Guild Wars is known for its relatively fast paced and (player) skill based pvp. In its current form I don't believe Defy Pain reflects that. Unless you bring very specific counters (mainly VoR or empathy) it takes ages to kill a Defy warrior, even with 10 pips of degen and general melee counters like blind and curses - which take up to 20 seconds to sink in. If they couldn't do anything besides tank infinite damage that would be fine, but the sad fact is that they can still do things, so killing them is as important as any other player.
I'm not against the skill being a damage reduction + max hp buff, but it's over the top in its current 20 second duration, easily maintainable, unremovable form. By all means, let people tank pve and npcs with it, but either open up some more counters to it so that teams with a good set of general utility can deal with it, or tone it down. Quite frankly, it single-handedly makes pvp at times annoying and frustrating - not because I made a mistake or someone played better than me - but because someone decided to bring a griefing elite that I can't do anything about.
Some ideas: Make it a stance. Reduce the adren cost to 4 (it already is with Lion's Comfort, which every DP has) and reduce the duration to 10 seconds. Give it an activation. Give it a conditional end like using another adrenaline skill.
There's a plethora of other things that could be done to fairly balance it. I'm just tired of good Factions format pvp being ruined by having 3+ Defy wars on the other team that constantly halt gameplay to kill another Defy war...again.
If this has been posted before, sorry, the search function is disabled at the moment, and I'm not gonna look past the first 4 pages.
Defy Pain is a drag
SilentVex
ajc2123
I'm not sure How i feel about defy pain...
It's true that they are annoying to kill and can still put out a decent dps (not good enough for spikes though imo) but then again I still can't see using an elite for damage reduction enough to use it.
For PvE its fine....not sure how I feel about pvp.
Perhaps if it needs a nerf, just give it a -X damage clause kinda like shadowform? Like "While under defy pain you do -20...7 damage in melee"?
It's true that they are annoying to kill and can still put out a decent dps (not good enough for spikes though imo) but then again I still can't see using an elite for damage reduction enough to use it.
For PvE its fine....not sure how I feel about pvp.
Perhaps if it needs a nerf, just give it a -X damage clause kinda like shadowform? Like "While under defy pain you do -20...7 damage in melee"?
Helix Dreadlock
It's fine in PvE, so make a PvP version. Make it 1 second activation, 7 adren, and a stance.
Problem fixed ^_^
(Note:PVP ONLY VERION PLEASE! lol
Problem fixed ^_^
(Note:PVP ONLY VERION PLEASE! lol
![[Morkai]](/static/static/../Img/avatar144860_1.gif){kind=avatar}
[Morkai]
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Originally Posted by Helix Dreadlock
It's fine in PvE, so make a PvP version. Make it 1 second activation, 7 adren, and a stance.
Problem fixed ^_^ (Note:PVP ONLY VERION PLEASE! lol |
Evil Eye
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Originally Posted by Helix Dreadlock
It's fine in PvE, so make a PvP version. Make it 1 second activation, 7 adren, and a stance.
Problem fixed ^_^ (Note:PVP ONLY VERION PLEASE! lol |
Helix Dreadlock
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Originally Posted by [Morkai]
1 second activation on a stance? Right...
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Breakfast Mc Rit
I would normally say "all you gotta do is disable it before they can activate it", but it really does need a PvP nerf because it really is frustrating to see 4/5 allies tunnel visioning on a single target. Maybe keep everything the same but give it 25...15% less dmg and/or 10% speed decrease while it's active.
Helix Dreadlock
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Originally Posted by Breakfast Mc Rit
I would normally say "all you gotta do is disable it before they can activate it", but it really does need a PvP nerf because it really is frustrating to see 4/5 allies tunnel visioning on a single target. Maybe keep everything the same but give it 25...15% less dmg and/or 10% speed decrease while it's active.
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vamp08
Go ahead, nerf it in PvP. If it it gets wrecked for a 4th time in PvE I won't be purchasing GW2.
Why does everyone insist on slowly taking away the warriors abilities to...uh...TANK? Overall, warriors need no balancing; every other class does. SO LEAVE US ALONE!
If anything I would say buff it out the roof in PvE to compete with all the cheating perma sins.
Why does everyone insist on slowly taking away the warriors abilities to...uh...TANK? Overall, warriors need no balancing; every other class does. SO LEAVE US ALONE!
If anything I would say buff it out the roof in PvE to compete with all the cheating perma sins.
Regulus X
/notsigned.. Defy Pain is inferior to spike warrior utility builds. Standard anti-melee hexes work just fine, so does blind, block and cripple to prevent them from building adrenaline. Once they're debuffed, pommel then to win. So, stop your whining and just do it right.
Shayne Hawke
I hate tanking as a general concept. Anything to ruin its ability to do such is a plus for me.
