Update - Thursday, May 14
UnChosen
I seriously don't get why so many of the skills are nerfed for PvE...somehow a 15 sec recharge party heal and a smiting signet is overpowered there (and nearly every other nerf on that list). Am I missing something or is Anet somehow suggesting that SF and ROJ (as much as I love those skills) are less powerful than PwK and Cas Sig.
Hanging Man
haha @ aegis
thats one crazy adjustment
Woh was fine as it was but whatever
PnH knew it was gonna get something
I'd rather see a fix to spawning power or RoJ scatter
thats one crazy adjustment
Woh was fine as it was but whatever
PnH knew it was gonna get something
I'd rather see a fix to spawning power or RoJ scatter
DreamWind
I am going to give Anet a piece of advice.
Since it is clear that they are having trouble balancing their game properly, I think they should go with a new approach. The first idea is to not piss of PvE players. They should adopt a method of ONLY buffs in PvE (no nerfs). Problem solved. I honestly don't think 99% of the playerbase would care...they would probably like it mostly.
For PvP they should grab like the top 10-20 guilds and ask them for opinions. They can use that game experience with the information Anet has to make some educated but small balance tweaks. One of the things I hate is when complete skill change occurs (like Aegis). It is almost as if Anet said: ok this skill seems like a problem...so instead of logically thinking how we can solve the problem and improve the metagame overall, we will completely redo the skill to something else. The problem is this change can easily lead to unforeseen consequences (as Aegis likely will) that will wreck the game for months. The weirdest thing is, almost nobody was complaining about Aegis until the recent metas. It really shows how a large chain of events changes how powerful skills are even if the skills themselves aren't changed.
Anet has to think in terms of big picture...not huge nerfs and buffs to certain skills given the current climate. Big picture balance is something Anet does not seem to have...which is sad given the amount of time it took to release this update. It is CLEAR to me that Anet has bigger priorities than game balance, regardless of the PR lingo they spin on us. They didn't even give us REASONS for the changes (yet).
Of course...this has been clear to me for some time now that they have other priorities...I just think this update should make it clear to the rest of you. We have reduced Anet's updates to being defined as only good "relative to their other bad updates" which is just pathetic in my eyes.
Since it is clear that they are having trouble balancing their game properly, I think they should go with a new approach. The first idea is to not piss of PvE players. They should adopt a method of ONLY buffs in PvE (no nerfs). Problem solved. I honestly don't think 99% of the playerbase would care...they would probably like it mostly.
For PvP they should grab like the top 10-20 guilds and ask them for opinions. They can use that game experience with the information Anet has to make some educated but small balance tweaks. One of the things I hate is when complete skill change occurs (like Aegis). It is almost as if Anet said: ok this skill seems like a problem...so instead of logically thinking how we can solve the problem and improve the metagame overall, we will completely redo the skill to something else. The problem is this change can easily lead to unforeseen consequences (as Aegis likely will) that will wreck the game for months. The weirdest thing is, almost nobody was complaining about Aegis until the recent metas. It really shows how a large chain of events changes how powerful skills are even if the skills themselves aren't changed.
Anet has to think in terms of big picture...not huge nerfs and buffs to certain skills given the current climate. Big picture balance is something Anet does not seem to have...which is sad given the amount of time it took to release this update. It is CLEAR to me that Anet has bigger priorities than game balance, regardless of the PR lingo they spin on us. They didn't even give us REASONS for the changes (yet).
Of course...this has been clear to me for some time now that they have other priorities...I just think this update should make it clear to the rest of you. We have reduced Anet's updates to being defined as only good "relative to their other bad updates" which is just pathetic in my eyes.
Rocky Raccoon
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Originally Posted by DreamWind
I am going to give Anet a piece of advice.
