All violent video games to be banned in Germany

No....there couldn't possibly have been violence before video games came into being! Everything was peachy before video games:

No Crusades.....

No slavery.....

No civil wars.....

No Jack the Ripper....

etc, etc, etc....

No, was all a figment of the world's imagination.

AmbientMelody, as I all ready stated that I realize the contradiction of not being able to discuss one without the other, if you had seen some of the all ready deleted posts it would make much more sense to you. Some have covered blatant misinformation, people's own versions of history and politics, what school systems are teaching or not teaching in regards to politics, people's opinions of Germany/Japan and vile comments associated with their opinion on each and more. This topic is related to gaming and you can see that many are staying on the topic of gaming without straying too far. The only posts that are being deleted are those that deal exclusively with politics (and people's versions of history). While those that attempt to bridge the 2 topics, within reason, are being allowed to stay.

Still doesn't make it right.

I'd like to see those studies. For every study saying video games are detrimental, I'll show you a study that says they aren't detrimental and can actually be positive. I could probably also find a study showing any given thing on earth is detrimental. There is no proof that games are detrimental to the development of anybody outside of a few cases. And in those cases video games were often the substitute for something else that could have been much worse anyways (drugs alcohol etc). If you are saying video games are detrimental in any way, you will have to ban any and all entertainment and diversions.

If there are a few cases, is that enough to ban them for an entire population? You could make an easier argument that alcohol or cigarettes should be banned. Banning video games to me is hilarious.

S'true, guys. And as soon as I find that Ruby Maul of Fortitude in my garage, you all are toast.

No NO go for etarnal blade...I mean Ghostly swords that will leave a mark -_-

You gotta be sarcastic. What about the fact that they created 2 world wars less than a 100 years after it's creation way before video games were even thought of as something that could exist? God if this comment isn't sarcastic then I gotta scream!!

Welcome to reality sir. Violence is fun. We aren't beginning to enter that gray area, we have always been there: Gladiator battles in ancient rome, public executions in the 18th century of France, Slaughtering of innocent people during the crusades and so on.

What differs between modern society and the ancient kind is that the violence in our entertainment today is fictive. Video games, movies, comic books and sports. It's all made for our entertainment and doesn't actually harm us physically. Isn't fictive violence actually good in that aspect? Isn't it good that we have these things to entertain us instead of having to create our own violence?

Of course there are people who are easily affected by violence in the entertainment industry, but we are generally less violent in modern times than we have been throughout the history of the world. Even though we have more powerful weapons, we don't all carry around a gun and just shoot it off while we are bored. Of course there will always be bad eggs, that's just how reality is, but blaming the entertainment industry completely is a load of *insert bad word here*

Don't you agree?

I do..thast what i have been saying in this thread under a different words...

Dear Guru: When someone posts something that makes no sense when viewed as anything but sarcasm, there's a good chance that it might actually be sarcasm. Hard concept, I know.

On-topic, gaming is the new Elvis. Your children will all be corrupted, beware~

In all seriousness, there are much larger and more pressing issues to be dealing with.

Sometimes it really amazes me how well the world is doing right now, since the children were being so irreversibly corrupted when TV became big. And even more miraculous is how well that generation turned out when the novel was sending them all to hell in a hand basket.

I can guarantee that our children's road to hell is already paved with some technology that will be invented in the next 20 years.



Completely off topic, does anyone else see pedobear in the CursorMania ad at the top?

The way I see it, I think it's also a lot easier for people to blame the games than it is to admit that maybe, just maybe, they screwed up.

If a kid who plays an FPS takes a gun, goes out and shoots people, it is unfortunately a far tastier tidbit to claim that he was negatively influenced by the games he played than to point out things like, say, maybe his parents shouldn't have been leaving those guns lying around. Or maybe he was being bullied in school.

Not that either actually excuses the act of shooting someone, but claiming it's all the fault of videogames... that sounds a bit like denial to me, and it won't be the first time, either. I mean, we've had things like Patricia Pulling and D&D, so...

I remember studying this sort of thing in Psychology in first year at University.

You know what the main conclusion was?

That violent people can become violent, after playing violent video games. They ALSO can become violent after watching violent TV. Or listening to violent music. Note; violent PEOPLE. Not regular people.

