Developer Update - July K-value Update - Guild Wars Guru archive powered by Guild Wars Legacy

Karate Jesus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2008

Texas

Reign of Judgment [RoJ]

Me/

09 Jul 2009 at 23:01 - 1

Quote:

This month we opted not to make any skill balance changes. Since the last skill balance was only a couple of weeks ago, we want to keep monitoring the changes we've already made before we adjust any more skills. However, we have increased the K-value of rated matches in GvG and Hero Battles from 5 to 15.

K-value determines how much your rating can change in a single battle. Two years ago, we lowered the K-value of rated matches to encourage participation in Automated Tournaments where the K-value is much higher. The competitive nature of these tournaments makes it difficult for mid-level and casual players to build their ratings and, at such a low K-value, rated matches weren't offering a compelling alternative.

By increasing the K-value of rated matches, we hope to make rated play a friendlier environment in which to increase your rating.

What do you guys think?

Xsiriss

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2008

09 Jul 2009 at 23:03 - 2

'This month we opted not to make any skill balance changes. Since the last skill balance was only a couple of weeks ago, we want to keep monitoring the changes we've already made before we adjust any more skills',quoted from the guild wars website...

So they change some stuff and think their work is done? I fail to see what needs monitering, a lot were reaction nerfs and the stuff done to paragons and rits was overdue and just one step in the right direction.

What do the masses think?

edit:frickin started a thread with this...

'd

StormDragonZ

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2008

New York

W/R

09 Jul 2009 at 23:04 - 3

Honestly, since it is PvP, I have no reason to care.

I'll just wait patiently for something PvE related to happen.

Quote:

friendlier environment

This phrase made me giggle.

MMSDome

Raged Out

Join Date: Sep 2005

09 Jul 2009 at 23:06 - 4

They are insane if they think increasing the rating gain/loss will make it a friendlier environment.

At least in HB people are going to rage even more when they lose.

Neo Nugget

Site Contributor

Join Date: Jan 2006

R/

09 Jul 2009 at 23:06 - 5

Alright, nothing really exciting, but nothing bad either. Was kind of surprised when the game updated when I started playing.....got me a little excited.

StormDragonZ

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jan 2008

New York

W/R

09 Jul 2009 at 23:07 - 6

GvG requires attention. Accept it and deal with it.

PvE comes another day. Accept that and deal with that.

Karate Jesus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2008

Texas

Reign of Judgment [RoJ]

Me/

09 Jul 2009 at 23:08 - 7

I'm a little disappointed in the lack of a skill update and no XTH points, but I guess I'll just wait another month to play again. No big deal.

MetalMan

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Apr 2007

Some Guild.

W/Mo

09 Jul 2009 at 23:09 - 8

I got excited.

Then i realised this was the update, the k-value of matches. Nothing else.

Then i lul'd.

Xsiriss

Jungle Guide

Join Date: May 2008

09 Jul 2009 at 23:09 - 9

Yeh which is why i'm wondering why they don't work on the PvP aspect whilst waiting to see what happens from their previous pve tweaks...

Aerial Assault

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Jun 2007

IGN: Ingame Notoriety

09 Jul 2009 at 23:10 - 10

Quote:

By increasing the K-value of rated matches, we hope to make rated play a friendlier environment in which to increase your rating.

Unless I understood this wrong, ladder ranking is significantly more affected by winning or losing. I would think that this would make for a more competitive environment as opposed to "friendlier" .

Sadchaos

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2008

09 Jul 2009 at 23:10 - 11

Anet never fails at failing. Get off your lazy asses and do something. Now I know I'm going to get a bunch of idiots who are going to respond to this and say "Anet does a lot, you should be happy with what you get!" No, screw that. There are SO many issues in Guild Wars that have been around for months now. Not even a touch.

PvE:
Shadowform. Everybody constantly cries over this skill and I don't blame them.
Discord. Ez mode PvE.
Save Yourselves!. another Ez mode PvE

PvP:
Mindblast Eles in GvG. Infinite energy.
Heroes in GvG and HA.

These are just a few off the top of my head. All of these have been problems for months even a few for years now, and still nothing has been done.

GG ANet. If you keep failing this hard you have no future in gaming.