Since it is clear that they are having trouble balancing their game properly, I think they should go with a new approach. The first idea is to not piss of PvE players. They should adopt a method of ONLY buffs in PvE (no nerfs). Problem solved. I honestly don't think 99% of the playerbase would care...they would probably like it mostly. For PvP they should grab like the top 10-20 guilds and ask them for opinions. They can use that game experience with the information Anet has to make some educated but small balance tweaks. One of the things I hate is when complete skill change occurs (like Aegis). It is almost as if Anet said: ok this skill seems like a problem...so instead of logically thinking how we can solve the problem and improve the metagame overall, we will completely redo the skill to something else. The problem is this change can easily lead to unforeseen consequences (as Aegis likely will) that will wreck the game for months. The weirdest thing is, almost nobody was complaining about Aegis until the recent metas. It really shows how a large chain of events changes how powerful skills are even if the skills themselves aren't changed. Anet has to think in terms of big picture...not huge nerfs and buffs to certain skills given the current climate. Big picture balance is something Anet does not seem to have...which is sad given the amount of time it took to release this update. It is CLEAR to me that Anet has bigger priorities than game balance, regardless of the PR lingo they spin on us. They didn't even give us REASONS for the changes (yet). Of course...this has been clear to me for some time now that they have other priorities...I just think this update should make it clear to the rest of you. We have reduced Anet's updates to being defined as only good "relative to their other bad updates" which is just pathetic in my eyes. |
EDIT: I play games for fun, so ANET can do what ever they want with skills, I will still play as long as I consider it fun. That doesn't mean I might not take a break from time to time, but if I am having fun I will return.
-Makai-
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Originally Posted by Martin Kerstein
I understand that some of you do not like specific changes or want changes to additional skills. I also encourage each and every one to first try the changes to see how it effects your personal gameplay.
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You guys may as well nerf splinter and a-rage and be done with it. It would save us Rits a lot of time wasted on actually trying something unique.
Yichi
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Originally Posted by Kain Fz
On the contrary, this slightly buffed Paragons. ["It's just a flesh wound!"] now replaces PnH for condition removal.
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Lishy
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Originally Posted by Yichi
No it doesn't.
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Compare 2 second recharge to 12 seconds in recharge.
That said, PnH is by no means a bad skill. And it removes hexes too.
"it's just a flesh wound" is simply just more spammable and easier to use in order to remove conditions though.
Yichi
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Originally Posted by Kain Fz
I would say it is.
Compare 2 second recharge to 12 seconds in recharge. That said, PnH is by no means a bad skill. And it removes hexes too. "it's just a flesh wound" is simply just more spammable and easier to use in order to remove conditions though. |
Lishy
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Originally Posted by Yichi
except the fact that no one in pvp runs gons anymore... PnH is still the more viable alternative.
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Yichi
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Originally Posted by Kain Fz
"it's just a flesh wound!" doesn't need investment in paragon attributes though
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Gun Pierson
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Originally Posted by DreamWind
I am going to give Anet a piece of advice.
Since it is clear that they are having trouble balancing their game properly, I think they should go with a new approach. The first idea is to not piss of PvE players. They should adopt a method of ONLY buffs in PvE (no nerfs). Problem solved. I honestly don't think 99% of the playerbase would care...they would probably like it mostly. For PvP they should grab like the top 10-20 guilds and ask them for opinions. They can use that game experience with the information Anet has to make some educated but small balance tweaks. One of the things I hate is when complete skill change occurs (like Aegis). It is almost as if Anet said: ok this skill seems like a problem...so instead of logically thinking how we can solve the problem and improve the metagame overall, we will completely redo the skill to something else. The problem is this change can easily lead to unforeseen consequences (as Aegis likely will) that will wreck the game for months. |
As for PvE, indeed don't piss off people with little but annoying nerfs like castigation signet. Small buffs once in a while bring happy faces and I understand if they need to step in if some skill is way overpowered, even for the power creep.
Underused skills and elite skills can be reworked to bring some new life into that aspect of the game without worrying too much of having drastic consequences in pvp play. I thought they made a step in the right direction when Ray and other skills were reworked.
Anyway, another point I have to agree on is that they indeed have other priotities. Like I said before, it comes down to not having enough recources again. That's not Linsey's or the others' fault, but the higher ups and NCSoft.
It came that far that I question the business model. Even though Garriot is 'controversial', he might have been telling the truth there. GW2 will follow the same model as it seems from the little info we have. If that's the case there's a chance history will repeat itself. At least it's a good thing Aion is a succes in Korea. Less skills in gw2 is something I don't like, but I start to realise it may be the only way.
HawkofStorms
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Originally Posted by Fay Vert
Surely you cannot deny that this update has been badly received? There are people who like aspects of this update, but so many more that are amazed by it's lack of quality. Expectation was very high, delivery was very low. |
A.net NEVER promised this as some sort of massive gamechanging update. Its the community's fault for going "oh there was no skill update last month, which means this one will be uber." We are the ones who created the high expectations for this update. I don't see why we are entitled to chew out A.net for failing to met the hype we caused for no reason.
Lishy
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Originally Posted by Yichi
requires a spec into Motivation line... now you are 4 speccing a monk to replace a skill that is still better? no thanks.
