Please all stop whining that Anet should give everyone points and stuff quickly, because, thats what the thread is all about, the distribution system is broke.
They are not going to distribute all the points by hand, because that takes ages.
Xunlai Tournament House News
Cursed by Grenth
jray14
I hope that while they're fixing the XTH, they fix the problem with the 1v1 such that 2/3 of the player names change after you save your picks. That's just sloppy coding there and makes it almost impossible to share advice on picks:
A. "So I think Beebleschnobber's a good bet for top 4."
B. "Um, I don't see any Beebleschnobber on the roster."
A. "Oh, of course, his alias is LeetNoobpouncer IlIlIlI, so just pick that and then you'll see it show up as Beebleschnobber after you save it."
B. /facepalm
A. "So I think Beebleschnobber's a good bet for top 4."
B. "Um, I don't see any Beebleschnobber on the roster."
A. "Oh, of course, his alias is LeetNoobpouncer IlIlIlI, so just pick that and then you'll see it show up as Beebleschnobber after you save it."
B. /facepalm
esthetic
Response (GM CherryViper) 07/02/2009 03:28 PM
Hello,
The Development Team is continuing to investigating the code for the Xunlai Tournament House. In order to accurately distribute points from June 18 the underlying issues with the Xunlai Tournament House will need to be resolved first. As soon as the code has been fixed the points from June 18 will automatically be distributed.
We will continue to keep you informed as we get more information or as soon as we know when the Xunlai Tournament House will be available again. For additional updates you can also visit the following website. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User:...naobra/Journal
Thank you,
GM CherryViper
The Guild Wars Support Team
I actually like this response. It has a different tone from the prior responses.
Hello,
The Development Team is continuing to investigating the code for the Xunlai Tournament House. In order to accurately distribute points from June 18 the underlying issues with the Xunlai Tournament House will need to be resolved first. As soon as the code has been fixed the points from June 18 will automatically be distributed.
We will continue to keep you informed as we get more information or as soon as we know when the Xunlai Tournament House will be available again. For additional updates you can also visit the following website. http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/User:...naobra/Journal
Thank you,
GM CherryViper
The Guild Wars Support Team
I actually like this response. It has a different tone from the prior responses.
Tender Wolf
^^^ Just got that in my email. Same runaround "we're working on it". How about some real news, like it's fixed for good? kthx
Lishy
I'd like to see all you guys code for GW rather than bitching about how hard it is.
GW is a huge, HUGE game with a messy coding as well.
It's much harder than you think...
GW is a huge, HUGE game with a messy coding as well.
It's much harder than you think...
Coney
Hmm, still no update for the XTH in-game (no zkeys for me!), post-dragon festival update...
Cacheelma
Quote:
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Originally Posted by nkuvu
I'm a software developer with about eight years of experience. So what I say must automatically be true, right?
Not only is this not a verifiable statement (although I assure you that I am a developer), it means nothing in terms of what I know of ArenaNet code. For the record, I've been working on embedded systems, which is low level code that most people don't even think about. Specifically, the majority of the time I've been working, it's been on a digital controller for a jet engine. So... what do I know about web programming and database work? Almost nothing. But I'm a developer! I must know my stuff and I can easily assess the complexity of the problem without knowing a thing about the setup! At my company, we're currently working on a relatively simple task. It has taken over six months just because of the quantity of work involved. It's not rocket science, but it does take time. We originally estimated that it would take a few weeks. But oh hey, as we go through this, we're finding more and more problems that people have been overlooking for years (the software we're working on has been in development for almost a decade, which includes updating it to put onto other planes). Experience as a developer does not automatically make you an expert on all things computer related, sorry. |
It's a good thing they're fixing it, that's for sure. It's a shame that it doesn't work correctly though. But the lame excuses such as "it's hard" is just that, LAME.
SUPERMAN`
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Originally Posted by Tender Wolf
^^^ Just got that in my email. Same runaround "we're working on it". How about some real news, like it's fixed for good? kthx
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And how can they give us real new like that if it isn't fixed?
nkuvu
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Originally Posted by Cacheelma
I said it before and I'll say it again; WHO CARES how hard it is for Anet to fix bug/solve problems/whatever? Are we, as customers, supposed to have some sympathy for THE COMPANY we paid our money to?
