating of the PvP quests, they've simply embraced it, made it more convenient and therefore make a lot of PvP'rs (myself included) happy =D
Also, I laughed very hard at the person who said PvP in this game has never worked and it was pointless for Anet to push PvP. PvP was and still is the best thing in this game and the Zaishen Quests for PvP are the best thing to come around in quite a while, especially for TA and HA, which were dying out.
Daesu
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Originally Posted by eddie the reaper
The PvP'ers may get there a lot faster but once they're there then actually doing the quest requires A LOT more skill. Well...maybe excluding RA, FA and JQ.
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You win sometimes and lose sometimes on average, and I would take a risk to say that it is far easier to kill Molotov than it is to beat the top guilds in GvG. One of them is alot easier to farm than the other since you get no coins if you lose. In order for you to win, some player out there has to lose.
Lykan
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Originally Posted by micosay
Maybe I should have put this in Sardelac, but it seemed to fit better in Riverside...
From last nights update: "Zaishen Combat Quests are now repeatable." Why just the PvP side? Why not make all three types repeatable? Why not include the Zaishen Quest and the Zaishen Bounty as repeatable? |
They want more people to play PvP.
Professor K
PVE side of the game dwarfs the amount of PVP players. This isn't rocket science, people.
Imaginos
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Originally Posted by Fril Estelin
Actually, one could see this slight "favoring" (not best word for that?) as a tactical means by Anet to push PvE players to try PvP, possibly making the PvP community slightly bigger. Linsey said in her Sanitarium interview that they wanted a "critical mass" and were also looking at more skins for weapons and armors (things PvE players may like). Not a bad thing if this is the truth.
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who gives a crap about unlocking some rare skin for PvP when you don't like and don't play pvp? The costs for unlocking them with this gambling house are ludicrous anyway..unlock 50 common before a rare then x rare before a ultra rare skin. LMAO!
Ec]-[oMaN
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Originally Posted by Imaginos
To myself and many other PvE players i know this is a critical miss and she won't be getting any sort of critical mass out of it.
who gives a crap about unlocking some rare skin for PvP when you don't like and don't play pvp? The costs for unlocking them with this gambling house are ludicrous anyway..unlock 50 common before a rare then x rare before a ultra rare skin. LMAO! |
More AT, time slots. Increased k value for Daily AT's, increased k value for normal ladder, and even this 14 day BS lowered in half so the lower end of the ladder r700+ guilds can easily recruit faster and partake in AT's or even find another Guild with less down time. Last but not least a damn skill update that moves in the right direction which hasn't happened in months and needs to keep steering in said direction.
Again though, the general theme around GW as of late. "Too little to late" and still so much to do. You won't appeal to the masses, through z coins and increased balth faction gain, when deterrents are still in place surrounding the upper tiered PvP in Guild Wars.