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Sifow Chan
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Originally Posted by Yichi
requires a spec into Motivation line... now you are 4 speccing a monk to replace a skill that is still better? no thanks.
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Plus it's good monks don't want to use it because it's the others professions faults that Paras are so low on the list. Don't need them causing more nerfs.
Gonzo_Neo
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Originally Posted by Martin Kerstein
I understand that some of you do not like specific changes or want changes to additional skills. I also encourage each and every one to first try the changes to see how it effects your personal gameplay.
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Ok i will wait to see the changes and how it effects my personal gameplay.........................oh wait, im a Paragon, im a forgotten nightfall profession, with 0 actual builds used in pvp, and only efective 1 used in PVE.
No sorry, this update dont change NOTHING of my personal gameplay, i had hopes that ANet will rechange Motivation in PVE to make it useful, but no, like always the Paragon only have Imbagon to play in PVE and nothing in PVP. But you see, is fun use the same build again, again, and again to try that the people catch you in her group, while monks have ( roj, hb, prot, ua etc.. ) or necros ( discord, mm, ss, etc...),etc...
And of course, you are a paragon, you are the worst profession to farm, of course....
Ok, i will wait to see the changes and how it effects my personal gameplay -_-
But well, this can be worse, i could be a super nerf Ritualist :S
PD: I dont know the german community, but the spanish dont seem very happy too
glacialphoenix
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Originally Posted by DreamWind
Since it is clear that they are having trouble balancing their game properly, I think they should go with a new approach. The first idea is to not piss of PvE players. They should adopt a method of ONLY buffs in PvE (no nerfs). Problem solved. I honestly don't think 99% of the playerbase would care...they would probably like it mostly.
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@Anet: That being said - prior to the PvE/PvP split, I could understand that any changes that affected my PvE game were due to balancing for PvP reasons. You nerf Skill X for PvP reasons, that's part and parcel of the whole thing. Not anymore. If the PvE/PvP skill split was supposed to pacify people who don't like having their skills hit for reasons not pertaining to them - it's not working if you don't make use of it. Right now, if nobody can see why you nerfed Skill X in PvE as well, that just makes people more upset, especially considering this update was much anticipated courtesy of the delay. (We'll have to wait for the comments for that one, I guess, but 'til then...)
Sifow Chan
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Originally Posted by Gonzo_Neo
But well, this can be worse, i could be a super nerf Ritualist :S
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GourangaPizza
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Originally Posted by FengShuiDove
Please do not feel obligated to nerf Shadow Form and Ray of Judgment because people on these boards don't like mere mortals being able to complete harder areas or farm effectively.
Please beat /Me Distortion with a bat and leave it for dead on the side of the road. |
Distortion is powerful but not overpowered. If it bothers you that much bring Magebane Shot or better still a mesmer.
Regulus X
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Originally Posted by GourangaPizza
What? There is some serious issues going on when Ursan is nerfed whilst the more powerful SF remains intact.
Distortion is powerful but not overpowered. If it bothers you that much bring Magebane Shot or better still a mesmer. |
I don't know about ya'll, but with this kind of reasoning, we might as well bring back everything that once was overpowered and tell them to use moar block/hex-condition removal and less damage. Monks should FLOOD their bar with stances and hex-removal... Screw Healing! MOAR BLOCK/ANTI-HEX GOGOGO!
/endsarcasm
Wish Swiftdeath
Distortion isn't the problem mindless blast is the problem.
The update overall wasn't THAT bad as some of you are making out, just needed more changes.
The update overall wasn't THAT bad as some of you are making out, just needed more changes.
Cab Tastic
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Originally Posted by HawkofStorms
The thing is.... A.net NEVER hyped this update. It was never supposed to be amazing, just an average skill update. Expectations were high only to certain people (those who care about high end PvP and read the boards, 90% of casual players don't care) and we made those expectations.
A.net NEVER promised this as some sort of massive gamechanging update. Its the community's fault for going "oh there was no skill update last month, which means this one will be uber." We are the ones who created the high expectations for this update. I don't see why we are entitled to chew out A.net for failing to met the hype we caused for no reason. |
I don't know how much you are expected to accomplish in TWO MONTHS at your job but for most people I imagine it's quite a bit.
This game is Anet's livelihood and we as their customers support that livelihood. We expect more given the time this update took.
Wish Swiftdeath
Yes, they could have done alot more work, EVEN in the one month they had...
All the top end PvP'ers knew 90% of the update before it was released considering they have access to the forum.