Regular people can distinguish between being angry/violent in a game and irl. Violent people, not as much.

There is no evidence to suggest it makes people violent. That's all because of that jackass Jack Thompson. Violent video games CAN trigger violence in VIOLENT PEOPLE.

Suggesting it 'makes' you violent is propaganda.

I agree with what a lot of what you all are saying. However, I will continue to argue this point because someone has to.

With games, there's immersion. With television there's not. I think that's the primary difference between gaming and television, which is why I've never believed there to be a valid comparison between the two in that respect.

That all boils down to taste, Might just as well ban horror movies too then, or a thriller like Silence of the Lambs which is far more sadistic then any PC game I ever seen. I, however, think that movie is a splendid work of art. There's definitely a sadist in me, and a lot of anger. If I don't have a safe way of channeling that (through kickboxing, violent art, heavy metal and whatnot) I can't function properly. Other people actually think I'm rather gentle, go figure .

Rod Stewart makes me violent, hands down, OMGBANHIMLULZWTF!!!!

There's lots of things that I don't like, and every day again I am grateful to have the choice to simply turn them off.

Ah this is what happens when there is no Constitution. The government can easily make decisions for the people without them having any say in the matter. Violent video games being banned in the USA would never happen, it would be impossible for it to. Sucks for those who live in Germany though.

You can't just legislate everything, people must make up the rest as they go. I don't mond that as long as those people aren't being idiots

Germany has a constitution thank you very much. And I dare say it is more modern and more liberal than anything around.

It's just when judges and politicians are interpreting the constitution that things go awry in Germany. Same in the U.S., when patriotic acts try to install safety above life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. The centerpiece of post war Germany is the idea of human dignity as the one thing that is never to be hurt. I hear you laughing and with good right, but sometimes politicians show some hypocrisy and go after things to deter from other stupid things they are doing at the same time.

Which is why Germany is still discussion the finer points of chainsawing Locusts and ripping off heads in God of War instead of demanding an answer why the list of East German spies handsomely provided by the U.S. is not up for public access. One could get the impression some high ranking German politicians are on that list. Don't mind that though, violent games, violent games. Elect me, you will be safe!

Germany has a constitution m8. It's a little different than the American, but basically the same.

Banning violent games is not a solution. If people are worried their kids will be influenced too much by games, they simply shouldn't let them play them, or restrict the amount of time they spend on them each day. It's called "parenting".
Of course, if you let your kids play too much games, any games at all, they'll fail at school because they're not spending enough time on their studies/homework.
And as Fenix already pointed out: Violent video games CAN trigger violence in VIOLENT PEOPLE.
The solution isn't banning violent games alltogether, it's to be aware if your children are violent in any way, and trying to help them control/manage their violence/anger. That's also parenting. Besides, isn't there an MPAA rating on games?
The government shouldn't be the one doing the parenting for the entire country. This also happens a lot in the Netherlands. People here find it extremely patronizing. It's the parent's job to watch over their children. Let the government deal with the really important stuff please, there's already enough going on (economic crisis for example) to be worrying about violence in games.

Pretty spot on my fellow country(wo)man. Funny thing is that people find it patronizing, but hardly ever object. My parents knew their job way better then some goofy politician does. Government should be macro-ing, leave micro-ing to the people. If you take everyhing out of the people's hands they will become numb and vulnerable. After a while they will NEED people to tell them what to do with every move they make.

There is no constitution, but the Grundgesetz (basic law) serves the same function. It works so well that not many demanded a new constitution after the reunification of Germany and that there still is none. You should also know who was responsible for spreading democracy in Germany after WW2 and defined the basic rules of democracy after 1945.

There are silly laws in several federal states of the USA, too. There are whole webpages that have lists of the most ridiculous laws. Gay marriages and no max speed limit on highways and less fuss about female nipples are also things that are not allowed everywhere in the USA.

We have some politicians that would make fine Republicans. Wolfgang Schaeuble for example would make a great spymaster for the american homeland security, and would observe everyone in order to protect him... from himself or something like that.


The "ban" of computergames would not mean a complete ban either. Games could not be displayed in stores or sold to persons younger than 18 years. This would hurt sales of course, but gamers would just order their games online, as many already do. Or ask their brother/friend/father to buy it for them.


