Good People DO Exist in GW - And They CAN Make A Difference!

You don't know what was discussed in those PM's except the single instance that was discussed by the player. You are adding information to your argument that you don't know even exists... Purposefully charging a debate this way might succeed elsewhere, but I'm not biting. I don't know anyone who messaged the other player - so I can't give an estimate as to their worth.

As far as naming players, you're absolutely right. I actually just had a PM conversation about that with someone. (Suddenly wishing I had it set to save sent messages...) Anyhow, one of the things that had me distracted during the original incident was that I was registering to use this site in the background. After the incident, I went straight to the forums instead of the Rules and Terms of Service. I've never really posted in forums before so I didn't think anything of posting someone's in game name. That was my bad. I screwed that one up. I'm just glad that the mods on this site are thorough enough to have caught it so quickly. In retrospect, I never thought that these forums would be as hostile as they have shown to be at times. If I knew then what I knew now, I probably wouldn't have posted his name. I would have assumed that the ratio of polite messages would have been greatly outnumbered by hostile ones and decided it wasn't worth pushing the other guy further away from an amicable end. I asked a handful of folks in game to PM him, so it wasn't like I came here to have access to a larger crowd. I posted here because I wanted quick access to information - not to get more people on my bandwagon. We already discussed the unwanted attention thing somewhere above this post. I'm too lazy right now to dig up the post number for you.

For the maturity bit, I was honestly trying to put a more playful spin on my posts to lighten the increasingly aggressive atmosphere. I don't mind arguments, but when it turns to red engines and multiple exclamation points... it's gone past a healthy amount of opposition. I was hoping that relaxing my tone and throwing in a few smileys would show folks that I was more than open to their opinion, but that I didn't things going beyond playful to hostile. And erm, the QQ thing... Yeah... I PM'd someone because I didn't know what the red engine thing or QQ meant. I was embarassed and we laughed about it. I only threw it in there as an inside joke to the one I'd PM'd. Anyone can see from the number of posts I've tacked on these boards that it's not my style to try to instigate a fight. It takes more than an online forum to get me to that point.

Nope, I only know about the one quoted in your screen shots, bullying, abusing and threatening... to presume that only ONE person said anything hostile is naive, but even still, you refuse to comment on that one guy who acted like a scumbag on your behalf, nice... what additional information did I add? Bully? your screen shots... Abuse? again, from your screen shots... Threaten? Again, from your screen shots. I might as well add Harass.

No need to dig it up, that's okay, you're the victim, your wrong doing in violating the RoC is far less than the 'bad traders' wrong doing in not violating the game's rules, I got that already. As for hostile posts, I hate to point this out, but people telling you that you're wrong isn't hostile, in the same way that disagreeing with you ISN'T attacking you. Very few people responded in a hostile manner, some did, which is just astonishing considering how well behaved the people normally are on these forums. Yes, that last bit was sarcasm

I like Red Engines, I really do, wonderful reference and quite funny. Multiple exclamation points is obviously taking things too far, well, if they're all stacked up behind the same word anyhow!!!

I think Illfated Fat's observations were pretty accurate on this matter, no matter, I'm not your mother, you ARE allowed to be immature after all.

And, just in case you didn't notice, I don't begrudge you getting your money back, it was the correct outcome for the situation, any decent person would have given it back upon noticing the mistake.

Nor do I begrudge you having someone throwing some spare ectos your way, it's their imaginary money to throw about as they please.

My only issue was the initial 'Oh noes, I've been scammed' angle, and the whole 'good people' thing... the only good person involved in this whole sordid affair was the ecto donor, not You, not the scumbag who wanted to make of with your loot, and certainly not anyone who abused, threatened or harassed the scumbag on your behalf. Oh, and me, I'm always good. And Pumpkin Pie as well, for changing Avatars. And Inde, because I hope maybe if I suck up enough my posts will stop being made to disappear.