It's a good thing they're fixing it, that's for sure. It's a shame that it doesn't work correctly though. But the lame excuses such as "it's hard" is just that, LAME. |
I'm not suggesting that people cry their eyes out over the horrible evil work that the developers have to do, just have a little bit of patience.
(I should also point out that the post you quoted was in reference to a post that has since been deleted, so it looks a little out of place, and I apologize if it causes any confusion)
Amnel Ithtirsol
Anyway... I've worked with Lith for the last 10 years and, let me tell you, in that time we have come across database designs straight from hell. We've had clients in industries as diverse as engineering, accounting, medical, mining, government departments, e-commerce.. heck, even online gambling, lol. What he wrote here is an opinion only, yes, but at least I feel it's a semi-informed one given his experience.
Anyway... The point of all this is that the XTH system seems to have been flawed from the start. Nobody knows exactly why that happened but when they released the new and improved XTH we expected much much more than what was deleivered.
Free to play, yes... it has it's merits, obviously, but frankly I feel a business model like this just cannot sustain itself in the long term.
Little/No income = Little/No updates = Little/No community.
And so it dies.
If they decided to make GW2 pay to play I'd probably be more convinced than I am right now. At least then you can expect proper development, testing and timely roll-out of updates because they will have the income to hire enough quality resources for the task. This isn't to say that the current developers are not trying their best. I really believe they are, the workload is just too high for them and things slip through the cracks.
Lets hope parents, NCSoft took all of this as a little life-lesson. Lets hope they make the required changes before GW2's release... because the game has the potential to be GREAT.
Anyway... The point of all this is that the XTH system seems to have been flawed from the start. Nobody knows exactly why that happened but when they released the new and improved XTH we expected much much more than what was deleivered.
Free to play, yes... it has it's merits, obviously, but frankly I feel a business model like this just cannot sustain itself in the long term.
Little/No income = Little/No updates = Little/No community.
And so it dies.
If they decided to make GW2 pay to play I'd probably be more convinced than I am right now. At least then you can expect proper development, testing and timely roll-out of updates because they will have the income to hire enough quality resources for the task. This isn't to say that the current developers are not trying their best. I really believe they are, the workload is just too high for them and things slip through the cracks.
Lets hope parents, NCSoft took all of this as a little life-lesson. Lets hope they make the required changes before GW2's release... because the game has the potential to be GREAT.
zwei2stein
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Originally Posted by Amnel Ithtirsol
Anyway... The point of all this is that the XTH system seems to have been flawed from the start. Nobody knows exactly why that happened but when they released the new and improved XTH we expected much much more than what was delivered.
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But it worked, and issues were being resolved. Rewriting anything just asks for trouble because with bad code you are also throwing out bugfixes and introducing brand new bugs.
edit: There is question that we ask every software engineer: Would you rewrite flawed code that works? Answering "yes" means you are not hired because you are going to be huge liability. Reimplementing stuff on basis of being flawed is not enough to justify risks for our customers (banks & insurance companies, fyi).
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Originally Posted by Cacheelma
I said it before and I'll say it again; WHO CARES how hard it is for Anet to fix bug/solve problems/whatever? Are we, as customers, supposed to have some sympathy for THE COMPANY we paid our money to?
It's a good thing they're fixing it, that's for sure. It's a shame that it doesn't work correctly though. But the lame excuses such as "it's hard" is just that, LAME. |
Trinity Fire Angel
my account is still stuck. unable to make predictions (still stuck on last monthts) and unable to receive points. last month was the first time i had ever done predictions.
Fril Estelin
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Originally Posted by zwei2stein
edit: There is question that we ask every software engineer: Would you rewrite flawed code that works? Answering "yes" means you are not hired because you are going to be huge liability. Reimplementing stuff on basis of being flawed is not enough to justify risks for our customers (banks & insurance companies, fyi).
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(this board makes you sarcastic, doesn't it?)
Quote:
| Who cares about sympathy? What about basic understanding of situation? You know what is lame? Your inability to understand that it takes time and effort, stuff that has nothing to do with excuses but a lot to do with reality. |
<unsarcastic mode>
It's about expectations. Anet has done so much over the years, that players don't even realise it anymore and expect constantly more and better. But there's always been a constant on GWG: very few people understand the complexity of GW's software architecture.
