An Open Letter to Anet Re: Roleplaying and Character Motivation

Originally Posted by Khyr Lord of Kaoz

It's because of my writing background that I'm aware of what does and doesn't need to be explained and those areas are very seldom in question.

Minor plot points need less explanation but the less plausible something is, the more it needs to be explained.

For example if a guy in a book doesn't know what time it is and he passes an electronics store window in which a tv is playing, it's reasonable that he might know what show is playing, and thus, be able to deduce the time from it. No explanation is needed.

However, if the guy is blind, then he wouldn't see the televisions and you'd have to explain, as the writer, how he figured out the time. This isn't magic, it's common sense.

There are many many areas, routine quests you take and such in Factions, that put your own allies as the enemy. It's not a random happenstance, it's a major plot point and as such, requires an explanation.

Just remember, the whole reason, from a roleplaying game that you're doing something, is because it's important. In Prophecies, it's important to fight the charr, cause they destroyed your homeland. It's important to get to Kryta, because King Adelburn isn't realistic about the charr threat and you've seen what the charr can do first hand.

In the Shiverpeaks, we're motivated to face the stone summit, to get through to kryta, and safety. In Kryta we have to deal with the White Mantle, so they'll let us into LA and we can settle there. The storyline provides the motivation.

In factions, the plague and trying to find out about it propels us to the mainlands and beyond, until we learn that Shiro the Betrayer has returned. The historical scenes are interesting, but technically not really necessary, because though I've seen them, my character hasn't. My character doesn't sit at my computer desk.

Now, if you are in, or have a guild that is allied to the Luxons, you are a Luxon yourself, or you're their ally. But the Factions story line insists you help the Kurzicks, who in theory would be your enemy. In fact, you have to get the Kurzicks to trust you, so you can unite the factions to fight Shiro.

The issue only exists, if you are Luxon, because guild alliance is accountwide. Whatever character I create is part of a Luxon Guild. No way around it. So that means when they get to the point in the story line when they have to kill their own allies, they aren't going to be happy. And I have never been convinced I wanted to. I've never wanted to fight Luxons, because I am one, or at least allied to the Luxons. I should never have to.

But if the game is going to insist that I do have to, that is not a credible point, without it being excused. Remember, in a book or story, the less plausible a point, the more it requires attention from the author. Anything else is just bad writing.

Fiction doesn't have to be realistic, to be successful, but it has to remain plausible, or the reader will simply be turned off. Not every reader mind you, but the ones who get most involved.

There are exceptions to this, such as comedy. You can get away more, if you're not taking yourself seriously. But in anything dramatic, characters need to have internal logic and they need to follow that internal logic or a percentage of readers will be disturbed.

And believe me, as a writer, the last thing you want to do is betray your readership.

Originally Posted by Sword Hammer Axe

"Kafka on the Shore" by Murakami Haruki. In that book one of the major characters is "The boy called Crow". That character always tell the main character about what's happening around him and why he does what he does. He can change himself into the shape of a crow and knows everything about the main character and the main characters past. He could be a product of the main characters mind of course, but then he wouldn't be able to peck out the eyes of a man with a whistle that catches souls later on in the book. It's all a major plot in the book. But we don't get any explanation about who Crow is or what he represents nor how he knows everything about the main character and why he tries to help him.

You could say it's a flaw in the book, yet the book became an international hit.

You are right: You don't want to betray your readers, but really sometimes you actually betray the readers by telling them why this and that happens.

Originally Posted by Roupe

With the end. It felt like the whole ordeal from the Crystal desert and on, wasted the heroes time. Sure the Mursat & White Mantel leaders got killed, but the underlying motivation as to why the heroes followed the Vizier was not resolved.

Originally Posted by Khyr Lord of Kaoz

Actually, a good writer can break any rule intentionally, but pointing to exceptions made by good writers intentionally or perhaps instinctively, doesn't help your argument.

The fact is by introducing the idea of Factions and alliance, GW opened a veritable Pandora's box. There is nothing to make the plot stronger by not addressing the idea that a roleplaying character needs motivation to attack his own people.

I can think of rules that break almost every "rule" of writing, but so what? It's not relevant to a game that isn't deliberately a literary work. All games have stories and storylines. What works in literature, may not, however, work in a game storyline, unless it's done by a very astute writer.

One of the cool things I like is how the characters in cut scenes get out of using gender so it doesn't matter who they're talking to.

Good work, Commander.

Good work all around, Dunkoro.

Intentionally selected to avoid referring to gender. GW was brilliant with how that was done.

I hope, in GW2 they pay attention to details like that.

Originally Posted by Roupe

yes, and my point is that the Heroes decided to fight the mantle. And realizing that the ordeal was almost a waste of time for that objective. The Heroes should resume in their pursuit of secure the safety of the Ascalonians and the Shining Blade.

Meaning rooting up the White Mantle and the Mursaat or moving the Ascalonians up into the Shiverpeaks.

Originally Posted by Sword Hammer Axe

Gender: Couldn't agree more.

But when you say what works in literature may not work in a game: Then why did you point out your own authority as an author and started speaking of rules of writing in the first place?

Originally Posted by Sword Hammer Axe

And when you say your own people: You are not Luxon. You are either a Canthan or a foreigner who is trying to bring these two factions together so that you together can fight Shiro Tagachi.

Originally Posted by Khyr Lord of Kaoz

Because games do have storylines, though they are not stories and the story line is important to the game.