I don't know why you would want to nerf it in PvP though anyways. Nobody serious in PvP plays a tank.
I don't know why you would want to nerf it in PvP though anyways. Nobody serious in PvP plays a tank.
MetalMan
The only time i've seen it run is by people in RA and the few lulz players in GvG (like that guy in nH)
either way, its not actually that good, and lowers a warriors dps immensely... if your having problems killing it, kill something else, it can't kill you.
either way, its not actually that good, and lowers a warriors dps immensely... if your having problems killing it, kill something else, it can't kill you.
Div
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Originally Posted by Shayne Hawke
I don't know why you would want to nerf it in PvP though anyways. Nobody serious in PvP plays a tank.
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IronSheik
I'm guessing this is a lame RA/AB/NotRealPvp Issure
AB=Tab
Anywhere else=Diversion
And if you make defy pain a stance you're pretty much smiter booning it
AB=Tab
Anywhere else=Diversion
And if you make defy pain a stance you're pretty much smiter booning it
Regulus X
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Originally Posted by IronSheik
I'm guessing this is a lame RA/AB/NotRealPvp Issure
AB=Tab Anywhere else=Diversion And if you make defy pain a stance you're pretty much smiter booning it |
Reverend Dr
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Originally Posted by Regulus X
Standard anti-melee hexes work just fine, so does blind, block and cripple to prevent them from building adrenaline.
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Right now defy pain is a non-issue. However its one of those skills that is useless at the moment, but if its niche is ever needed, it will be something disgustingly overpowered. 20 damage reduction that cannot be stripped, cannot be interrupted, cannot be e-drained, and cannot be circumvented is a mechanic that should just not be in this game.
dusanyu
Defy pain is Fine
1
clearly a low end PvP problem 90% of the problem in low end PvP is no healers so a warrior has to bring in a couple self survival skills to be effective. Can you blame them because it sounds like your being lame and stacking annoying little hexes. The way I see it if your sitting there spamming all of your hexes on one guy you deserve to get pummeled into the ground.
2 Learn to target switch
3 learn to kite and prekite
QQless just because you could not "Lolerpown" a warrior with your Cowardly little hex and run build
1
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| even with 10 pips of degen and general melee counters like blind and curses - which take up to 20 seconds to sink in |
2 Learn to target switch
3 learn to kite and prekite
QQless just because you could not "Lolerpown" a warrior with your Cowardly little hex and run build
Tenebrae
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Originally Posted by Regulus X
/notsigned.. Defy Pain is inferior to spike warrior utility builds. Standard anti-melee hexes work just fine, so does blind, block and cripple to prevent them from building adrenaline. Once they're debuffed, pommel then to win. So, stop your whining and just do it right.
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/notsigned
Bob Slydell
Awwwwwww, It takes ages to kill a Defy Pain warrior? Too bad.
I strongly disagree.
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Originally Posted by Reverend Dr
20 damage reduction that cannot be stripped, cannot be interrupted, cannot be e-drained, and cannot be circumvented is a mechanic that should just not be in this game.
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HawkofStorms
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Originally Posted by Reverend Dr
You obviously haven't been playing in this meta. Right now it is easier than it has ever been to keep a warrior completely clean of conditions and hexes despite the increase in anti-warrior hexes and ease of applying conditions.
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I agree with Iron and Reverend. The skill is not good. It is countered by standard anti-warrior stuff and is not as effective as better warrior bars. It is a pain only if you bad teammates focus fire on him from the start rather then ignore the tank and wait until the rest of his team is dead before turning on him.
Braxton619
/notsigned
Warriors are the main class to tank. Makes sense.
Warriors are the main class to tank. Makes sense.
Arkantos
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Originally Posted by holymasamune
A lot of people don't know how to switch targets when they're c-spaced onto a defy warrior. Plus, running from a 1v1 is dishonorable, so you are required to fight a defy warrior to the death.
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On a serious note, defy pain sucks, it doesn't need a nerf. If you see a defy pain warrior and you don't change targets, you're doing something wrong.
Helix Dreadlock
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Originally Posted by MetalMan
The only time i've seen it run is by people in RA and the few lulz players in GvG (like that guy in nH)
either way, its not actually that good, and lowers a warriors dps immensely... if your having problems killing it, kill something else, it can't kill you. |
And the first part...you obviously dont JQ do you?
scruffy
thats why defy pain owns, you're eliminated from the enemy teams target selection. this means you can do whatever you want, go balls deep, tank footmen, tank lord room...its a pretty strong elite assuming your midline does enough damage to spike people down, if you're doing a pressure build you would probably want conjure/eviscerate instead.
