Update - Thursday, May 14

You know, I hear this used frequently, and it's just not true. There are dozens of reasons people aren't complaining here. Maybe they don't even know the site exists, maybe they silently walked away from GW after yet another update they didn't like. Stop throwing out this rehashed bs that the only reason people aren't complaining is that they like the changes.

Let me tell you a little bit about "process":
Skill changes are discussed.
Skill changes need to be approved.
Changes need to be written up, reviewed, then send off to localization.
Person who writes the reasoning for changes can't do it because he is completely busy with working for the aforementioned internal product review.
Review is ended – Person now has time to write down the Dev Update.
Dev Update needs to be reviewed and then sent off to localization.
Localization people actually have a weekend too….
I hope this sheds a little bit more light on why the Dev Update is delayed.

You might want to be careful with conclusions like this. I just finished checking the German boards for example, and the feedback there is quite different from the one here. Also, there is not "THE Community". 100 players have hundred different opinions on how they want to see changes in the game. Also, approx. 90% of the playerbase of any MMO usually never even post or read boards. And yes, we do actually read your feedback threads and share your opinions with the Devs.
I understand that some of you do not like specific changes or want changes to additional skills. I also encourage each and every one to first try the changes to see how it effects your personal gameplay.

No common sense allowed on here!

Or maybe they are... Playing the game and enjoying themselves. I hate to break it to ya' chief, but not everyone is a bitter forum mongler eagerly waiting for something to go wrong so they can pick at it like diseased vultures.

Because yet again, another PvP'r makes the common PvE mistake. THE FOES IN PVE USE THE SAME SKILLS, if you nerf them for PvE, you make those foes even easier to kill... yet again, especially when those skills were not even a problem in PvE in the RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing first place.

Hey now, even diseased vultures have feelings! (EDIT-> @Apollo)

worst update ever seen.
im so sad that making this changes took 2 months i can only say all the anet stuff are a bunch of lazy tards with no idea about pvp.
lol i wont discuss about the nerfing of each skill i disagree like pnh but cuz i would be here writing and flaming anets failure all the night so i better ask: why in all updates 25 nerfs while only 1 buff? why are there 250+`skills in this game that serves no purpose and cannot be used cuz they actually do nothing but crap?

Every freakin' skill update since freakin' December 2008 has been a nerf bat that opened up NOTHING new to the game. 5 months of total bullshit fed to us without a spec of creativity. I recommend that the team begins looking at underused skills that could bring in fresh life to the game. Skill balances are the be all end all refreshment to bring people back and start playing again. But lately, all we've seen are a few nerfs here, a few nerfs here, and a rare underbuff here.

We have a similar process for write-ups at my place of business (can't tell you what it is, but let's say it involves....publishing/editing).

The whole process takes maybe.....half an afternoon. Maybe a full 6 hours, if our bosses/review board are feeling lazy. Oh, and we take full weekends off too. Of course our work doesn't involve near as much coding, but printing and systems work.

So....I'm sure you can understand my reasoning behind what I'm about to say.

Wtf? Seriously? 2 months to work on this, the info gets leaked (and the Well idea was decent if it had stayed in PvE), the skill update is poorly done at best (no reworking of skills? just GvG/HA balancing? really?), and then you try to excuse away the fact that your dev update isn't done. Well, I think it's bullshit. At my job, my bosses wouldn't put up with that kind of shit.

Oh, and the leaks are getting bad now. Almost every month. You guys need to clamp down or there's going to be a lawsuit.

Simple question:
What are the things that are wrong with this update, just a small/big (whatever you like) list plz, no flame/QQ.
Simple question=simple answer.. Lets see.

Many of us were expecting this skill update to contain some skill reworking, improvement of bad elites, fixing broken skills, etc.

And basically they just killed all the incredibly overpowered balancedway stuff in GvG/HA. With the exception of making SoH viable for PvE and randomly improving 2 illusion magic skills (but not enough to make them useful).