I can honestly say that I've never been scammed, or even accidentally scammed myself, out of something that I didn't intend to give away for free. Sure, people have stiffed me when running, but other people usually go, "Oh, he was such a dick, here's a little extra. ^,..,^ We're not all bad." And it's THOSE moments that you get the soft cuddly warming awww building in the back of your throat making you feel like there is hope for humanity yet, not when you cry to other people what's happened to see if they can bully him into giving back your loses. Looking back at the screen shot you can clearly see that people DID harass him. And that alone would make me feel like an insufferable bitch simply because no scam occurred. He didn't take anything more than you offered. He didn't steal from you in any way. It's your fault that you put the numbers in the wrong place and it's your fault that you didn't check the trade window before blindly rushing ahead for this oh so elusive green dye. Yes, I'm probably a bit jaded, but if I was in your shoes I would have done exactly what I said in my first post, facepalmed, called myself a 'tard, and gone on with my life having learned a valuable lesson in checking things before accepting them. Hopefully, in this round about way, you've learned that. Luckily you got your money back and this can all end. Not well, no, but it can end. I don't know how you see 'good' people anywhere in this because in my eyes there is no one that isn't at fault. You screwed up the trade, the seller kept the money when he knew it was way more than was agreed upon, and the people who harassed the seller... Harassed the seller, which is just rude. I wish you all the luck with your 75k and hope that whatever farming build you decided to undertake gets nerfed. Because I am a jaded bitch and I don't like you.

Thank you for making me smile, now I don't feel so bad...

The guy had already not been honest once - saying he was offline after the trade. So why should I give 100% credence to anything else he says? At this point in the game, he was obviously trying to save face. If he played the victim it would be easier for him to meet me on an even level. (Notice that the first thing he did is say that the same had happened to him?) There is reason to believe that he probably worked up the drama a little bit in his favor. The main reason your statement is inaccurate is because you asked about the PEOPLE (not person) who harassed him. Well tell me who they were and I'll give you my honest opinion of them.

The whole RoC thing you guys keep bringing up is completely one sided which makes your argument kind of ridiculous. I don't believe I violated the RoC, nor do I believe that he did either. With that in mind - humor me for a moment. Why are you so willing to use rule #1 to say that I had caused him unwanted attention but so stoically refusing to use the same rule to say that he did not respect my right to enjoy the game and caused me distress? What came first, the chicken or the egg? If you want to use the rule, I'm okay with that, so long as you're not picking only the parts you like out of it to suit your point.

If you look around (and the posts are still there) you'll see me thanking people who voiced their opposing opinions respectfully. Bad behavior that is commonly accepted to the point that it's expected and ignored is exactly the point that I'm trying to address. Why is it necessary that disagreement be delivered rudely? I believe that the goal of this sort of debate is to convince or be convinced. What I mean by that is if you disagree with me, tell me, tell me why I'm wrong, and convince me to change my stance. I'm not going to actively resist the change because I'm too embarrassed to give up my original stance. I have nothing to lose, and everything to gain if I'm wrong. If I'm wrong - I can become right! With that in mind however, I'm only going to accept arguments that are well founded. If you come at me with an aggressive approach highlighting only that you think I'm wrong and sprinkling in a few poorly supported statements... you're not likely going to get your point across. Even a good argument can get lost in the soup if you deliver it with too much irrelevant information. What is your purpose posting here? Do you want me to know that I'm wrong for wishing people would behave better online? What exactly are you trying to convince me of? If you keep that in mind while you're writing, you have a better chance of not losing a good point.

On the topic of disappearing posts: You're very quick to use the GW RoC against me so it's clear to see that you're willing to respect rules. Consider this - According to rule #2 of the Forum Rules and Guidelines "Flaming is the act of posting messages that are deliberately hostile and insulting. A troll is a person who posts inflammatory messages intended to cause a disruption in discourse and to provoke other members into hostility. We encourage discussion and healthy debate, and personal attacks are not warranted in either." Rule number 5 is also thought provoking. Do either of these definitions apply to any of you?

You yourself stated that you solicited PEOPLE (plural) to contact the trader after he had put you on ignore? You also stated that he put them on ignore too? People is more than one person, Harassing is what they did. Voila, like magic... AND you still didn't comment on the one person he mentioned in your screen shots, you're just awesome like that.

You don't believe that you drew unwanted attention to the player by naming him on the local channel and getting people to contact the scumbag who ripped you off, after he made it clear that he didn't want to talk to you (by setting you to ignore)? Gee... really? You think he wanted to be abused and threatened? He just used the ignore feature because he liked the abuse and was 'just playing hard to get'?

Now, where did he make a RoC violation? He made a trade with you, did NOTHING to scam you, and choose not to give you the money back that you had mistakenly given him?

Given him...

Yeah, ummm... if you felt upset about losing the money, and felt it limited your enjoyment of the game, then you should really blame the person who gave it away, namely you. He didn't have the right to abuse you (which you never mentioned him doing), harass you (which again, you didn't mention him doing), threaten you (again, he didn't?)... indeed he did NOTHING to you. The only bad thing that happened to you, you DID TO YOURSELF.

