Good People DO Exist in GW - And They CAN Make A Difference!

damn that's all i could think about at the end too.

*Deep Breath*

I didn't ask anyone else to make a report. Regardless of the fact that I sent up a request on my own, I know from being a responsible gamer that more than one ticket per incident only bogs the system down. Being that I didn't request anyone else to report this person, I believe this makes your whole post moot. (That's what you were basing it on right?) If you still intend to use the RoC against me: As I said in the original post "Based on this statement (Rule 1 of RoC), I have the right to expect that other players will allow me to enjoy the game and that they will not cause me distress. Even though these statements are very broad, common sense dictates that I am not wrong for attempting to find a better end result. You can try to use the last sentence about reporting players against me, but I'll just reference the first part of this rule again." If you want to be able to use this against me, you'll need to argue how he wasn't causing me distress or taking enjoyment out of the game for me and/or say how my singular report to GW was malicious or done without reason. I didn't ask anyone to harass the player or cause the player distress. I only asked that they ask him to return the money. (After all it was possible that he didn't realize what had happened or was confused as he later stated.) As far as unwanted attention goes, I don't believe it applies in this case. He wasn't being needlessly bothered. He later looked me up and said that he had forgotten my screen name and had to get it from a PM'r. So it turned out in favor for both of us. You can't make a solid argument without supporting your decisions, especially when they are opinion based and/or very broad interpretations. In the end, GW won't do anything about it. But that doesn't seem to be what you're trying to debate here.

I'm cheap. I recently got a ton of money from selling off goods acquired over the years. My husband sold off and gave me goods from all his accounts and migrated to WoW. I'm "New Money" so to speak. I'm still not used to having funds. I haven't mastered any of the campaigns and still can't get to the big money areas. Thus - 75 is a lot of money to me. It's not to a lot of people. Doesn't change the value to me. Gives me something to look forward to though when I start having access to the better farming land! This is something that keeps coming up. I have a hard time believing that if you were in my shoes at my area of progression in the game that you (or anyone else aghast at my reaction) wouldn't also feel the same way. Even on your lofty perch it's possible to make mistakes in the game that can be costly. Whether it's 75k, a few stacks of ectos or the ultra rare unique you've been holding on to it's still gonna suck. I was resourceful and lucky enough to get what I wanted. The point is - stuff happens to everyone. Will you be as poised as you expected me to be when it does? Say what you want, but you'll be hard pressed to convince me that you're the one person in the world who doesn't get irritated when they lose something that they wanted and didn't intend to give away.

Sorry, but no. For one, she could have ID'd herself if she wanted. (Even if I did want people to know how generous I was, I wouldn't ID myself in this crowd! OUCH! You guys are merciless.) For two, if I was jerk enough to not offer her the ecto's back, I wouldn't be dumb enough to mention she gave them to me in the first place. Not to mention, if I was that kind of jerk, why would I bother posting a forum for discussion about good people doing good things that make a difference to others? Honestly.

Again, sorry... I'm not the type to use being a soldier as a get out of jail free card or as some kind of badge of uberawesomeness. The reason that Iraq is relevant is because naturally, I didn't play GW during that period. Thus my husband and I both racked up presents on all accounts/characters and had all sorts of goodies we had earned prior to deployment in there to sell off. I sold a lot, and he sold all. That accounts for the sudden influx of cash on hand. That's what it has to do with anything.

Phew.... I think that's everything...

good vs evil , same story always , yingyang....

Anyway I am glad you got back your 75k , but you need to learn that 75k is not 75g :P just keep that in mind in your trades now

I also met good people as I met bad ones. but you never can change that , good and evil is a balance, it will stay the same every where in the world (not only online gaming :P )

If you had bothered to read the chat between the two of them, you might have noticed that she said her and her hubby just got back from Iraq.
Well... I for one am grateful to all our troops fighting for us anywhere in the world, and I grabbed the opportunity now to say thank you.

What don't you understand here... you made a mistake in a trade, you weren't scammed or misled, you... made... a... mistake...

The player who you were trading with DIDN'T scam you, he didn't do anything wrong, his only fault is being opportunistic and greedy. There was nothing to report.

As for YOU violating the Rules of conduct that YOU quoted...

"While playing Guild Wars, you must respect the rights of others and their rights to play and enjoy the game. To this end, you may not defraud, harass, threaten, or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players. You will not report players maliciously, or cause them to be investigated without reason."