It wasn't a bad update. I just think that many of us expected something that reflected effort and time. Reactionary updates are typically a disappointment (as far as I can tell on the fan sites, etc.)

I think its somewhat ok update. It was scaling things down to normal level with out making some pure useless. Still more skills need looked at that have been mentioned.

Aegis is the one that has me puzzled. Glyph of renewal aegis, 40% recharge weapon set idk how it will be used tbh.

PwK i thought was fine b4. Its been nerfed twice now right.

illusionary weaponry might be a pain in smaller arenas like ra. it can't be blocked if i remember right. kinda like hundred blades.

The uproar is always from the same group of people, if you follow Guru at all you know the names. I also find it ironic that those who claim they don't play anymore always find time to complain about something that shouldn't have any affect on them.

I am impressed by this - I work in this job for more than 3 years now, and have always worked very close especially with the localisation during my time at NCsoft Europe, and the normal turn around time for any localisation is 24 hours - so your 6 hours are really impressive.


This is a general misconception. We did not work for 2 months on this update. As we stated before our big April update was released - there was no time for skill updates as everybody was focused on releasing the content update.

And I am not actually "excusing" for anything here - I just tell you the reasoning why the Dev Update will be released after the update this time.

I agree.

Well, at least we agree on one thing lol.

In my profession, 6 hours isn't great for a turnaround like that. But like I said earlier, we deal with a lot less coding and red-tape than I'm sure you do. And our review board has been known to make mistakes (but I guess that could be said of yours too, huh?).

But again, it's basically all we do and we probably have a lot more staff than you guys do. Last I heard, you guys only have like 6-8 people doing the job. We have at least a dozen at all times.

I'm still disappointed in this update. I just have a hard time understanding who thought these skill updates were even a good idea. Lackluster, I think would be an appropriate word.

EDIT: Oh, and by 2 months, I meant that you had two months that you COULD have worked on the skills. I think we all knew that you guys weren't working on this for 2 months, but the time was there.

My impression was that the germans had similar issues with the update as the people on gwguru (I checked gw-tactics and wartower).

From what you were saying I think we can agree that both the devs and the players are not satisfied with the number of skill changes yet.
So I think it'd be great to know whether you're going to update on schedule next time and what kind of changes we can expect?
As you certainly know there has been high demand for a change on some classes/attributes (Paragons/Ritualists/Beast Mastery/Blood Magic).
Are you going to address these issues?

I'd love to try the Ritualist changes!

Oh wait...

You must mean the portion of the PvE crowd who doesn't care what Anet does to GW as long as they leave their RoJ/VSF/whatever's flavor of the month farming alone. Of course they're not complaining. :P

Blood magic was actually supposed to be addressed (according to the leak), but it was a poor idea because of how it would have affected GvG & HA. I imagine they'll get to blood magic next update (hopefully with the wells idea intact for PvE), they just need to figure out a way to make it viable w/o destroying it or making it overpowered.

Lol, true tho.

PvErs are heavily split here, the people WITH the God Mode button who don't want to lose it, and those without who want it gone.

Actually most buisnesses use the equation for every person that has a complaint there are 12 others that are unsatisfied and yet do not say anything.
That being said, the way Anet is treating this game with lack of resources, and unwillingness to address game-play issues is confusing. While some of the things put into the April update look to be just "smoke and mirrors". There are many people looking forward to gw2 but the precedent Anet is setting with gw1 does not make gw2 very appetizing to me. Jumping ship from their broken moneymaker to make a new unproven game really does not make alot of sense. Theres another title that has been out 10+years, has a sequel and yet is still a top title. Yes its a different buisness model, but players are still buying GW so they are still making quite a bit of profit. I am no expert and this is just my opinion, it just seems that Anet is pushing its elder players to the side with every update.

what is it that you (no one adressed personally) dislike so much about the update. warriors can't kill anyone by spamming c+space+1+2+3, woh needs more skill than spamming, and pnh has a longer recast (beside the other nerfs). if you run a hex-build, you have a me/x with humsig and mantra, if you miss aegis so much take more defensive midliners/skills,... .

some of the skills require now more thinking before activation and that's a good thing.