He was an ass, but he broke no rule that I can see.

I'm not debating you, no, not at all. I'm just telling you that you're wrong. I couldn't give a toss whether you think people should behave better online, I don't care how you think people should behave, your opinions on such things are your own. I will, however happily point out the hypocrisy of you calling him a bad person and suggesting that he was violating the games rules, when the only rule breaking I saw was coming from you and your posse.

That is the point.

You brought the ROC up, I just laughed at how the RoC that YOU quoted seemed to bear no significance to the actions of the bad trader you had grievance with, but your own actions seemed directly contrary to the rules you were citing.

Respect rules? Me? I said no such thing, I merely pointed out YOUR hypocrisy in the matter.

I haven't flamed you, I haven't called you offensive names or otherwise attempted to insult you, nor have I lowered myself to immature remarks, calling you a "hater" or suggesting that you're "butt hurt".

The quotation marks are because I am quoting YOU.

All I have done is made a simple observation of your post, the actions you described and your very one sided interpretation of the Rules of Conduct that you posted to aid your case, when I saw them doing the exact opposite... you took issue and thus we are still discussing it, or you're ignoring questions, dancing side issues and avoiding points... maybe you call that debating, I don't know.

I can't give an opinion on someone I've never encountered. That's like asking me if I think your friend Bob is a good guy.

Wrong can be seen in what people do as well as what they choose not to do.

I gave both sides of the RoC in the original post that it was brought up. I also addressed what could be used against me and why I didn't think it applied.

I've only ignored questions that have already been discussed. It's nauseating having to repeat myself on something I've already made a stance on. My answer isn't going to change unless someone provides a decent argument - not an attack.

Listen, I have no problem with your opinion, nor do I have a problem not agreeing with you. I do have a problem with your chosen method of delivery. You're rude. Me saying that is probably exactly what you were looking for. Hopefully me giving it to you will get you to consider yourself victorious and move on. If you want to discuss why you don't like me, or why you think I'm wrong, please PM me. This isn't what this thread was intended for.

No I asked you to comment on his behavior based on your screen shots, something that you have avoided answering four or five times now. Clearly you don't want to answer such questions.

No, you avoided the points I made with little more than sticking your fingers in your ears and avoiding any points made that you were unwilling to answer, clearly the key to winning any argument is to ignore any question that you are unable to answer. I haven't yet attacked you, by the way. Of course your answer isn't going to change, most of the time you just refuse to acknowledge the questions by not giving an answer.

Rude, really? I must have called you mean names, made childish remarks and told you not to be so "Butt hurt" ? No, I kept my language and demeanor civil.

Obviously you can note any questions by the presence of a question mark, that will make it easy for you to determine which bits to not reply to.

Assuming that we are done, Good day.

if you want to be good go help low levels characters in missions one a day would be sufficient.

Hiya Pumpkin, I do that most days anyway, usually for alliance members but I'm not adverse to picking up strangers along the way.

PowerRAV, you're just being mean, in a totally awesome way.

Nerel doll, I admit it, I'm tired of you. If you have questions you still would like answered, make a bulleted list. If you're going to be rude, I'm not going to answer you. (i.e. Instead of "You don't believe that you drew unwanted attention to the player by naming him on the local channel and getting people to contact the scumbag who ripped you off, after he made it clear that he didn't want to talk to you (by setting you to ignore)? Gee... really?" Say "You don't believe that you drew unwanted attention to the player by asking people to message him for you?") P.S. Don't hijack my thread with the definition of what "rude" is. I suggest you use a broad definition if you truly intend to hear my answer, and not to just cause a ruckus. Otherwise, yes, we are done.

On the topic of good people existing - I request that everyone at least attempt to be polite. For the last time - I truly respect differing opinions. Don't yell at me because mine isn't a carbon copy of yours. Instead explain to me politely why my ideas are wrong and why they should change. I'm going to stop replying to aggressive opposition. I believe that there are some people who only take up the opposing view to start a fight. If you are someone who sees a post like this that has gone unanswered, try readdressing it with me. Here or PM. If it's here, please keep the topic about good people, their presence in online gaming and whether or not they can make a difference.

Merci!

These are the kind of holier-than-thou-jerk responses I really hate. It just shows that even though there are good people in GW, there are many less of that kind on guru.