I'd like to know who originally developed the XTH. Linsey mentioned it in a recent wikipost, but she forgot to put the name of the person/company in her post
</unsarcastic mode>
Amnel Ithtirsol
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Originally Posted by zwei2stein
Flawed? Sure, it was very poorly designed, it took simple look in sources to see implied horribleness in server side code (sessions, use damn sessions, not forms where you keep resending login info!).
But it worked, and issues were being resolved. Rewriting anything just asks for trouble because with bad code you are also throwing out bugfixes and introducing brand new bugs. edit: There is question that we ask every software engineer: Would you rewrite flawed code that works? Answering "yes" means you are not hired because you are going to be huge liability. Reimplementing stuff on basis of being flawed is not enough to justify risks for our customers (banks & insurance companies, fyi). Who cares about sympathy? What about basic understanding of situation? You know what is lame? Your inability to understand that it takes time and effort, stuff that has nothing to do with excuses but a lot to do with reality. |
No, wait... that's not true.
in fact, it 'worked' so well that every month we had huge amounts of cheer here on Guru because everyone who predicted received their accurately calculated points on time. Every time.
Inde
I'd actually like to keep this thread open so that players can get information and be informed. But this thread has turned into an epeen contest between various occupations, flame wars on how stupid one such person or another is, and horribly exaggerated posts on why we should/should not be outraged.
Please stay on topic and contributing. Debate and discussion is possible without throwing in a few insults.
Please stay on topic and contributing. Debate and discussion is possible without throwing in a few insults.
esthetic
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Amnel Ithtirsol
Great, someone else here with an opinion. GG
You'll probably also get your post deleted. Anyway... I've worked with Lith for the last 10 years and, let me tell you, in that time we have come across database designs straight from hell. We've had clients in industries as diverse as engineering, accounting, medical, mining, government departments, e-commerce.. heck, even online gambling, lol. What he wrote here is an opinion only, yes, but at least I feel it's a semi-informed one given his experience. Anyway... The point of all this is that the XTH system seems to have been flawed from the start. Nobody knows exactly why that happened but when they released the new and improved XTH we expected much much more than what was deleivered. Free to play, yes... it has it's merits, obviously, but frankly I feel a business model like this just cannot sustain itself in the long term. Little/No income = Little/No updates = Little/No community. And so it dies. If they decided to make GW2 pay to play I'd probably be more convinced than I am right now. At least then you can expect proper development, testing and timely roll-out of updates because they will have the income to hire enough quality resources for the task. This isn't to say that the current developers are not trying their best. I really believe they are, the workload is just too high for them and things slip through the cracks. Lets hope parents, NCSoft took all of this as a little life-lesson. Lets hope they make the required changes before GW2's release... because the game has the potential to be GREAT. |
I would have to strongly disagree, the whole appeal of GW for me as well as the million or so other players was that it was not a Pay to Play. Guild Wars to be able to pull of this kind of game based on one time fee (albeit w/ micro transactions) in the US market was a coup!
As a business model, I don't think you are correct that one time fee w/ microtransactions and fee for expansions is doomed in the long run. Time will tell. They have people much more educated in the field of business structure set up GW fee structure. Since its a for profit company, I believe the are doing what they can to operate a money making business.
And I don't understand the contempt people seem to have with paying for micro transactions in game (purchased by choice) but at the same time accept and embrace a pay to play structure(forced payment to play).
Tender Wolf
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Originally Posted by esthetic
IDK if this too off topic, but so you are saying, that XTH screw up is an indication that ANet should go Pay to Play in GW2? That you would prefer pay to play over current structure in GW2?
I would have to strongly disagree, the whole appeal of GW for me as well as the million or so other players was that it was not a Pay to Play. Guild Wars to be able to pull of this kind of game based on one time fee (albeit w/ micro transactions) in the US market was a coup! And I don't understand the contempt people seem to have with paying for micro transactions in game (purchased by choice) but at the same time accept and embrace a pay to play structure(forced payment to play). |
![[DE]](/static/static/../Img/avatar38220_14.gif){kind=avatar}
[DE]
I think Anet has found their niche with the new micro transactions they recently implemented.