This is no the first time certain computer games are heavily criticized and made the scapegoat for massacres and other things.
There is just little else to discuss before elections in the summer weeks, it is always useful to distract from real problems and issues.

True, and germany certainly isn't the first country to make fuss about it.

There's a lot of cool stuff you can blame for people going bad you know :P
-Video games
-Heavy Metal
-Sex
-Being religious
-Not being religious
-Drugs (though I agree with that one to a certain extent)
-The Matrix
-The Matrix Reloaded (Though that would be too much credit for such a crappy movie ^^)

I personally still blame Rod Stewart

I completely agree. Its the same for every other county.

Any topic which sparks public debate is always hightened at election time. Opposing political parties tend to think that winning public hearts over subects like this is going to win them an election. Its the court of public opinion which decides elections afterall.

When the dust clears on this subject something else will pop up to cause controversy.

Which doesn't say you shouldn't be on your guard, freedom isn't to be taken for granted, it's too precious.

Exactly, its no use being complacent.

This is the crux of the matter that makes this whole issue so much more annoying for me. For various reasons ( Convenience, fear, indifference etc. ) People are unwilling/not able to take responsibility for their own actions in this day and age, the problem is compounded when governments make the choice for them, which is usually censorship or banning, while these parties who make the choices are ignorant ( and seemingly sometimes willfully so ) of the real issues and facts behind the matter.
As you said the people who commit crimes of this nature are surely mentally unsound to begin with and if their parent/guardian allows them to play these sort of games ( or watch films etc. ) aren't they the ones at fault?
However I can understand that a government who turned around and criticised someones parenting ( or guardian, or others, such as doctors who are probably aware or should be aware of people with serious mental issues etc. ) would come under extreme pressure and almost certainly lose credability to even hint at the idea.

Here's the updated quote.


I guess the German goverment isn't interested in looking at the real issues in their society. It's much easier to blame games or whatever contains some violence, they needed a scapegoat and they found one. The problem is "spree killers" have been around for a very long time, way before the advent of violent video games.

I had no idea todays Germany was such a nanny state. But maybe moving back to the days where they have lots of repressive laws on people's freedom is a more natural state for them.

It's all about the golden middle way!

And the Matrix Revolutions if you added reloaded anyways :P

I think we would agree. However, there are somethings to consider about people being mistrained against their nature rather than trained to accept and manage their nature. About 99% of all serial rapists were WASPish, or adopted and raised by same. This is not about race, but about a particular orientation to teach that natural drives are by nature evil - to eliminate the interest of the drive these person in one way or another justify elimination of the temptation.

If we begin attempting to teach people shun and persecute their natural aggression, we will in-fact create psychotics who will violently attack those things that inspire or teach natural handling/channeling of our aggressive instincts. This depends on there being a correlation between our propensity to fight instead of flight as functioning the same as our reproductive drive. As the two are located in the same area of the primitive brain, and even occasionally become mixed in their signals, I find the supposition warranted.

So I guess that leaves them Tetris and Ridge Racer.

Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching little magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music....

or is this just myself?

Actually constant failure does affect children. Their frustration levels get so high after long periods of play that they have no patience and are prone to lashing out/becoming violent. Video games can worsen behavior in children and cause some children to become more prone to violent fits of rage.
There is so much proof of this, its silly to even try to denie it.

But this is only due to a lack of parenting or bad parenting. Parents should control how often their children play games, and what games they are allowed to play. If a child begins to show negative signs, violent behavior, antisocial behavior, lowered grades. Then that child should not be allowed to play the game that is affecting him/her or not play video games at all until the situation improves.

We got that dude who died on starcraft from not sleeping/eating enough and playing for 50+ hours.

We got that dude who murdered his friend for selling an In_game weapon without permission.

We got that little kid who jumped out a apartment window on like the 15-20th floor cause his parents took away his video games.

We got kids smashing keyboards, screaming into microphones, kicking pc towers, smashing laptops, punching themselves in the face... Need I go on?

Video games can affect adults the same way if those adults are disfunctional to begin with. Video games can bring out the dark side of an already troubled person. Excitement + Continued frustration + inherant emotional/mental issues = complete mental break down + Violent psychotic rage = some "noob" being on the six oclock news, shot to death by the local law enforcement, discovered to have a world of warcraft disc up his pooter. And life long gamers are not the most emotionally balanced people to begin with. Ever seen those halo videos? Ever play CoD4 or MgS4 or just about any online game with a mic and listen to the ranting, raving and completely funny trash talk that goes on CONSTANTLY.