I think the guy who took the 75k got what he deserved when he was harassed. It doesn't matter if the guys harassing him did it for the fun of it. What matters is, that he was forced to return the excess gold that he took.

I also don't think that what the OP did is against the RoC. I even think that Anet would agree with me on this.

I think that the OP is a nice person, but more importantly, the OP is a person who took matters into his own hands in order to get back what is rightfully his rather than simply complaining. Kudos to the op, the more of his kind we have around, the less jerks we will see.

thats why you should confirm the trades before pressing that "trade" button so stuff like this doesnt happen.

"Merci" to you for this great thread. Guru is not GW, there are some very nice people here too.

If I may say, webforums are very different beasts from other virtual worlds, such as MMOs, because you get a bigger share of the "trolling" world, with people who actually like to come and disrupt discussions, then hiding under the "I have to agree to disagree" or "I am free to express my viewpoint" umbrella. In that case, just IGNORE the post and move on to more positive shores, which you've been doing great so far.

glad i could help

btw my IGN is assassinator ghent

Hey, I like how the original poster in this thread reffered to the other guy's actions as "evil". Really, evil is just a point of view, and the guy wasn't actually doing evil to you, in his view, because he benefited from it. You viewed it as evil because you didn't benefit from it. Crudely stated, I know, but that's one of the definitions of evil I've come across.

On the flip side, to show everyone I'm not a Devil's Advocate, I once saw someone selling a req9 Silverwing Recurve Bow for 50 ectos (I had just gotten a lucky drop that morning and had sold it for...50 ectos). My friend knew about my lucky drop, and was begging me to buy the bow and resell it for what it was REALLY worth, but I couldn't. I told the person what the price really was, and it turns out they'd gotten the crappy PC on that bow from guildwarsguru.com. Anyway I missed out on an amazing deal, but oh well, it's just a game.

edit: spelling >.<

I've met a bunch of nice people on GW. I try my best to make-up for what they've done for me, because that's in my nature. I offer help if others need help, if I don't get some help in return after a while I sometimes get irked but at the same time I just move on and keep offering the help.

A while ago, some guy was running my warrior from Ascalon to LA. He said that everytime he dies, it's -100G. By the time he got us to LA he just said 'okay, this run is for free'. I felt bad, because his frustration, and mishaps. But in the end we got there and I paid him in full, as did another player. But the rest just said their thank yous and left.

In the end we became buddies, despite his lack of appreance on the game. I helped him buy his proph armor, since it's the only campaign he owns. The first person I helped buy elite armor.

There's many other people that helped me, and I helped in return. But it wont end there.

Every now and then I'd run into rude people, but in the end they're good just presenting themselves as the opposite of what they really are. Then I'd meet the completely rude, have no respect for themselves or others, which gets to me at times.

Reading the main post is heartwarming to know that the person came through and fixed the mistake.

Impression of what? To not be stupid and give ppl 75k, instead of 75g, lol.

Seriously, it was purely ur fault, you put a number in a whole different box, and accepted seeing the 75k. I bet you this whole story was fake anyways, i mean seriously, buying green dye for 75g? Who buys green dye from other players? And really, if i tell anyone to message someone else, they will just be like "um, who r u?" and wont message me again. And some random person giving you 20 ectos? Lol, i wish i could just put some random story up on a website and get people giving me ectos, I would be happy forever amirite? NOT.

It was very heart warming and inspiring to read the story, but after I realized how stupid that story was, and how no one ever puts 75k instead of 75g... they made a button called accept trade, and your amount is there.

And oh ya, thank the bad people in this world, because if it wasnt for the aseholes in this world, you would not recognize if someone else was good.

Just my thoughts.

How did this shitty thread turn into this. Goddamn you people are hilarious. Also. Nice job getting people to harass that guy. Very honorable.

OP makes a thread called 'good people in GW do exist!'
In this thread OP claims that he: 1) Exchanged nothing and in return recieved 20 ecto.
2) Convinced players to harass another certain player (because of his own idiotic mistake)
3) Made a RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GOing thread about it.

You're a good person OP. Keep it up.

holier-than-thou-jerk responses? Wow are you some kind of idiot?

So because someone made a stupid mistake someone else should have to pay for it?
No, they shouldnt. I wouldnt take the 20e cause I'd know it was MY fault for making such a stupid choice. Someone shouldnt have to pay me because I was too dumb to check and see if I had the right amount on my trade screen.