No Excuse. Only Blind people didn't see that RoJ and SF start to broken game month ago.
Two more weeks for what? Nerf ranger hunter's shot? Nerf kaholay for discord?sab? ( i think so).

I never see a skill update that made all GwGuru Users Agree.
In this case against Anet.


A unpleasant 3 years and half Guild Wars player

[QUOTE=Toxic OnyX;4637254]Your kidding right? please tell me your only joking with this

BUFF = Skill has been balanced in a positive way

So please explain how the change from "will block 50% of attacks for xx seconds" to "For 1..3 seconds, hostile spells and attacks against 'target other ally' fail." is a buff exactly?

Lets see how this will now work... GvG team prompts a fake spike on a target, so prot monk twitches with Aegis 3sec prot and a downtime of 30 seconds, in the meanwhile the opposing team switch targets and systematically spikes down 2 others... Aegis is now recharged, I fail to see the buff in this skill tbh


Ok, I'll explain
Active play gets encouraged with the recent change on Aegis wich I consider as a buff. No more afk monks for 11seconds anymore and u can't get hit so whats blocking vs mini sf?

For the fake spike:u have to use it correctly as i said before (not just waste it ), u can use it for the flagger so he/she can do the leeroy move as example.
And stuff like enchantstrips won't do any harm+ tell me how u preprot somebody with the old aegis?

Heaven knows I've criticized Anet's balance updates in the past. I could easily write several pages on the subject that no one would read.

This isn't the magical update that makes everything perfect, but expecting one is just moronic. This update certainly isn't the worst that we've had. I think it could have been better. For the time it took I think it should have been better.

However:
A lot of us, even us general asshats on the internet, are reserving our criticism until we see how it plays out.

Wait a minute now, I'm with Einherj3r. I just got back from the German boards and they have the same complaints as over here. Along with the +1 spam on GW being DEAD, complaints about Izzy, and Anet/update failing. There's a bit more positive comments mixed in, a lot over there think this update is okay but the weeks of delay left a bad taste with them. The number of players who have come out of the woodwork in this thread speak volumes. Of course, in terms of POLITENESS, the Germans could give a lot of users a few lessons over here.

Should be common sense people that if you want them to listen to us we should detail out the problems and any solutions you see rather then one-liners. The devs can't read everything but the more concise and detailed you are the better the reception they'll give your idea.

PwK is a negative change. Whispers doesn't seem to be handling the change well, and it's created slight energy issues on my survivor Rit (that I actually PLAY. No punchout for me)...

Question (to the NCSoft Representative): Did the people involved in the process of 'skill balancing' so happen to shedule it for 4:20pm? And did they have the slightest clue that nerfing Aegis the way they did (after many, MANY years of sustained consistency in functionality which most players favored) would generate a big, bold "WTF?" (..hence the 4:20pm question) from the community? Show anyone in-game or on the forums the 'old' and 'new' Aegis and I guarantee you they'd pick OLD.

Furthermore, did they know that (in 4v4) LC was already WTF PWNing WoH and PnH pre-nerf already?!?! Only to nerf WoH/PnH to the dirt and merely Scathe Lingering Curse?!?! (..hence the 4:20 question).

My suggestion: At a MINIMUM, Lingering Curse - {5e/1s/10r/adjacent foes}.. or else {10e/2s/10r/nearby} to keep it aoe.

Now THAT's 'Balance!'

Also, Distortion was never addressed in this skill update. I highly reccomend it be submitted for review because it's being abused in almost every aspect of PvP! 75% block 60-80% of the time is OP'd and diminishes any/all melee efforts, forcing them to tab over to someone with less BLOCKFAG than that E/Me. Basically, don't even THINK of attacking the E/Me because it's FUTILE! If you do? You're wasting energy/adrenaline while the rest of the team (including the E/Me under attack) will WIPE you.