[DE]

Hugs and Kisses

Join Date: Oct 2005

Scars Meadows

09 Jul 2009 at 23:13 - 12

It's sad that the community fails to understand the actual complexity of skill balancing. I should dig up an interview of Izzy talking about the actual process and why it's tougher than you'd think.

ele pl

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2007

E/

09 Jul 2009 at 23:14 - 13

Wow, thats actualy pretty awesome update.

Why?

Because they didnt break anything.

Still Number One

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2008

W/

09 Jul 2009 at 23:15 - 14

Changing the K-value of ladder matches won't effect people's attitudes toward the game but that is not important. What is important is that it makes ladder somewhat important (but not really). Increasing the K-value may give some guilds more reason to start playing ladder decreasing the wait times that make laddering pointless to do. However I doubt it, because all that matters is the mAT and ladder rank means nothing when it comes to the mAT. If you had to have a certain rating to qualify for the mAT and they reset the ladder every month, then it might mean something. But I don't really think that would be a great idea.

So all-in-all, it is cool but it won't bring people back to the game. Nothing will though short of real life prizes and free trips to Leipzig.

Sadchaos

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: May 2008

09 Jul 2009 at 23:15 - 15

Quote:

Originally Posted by [DE]

It's sad that the community fails to understand the actual complexity of skill balancing. I should dig up an interview of Izzy talking about the actual process and why it's tougher than you'd think.

To me I don't think it's too hard to process "Oh I'm in HM and I'm spamming Save Yourselves and I'm taking 0 damage. This might be a little overpowered hmmm" and to think of a balance.

[DE]

Hugs and Kisses

Join Date: Oct 2005

Scars Meadows

09 Jul 2009 at 23:16 - 16

This update might hold value if the ladder actually meant anything. Anet needs to go back to having different ladder seasons. The historical ladder bullshit they're doing right now is anything but historical. If you want guilds to fight on a ladder that will be saved for all time then it needs to be broken up into different historical seasons, not one never-ending ladder.

HuntMaster Avatar

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Feb 2007

Around

Pillar's of Earth [ROCK]

W/

09 Jul 2009 at 23:19 - 17

I'm roflmfao. Guess I'm gonna finish building my permasin and have some fun before it gets wackered with the nerfbat.

ele pl

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: Jun 2007

E/

09 Jul 2009 at 23:26 - 18

Quote:

Oh I'm in HM and I'm spamming Save Yourselves and I'm taking 0 damage. This might be a little overpowered hmmm"

Thats actually impossible, SY doesnt affect you, so the spammer takes damage.

Btw. Metatail says that this update doesnt work, he got 2 raiting points twice already.

Still Number One

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2008

W/

09 Jul 2009 at 23:28 - 19

Quote:

Originally Posted by ele pl

Thats actually impossible, SY doesnt affect you, so the spammer takes damage.

Btw. Metatail says that this update doesnt work, he got 2 raiting points twice already.

Maybe he played people who were ranked drastically less than him?

Meridon

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2008

Funny Business Inc [FBI]

09 Jul 2009 at 23:29 - 20

I find the reason for the lack of a skill update that "the last skill balance was only a couple of weeks ago" very weak. Everyone knows that last month's skill balance was expected earlier than released and so being late on last month's update doesn't justify skipping this month.

This will mean that the next skill update will be in August, and that over the course of the last 3 months and this month, we have had only 2 skill updates. That is 1 update every two months on average....

As much as I find this lack of updated skills a setback, if only ArenaNET would at least admit that skill balancing requires too much of their time and resources at this point, I would just accept it as it is. This way, however, it keeps players becoming disappointed.

Then again, it's at least good to know that they have already gotten the message out. It's better to be made aware of the setbacks early than to get disappointed later on, like last month. In the end, I guess they are more busy sorting XTH out at the moment instead, which I can understand. I find it pretty silly though that XTH crashed and went down the month after they updated the website...

It almost seems that ArenaNET is trying to correct the mistakes they made in two of the latest updates, being the crash of XTH and the various issues with skill descriptions last month, before they are releasing a new update. If this is true then it's a shame that the players now have to be the victims of ArenaNET's poorly coded updates. Of course, what i'm doing here is just speculation, but still a viable theory in my eyes.

Oh well.

Meridon

Metatail

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2006

09 Jul 2009 at 23:30 - 21

Where the crap are my +14 rating points!!! Tested on HB against ppl with almost the same rating as me.