All the top end PvP'ers knew 90% of the update before it was released considering they have access to the forum.
Fril Estelin
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Originally Posted by HawkofStorms
The thing is.... A.net NEVER hyped this update. It was never supposed to be amazing, just an average skill update. Expectations were high only to certain people (those who care about high end PvP and read the boards, 90% of casual players don't care) and we made those expectations.
A.net NEVER promised this as some sort of massive gamechanging update. Its the community's fault for going "oh there was no skill update last month, which means this one will be uber." We are the ones who created the high expectations for this update. I don't see why we are entitled to chew out A.net for failing to met the hype we caused for no reason. |
I'm no PvPer but I feel that this side of the game is treated by Anet in a way proprotionnate to the size of its population (10%) while it's a part of the game extremely heavily reliant on skill update (they don't have zones to explore, lots of monsters to kill,etc.). As much as I'd like to get into PvP (learning curve FTL), I must admit that Anet is not helping here.
Shadowmere
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Originally Posted by Gonzo_Neo
Ok i will wait to see the changes and how it effects my personal gameplay.........................oh wait, im a Paragon, im a forgotten nightfall profession, with 0 actual builds used in pvp, and only efective 1 used in PVE.
No sorry, this update dont change NOTHING of my personal gameplay, i had hopes that ANet will rechange Motivation in PVE to make it useful, but no, like always the Paragon only have Imbagon to play in PVE and nothing in PVP. But you see, is fun use the same build again, again, and again to try that the people catch you in her group, while monks have ( roj, hb, prot, ua etc.. ) or necros ( discord, mm, ss, etc...),etc... And of course, you are a paragon, you are the worst profession to farm, of course.... Ok, i will wait to see the changes and how it effects my personal gameplay -_- But well, this can be worse, i could be a super nerf Ritualist :S |
honestly paras and rits are very much in the same boat, i'd say para's have a slight edge on rits due to imbagon being something that's useful in all pve areas...something rits just don't have.
please please please please anet i'm begging you! give some love to the rits and paras and for the love of all that's holy stop hitting them when they're down with these pointless nerfs to their few still useful skills! (of course looking at the PwK nerf here)
another thing that confused me with the update was the Keen Arrow nerf...it can be a super-crit with a bow which is quite sexy but still...you need a sin primary or someone using "Go for the eyes!" for it to trigger even remotely reliably. I guess what I want to know with that one is, why? (more specifically why for both pvp and pve?)
But yeah overall on the update...idk a lot of nerfs, nothing too bad from my point of view (except PwK) but just leaves me confused mostly...
zwei2stein
Can we please have PvP aegis in PvE?
And while you are at it, i would like PvP Chilling Victory in PvE too.
And while you are at it, i would like PvP Chilling Victory in PvE too.
Arduin
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Originally Posted by Fril Estelin
We have to be fair here: in April the PvErs got a lot of new things (of course PvPers also got zquests and they also PvE), it was a massive update which apparently got a lot of positive feedback; no skill update in April but rather in May, so you'd expect it to be "good" and relatively "big" (and I thought it'd somewhat be akin to the April update for PvPers), but it's a rather average or even "meh" update.
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People who were expecting this PvP update to be 'big' needs to get a reality check. I'd suspect a bigger PvP update in the next month.
Ferminator
Tryptophan Signet: yay, unconditional, unremoveable, aoe, attack speed and movement reduction at range w00t.
Summon Spirits: spirit spammers FTW!
Summon Spirits: spirit spammers FTW!
Eduhard
Making the new Aegis useful is going to be a challenge, maybe there's no way we can use it xD. Why not just delete the skill?
Let's see, the most we can do...:
Five seconds (4.932s) of protection every 20 secs, with 20% chance of a ~15s recharge, at 15 energy (Mantra of Recovery + Aegis (PvP))...
oh well... 8-)
Let's see, the most we can do...:
Five seconds (4.932s) of protection every 20 secs, with 20% chance of a ~15s recharge, at 15 energy (Mantra of Recovery + Aegis (PvP))...
oh well... 8-)
trialist
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Originally Posted by Martin Kerstein
Let me tell you a little bit about "process":
Skill changes are discussed. Skill changes need to be approved. Changes need to be written up, reviewed, then send off to localization. Person who writes the reasoning for changes can't do it because he is completely busy with working for the aforementioned internal product review. Review is ended – Person now has time to write down the Dev Update. Dev Update needs to be reviewed and then sent off to localization. Localization people actually have a weekend too…. I hope this sheds a little bit more light on why the Dev Update is delayed. |
1. You discuss skill changes. What actually happens here? If you guys are already discussing skill changes along with the reasons for them here and have made decisions for certain skills to be changed, why the hell does it need to be approved by someone else then? Why bother discussing skill changes if you are going to let someone else who might not even have been in the discussion approve the changes???