After YOU made a mistake in the trade, you contacted the player (presumably to explain your mistake and ask for your money back), and you claim to have asked him a few times before he set you to ignore...

Do you get this, you asked him a few times and he choose to IGNORE you. Did you respect HIS choice not to be harassed by you? No, you used the LOCAL channel NAMING THE PLAYER and asking OTHER PLAYERS to contact him on your behalf... numerous other people to talk to him after he made it clear he didn't want to continue the discussion. "...or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players."

Do you see what I mean? I'm guessing you don't...


edit: Oh, the screen shots were awesome... after people who were harassing him on your behalf made all sorts of threats... abusing him, threatening to post screen shots all over the internet (yeah, violating your precious RoC) just awesome. You're right, these people who helped you out are GOOD people... RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing awesome.

I want all my mini pets and stuffs back! millions in plats!

now lets see if that works.

even arena net won't listen to that plea.!

Oh, you poor thing... here, let me give you some ectos...

edit: Your avatar, it scares me...

Why do people feel they have to piss all over some good feelings?

Bottom line, the OP was stupid (by her own admission), BUT people helped her anyway. And she got the Plat back!

After all the evil things that people do in this game, I for one, am feeling pretty good.

Taking into consideration the kinds of players that I've had to deal with over the years in GW, yours is a rare case.

So the person who gave you the ectos was "paying it forward," and asking you to do the same. The fact that you helped another person in return indicates that the ecto donor had a positive impact. Now the guy that solicited the ecto from you concerns me, because he is coming to you from a position of "what can I get for free." But hopefully he will do something selfless for someone and the chain will continue.

I am a generous person, but what I have experienced in GW is that typically if you give something to a player that appears in need, often times they will add you to their friends list and try to get more handouts from you later. Being an enabler is not good for you, and not good for the person getting the handout. So instead, when someone is asking for a handout, I try to coach them on how to get what they need themselves. If they are patient enough to see the value of my words, they benefit. But many people are not smart enough to see the value, and they just move on to try to mooch off someone else. Unfortunately, we are in a generation of victims.

My challenge to you is this: Find one person (it won't be hard) that has a need. But instead of giving them what they want, say the following: "I'm not going to just give you "X." I'm going to give you something better than "X." I'm going to teach you how to get lots of "X." If they stick with you, you're on your way to making the GW universe a better place. And yes, you can get them to "pay it forward."

Nice to hear you got your money back and that people helped you out. There are thousands of nice people out there, just the punks are the ones you remember. I wonder tho...would they have ever given yoru money back if you did not post this in teh begining? I doubt it. I once saw someone saying WTB 2 necro tomes 14k. I pm him 2 necro tomes? He said yes. I traded him 2 necro tomes he gave me 14k. He accepted then said Are you trying to scam me! I said no you said 2 necro tomes. He said I meant 2 eleite necro tomes. Lol I gave him his money back and told him watch what you say next time you never said 2 elite tomes.

yea its not about the age ita how u grew up.but its gd to know that such a nice ppl exist in gw

Scammers, cheaters, flamers, trolls, exploiters, ebayers, cyberers, etc..?

...dime a dozen.

Honest people...?

near-extinction.

Umm.... I did read it, that was the whole point of the post.... I hate it when people use such a thing as a get-out-of-jail-free card, and I hate it that people who 'have been to iraq' automatically get treated as godly heroes when in fact they might have done nothing or even done something wrong. I'm not saying the OP didn't do anything great over there, I'm just saying that "I've been to iraq" without any context shouldn't bring 'civilians' kowtowing before them. I'm glad the OP explained that she meant she had a sudden influx of cash as a result of her period not gaming, and not "omg you should give me my moneys back because I've been to iraq!". In any case, such a thing shouldn't even matter: the agreement was 75g for a green dye. There was no intent to pay 75k. As a result, the other party should refund 74,925g regardless of anything else.

I'm not trying to troll or be insensitive with this post, I'm just being realistic.

P.S. I'm not American.

Well I think this is a wonderful story ^^
The fact that someone cared enough to seek you out and give you was a very kind thing to do. Kudos to that person if she's reading this. On top of that you offering to give them back once the guy reimbursed you? Also pretty considerate.
Morals, compassion and consideration. These sort of traits in other players make the game worthwhile playing for me.
If you ever want another player to go through some bits with you, whisper me.