Ebony Shadowheart
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Originally Posted by Kain Fz
I'd like to see all you guys code for GW rather than bitching about how hard it is.
GW is a huge, HUGE game with a messy coding as well. It's much harder than you think... |
I agree that coding for GW, and sometimes coding in general is much harder than it seems, but all the people care about is their free stuff. 'Gimme Gimme Gimme' is all they care about. What is being handed to them next.
Personally I have no issue waiting patiently for the XTH to be fixed. I'll just go about my gaming like normal until I can start using it again.
Targren
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Originally Posted by zwei2stein
There is question that we ask every software engineer: Would you rewrite flawed code that works?
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Daesu
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Originally Posted by Kain Fz
I'd like to see all you guys code for GW rather than bitching about how hard it is.
GW is a huge, HUGE game with a messy coding as well. It's much harder than you think... |
It should be based on a form of competitive natural selection. The gamer who writes the "best" code would have more people choosing to use his/her game plugin. This way, the game updates with new content alot more often.
Swehurn
One question...
We're still waiting to ensure that they're able to ACCURATELY distribute XTH points...but what happens with the people who already got points that they didn't deserve?
We're still waiting to ensure that they're able to ACCURATELY distribute XTH points...but what happens with the people who already got points that they didn't deserve?
persuadu
It's been a week since we have heard from ANET on this as far as I can see. Has their been any news elsewhere? If not, can you give us an update Regina?
Still Number One
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Originally Posted by persuadu
It's been a week since we have heard from ANET on this as far as I can see. Has their been any news elsewhere? If not, can you give us an update Regina?
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tuna-fish_sushi
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Originally Posted by Still Number One
You need Regina to tell you every single week that they are working on the problem? When it is fixed they will tell you so. It isn't like they decided to stop working on it. They are working on the problem and attempting to fix it. What else is there to say? Just be patient.
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If you bring your car in for repair and its been almost a month and they have not updated you about it in a week, wouldn't you complain?
Still Number One
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Originally Posted by tuna-fish_sushi
Uhmm yes? They sold me something with a flaw and I would like it to be fixed. If a business can't update me at least once a week on a flaw they are working on, then I will lose interest in that business.
If you bring your car in for repair and its been almost a month and they have not updated you about it in a week, wouldn't you complain? |
And sorry but cars don't even take a week to repair unless it was completely totaled. If you are taking it to the mechanic it is normally because something isn't working properly and they diagnose the problem and you order a replacement part within a few hours. It really only takes a day or two at the most. So I wouldn't need to complain because that situation would never happen. I only put my car in the hands of people who I trust.
And don't even say they should start telling everyone hey we are coding this, and changing this code and it should be done within x amount of days. First off, hardly anyone would understand programming language so it is useless to point that out. Secondly they should never give an estimate on when it will be complete because that just sets up disappointment if it isn't complete when they predicted it would be. The smart choice is to not release any information until it is fixed. don't release what the problem is and what you changed until you are all done and sure it is working. Because even though you may think you found the problem now, when you go to implement the system you may realize that wasn't even the issue to begin with.
All you need to know is they are fixing it and you do know that. Stop complaining and just wait.
esthetic
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Originally Posted by Still Number One
You really want them to update you with, hey we're fixing it, every single week? Seriously what else can they say. It's being worked on like it has been for the past couple of weeks and it isn't done yet. They don't need an update every week to tell you that. Any moron knows they are working on it.