2. Couldn't the write up for the changes be done during the skill discussion? What, you guys only talk during the discussion? Nothing is written down?
3. As for the reasoning for changes, again, same as above, write it down during the discussion duh.
For the review and localization parts, i could probably understand, but the above really has me scratching my head. No wonder the skill updates are of such varying quality.
Crimso
If that really is true, who's the person who approves of it? I mean if several people have come to a compromise about whether a skill change is valid or not, wouldn't sending to to a single person to distinguish whether the change should be allowed be redundant.
There may as well be no discussion and one person should just send ideas to the person who approves of it.
There may as well be no discussion and one person should just send ideas to the person who approves of it.
Lyphen
The way things are going, they obviously just ask a random person to vet it.
Dacomos
as faf as im reading, paragon wasnt touched by this update.
Well, i would like to know just one thing.
Will ANET change anything in Paragon skills till GW2 release?
If balancing <10 skills took them 2 months, well, they wont make it in 1,5 year to do something with paragon. Not enough time for them imo.
With all the players suggestions, all those changes could be done in 1 DAY by 1 PERSON.
I was playing para becouse i hoped that they will change something in future. Can i still have hope?
Well, i would like to know just one thing.
Will ANET change anything in Paragon skills till GW2 release?
If balancing <10 skills took them 2 months, well, they wont make it in 1,5 year to do something with paragon. Not enough time for them imo.
With all the players suggestions, all those changes could be done in 1 DAY by 1 PERSON.
I was playing para becouse i hoped that they will change something in future. Can i still have hope?
manager
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Originally Posted by trialist
You know, i have been reading through this a few times and i just can't understand why you guys do things that way.
1. You discuss skill changes. What actually happens here? If you guys are already discussing skill changes along with the reasons for them here and have made decisions for certain skills to be changed, why the hell does it need to be approved by someone else then? Why bother discussing skill changes if you are going to let someone else who might not even have been in the discussion approve the changes??? 2. Couldn't the write up for the changes be done during the skill discussion? What, you guys only talk during the discussion? Nothing is written down? 3. As for the reasoning for changes, again, same as above, write it down during the discussion duh. For the review and localization parts, i could probably understand, but the above really has me scratching my head. No wonder the skill updates are of such varying quality. |
Given your lack of knowledge about that decision process, I'm going to guess that none of you ever worked in a corporate environment, right? Or hell, even ever worked before, am i rite?
Because if you have, you're either trolling or being stupid. Or maybe both.
Apollo Smile
Basically. Where I work you can't as much as scratch your ass without getting approval first.
trialist
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Originally Posted by manager
(This also addresses the reply below this quote)
Given your lack of knowledge about that decision process, I'm going to guess that none of you ever worked in a corporate environment, right? Or hell, even ever worked before, am i rite? Because if you have, you're either trolling or being stupid. Or maybe both. |
If i see stupid red tape, I'm going to question stupid red tape, corporate or not. Simple as that.
Heh, i'll take Apollo Smile's answer over yours, mr high and mighty.
Shadowhaze
WoH and Aegis make me a sad panda...but oh well I guess.
Regulus X
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Originally Posted by Wish Swiftdeath
Distortion isn't the problem mindless blast is the problem.
The update overall wasn't THAT bad as some of you are making out, just needed more changes. |
Killing off various builds without offering up new skill functionalities, ruining aegis and decimally buffing useless skills at random isn't THAT BAD? I'd DREAD to unveil what 'bad' REALLY is!
Archaic
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Originally Posted by Cab Tastic
The thing is, given the amount of potential improvement there was with the skills massively under utilized in this game I understand the communities frustration with this update.
I don't know how much you are expected to accomplish in TWO MONTHS at your job but for most people I imagine it's quite a bit. This game is Anet's livelihood and we as their customers support that livelihood. We expect more given the time this update took. |
In summary, the contents of this build were only worked on since the April update went live, to this latest update. It was not two months.
More like a little over two weeks.
Longasc
The problem is that all the "nerf distortion so not even Elementalists can use it" mentality is powered by the desire that melee classes can autoattack everything to death. :P
Vulkanyaz
Heh, time to uninstall Guild Wars. It was fun while it lasted.