I don't play a main Rt, and I'm not sure what your Whispers is equipped with, but on a human N/Rt it works fine especially if you have a 40/40.

Even so... =\

SKILL UPDATE 5/14:

No time to sift thru QQs, anyone knows what changed?

Thanks.

Punishes people more when they report and nobody else does. Is the only effect I've heard.

@Arenanet
Ok. Here's my honest review after I gave it a little bit of time and analysis:

The buff to [Tryptophan Signet] is great. Will mesmers ever stop dominating the Vanguard line?
Fast cast only makes it better. My only wish is that it was Nearby instead of Adjacent.

As for the Assassin's shadowstep buffs, those are also great. If you've ever played Super Smash Bros. before, I'm sure you're familiar with the term "Mind Games"?
We're one step closer to that in Guild Wars. Problem? Finding a way to make it more efficient in builds. Will surely be a fun toy in RA though.

[Mirror of Ice] needed the nerf.. But [Shatterstone] is better anyways.
The only problem is that there are not enough good hexes to take advantage of it..

[Steam] also needed a nerf. However, its lack of damage is kind of bad for PvE and it should of been a PvP only nerf...

[Illusionary Weaponry] is still useless. Nuff' said. Why not just change its overall functionality or give it an IAS and armor bonus, or whatever? It would be an interesting idea to see Mesmers function in the frontline, and perhaps it may even become a meta. But don't just do useless updates to skills that need them. We all know mesmer lacks builds, and this skill can be a key to reviving them.

For [Melandru's Shot], once again, it sounds like it's a literal "dart board" nerf. If you can't come up with a good skill change, just leave it..
Melandru's Shot was one of the main reasons for a ranger in PvP and now it's killed -_-

With [Warrior's Endurance], I'm kind of neutral on its PvP nerf. I guess it is overpowered, even on paper. Just leave it the way it is in PvE since it is an amazingly fun toy and gives a LOT of variety in builds.

[Low Blow] is still meh. As long as it's adrenaline based, I can't say it'll have a place on my bar. It's just generally not worth it. Especially the condition needed for Cracked Armor.
I understand [Headbutt] -> [Low Blow] -> [Ear Bite] was designed to be a chain of skills, but with the 3 PvE skill limit, this skill just needs to be re-worked rather than messing with the damage counter.

[Elemental Lord] and [Summon Spirits] were some of the gems of this update.
Many rangers (and the low, LOW amount of ritualists) have trouble constantly transporting their spirits. The decrease in Summon Spirit's recharge helps a LOT. However, the problem still is that is that spirits are still useless in PvE and this is only good for specialized builds like EoE in 600 sparms. Problem is, those are played usually only by heroes.
As for [Elemental Lord], you just made an awesome skill even more awesome. Nice!

However, the nerf to [Castigation Signet] was unnecessary, and my experiences with its change proves like-so.
[Protective_Was_Kaolai] is in the same mess as Castigation Signet is. Unnecessary nerf for PvE, and truly looks like a "Dart Board" nerf.

[Strength of Honor] might see some usage in PvE now. Though the problem is that is is maintained and just not worth the damage. It should be re-worked, at best. But it's an improvement

[Fragility] being AoE is okay now. But it's still a very low tier skill. Problem is, if you buff its damage, it might be overpowered. At least it can be used with cryway now, instead of Mind Wrack. In fact, it's actually great for cryway!

The change to [Hunter's shot] is interesting. But the lack of +damage is really.. Boring.

To be honest, I'm quite pleased with the PnH and LC nerfs. Maybe they're still "The meta", but at least they're not so insanely overpowered as much.
On the contrary, this slightly buffed Paragons. ["It's just a flesh wound!"] now replaces PnH for condition removal.