Helix Dreadlock
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Originally Posted by scruffy
thats why defy pain owns, you're eliminated from the enemy teams target selection. this means you can do whatever you want, go balls deep, tank footmen, tank lord room...its a pretty strong elite assuming your midline does enough damage to spike people down, if you're doing a pressure build you would probably want conjure/eviscerate instead.
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Owik Gall
Defy Pain warriors can last longer, but they aren't invincible, especially if they are alone or their team goofs. This skill demands enemy teams to pack excruciatingly devastating team builds. Just imagine: If a well formed party takes less than 20 seconds to kill the tank every time, than it will be quite quicker to kill anyone else. There are other ways that are probably better too, like switching targets to someone weaker.
The team will require organization, which is always encouraged over solo playing. If you catch a tank solo playing and kill it with your team than bad for the tank, but if you solo the tank or keep trying to kill it when you know you can't, than that's bad on you. If the latter is the case than you need to work on your strategies better.
The skill forces enemies to think wiser about the skills they are using and the formation of their team. Any good, or even decent team can kill off a tank, or better yet its entire team. Even if the tank has healers on it, you can still win the battle by chosing your targets right (aim for the squishes that are foolishly ignored by the healers healing the tank.) Remember, the tank is just a body block decoy with the purpose of alluring the whole enemy team to attack it and endure as much damage as it can. So, ignore it until it's the last one standing, or make a team that can kill it in short time via hex stack murder and constant blinding. The former is preferred, though.
Oh yeah, I almost forgot. /notsigned
The team will require organization, which is always encouraged over solo playing. If you catch a tank solo playing and kill it with your team than bad for the tank, but if you solo the tank or keep trying to kill it when you know you can't, than that's bad on you. If the latter is the case than you need to work on your strategies better.
The skill forces enemies to think wiser about the skills they are using and the formation of their team. Any good, or even decent team can kill off a tank, or better yet its entire team. Even if the tank has healers on it, you can still win the battle by chosing your targets right (aim for the squishes that are foolishly ignored by the healers healing the tank.) Remember, the tank is just a body block decoy with the purpose of alluring the whole enemy team to attack it and endure as much damage as it can. So, ignore it until it's the last one standing, or make a team that can kill it in short time via hex stack murder and constant blinding. The former is preferred, though.
Oh yeah, I almost forgot. /notsigned
YunSooJin
lol wahhh pvp nerf i'm too scrub to interrupt a heal sig.
oh wait, people are crying because all they do is playing scrub-pvp formats where defy pain even matters.. fail
oh wait, people are crying because all they do is playing scrub-pvp formats where defy pain even matters.. fail
refer
Well they are defying pain.
what if you have defy pain too?
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Originally Posted by Arkantos
On a serious note, defy pain sucks, it doesn't need a nerf. If you see a defy pain warrior and you don't change targets, you're doing something wrong.
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Breakfast Mc Rit
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Originally Posted by Helix Dreadlock
or make it a stance, plenty of skills can remove it, AND affect it. Being a skill, it cannot be touched.
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It's easy enough to counter Defy Pain, I'm just acknowledging the fact that it's an annoying target (read: when half your teammates are wasting their time trying to kill it while they could be doing something useful) and should be nerfed slightly to make it less effective to use when dealing damage or chasing down a kiting monk.
Taixen
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Originally Posted by refer
Well they are defying pain.
what if you have defy pain too? |
As said, wasting your elite on defense is somewhat pointless when there are far more effective alternatives in PvP as Warrior's should NOT be tanking, definately in PvP. (Although sadly, the AI tends to be better at recognising AoE than most people you'll meet in RA)
Sarevok Thordin
Here's what I think
Nerf the damn thing in PvP, it's a complete annoyance.
It can be used in PvE fine enough, but change it for PvP, make it a stance or something, the thing is driving people up the wall in it's current form....
Nerf the damn thing in PvP, it's a complete annoyance.
It can be used in PvE fine enough, but change it for PvP, make it a stance or something, the thing is driving people up the wall in it's current form....
IronSheik
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Originally Posted by Helix Dreadlock
How does it lower his dps immensely, really?
And the first part...you obviously dont JQ do you? |
Most run a tanking/stance build along with it and lions comfort/Heal sig to keep them alive furever.
Also, the elite and frenzy are the basis of a warrior PvP build (Most of the time)
So by bringing defy pain, there's no more Eviscerate, Earth Shaker, Devastating hammer, Nothing, just a preservation skill, so it does lower DPS and versatility immensely.