Yawgmoth

Furnace Stoker

Join Date: Apr 2005

09 Jul 2009 at 23:30 - 22

High K-value for rated matches - we've had that before but it was connected to periodical ladder resets.
Even with ladder resets the effect of a high K-Value was clearly visible - the ratings of most competetive guilds were much higher!
Now with no resets it may soon make something like the whole top100 being above 1400 rating and 1200+ range starting as low as 300th place.
Result - more easier champion title points and more faction for gvg wins for most guilds.

Personally I'm against easier champs and I think the change is too dramatic, not only because of that title. There's another aspect - the +2, +2, -3, +3, -2, ... minimal rating changes were actually good for fun and not stressfull play and testing crazy builds against real opponents. Now the stakes of every match will be much higher - the rating difference between winning and losing goes up to 15! For many guilds it means no more fun byob gvg's with 4 guests just for fun! The change encourages creating more smurf guilds... if there weren't too many already.

They should have went with up to K-Value of 10 for rated matches imho or better not change anything.

Gonzo_Neo

Academy Page

Join Date: Dec 2007

P/W

09 Jul 2009 at 23:32 - 23

-1 Month wait only for a update repeat tonic
-Again ugly Norn tonic
-No skills update
-THX still broken
-No new info about next big update or date for it.

The history continiues....but doesnt matter, we play in friendlier environment ^^

......................

......................

IrishX

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2008

W/

09 Jul 2009 at 23:32 - 24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sadchaos

To me I don't think it's too hard to process "Oh I'm in HM and I'm spamming Save Yourselves and I'm taking 0 damage. This might be a little overpowered hmmm" and to think of a balance.

1. PvE balance isn't really that important.
2. The skill balance has to pass through 3 or 4 different departments to be changed.

fenix

Major-General Awesome

Join Date: Aug 2005

Aussie Trolling Crew HQ - Event Organiser and IRC Tiger

Ex Talionis [Law], Trinity of the Ascended [ToA] ????????????????&#

W/

09 Jul 2009 at 23:32 - 25

I'm with Inde.

I think we need a new rule; if there is a PvP update, people aren't allowed to post what they think.

In fact, people aren't thinking anyway, so they just shouldn't be allowed to post.

NoXiFy

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Aug 2007

★☆٭Ńēŵ~ŶờЯК٭☆★

The Benecia Renovatio [RenO]

Mo/Me

09 Jul 2009 at 23:32 - 26

Conquering Champion is a joke now. I will now where, Sweet Tooth(1). It's harder to get.

Scythe O F Glory

Krytan Explorer

Join Date: May 2008

New Jersey

League of Elite [LoE]

D/

09 Jul 2009 at 23:35 - 27

Quote:

Originally Posted by IrishX

1. PvE balance isn't really that important.
2. The skill balance has to pass through 3 or 4 different departments to be changed.

How can there be 3 or 4 departments when there are only 2 people working on GW?

Metatail

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jul 2006

09 Jul 2009 at 23:42 - 28

Half of this part of the update is broken.
K-value got increased only for GvG. HB is untouched.

Also inb4lolherobattles?

lord of all tyria

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Mar 2007

09 Jul 2009 at 23:43 - 29

This is a quality update which will dramatically improve both the number of guilds playing and the enjoyment they will gain from guild battles.

Still Number One

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2008

W/

09 Jul 2009 at 23:43 - 30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scythe O F Glory

How can there be 3 or 4 departments when there are only 2 people working on GW?

Why do you think we have a problem getting the correct skill balance changes? The changes they want to make have to go through people who are looking at Guild Wars 2 almost exclusively and have never had an idea about how high end pvp works. Izzy and now whoever does the new skill balancing have tried to get some really good ideas passed through but the people above him have shot those ideas down because they either think they are bad ideas or don't want to allocate their resources in order to accomplish the request.

The question isn't how can there be 3 or 4 departments if only 2 people are working on GW, it is why. And the best answer I can think of is somebody needs to prioritize the things the programmers have to do, and that someone obviously believes skill balancing needs to take a back seat to GW2.

On another note: I'm actually glad there is no skill update. Some of us may not be happy with their excuse of not enough time but honestly it is a good one. In order for a proper skill update to be done, we need a very large one. A simple nerf mind blast will not fix the meta. In fact just doing that would hurt it because all we'd have left is hexes. A lot of changes need to happen, and they are going to need more than 2 weeks to figure out how the changes are going to effect the game. Take the time to do it right, and everything will work out fine (fingers crossed).