I bring up my own credentials because I want to point out, I have experience that allows me to discern what is important to fix and what might not be. I'm not just a writer, but a writing mentor and an editor as well. My view of this problem is from a more or less professional standpoint. I'd suggest this to any writer who's book I was in the process of editing.

The fact that a game is not usually authored by a talented writer and serves a different purpose than a story or book, does not change that fact that is would be a better product if it remained plausible, didn't pull roleplayers out of the game, and didn't ask you to do things you aren't motivated to do, without explaining why.

If motivation of your character wasn't important, there wouldn't BE storylines in games. Even arcade games have them. Castlevania is an arcade game, but still has a story. Why does a jumping fighting game need a story? Because it gives you a reason for being there, and a reason to enjoy the game more.

That doesn't mean that the guy who wrote the story for Castlevania is a great author who can take write whatever he wants, assuming that it doesn't matter. It matters or they wouldn't do it in the first place.

If a great author, a Harlan Ellison, Roger Zelazny, JRR Tolkien or whoever were writing it, and decided to take a risk, that's very very different than an unintentional omission that could easily be corrected.

Because of my profressional background, I'm in a position to point it out. That's all. I'm not saying I'm a world-class author. I'm saying as an author and editor, this character motivation doesn't work. Again, if it weren't important to motivate a character, why put any time/effort/work into it at all.



You're the second person who said I am not a Luxon. How do you know that? What makes you say it. Where is the proof, in game, of what you say.

It's already been pointed out on this thread that Luxons and Kurzicks and even Foreigners (such as Menhlo) have come to study at Shing Jea. If that's the case, why can't I be a Luxon and how do you know I'm not.

Part of roleplayiong is creating a storyline for your character. A background that precedes the game. This is best done by not contradicting the game. Like I couldn't create a character and say I'm the Emperor of Cantha, because I'm not. That's factual in the game.

But there ARE Luxons and Kurzicks, at least two we know of, in Shing Jea, so creating myself as one doesn't contradict the game at all.

And, as I said, I'm already in a Luxon guild, even if I weren't a luxon myself, I know, because I can go to the guild hall. I have luxon skills. My guild has luxon faction. That means, whether or not I am luxon (each character can be different), I am allied to the luxon EITHER WAY.

As I wouldn't kill my own, I wouldn't want to kill my allies either. Actually, I think you're just arguing to argue. Most of this has already been pointed out.

Unless I have something new to say, I won't be adding to this thread.

Originally Posted by Sword Hammer Axe

I have no direct in-game proof, but there are things that make it unlikely for you to be Luxon:

1) Your character has never been referred to as a Luxon, neither by the Luxons nor the Kurzicks, and both sides have allowed you to help them before you chose a faction.
2) You don't look Luxon, of course that can be just because your character does not like that look :P
3) Whenever there has been an interaction with the Luxon culture and such (such as at the Convocation, where Rhea explained the comming of Zhu Hanuku to you and Togo) you have been the one silently listening and learning about those things. Of course you could have known without telling, or it could be that you just didn't know that specific thing. However, the comming of Zhu Hanuku is a most important part of Luxon culture so it would be unlikely for you as a Luxon to not know about it, and why would you not tell Togo about that contest of Zhu Hanuku if you knew that that is essential in gaining the spear of Archemorous, or however it's spelled :P

Well generally you make very good points, but I think we have to agree to disagree unless you want to continue the discussion

Originally Posted by Khyr Lord of Kaoz

You're not thinking clearly. Your gender is never directly mentioned in game, but that doesn't mean you don't have one.

You're confusing a roleplaying decision with what the game STATES.

In the scene with Jin and Sousake, they speak about "that new sunspear leader", without identifying gender.

"Nice moves, has potential."

Jin's answer. No mention of gender. Does that mean your character doesn't have one?

The game mentions NOTHING about your past, pre the time you arrived at Shing Jea. Does that mean you don't have a past?

Yet, you are WEARING your guild cloak. That means you are at very LEAST an alley of the Luxon, since your guild is. Why would you be wearing that cloak, if you're not a member of that Guild. Why would you be a member of that Guild, if you weren't allied to the Luxons.

The game doesn't saddle a player with a past before the events of the game start. None of them do. This creates roleplaying opportunities for roleplayers. If you think it's unintentional, you're probably mistaken.

That I choose to use that lack of detail as a springboard is a personal choice.

But if you're wearing a guild cape, and the guild is allied and you can fight in alliance battles, how can you not consider Luxons your allies?

When you can explain why my character is wearing a cape from a Luxon allied guild, yet he's not a luxon or a luxon ally, I'll be happy to take the consider the rest of your argument.

Originally Posted by Sword Hammer Axe

Don't say that I'm not thinking clearly because I am. You don't have to insult me to get your point through.

You clearly ARE an ally of the Luxons, but that doesn't mean you ARE a Luxon. There is no in game proof that you are in fact Luxon, while there are things that, without proving you aren't, speak against that you are Luxon of origin.

When it comes to gender: You chose a gender as soon as you made your character therefore your character is of that gender. There really doesn't need more proof than that.

It's fine if you want to chose a roleplaying past for your character, I do that myself in fact. But the game can in no way take responsibility for that personal decision of yours, so they can not do anything about these flaws of fighting your own faction since those flaws are not related to the game but to your personal decision of being Luxon.

As far as the game concerns you are only an ally of the Luxons, no more, no less. And since there is a clear difference of being allied to a faction than actually being one of them you will be treated as an ally.