Second of all, JQ is pve with some real people running around. Defy Pain sucks here too, because if you're attacking a warrior that does nothing to keep NPCs alive, you're doing JQ wrong
Helix Dreadlock
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Originally Posted by IronSheik
First, it's rare to see a warrior with an axe bar with Defy pain as the elite
Most run a tanking/stance build along with it and lions comfort/Heal sig to keep them alive furever. Also, the elite and frenzy are the basis of a warrior PvP build (Most of the time) So by bringing defy pain, there's no more Eviscerate, Earth Shaker, Devastating hammer, Nothing, just a preservation skill, so it does lower DPS and versatility immensely. Second of all, JQ is pve with some real people running around. Defy Pain sucks here too, because if you're attacking a warrior that does nothing to keep NPCs alive, you're doing JQ wrong |
Burst Cancel
Wait, so the problem with Defy Pain is that people are too stupid to switch targets? And you want to fix that by nerfing Defy Pain instead of fixing the actual problem (learn2play)?
In what universe is balancing a game around your worst players a good idea?
In what universe is balancing a game around your worst players a good idea?
Reverend Dr
I'm not talking about a meta in which defy pain warriors exist. I'm talking about todays current meta.
Blind used to only be able to be applied with bflash, now it is much easier with B-surge or glyph + steam. Yet with smite condition, foul feast, or simply clarity + shield, it is easier to deal with todays condition spam than the old application. This was simply a a disagreement to someone's saying to "just run blind + anti-melee," because reality isn't that simple.
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Unremovable universal damage reduction has no place in this game. Superior absorption, knight's insignias, and shield -dmg mods were changed away from this. I'm not saying Defy Pain is currently an issue in any PvP formats, because it isn't. Right now Defy Pain has no real use and indeed it may never have a use, but it is one of many skills in the game that are either going to be useless, or far too overpowered in a niche roll. What I am trying to say is that Skills that are either going to be useless or highly exploitable have no place in competitive format.
Anet right now has a terrible history of not noticing problems before they happen and then waiting 3-6 months before they address them. If Anet would address problems as soon as they were identified, I really wouldn't care. But they don't and they won't. As such I really want all skills that have no use at all other than to be exploited in such a way to either be completely changed or flat out removed.
Blind used to only be able to be applied with bflash, now it is much easier with B-surge or glyph + steam. Yet with smite condition, foul feast, or simply clarity + shield, it is easier to deal with todays condition spam than the old application. This was simply a a disagreement to someone's saying to "just run blind + anti-melee," because reality isn't that simple.
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Unremovable universal damage reduction has no place in this game. Superior absorption, knight's insignias, and shield -dmg mods were changed away from this. I'm not saying Defy Pain is currently an issue in any PvP formats, because it isn't. Right now Defy Pain has no real use and indeed it may never have a use, but it is one of many skills in the game that are either going to be useless, or far too overpowered in a niche roll. What I am trying to say is that Skills that are either going to be useless or highly exploitable have no place in competitive format.
Anet right now has a terrible history of not noticing problems before they happen and then waiting 3-6 months before they address them. If Anet would address problems as soon as they were identified, I really wouldn't care. But they don't and they won't. As such I really want all skills that have no use at all other than to be exploited in such a way to either be completely changed or flat out removed.
themanj
nerf defy pain to speed up ab plz
ShadowsRequiem
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Originally Posted by themanj
nerf defy pain to speed up ab plz
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But really its a good tactic in ab bring defy pain tank shit and laugh while half the team of idiots try to kill you while your other 11 people cap. Forget defy pain....... Jeez I think we need to buff players AIs
Mad Lord of Milk
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Originally Posted by SilentVex
If they couldn't do anything besides tank infinite damage that would be fine, but the sad fact is that they can still do things, so killing them is as important as any other player.
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The reason Defy Pain is not as strong as you make it sound is because every warrior has basic needs (below), which Defy Pain messes up.
1. Run skill/snare/KD
2. Healing
3. Resurrection Signet
4. Damage
Along with Defy Pain, the first three things are going to take up at least 4 slots. So now you're left with (at most) 4 slots to make a build that can do at least half-assed damage with 4 regular warrior attack skills, and that's just not going to happen.
Charlotte the Harlot
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Originally Posted by Reverend Dr
Unremovable universal damage reduction has no place in this game. Superior absorption, knight's insignias, and shield -dmg mods were changed away from this. I'm not saying Defy Pain is currently an issue in any PvP formats, because it isn't. Right now Defy Pain has no real use and indeed it may never have a use, but it is one of many skills in the game that are either going to be useless, or far too overpowered in a niche roll. What I am trying to say is that Skills that are either going to be useless or highly exploitable have no place in competitive format. Anet right now has a terrible history of not noticing problems before they happen and then waiting 3-6 months before they address them. If Anet would address problems as soon as they were identified, I really wouldn't care. But they don't and they won't. As such I really want all skills that have no use at all other than to be exploited in such a way to either be completely changed or flat out removed. |
Ghost Dog
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Originally Posted by Helix Dreadlock
(Note:PVP ONLY VERION PLEASE! lol
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