Karate Jesus

Forge Runner

Join Date: Apr 2008

Texas

Reign of Judgment [RoJ]

Me/

09 Jul 2009 at 23:43 - 31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scythe O F Glory

How can there be 3 or 4 departments when there are only 2 people working on GW?

^ lol. But seriously, they do have to pass it through several departments. One of the reasons it's taking so long now is because several of those departments are purportedly working on GW2.....and their time is at a "premium" (to quote Regina).

The Air Revenger

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Feb 2008

Looking For TA Guild!

W/

09 Jul 2009 at 23:59 - 32

uhh nice update... its not even working for HB.

What a waste of an update.

Meridon

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2008

Funny Business Inc [FBI]

10 Jul 2009 at 00:03 - 33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Still Number One

Why do you think we have a problem getting the correct skill balance changes? The changes they want to make have to go through people who are looking at Guild Wars 2 almost exclusively and have never had an idea about how high end pvp works. Izzy and now whoever does the new skill balancing have tried to get some really good ideas passed through but the people above him have shot those ideas down because they either think they are bad ideas or don't want to allocate their resources in order to accomplish the request.

The question isn't how can there be 3 or 4 departments if only 2 people are working on GW, it is why.

Source?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Still Number One

And the best answer I can think of is somebody needs to prioritize the things the programmers have to do, and that someone obviously believes skill balancing needs to take a back seat to GW2.

On another note: I'm actually glad there is no skill update. Some of us may not be happy with their excuse of not enough time but honestly it is a good one. In order for a proper skill update to be done, we need a very large one. A simple nerf mind blast will not fix the meta. In fact just doing that would hurt it because all we'd have left is hexes. A lot of changes need to happen, and they are going to need more than 2 weeks to figure out how the changes are going to effect the game. Take the time to do it right, and everything will work out fine (fingers crossed).

Assuming that what you were saying at the start of your post was true, if Anet had their efficiency and sorted out there would be enough time to make a proper skill update and no need to cancel it this month.

Ratson Itamar

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Dec 2006

"Flame Shield On!"

10 Jul 2009 at 00:03 - 34

[DE], you're over thinking things and over complicating them. When you press a skill and you go bye bye from the server you have a damn good idea of a bad "team" (it's neither the programmer fault alone nor is it of the developer's, it's of the entire team). No matter what, this kind of bugs must never happen. Of course, if they can't take care of the basics how can they even try to accomplish satisfying skill updates.

Now, except from this kind of problems that rear their ugly heads more frequently as time goes on, we also have bad skill updates. They have a whole month to change skills and monitor them. However, the real problems is not the way that the new skills are overpowered as a result of an unseen combination, they're just to OPed even on their own. Or they just suck by not fixing the problem they had or not making unused skills viable. Thus, nullifying your entire reasoning.

Why (experienced) people keep defending the guilty Anet is beyond me. They don't do their job right and should take the responsabilty and not wash their hands after saying each time "well no one could expected this". It loses its meaning after awhile. It's the blinded that upsets me the most, even more than bad developers/programmers giving excuses.

I'm sorry if I'm not clear, it's 2:55 in the morning, but I thought it needed to be said anyway. Even if it's for the thousand time, and I know that it will be needed to be said again. I hope it wouldn't fall on deaf ears.

lutz

Jungle Guide

Join Date: Apr 2006

Battery Powered Best Friends [Vibe]

Me/

10 Jul 2009 at 00:18 - 35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sadchaos

Anet never fails at failing. Get off your lazy asses and do something. Now I know I'm going to get a bunch of idiots who are going to respond to this and say "Anet does a lot, you should be happy with what you get!" No, screw that. There are SO many issues in Guild Wars that have been around for months now. Not even a touch.

PvE:
Shadowform. Everybody constantly cries over this skill and I don't blame them.
Discord. Ez mode PvE.
Save Yourselves!. another Ez mode PvE

PvP:
Mindblast Eles in GvG. Infinite energy.
Heroes in GvG and HA.

These are just a few off the top of my head. All of these have been problems for months even a few for years now, and still nothing has been done.

GG ANet. If you keep failing this hard you have no future in gaming.