And sorry but cars don't even take a week to repair unless it was completely totaled. If you are taking it to the mechanic it is normally because something isn't working properly and they diagnose the problem and you order a replacement part within a few hours. It really only takes a day or two at the most. So I wouldn't need to complain because that situation would never happen. I only put my car in the hands of people who I trust. And don't even say they should start telling everyone hey we are coding this, and changing this code and it should be done within x amount of days. First off, hardly anyone would understand programming language so it is useless to point that out. Secondly they should never give an estimate on when it will be complete because that just sets up disappointment if it isn't complete when they predicted it would be. The smart choice is to not release any information until it is fixed. don't release what the problem is and what you changed until you are all done and sure it is working. Because even though you may think you found the problem now, when you go to implement the system you may realize that wasn't even the issue to begin with. All you need to know is they are fixing it and you do know that. Stop complaining and just wait. |
Now, if XTH is on the bottom of your list, you want them to fix MB ele's cause they bug the heck out of you, you should send them an email to that effect and tell people to stop complaining about XTH. xD
Still Number One
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Originally Posted by esthetic
In a perfect world where everyone does what they are supposed to do you would be correct, and we would not have a broken XTH. Unfortunately, this is not a perfect world. Consider this: the Guild Wars "Team" is working on a number of things at once. They are not just doing the XTH. It is on a list of things to do. As other things may become more pressing, the order of priority changes and some things get more attention and get done faster. By telling them what is more important they rearrange their priority (of course this is not the only factor in determining what gets done first). So if XTH is very important to you.. you should let them know. The loudest chick gets the worm.
Now, if XTH is on the bottom of your list, you want them to fix MB ele's cause they bug the heck out of you, you should send them an email to that effect and tell people to stop complaining about XTH. xD |
Jensy
You know, for all the time you spend whining about not having your TRP, you could have PvP'd for keys :P Oh noes, my free money! My heart bleeds for you, really.
Comparing this to a car isn't going to work, either. It's apples and oranges. This isn't your car that's being fixed, it's a tool used by thousands of players. Them taking their time, getting it *right* is more important than Regina going "lol yeah, still working on it". I mean, OBVIOUSLY they're still fixing it... or it'd be fixed o_O
One day I'll stop being shocked by the amount of self-entitled whining around here. That day isn't today -_-
Comparing this to a car isn't going to work, either. It's apples and oranges. This isn't your car that's being fixed, it's a tool used by thousands of players. Them taking their time, getting it *right* is more important than Regina going "lol yeah, still working on it". I mean, OBVIOUSLY they're still fixing it... or it'd be fixed o_O
One day I'll stop being shocked by the amount of self-entitled whining around here. That day isn't today -_-
esthetic
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Originally Posted by Still Number One
Where it stands on their priority list is of no concern to me and it is not what the people I'm responding to are discussing. They are just screaming about how anet isn't releasing information on a subject that there is no new information to be released about. Crying for Regina to do an update every week is not going to make the XTH be fixed faster. They know the majority of people want it to be fixed and they are working on it. It is foolish to ask for more information when they have told you everything you need to know. They will release more information when its fixed. It would be pointless to release any before that because all they can say is "Hey we are working on it" and that isn't what people want to hear. They want to hear, "Hey we're done" and they cant say that if they aren't done.
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tuna-fish_sushi
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Originally Posted by pansy malfoy
You know, for all the time you spend whining about not having your TRP, you could have PvP'd for keys :P Oh noes, my free money! My heart bleeds for you, really.
Comparing this to a car isn't going to work, either. It's apples and oranges. This isn't your car that's being fixed, it's a tool used by thousands of players. Them taking their time, getting it *right* is more important than Regina going "lol yeah, still working on it". I mean, OBVIOUSLY they're still fixing it... or it'd be fixed o_O One day I'll stop being shocked by the amount of self-entitled whining around here. That day isn't today -_- |
Also, XTH is a feature we benefit from. Much like air conditioning for your house. Its not required but it is appreciated. (Bring on more analogy hate... sigh ><)
Again, its been almost a month. They have the numbers of how many points each person should get. They should have handed out the points by now. I can understand if it can take a while to fix the whole system, but handing out the points should be cake.
Still Number One
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Originally Posted by esthetic
I hope, I am not falling into the trap of "my post is quoted so I have to respond" knee jerk, but... I was on point, people by asking for a status is an expression of "c'mon already get the thing fixed!" And by people expressing their interest in this may indeed make ANet fix this faster.. That was my whole point. xD
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I guess I just believe they are doing everything they can as fast and efficiently as they are allowed to and am content with that. Others obviously aren't.
Cacheelma
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Originally Posted by Still Number One
I guess I just believe they are doing everything they can as fast and efficiently as they are allowed to and am content with that.
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Still Number One
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Originally Posted by Cacheelma
I miss the days when I was as naive.
