Update - Thursday, May 14

aegis fail..... -_-
go go iway

We dont really need a change to SF, just to the mobs where they farm.
Add some touch/signets to Vaettir and w/e monsters in UW and FoW. Does the job quite well. Cause I think they should remain in Doa

It was already a standard on 1 of my heroes while I'm playing on a melee charac Now it's even more imba, although I'm not sure if that was even needed in pve

Judging on how lazy Anet is, I'm afraid SF will remain untill eternity and those monsters will never appear...

How true this is

Aside from the PvP changes (which are also fairly bad), do they actually have a clue as to what is wrong with PvE?

UWSC - 8 man team can speed clear a supposedly elite area inside of 20 mins with no problems whatsoever, yet in the "big" skill balance they haven't even touched one of the skills involved?

FoWsc - See above
DoA - See above

get the picture? the majority of people will say yes we understand, yet the developers cannot grasp this simple concept and their contribution is to buff certain PvE skills lol

it has been said for at least the past 6 months that [roj] & [cry of pain] are hugely overpowered, yet nothing has registered with a dev to think of balancing these?

PvE is presently the worst farmfest I have seen in my 3 years of playing and the dev's have done nothing other than contribute to this

The guild I am part of was made to do SC and after 2 months the majority of us got completely bored of it and imo it is killing the game, players are now lazier than they have ever been, if an area/mission/vq cannot be done quickly then they simply do not bother to play them.

Does this mean that a-net will now never nerf the key skills in these builds for fear of losing a bunch of these players? If that is the stance a-net are taking then it simply proves what a sorry shape the game is in.

It's a good job that they introduced dailies to keep some real PvE players involved otherwise PvE would be dead apart from ToA, DoA & Spamadan for selling the shiny stuff

At least Shadow Form needs a review.
I'ts annoying being required to be only monk, necromancer or assassin, and each of them going to clean a separate area.
At least one of the types of monsters in each area should get a skill that goes around it.
Or change the functionality of Shadow Form Altoghether to not get damage, but not deal it at all too unless it is physical damage, since spells are the main source of damage for Shadow Form farmers.

Parties should go in together, play together, be formed by many random professions and the only reasons for party splits should be quest and mission objectives.

I know they're working on GW2 so I find it hard to complain, but it's kinda bad when you update your game and a good 95% of players wish you hadn't.

I'm mostly just bitter that they refuse to throw Ritualists a bone. I was looking forward to this update thinking something good might come of it, oh well.

That's sounds Ideal in Practice but its never worked in a game like Guild Wars or any other game with added content such as classes and skills its bound to change due to being effective.

e.g.

Running forge
Sins SF are the fastest followed by Dervish VoS . If the sin lost shadow form what would you take? A nice party to stroll down? . You take the next best thing the Dervish still pretty damn fast. VoS nerf Can't run it. Next best thing a Warrior hell it can run it'ss just take a hell of a lot longer. Hell Shadow form is back which are you going to take The Warrior? , Nope back to the best thing Shadow Form.


Through those UWSC is based on what a class can do and if One class is better than another for a certain area of the game. So it not annoying to be required to be only monk, necromancer or assassin.

It's not the original Guild Wars when it was FoW with Tank Monk Nuke anymore so it's wrong to say each class should play evenly tell that to mes class that got shafted for a long time in PvE. Did they get to play evenly with other groups?(No). Nightfall ruined casual Partying of players , why? Heroes are better than most players.

Being effective is what matters if you want a casual UW run talk to your friends or guild don't expect pug to take if you don't have the proper requirements.An exceptionish Ursan great everyone joins in on overkill.

If a warrior could do what an assassin could do e.g. UWSC but the assassin was 3 mins faster. Which class would you pick? The slower warrior that everyone has to waste 3 mins waiting or the assassin who can do the same thing 3 mins faster.

Would you take a mes if cryway wasn't there , a assassin without shadow form , a 600hp monk evolved from 55hp farming. Hell Spell breaker and Holy Wrath + Retribution and what not to deal back damage done QQ Vanq nearly everything with that. Are you going to tell me to take an Assassin with SF and an Nuke Ele over 600hp/Smite to Vanq an area? Taking the Monks all the way the point comes back to efficiency. If the Ele and SF Perma could do it faster and better I would take those two it's not about team casually it's different groups that do different things .

Also I believe in developer notes

. Shadow Form's damage reduction was lowered so that it's more viable for a wider range of uses, including boss hunting. We're further adjusting the effectiveness of Shadow Form Underworld farmers by changing the Underworld, rather than additional changes to Shadow Form.

Thursday, August 7, 2008 developer notes


No nerf to SF , here's an idea change the mob not the skill.

Most Elite areas are a joke with new skills and ways to use them. You want something harder DoA. Too hard People QQ No one happy no matter what. Nerf People Happy QQ not hard enough stop QQ.