1. Changing the K-Value was one of the better things ArenaNet could have done.
2. Mind Blast eles are not infinite energy by any means. They are a little bit imbalanced, but certainly not for the reasons you state. You have your reasons all wrong.
3. Heroes aren't too big of a concern.
4. Requiring 4 members for GvG and 14-day members for ATs is currently the biggest problem. ArenaNet is preventing people from actually playing their game. ...

[DE]

Hugs and Kisses

Join Date: Oct 2005

Scars Meadows

10 Jul 2009 at 00:30 - 36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ratson Itamar

[DE], you're over thinking things and over complicating them. When you press a skill and you go bye bye from the server you have a damn good idea of a bad "team" (it's neither the programmer fault alone nor is it of the developer's, it's of the entire team). No matter what, this kind of bugs must never happen. Of course, if they can't take care of the basics how can they even try to accomplish satisfying skill updates.

I'm talking purely about the balance team, and not the programming team. Apparently they screwed this update up too and the K-value is only increased for losses in HB, not wins.

Quote:

Now, except from this kind of problems that rear their ugly heads more frequently as time goes on, we also have bad skill updates. They have a whole month to change skills and monitor them. However, the real problems is not the way that the new skills are overpowered as a result of an unseen combination, they're just to OPed even on their own. Or they just suck by not fixing the problem they had or not making unused skills viable. Thus, nullifying your entire reasoning.

For a while now, Anet has been unsure on their stance in PvE. It wasn't until just recently that they finally came out and said what they thought about speedclears. This is clearly shown in the fact that Ursan took forever to be nerfed, and it's also the reason why skills such as SY! haven't been touched much. However, now that Anet is starting to develop a stance on how they want PvE to be played, you can bet that you'll finally start to see PvE related skill nerfs.

Quote:

Why (experienced) people keep defending the guilty Anet is beyond me. They don't do their job right and should take the responsabilty and not wash their hands after saying each time "well no one could expected this". It loses its meaning after awhile. It's the blinded that upsets me the most, even more than bad developers/programmers giving excuses.

I'm all for the bashing of Anet when they slip up with stupid stuff programming-wise, and with other such problems. However I try to be more lenient and understanding when it comes to skill balance because until you walk a day in Izzy's shoes, you'll never know what it's truly like. (sorry for the cliche)

Still Number One

Wilds Pathfinder

Join Date: Jun 2008

W/

10 Jul 2009 at 00:45 - 37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meridon

Source?

My years of reading the responses for the updates by the people who have access to the secret forums and actually have somewhat of a say in game balance. They apparently have had many ideas that Izzy wanted to implement into the game and couldn't because he wasn't given permission from his superiors.

No I will not give you a link because I don't feel like digging through old threads on different forums pointing out examples. The truth is right in front of you and I could care less if you believe it or not. Have a good day.

Michael805

Frost Gate Guardian

Join Date: Jan 2006

Going Out Of Business Sale [GWII]

A/W

10 Jul 2009 at 00:46 - 38

@ Everyone loling at the "friendlier environment" comment:
It said a friendlier environment in which to get the rating, as opposed to AT's, which are a more competitive environment in their eyes and therefore less friendly.

Gogo reading comprehension.

]HM[ Sabre Wolf

Lion's Arch Merchant

Join Date: Oct 2006

USA

Servants of Fortuna

W/

10 Jul 2009 at 00:56 - 39

change in the K-Value... been a while since a latter reset... mmmm, I smells somthing coming...

and Michael gets an "A" on reading comprehension... everyone else gets a fail... read the whole sentence before jumping to conclusions. How many people are seriously going to waste 5 tokens to join a tourney filled with ranked 200+ guilds... how is a new guild going to be happy to compeat with that to raise their rating? Granted, the random system is still flawed, but its better then trying to play top guilds when you are just starting out in some AT. Which BTW, you are locked into for a few hours... not very casual to me.

as for the no skill balence... who cares... they have all been good lately and its too early to tell on the effects of the last one, so just deal with it and move on.

Esprit

Desert Nomad

Join Date: Jun 2005

Dvd Forums [DVDF]

E/

10 Jul 2009 at 01:00 - 40

We just had a skill update last month and it was pretty significant too. I think it is quite reasonable that there is no skill update this month.

Just chill and play the game. If you are living from skill balance to skill balance then you need to take a break.