Being a teenager doesn't automatically make someone an asshole.

Anyway, blackstarling, glad to hear you got your money back, and ignore those who say "75k is nothing". That might be the case for some people, but not all. The most money I've ever had in-game at one point was about 230k and I felt insanely rich.

And yes, there are definitely nice people in this game. However, it's the obnoxious idiots that are the loudest so the nice ones always seem to get passed over/ignored/fade into the woodwork.

Cant even be bothered to read all the rest of posts, my view of whole thing is your origionally too cheap to pay an extra 25g to buy the dye, then your too stupid to pay 75gold instead of 75k, then come on here and persuade other people to harrass the guy til he gave you the money back. Well hats off to you, some of these people might be 'Good' people, but your not.......

If it was me theres no way id give it back just to spite you for making people PM me constantly about it, not that id have taken it in the first place but still....

PS. Hope ya get your ass banned for breaching EULA by "...or cause distress and/or unwanted attention to other players."

I certainly hope she doesn't get banned for her behavior, but I hope she considers a different course of action in future. People make mistakes.

Yeah, the guy was a douche for keeping her money when she made a simple mistake, any decent person would have given it back. Being a douche but not breaking the rules of conduct... makes this a non event.

If there are any bans given out over this, I'm guessing they belong to the people who 'harassed and threatened' the scumbag guy until he relented.

PS: More GW dramas please.

I remember once reading a guild of the week/month about a PvP guild for people like you, or was it mute players x.x I dunno, worth looking into though, sorry I can't tell you more. To be painfully honest even those teams on vent fail to use it to a viable level to warrant getting on, so few people call what needs to be called or give proper commands other than "Spike in 3..2..1...THEIR SPLITTING DO SOMETHING" x.x You can spike visually if you have a clue and react on your own accord, I've played enough games with vent muted without issues to know that.

Bad pugs I guess sorry bud.

Nice to hear there are still nice people in GW.But this won't stop Anet from nerfing those skills.

Seems like for the most part people posting here have at least thought things over before posting their two cents. It's good to see that even if you don't agree with me, you've actually put some thought into it before posting something like "haha... ur retarted." I know it's a lot to sift through, but actually reading all the posts and information available really helps to make a solid stance. If you're not interested enough to read everything, your uninformed opinion is likely irrelevant to the situation. Thanks to everyone who has followed the flow of information. If I had a dime for every "75k isn't a lot" post... I'd be able to hit up the dollar menu at Taco Bell. (Maybe twice.) Now then...

I do realize I made a mistake. (See earlier posts.) I never said I was scammed. (See earlier posts.) If the player I dealt with knowingly walked away with more money than he was due, he DID do something wrong. A wrong in the area of decency and not necessarily according to GW rules. (See original post. Never stated he was ban-able or had violated rules. That was mainly the reason for the post, I didn't know whether or not he had. After doing my research, I found that nothing in Guild Wars Terms of Use, Rules of Conduct or the User Agreement forbids his actions. It's simply a matter of decency and integrity.) Not knowing whether or not it was a reportable offense - instead of jumping to uninformed conclusions... I asked.

As far as Rule 1 of RoC I'm quoting my reply in post 42. You must not have seen it.

As I said in the original post "Based on this statement (Rule 1 of RoC), I have the right to expect that other players will allow me to enjoy the game and that they will not cause me distress. Even though these statements are very broad, common sense dictates that I am not wrong for attempting to find a better end result. You can try to use the last sentence about reporting players against me, but I'll just reference the first part of this rule again." If you want to be able to use this against me, you'll need to argue how he wasn't causing me distress or taking enjoyment out of the game for me and/or say how my singular report to GW was malicious or done without reason. I didn't ask anyone to harass the player or cause the player distress. I only asked that they ask him to return the money. (After all it was possible that he didn't realize what had happened or was confused as he later stated.) As far as unwanted attention goes, I don't believe it applies in this case. He wasn't being needlessly bothered. He later looked me up and said that he had forgotten my screen name and had to get it from a PM'r. So it turned out in favor for both of us. You can't make a solid argument without supporting your decisions, especially when they are opinion based and/or very broad interpretations.