Some people shouldn't play video games.
/thread.
/forum.
/internet.

Thought this was worth quoting from another forum,

"The real reason is a bit more complicated.

We Germans fundamentally believe that media (of any kind) can make people do things they normally wouldn't. We've had this belief even before the Nazis and their slick propaganda machine, but that episode cemented it.

This is just my personal theory, but I think my people need this belief. Otherwise, we would have to accept that an entire country, one of the most civilized at the time, descended into barbarism by its own free will. That is a truly horrifying thought. And that's why we need the media as a scapegoat.

Comic books corrupt young minds; rock 'n roll promotes promiscuity; trashy TV is to blame for kids being total RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOwads, and so on and so on. Personal responsibility is kind of an alien concept in Germany. Kid shoots up his school? Blame the guns! Blame the games! Blame paintball! What say you, blame the parents? Or the kid himself? What the hell is wrong with you?!?

As long as the Germans won't accept that violent or "corrupting" media (Jugendgefaehrdende Schriften, in German) have no sway over a healthy mind, we will never see a change in these policies."


I agree with him to an extent. It has been proven that in children small influences can lead to large character changing events. I for instance would not allow a 14 or 15 year old to play GTA. Not because I feel they will go out and kill a hooker but that they will imitate the ganster life style within logical reason. Meaning that they will wear pants that fall off their ass, talk back to their teachers, vandalize, and so forth. Obviously a good parent is fighting such influences that already are comming from other places, (school, tv, socity.) I feel it is perfectly fine that a parent restrict their children from playing violent games. Hell I still know people who are in their 20's that should not be playing these games

With that being said, Germany's ban on violent games is foolish. Socially speaking, there are many other problems that cause violent behavior, most come from the social level, which this law is completly ignoring. Though I am quit conservetive myself, I feel that the state regulating this indestry is an infringment on individual rights, though that is the american in me speaking...

Finally, I personally feel that video games do not desentize a level headed adult. I remember when I was 17 or so and I foolishly looked up the beheading of that American back when the Iraq war started, I felt sick to my stomach. Though I had done it a thousand times before in video games seeing it in realty almost made me throw up, not to mention the emotional sickness that I felt as well.

Any parent and society as a whole which has not educated...ENGRAINED into their younger citizens (and older ones as well) that being a "Gangster" or even acting like one REGARDLESS of what some medium is telling you has FAILED, they have (and are in the process of) turned over their MORAL responsibility of EDUCATION, of TEACHING to the mass media. I see this every.single.day where people live like sheep shutting their mouths and accepting whatever gross incivilities they see AS LONG as it does not DIRECTLY affect them. And when it does? they shut their mouths and take it like a good 2 dollar **** because they KNOW that NOBODY will stand up to help them out.

all this talking and passing the blame makes me laugh. get up and ACT.

This. Reality - even distanced reality - and fiction are different things, and if someone is honestly unable to tell the difference, it's time he sought help. Torching Modti Darkflower in GW and setting my neighbour's plants on fire are different things. The thing is, people understandably remember the extreme cases - it's a lot easier to remember "guy murdered his friend over a video game" than remember "the neighbour's son enjoys playing games and he's a straight A student". You don't really go all out to remember the default, do you? (Not that straight As is necessarily a default, but.)

Recently I was watching television and had a German network on. The reported said that they want to ban Paintball or Lasergames in Germany because it's not funny to shoot at people. Germans are turning into softies?

Wow, that country is turning into one giant hippie suck fest. No paintball? COME ON! I think they've been drinking to much of their own stock, honestly.


I completely agree and have the scars, broken bones and knife wounds to prove it.

There is a billion people who arent effected badly by video games,but we got a few hundred who are.
The conclusion?
Video games are bad.

It takes only one bad apple...

Remember before video games. When there was no violence. Good times

And because some people shouldn't be playing video games, they have to be banned.


If you think the consequences you mentioned are caused by video games alone and banning them is the solution, you should consider rethinking your education.
You should never take something away form a child, you should teach him to leave it by himself, and understand why he did good...