Rant/ Done / Not meaning to flame/

As with 55 monks, 600 monk~rits, 330's, 105's, shadowform will most likely not get nerfed. There are plenty of things in the game that punch right through shadowform like it was wet tissue paper....signets, touch skills, indirect aoe damage and traps to name most of them.

Well, I just do not get it. It's mind boggling selfishness and feelings of entitlement on an epic scale. Anet hit quite a few problematic skills with this update (PnH, WoH, LC, WE, PwK, MoI, FF) which people had been wanting nerfs to for a while. But even so, people just fall back on sad comments like:

"Not enough, Anet!"
"It's too late now, Anet!"
"I waited two months for this, Anet!"
"LOLOLOL Failnet!"
"LOL Aegis!"

I fail to see how this was a low quality update, considering that felt less of a dartboard skill update than normal. Now yes, maybe some of the nerfs were not strong enough, but at least they were aimed.

Uhhhh....No. Could you clear UW under 20 min with 8 55 monks? And how many of those signets/touch skills and traps are you really encountering in PvE? Anyway, this discussion has already been around for a long time so no use to start it again.

But after that update, I believe it still got changed with the shorter duration (and shorter recharge) to make it more energy intensive right? Which means they were still looking at it.

So you are suggesting people should stop using runners, farm builds and just play the game it was meant to be done? BLASPHEMY!!

Even if it's not a speed clear, people were duoing the UW and FoW years and years ago. Plenty of necro+monk teams would do that and have done that since the game came out. It's just not a speed clear, which is happening with full teams instead of just 1 or 2 people soloing parts of the area.

Clue: you might want to re-write that to "95% of the guru population" and even that would be wrong.

Because I think Melandru's Shot totally dumb down the way to play a ranger and it gives a better bar compression compared to the old Cripshot build using Crippling Shot. Burning Arrow is a joke without an IAS.

Melandru's Shot just has to be played skillfully now, what's the issue with that? :3

Ive been hearing alot of talk about changes to perma sins, what exactly will they be doing? final nail in the coffin?

On topic:
Good game Anet..

We may have lost a little today, but as long as we're still clipping your spells (ROJ namely), everything's peachy.

What I don't like the most, which probably is thanks to the team not having enough time:
Instead of balancing the game by giving you more viable options, and therefore more interesting teambuilds, they keep narrowing it by nerfing stuff that's overused.

I prefer the balancing where you make underused skills as good as the overused, and therefore make people actually choose how they want to play, instead of just telling (forcing) what not to play.

I agree with this. I would hate to see a nerf to SF. I love to play DoA, I would be very sad if I couldn't do it anymore.
If you Q_Q and say "but go and play with PuGs or your guildies" well newsflash! DoA is pretty much dead. During a normal day, you see maybe 2-3 people standing in DoA doing nothing. Finding a competent PuG is impossible, and what if your guildies don't like DoA?
I shouldn't play DoA then either, no matter how much I like it? Pffft....

I don't abuse the SF for ectos or whatever... If I need some money I go keg, and I much rather do that for an hour than farm (grind) for the same amount of money elsewhere for 4 hours...

Anyways, I am very happy SF didn't get nerfed, it would ruin a lot of fun for me. Thank you Anet.

Hello, im a Paragon and i come to this post to see my update skill........................oh wait!!!!

Why was aegis changed to this? Why not to another useless skill?

Thats not great reasoning. The skill is obviously overpowered, It is literally a godmode skill. It has to be changed. Even if you don't abuse it for stuff, hundreds of others do.

I'd be glad if I were you.

Sure?

No Paragons in PVP.

Only 1 Build in PVE ( imbagon ).


Im sorry for the ritualist, but it seems Nightfall Professions have been forgotten for Anet, and they dont want remember that Paragon and Dervish still exist.

That's why I agreed with the post I quoted, that the change needs to be made on the UW / FOW monsters and vaettirs. Just a touch/signet skill and SF is unusable.

AND it won't make DoA a completely desolate place.

True, I think paragons and ritualists can shake hands.

Making DoA empty (or better yet, only used by guild runs) is a small price to pay to kill SF.

Elites (and hence, builds) buffed into play over the last year: Warrior's Endurance, Melandru's Shot, Peace and Harmony, Lingering Curse, Mirror of Ice, Palm Strike, Ray of Judgement, Primal Rage, Expert's Dexterity, Incendiary Arrows, Ether Prism, Blinding Surge, Mark of Insecurity, Wastrel's Collapse, Lyssa's Aura, Weaken Knees, Mind Blast, Tease, Visions of Regret, Pain of Disencantment, Life Sheath... I give up, but in short: you're wrong.

Decent update, although nerfs to Ray of Judgement and Shadow Form would have been nice. Aegis change is very interesting.

Did anybody see that post on the official wiki where somebody said they were doing this kind of nonsense on purpose to get people to stop playing to reduce costs to maintain GW1? Sounds unlikely but I would consider it more than other excuses at this point.