Do you see what I mean? I'm guessing you don't. Point is - he wanted/needed someone to message him to be able to find me. It could have been unwanted attention, but in this case it wasn't. His story is that he logged off which is why he wasn't reachable - not that he put me on ignore. Other people tell me that he did not show as offline for them at that time however. I can't prove the case to be either/or. What I can prove is that he himself admitted to being glad someone PM'd him again. Based on his own admission, you don't have an argument here. I don't have to accept your opinion to respect it, but I can't respect an opinion that's just stated to cause a ruckus. Read up before you fly off the handle and you're more likely to get your point across. The whole point of argument/debate is to get your point across isn't it? Or is it just to prove you're right, I'm wrong? If that's the case, you could have summarized your post into those four words and saved yourself the trouble.

I really appreciate this post. It's an idea that hasn't been addressed yet but I think is valid and pertinent. You're absolutely right in that the guy did ask me for more items after the original gift. He asked if I had any Celestial weapons which I actually do - but I realized the slippery slope that I was on. Instead of trading him what he wanted, we went to Nahpui Quarter and terrorized Star critters for a couple hours until he got the drops he was looking for. We've gone a-huntin a couple times since when I shared my tactics for getting the most drops in the least tries. It's been a couple nights and he's come along to the point that he goes on solo hunts. THAT is the intended response you're talking about isn't it? It's much more gratifying to empower someone to get their own goods than to just give them what they want at the time. Also a good story - a fella asked me for a freebie the other day when I was WTS'ing some minis. I gave him one worth 10k and he used the money to have enough buying power to pick up some goods at a price he could still resell them. He checks in with me every night to tell me what he's sold and seems to be doing pretty well with it! Yeah, it could have gone in another direction and he could've turned into a mooch, but I don't mind taking that chance with people if they seem decent. I have no problem telling someone "no" when they're reaching too far. I think the last paragraph of your post is insightful and proactive - it addresses a problem before the problem even exists. I wish more people would share your opinions and attitude on the matter. You're one of those good people.

I really like this post. I completely agree. I don't want to say too much more because it's something that really should have it's own thread. There are a lot of very strong opinions on this subject that are actually thought-provoking and interesting. Kudos to you for having the guts to be honest about your opinion. Many people are afraid to make such a stand because a lot of Americans are unconditional staunch supporters of their Armed Forces.

Yep. I'm cheap. See post #35 of the original post and #42 (Second Response) from this post. You're not saying anything we don't already know or haven't already heard. Didn't ask anyone to harass the guy - but I admit to believing he deserved it and even thinking it's somehow fitting. You don't agree with me and I'm okay with that. What is it that you believe makes me a non-good person? You didn't exactly specify and I'm honestly interested.

I didn't make anyone do anything. If I had that power, I would have made him give me my money back and I'd have never met all you wonderful people! I'm curious to why you wouldn't take the money in the first place. If you're the type of person to want to spite me by asking for what's rightfully mine, why aren't you the type of person to take the money in the first place? I'm not saying that it's impossible for these two to co-exist! I'm truthfully interested in your reasoning.

In my conversation with GW, they've stated no intention to ban me or anything of the sort. (Seems to be coming up a lot in recent posts.) For distress/unwanted attention, see any of a number of my previous posts.

To HollaBigj - You really should start a thread for this and see what people say. I know you've already done a lot of research, but there's GOTTA be a better solution to your sitch. I wish I knew more to be able to help out... I have to admit, I don't even know what the bambi emote is that you're talking about. (If it's a PVP thing, I only do PVE) Still, the Guru here seems to be a neverending font of information... someone out there has gotta have SOMEthing to help you out... (right?)

This is a stupid story. Basically he steals 75,000 of your money and EVENTUALLY gives it back, and now you're friends? What if he didn't give it back? And he knew what happened, but held onto it for all that time, that isn't right!

Hey remember that time I stole 75k from you and put you on ignore so I could make sure it was mine? / Yeah / Thanks for the loan / no problem.

Ah, stories of kindness warm my heart. Thanks for telling us your tale.

I didn't read many replies - because I know how cynical and idiotic half the people on GWGuru are. I suggest everyone ignore them and their dour responses.