Overall, it's still a bit unsatisfactory that we waited so long for... This.. Paragons and Dervishes still need to be re-worked, as well as buffed for PvE. And Ritualists DEFINITELY need a buff. With PwK killed, even in PvE, ritualists are useless and totally replaced by necromancers. Period. Spawning power is the main concern though, as it's still useless.
On a side note, spiders now grow in size. But does this mean if I charmed a level 20 dire spider, it wasn't the full size, but now I can raise it bigger? Whatever..
I'm glad you guys listened to us about storage and the merchant in the pvp areas of the game.


In conclusion, maybe people are overreacting a bit too much to this. However, make sure to attend the current needed buffs in guild wars next month!
Beast Mastery Attribute, Paragons, Ritualists all need a buff very badly!
Especially the Beast Mastery attribute, as with the new menagerie, it is the perfect opportunity!
Perhaps even make Beast Mastery have a use with other professions as well. It'd be very interesting to use pets more often.

Arenanet, please consider what I've said for the future. Just make sure next month's update attends the bigger problems of Guild Wars.

That means just leech and no one will report. Good update indeed.

If you're thinking E/Me x 3 and a monk, E/Me x 2, N/Any LC and Mo/Any, etc... that idea's already being executed in TA as we even SPEAK. It's called abuse, and that's what EVERY player intends on doing for their own personal gain. And as long as Anet continues to be unaware/apathetic/etc.. it will continue to blow other legitimate competitors out of the water with strain and anguish over 75% block with no consequence.

Maybe if we buy more facelifts and name-changes, they'll care enough.. (cuz they gittin' payed then..)

Please buff Spawning Power. I enjoyed the idea of the Wells buffs, please implement them in some way.

Please do not feel obligated to nerf Shadow Form and Ray of Judgment because people on these boards don't like mere mortals being able to complete harder areas or farm effectively.

Please beat /Me Distortion with a bat and leave it for dead on the side of the road.

Please continue to buff worthless elites in the future when time permits, as they've shaken up the meta-game a number of times now. Don't let the crying PvP players distract from the truth that they wanted a change in skill usage and they've gotten it a number of times. Realize instead that buffing crap elites has phased in new meta builds almost every time, and it's fun.

You're right, this isn't one of the worst updates, it's actually one of the better ones recently, which is quite sad.

Yes, PvPers wanted new good skills for a change in the meta. That doesn't mean they wanted overpowered skills to make a new lame meta. They aren't crying when they say they want newly buffed skills like warrior's endurance, lingering curses and peace and harmony to be nerfed, they merely want new balanced skills. They want balanced elites like eviscerate, not overpowered elites like warrior's endurance.

It's been 2,5 months since the last balance update. People expected more to happen given the time. I completely understand why some players are pissed because the large content update in april and the april fools update notes didn't contribute anything to the PvP-players.


For my personal interest when my guildmates aren't there: Jade Quarry.
- RoJ is a pest for some time now. Many complain about how NPC's don't scatter.
- Then, there have been reports for months about turtles and juggernauts that get stuck and refuse to move.

Both issues not adressed in those 2,5 months of time. And that's just Jade Quarry! Instead people see some random nerfs, you ask for these: "WTF!? Anet stinks!"-replies.

I'm still curious why we have gone 5 months with only nerfs. When will the creativity start to kick in again?

i kinda like the update, only aegis made me /WTFOMGBBQ
no extreme remove from game nerfes, and good nerfes like PnH and LC
no i'm ok with this for a while.

Thank you for responding.

Surely you cannot deny that this update has been badly received? There are people who like aspects of this update, but so many more that are amazed by it's lack of quality. Expectation was very high, delivery was very low.

The skill tweaks were very "meh" I doubt if I will notice much. So it's not about trying the changes, what I woujld like to try is the changes that weren't made, how about fixing the seriously broken and much abused skills, like SF and RoJ? Or is it that some aspects of the game are not important to the devs now? Is Permasin abuse okay since the introduction of drop rate throttleing? Is RoJ fine since it only affects people mindlessly grinding for faction titles? or the bots leeching?

And on that last subject, what is the point of changing the dishonor system but keeping it hidden? How about some transparency on this so we can judge?

And do you ever intend to make pets useful?