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BenjZee
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Originally Posted by pansy malfoy
You know, for all the time you spend whining about not having your TRP, you could have PvP'd for keys :P Oh noes, my free money! My heart bleeds for you, really.
Comparing this to a car isn't going to work, either. It's apples and oranges. This isn't your car that's being fixed, it's a tool used by thousands of players. Them taking their time, getting it *right* is more important than Regina going "lol yeah, still working on it". I mean, OBVIOUSLY they're still fixing it... or it'd be fixed o_O One day I'll stop being shocked by the amount of self-entitled whining around here. That day isn't today -_- |
persuadu
What is the point of having a Community Manager if not to communicate to the community about the status of issues with the game.
And yes you right when you say "Much like air conditioning for your house. Its not required but it is appreciated." But then again people don't buy three extra houses just for the Air Conditioning either, but ZTH was a marketing tool to get people to buy extra accounts.
This issue has been going on for almost a month. Any one who knows anything about business and customers knows that the longer it takes to fix a problem, the more you need to communicate with your customers.
Seriously how hard is it to post a paragaraph telling us where they are at with the problem? All you folks make it seem like I am asking her to sacrifice her cat to get on here and make a post! It is her job after all. All I am saying is keep us informed as to where they are at with the issues. I don't expect estimated unless she has some credible ones, just some reassurance and community relations.
And yes you right when you say "Much like air conditioning for your house. Its not required but it is appreciated." But then again people don't buy three extra houses just for the Air Conditioning either, but ZTH was a marketing tool to get people to buy extra accounts.
This issue has been going on for almost a month. Any one who knows anything about business and customers knows that the longer it takes to fix a problem, the more you need to communicate with your customers.
Seriously how hard is it to post a paragaraph telling us where they are at with the problem? All you folks make it seem like I am asking her to sacrifice her cat to get on here and make a post! It is her job after all. All I am saying is keep us informed as to where they are at with the issues. I don't expect estimated unless she has some credible ones, just some reassurance and community relations.
SkekSister
So much whine. Where's the cheese?
Anet give masses more than the vast majority of developers and have a far more professional attitude and service than most. "Mediocre at best performance"? You really are living in a bubble aren't you. I've worked across various games developers for a decade and I can tell you from experience that compared to the vast majority of them Anet have exceptional level of performance.
"Seriously how hard is it to post a paragaraph <sic> telling us where they are at with the problem?"
You don't update people with the same news. It's not an update then is it. Telling people the same thing over and over winds them up. Anet know its broken, they are fixing it as fast as they can. They will tell us when its done. Regina reads these forums, she will give us news when there is news to be given.
Anet give masses more than the vast majority of developers and have a far more professional attitude and service than most. "Mediocre at best performance"? You really are living in a bubble aren't you. I've worked across various games developers for a decade and I can tell you from experience that compared to the vast majority of them Anet have exceptional level of performance.
"Seriously how hard is it to post a paragaraph <sic> telling us where they are at with the problem?"
You don't update people with the same news. It's not an update then is it. Telling people the same thing over and over winds them up. Anet know its broken, they are fixing it as fast as they can. They will tell us when its done. Regina reads these forums, she will give us news when there is news to be given.
firefox74
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| We're digging into the code for XTH. Know that we're continuing to plug away at it. Incidentally, the folks working on Xunlai, have been drafted in to help with this, meaning that they are not full time on GW1 either, so their time must be scheduled carefully as well. |
Make them Full time on XTH until it's fixed the more time they use at it the faster it get's fixed....
esthetic
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Originally Posted by SkekSister
*snip*You don't update people with the same news. It's not an update then is it. Telling people the same thing over and over winds them up. Anet know its broken, they are fixing it as fast as they can. They will tell us when its done. Regina reads these forums, she will give us news when there is news to be given.
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EinherjarMx
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Originally Posted by firefox74
Make them Full time on XTH until it's fixed the more time they use at it the faster it get's fixed....
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ROFLMAO, thanks you made my day
its easy, they gave it for free so they can take it too, stop bitching and wait.
and before people start with the "hey, I paid over 9000 bucks to get my GW…" XTH is not advertised as a feature on any of the gw chapters