So what if he didn't give it back? I'm out 75k. It sucks but stuff happens. If I did what I could to get it back and still didn't get it back, I'd still move on. I befriended him in hopes that I'd be a good example for him and others. Just because I didn't like his reaction to an incident doesn't make him a bad guy. And if he IS a bad guy, hopefully my example with make some kind of impression. Even if not - it doesn't hurt to try. It's not like I've lost anything by essentially forgiving him.

This was an interesting story. And encouraging. Thank you for sharing.

To my understanding, there were no stealing involve, it was a mistake on the OP's side to key in the number 75 in the wrong field.

This isn't a story about the OP or her decisions/mistakes in game (and for all you people giving her so much crap about screwing up that trade, I'm sure you've all got some stories about supremely idiotic screw ups you've made in game at one point or another.) It's not even a story about the theft itself, it's about an act of kindness that is very very uncommon not only in GW, but in MMO communities in general. You should be thankful at least a few of these people exist instead of deriding people for their mistakes.

How come some people are referring to this as a "scam"? It clearly wasn't.

I don't want to get into a politics argument with you, because I could rant for pages about what is going on wrong in the USA currently.
Let me just tell you that not all troops are treated as "godly heroes", actually, far from it. Every time I see protesters near cemeteries where families are burying their sons/daughters/fathers/mothers etc. who died in Iraq, brandishing signs "god is happy your son died", "your daughter is rotting in Hell", etc. I get very angry. You said you don't live in the USA... Then you probably don't know what the USA is like, and don't say "well I watch the news you know", because the media broadcasts about the USA (i.e. CNN) are misleading most of the time at best.

I am grateful to our troops because they do serve our country, be it a tank driver or a medic.

If you wish to continue this discussion further, please PM me, I won't be checking this thread for a reply from you.

I do tend to agree with the majority of the "why didn't you buy green dye at the trader" viewpoint. I would be more sympathetic had it been Black dye you were looking to buy from other players.

Being a greedy/miserly mofo myself, I totally understand you trying to save some g by trying to get items cheaper. However, I would do this with materials rather than dye.

But I felt you went a bit far in spamming local chat with your plight, because it was your fault that you put in the wrong amount of payment. You said it yourself that the amount lost didn't matter, but that's really because you ended up getting 20 free ectos AND the 75k back later on. By then, of course you'd say it really didn't matter.

I bet until that point you were fuming or sad that you made such a mistake and the person you traded with didn't return your money. Now, the way he was talking with you in those screenshots, shows obviously that he is a young player or afraid to get in trouble, but this is debatable.

Anyhoo, thanks for another lovely read here on Guru.

Integrity in games? They're many people in these games that don't show any integrity but why should people have too? People playing games are there to enjoy the game and unless the players have some sort of common goal, it is unreasonable to try and tell players to show integrity among others for the sake of it.

I do agree with others that you went too far in dealing with the situation, especially trying to get others to contact him from your own mistake. But I guess you made a huge gain from all of this, so what does it really matter to anyone else?

But if they write the wrong number on your tax return or check and you don't report it isn't that "stealing"? I guess it's the same thing as withholding information being borderline lying..but in the end you are judged by your own actions not those of others..

I don't understand? Is integrity limited, if the situations change do they warrant you to be selfish and careless?

The way I see it is this is an online game, still a game but it's online and these are no mere NPCs where as programming might of made it a tricky option in an offline game these are real people on the other side, husbands, wives, children, brothers, mothers, living people. While to some they can play all day and get the money back like a joke others have work and lives and people to take care of so they get very little time to play games and accumulate wealth inside of them.

Sure this is not work you are not obligated to show any respect, any remorse, any humanity to those you deal with but if you brush all that off on it being a game, if you ruin others fun for the sake of your own whether it be out shopping, at work, or even online graying the lines of what's real only shows your true colors.

There are tons of games like oblivion where you can play the bad guy and run around stealing and killing people that you can play but when you choose to interact with people you either have integrity or not..no matter the place or situation.

Simply put being good is not something you hang on a coat rack when you log on, it's not something you leave at the clock when you get off work, you either have it or you don't and if you don't it's not hard to fake it...the game itself is a common goal if you think about it..