"Welcome to the Official Guild Wars wiki, the comprehensive Guild Wars reference written and maintained by the players."

That post was VERY QUICKLY deleted...


Its very well documented that they intend to keep GW1 going after the release of GW2 and its also well speculated that its because of the HoM bonuses, so that people can go back and get their HoM done for their GW2 characters

Mirror, Melandru, WE, Ling curse are nerfed again. RoJ is not a GvG elite, never seen Tease, Life Sheath, Primal rage, weaken knees, Lyssa or palm strike either. Experts dext got a nerf quickly after the buff.
Now this might be because of the 'stick to what everyone does'-attitude but I don't see really much different teambuilds in gvg. I think there are 3, maybe 4 common used builds. Besides we have seen in the last few years 1 major buff/change in skills. Apart from that it's montly nerfing.
What i meant is more that you instead take the normal WoH bar (might change now) you can run for instance Blessed Light, because it's as good as WoH, though different. (you could argue it's like that already and add the argument people prefer to stick to what everyone does)

Well you catch my drift .

I still don't see the reason to kill SF off. I love playing with it.

Buff the monsters in UW/FoW and vaettirs with a signet, that's all it takes to stop UWSCs and FoWSCs without ruining SF for the honest and normal players too.

I already said my piece about guild runs too....

There are still players out there who enjoy the challenge of let's say FoW. Me and a couple of guildies cleared FoW in HM a few days ago, and it took us 5 hours! Now THAT was fun! ^_^ Makes you appreciate an Obsidian Shard drop big time

I haven't PvPed since around the release of Nightfall (unless you count AB, which I don't), so my first and strongest reaction to this is that PwK should have been split for PvE and PvP. Splitting skills is a leap they've already made, and with less justification in some cases, so I really don't see why they'd back down from it on this one. I'm sure it did present some problems in PvP, but in PvE it is, as someone else said, robbing an undervalued class of one of its few strengths.

Total Failure once again ANet.

Repeated delays for a skill balance that is mindnumbingly poor shows a complete lack of ability and concern for the game and players. What was it it? Like less than 20 skills and only 3-4 of those ones were skills that needed adjusted.

Say the delay was "to be certain there are no bugs" and then have a bug so bad it crashes EVERYONE in an instance reiterates the size of failure that this update has brought forth. Bad.

Prepare for 3 monk back lines in PvP paired with tons of physicals.

The was absolutly nothing wrong with Aegis, it was one of the few skills in this game that was completly balanced. Long recharge, High energy cost, long cast time for easy interupt, easily removed, but with a HUGE reward. There are already plenty of spike stopping skills already.

This is a total absolute failure.

Bad update is bad.

I'm going to go hook the PS3 back up as there seems to be no point in logging into GWs.

the update is decent. the only thing that bugs me is the aegis nerf.

Being naive as I usually am: what's so wrong with MB eles?

I don't PvP much (now a bit more since z challenges), but when I do this is the *only* thing I can run (my main is an ele). Eles are really laughable at and even with MB they're not really interesting, they barely make it into TA parties or anything.

Now really, what is an ele supposed to do? Heal? Gee...

They get to spam high damage, low recharge spells, while having a 75% block up 90% of the time, without having to worry about energy and because they get to spam, they get constant heal from their aura ench.

EDIT: Except from bal and hexway, 1 A/D, 2 E/Mes and 1 Mo/Any, is probably the most common team you'll find in TA atm.

I usually skim the comments on the updates, and I think this thread has some of the most negative feedback I've seen.

I don't understand why people are still wanting a SF nerf. It has been nerfed more than enough and is almost useless. You can't maintain it for a long time due to energy shortage. A raptor farm is much easier as E/Me than as SF sin in my opinion. Why destroying the fun for people that like to use it? It doesn't hurt anybody who doesn't want to play it.

Same with RoJ. Maybe it is overpowered in PvP - no idea - but it's the only decent smiter skill for a monk in PVE. If they nerf it I hope they only do it for PvP.

Is it just me, or is anyone else asking, "What Balance?" I see only nerfs; merciless, wreckless unneeded nerfs. M.Shot & Hunters were like the final blow to Ranger viability. Aegis was changed just after the Live Team completed their "4:20pm Meeting" and LC is now every Necro's TOP PICK because there's no moar wtf PnH to stop it!! E/Me's continue to abuse Distortion, and now with the buff to IW, 4v4's seeing a fk'ton of IW Mesmers with Distortion, a (two time) buffed heal signet and 10 more energy in their pool to help [email protected] some more with Distortion. Is this Just? YES, well it's just BULLSH.....! And again, Anet won't ever revert anything anymore because they're never wrong, always right and they have no time nor incentive to (unless moar players buy makeovers to pay them for decimally better skill changes). Gg.. Anet..