I agree with you and I don't really believe the OP. Let's look at this he should have been paying attention to the trade amount in the top right corner of the screen. Just a glance and he would have seen 75000 gold to give that guy. 75000 is a far cry from 75. Now I just don't believe anybody even a retard would do something like that knowing that it is THEIR responsibility to check out all trades and the trade window before clicking accept. So, I blame the OP not the guy who pocketed 75plat. Then to come to a forum and brag about how he got people to pester the guy that got the 75plat. Makes him no better than the guy. But, that is the general gist of most people. They think they are all white without black and everybody else is the problem and not them. So, there really aren't any white satin players in the game, only those that THINK they are.

The OP was based around the idea of integrity in his or her post. The OP wasn't scammed but made a mistake. My point was that if the goal of a game is to be enjoyed, why should the person(the guy that got 75k instead of 75g) be obligated to give it back for the sake of others when obviously he didn't want too. But the OP wants to make him feel bad, because he wanted to be selfish or make a gain from someone who made a stupid mistake in the first place. I find it pitifully idealistic, especially when the OP made a MAJOR gain from the whole thing when the OP was a "victim" of terrible events from loosing 75k because of someones narcissistic behavior.

"Simply put being good is not something you hang on a coat rack when you log on, it's not something you leave at the clock when you get off work, you either have it or you don't and if you don't it's not hard to fake it."

If someone was faking being good, you cannot know if they're or are not good when you are on the internet. In fact you don't know about ANYTHING about the many people on the internet or playing an online game unless you have some personal connection. If anything, playing games and having so much anonymity from any effects in the real world helps boost narcissistic behavior, but that doesn't make it bad.

I had this all dissected so I could address your inaccuracies and dramatizations but I suddenly realized two things: 1 - I've already addressed all of this. You must not have been paying attention the first time so why expect you to do it this time? 2 - You're only pulling the topic further and further off subject.

Luckily, your last two paragraphs are right on target so hopefully that redeems your post and gets it read. It just sucks that someone who is merely perusing might miss your actual good points if they stop reading when they realize your first paragraph is old hat.

Compassion just oozes from you, you really should learn to be a little more trusting even on the internet.

Truly glad to hear you got your money back.

On the flip side, absolute shame on you for posting his name publicly so that others could freely flame and harass him. It's also against the rules on Guru, and you went against it not once, but twice! It was your mistake, and even though he is/was an asshole, you didn't need to reciprocate. I know you wanted to lash out and make your case known, but you really did not handle it well at all. Take shit with more dignity. For whoever insinuates that younger people are more likely to act bratty, you quite acted like one. I mean, really, one of your posts ended up being like, "LOL nanana I ended up with more money nanana."

Yeah, the whole posting his name was my bad. Like I said in the first post, I was actually registering for this site when it all went down. I had no idea that it was a faux pas. After reading the rules, it totally makes sense why it's against the rules. I was irritated with the situation and was acting before I fully considered the ramifications of my actions. I later went back and edited the one screen that I posted. I had no intention of reciprocating - or rather, I just did it to try to get my money back - it wasn't malicious. (If I was really that mean spirited, why would I have been so kind to him when he came back around? Once he had given me the money back I could have gone off and told him what a jerk I thought he was. You can't know that I meant to lash out because I didn't. I made some bad decisions but they were only motivated by my wish to get the money back. Check the screens and my other interactions for proof of demeanor if you need more convincing. I did want to make the case known, mostly to get help asking for the money back, put also partly to serve as an example of what not to do. Your strange interpretation of a post doesn't make me childish. (Though I am curious how you came to that conclusion.) Facts, founded/supported opinions and pertinent and/or thought provoking points are not what I would normally classify as anything but mature.

Seems my earlier post got deleted *acts surprised*

So let me ask, how do feel about the people who contacted the 'bad trader' on your behalf, only to bully, abuse and threaten him into giving you your money back? Are they good people too?

Or do you think publicly naming players and DRAWING UNWANTED ATTENTION to them is a bad thing, because it leads to just this sort of response?

I don't know, referring to people who disagree with you or who point out your ROC violations in handling the matter as 'haters' and claiming that they are 'butt hurt' might seem immature?

"who's QQ'ing now?" Yeah, you're right, maturity, it's over rated.

This is what i think,If he had said "hey that's 75k,Not 75G" and he wouldn't accept,But after a few minutes of being ignored Decides This asshole won't listen and accepts then it's your problem,Happened to me,I was buying gifts,I bought 25k worth for 20k because the guy wouldn't listen for 10 minutes while i was caps locking "I ONLY WANT 4 GIFTS,I ONLY HAVE 20K"