Why XTH should remain broken

There was a poll put up by the admin on July 14th, I have crunched some numbers so the results of this poll could be understood. I arrived at the people percentages by dividing people in account groups by total people polled, and account percentages by multiplying the median of the range of accounts owned by the people in that range. (i.e. 3-5 account group was assumed to own 4 accounts... To keep things conservative people with 10+ accounts were assumed to own 10).

So if this sample (poll) is representative of the entire guild war population.

4.25% of people own 10+ accounts control approx. 15.56% of accounts of entire guild wars account population.

5.66% people with 6-9 accounts control approx. 14.53% of accounts.

23.68% of people with 3-5 accounts control approx. 34.69% of accounts.

29.75% of people with 2 accounts control 21.79% of accounts.

36.64% of people with 1 account control 13.41% of accounts.

(.02% margin of error due to rounding)

As you can see the smaller minority of people that own 6-9 accounts and 10+ accounts both on their own control more of the wealth stemming from XTH and the traveler, than the majority of the guild wars population that owns 1 account.

This separation of wealth based on how many copies of the game you buy should not exist for a "free to play" game... sure its free to play, but if you don't like playing but still want to be accomplished in game you can pay. This is real world money trading that is against your own rules ArenaNet.

If you don't like farming, trading, or earning titles. Why are you playing this game?

There are some people that say this is positive because it makes things cheaper for newer players. Yes it does make it easier to accomplish thing set in quantity by the game, but when it comes to trade you need more z-keys, gold, or ecto simply because it is worth less due to the inflation caused by XTH. Just like other real world trading was making gold less valuable to players in the first year of the game.

And for people that say "who cares wealth doesn't matter". Wealth can pay for anything, titles, runs for titles, armor, weapons, and even seen some services out there to sell fame. You can complete all guild was ranks without having to do anything but wait for your monthly z-keys. This will make accomplishments that carry over to Guild Wars 2 almost meaningless to have.

Arena net objective for producing this game was to make a game based on skill... not on length of time played... I'd hope that how much money your willing to spend would not matter either. Arena net please do not fix XTH or at least regulate it by making z-keys non trade-able. Z-keys are already wildly available for 1gold z-coin or 5k balth faction granting accessibility for both PvP and PvE players... you fixed the wealth distribution between PvE and PvP players with z-quests.

I know some of you will say "they have to fix XTH because i bought all these accounts"... if you look most guild wars boxes have "Game Experience May Change During Online Play" right under the ESRB rating... you are not guaranteed anything.

I post this because this is a community game and changes are made by players voicing there wants. Hopefully ill get some GMs attention and feedback. I would hope that the majority of people with two or less accounts will agree with me when i say there are players abusing XTH and it should be stopped or regulated. Make game accomplishments what they are again... not objects of personal desire that people pay money for in-game status.

This is how the real world works.

Just 1-2% of the population controls the wealth.

In free-to-play MMOG's just 5% of their population funds the entire server/devs/company through micro-transactions.

This is art imitating life.

To be honest, at this point in GW1's life it doesn't matter.

Yet it all boils down to me not caring about anyone else having more money than I do.

The greatest satisfaction should come from achieving your own goals. Looking at how others did it the easy way shouldn't change your self-accomplishment.

Stuff that unlocks stuff in GW2 SHOULD be easy for all GW1 players. They were meant to reward us who supported the original game, not reward elitists who maxed all titles.

haha elitists?

Wiki definition

Elitism is the belief or attitude that those individuals who are considered members of the elite—a select group of people with outstanding personal abilities, intellect, wealth, specialized training or experience, or other distinctive attributes—are those whose views on a matter are to be taken the most seriously or carry the most weight; whose views and/or actions are most likely to be constructive to society as a whole; or whose extraordinary skills, abilities or wisdom render them especially fit to govern.[1]

Why don't we just give everyone everything and call it the day then?

Im not asking to make things harder for people or anything like that. Just stating that this is Real world money trading... and it should be stopped if ArenaNet is continuing to take a aggressive stance against it. If they changed their mind about it and you can pay your way threw the game i need to find a new game. It would be like winning at a football game but at the end you still lose because someone bribed the ref.

Sure people are going to call me a cryer but when i see something happening that i don't like i try to do something about it... not sit there and hope the people in charge decide to do something.

You realize, the poll was not really accurate, right?

People who use guru are generally more hordcore than the general GW population.

I'd be willing to bet that the very, very large majority of players are actually just single account holders. Maybe even single/double campaign holders.

ANet are not breaking their own rules, because they are not subject to them.

Well you still have to pick the correct winners regardless of how many accounts you have. XTH adds a fun element to the game. Plus not everyone sells thier keys for money. Alot of people use thier keys for the excitement of opening the chest to see what they get. Anet will loose real life profit if they do not fix it due to people not buying account. I am sure they care about profits. Why people care about the value of fake money is beyond me.

This.
I own a torment shield. I have Guardian. And I almost have explorer of Elona too.
Just because other players have some trick or whatever to get those things easily, doesn't mean a poor player like myself thinks it's too easy or wants what other players do nerfed.
That said, who cares if someone has 10 accounts used for zkeys?

And Mireles, stop being a hypocrite. He's calling you a QQer because you are qqing, and don't realize it.

Kain Fz... yea same way people that didn't like Ursan got called QQers. Just means im saying something you don't like. nobody hes yet to say something positive bout XTH.. everyone just kinda shrugs and goes w/e

No. You're just saying something that is completely over-analyzing the game. You're comparing Ursan, which completely destroyed PuGGing at the cost of forcing us to grind a huge title, as apposed to the analogy of 10 people sharing their funds.

perhaps its that 1-2% that knows how to make money the right way and not follow the flow?

Stickin words in my mouth Kain never said anything bout sharing... i am saying that people shouldn't have an advantage from paying real money for more accounts. I have my reasons for not like XTH its destroying the value of currency. and you didnt like Ursan because it destroyed pugging forcing u to grind title... Some people loved ursan because it made any class usable.... everyone has thier own opinion and the fact that your even talking to me, means that you didnt like what i said enough to argue with me.

Wtf are you talking about? 10 people sharing their funds? That doesn't even make sense.

OP is exactly right. A.net bans gold sellers, but XTH is essentially Gold selling. That may not have been their original purpose, but that is what it has, in effect amounted to.

They need to re-design XTH completely. Perhaps, give people who score well access to better weapon skins or armor skins (customized, so they can't sell it ofc). Or maybe make a XTH emote and account title.

That poll was also biased, I doubt many of the casual guild wars players who are most likely to own one account also have a guru account & even if they did, probably didn't vote in the poll.

An interesting point about the distribution of wealth and the spread of accounts in the GW population, based on a relatively skewed poll coming to an incorrect conclusion.

The XTH is fun, and hopefully garners a little more interest or understanding in following the games PvP element. Fix the XTH and make the rewards earned from it non tradable.

No free cash here. Non tradable zkeys that YOU can use on the Zchest, sure you MIGHT get some uber valuable goody, but more often than not you'll be getting firewater and creme brulees.

Fix the XTH, remove the monthly payment of free cash element.

I could truthfully care less about the price of things I just play the game and enjoy it! need it be title hunting or if I am in the mood for PvP... Just enjoy the game

The forum posting community (for any game) is vastly different from the community at large and those numbers seem grossly inaccurate.

Also wealth doesn't matter. I have as much fun playing around on my alts in 1.5k armor and collector gear as I do my other characters with 15k armor and shiny weapons. Some people just enjoy playing the game, you know.

I understand points that the poll is prob not 100% representative og the guild wars population. But if your argument there is that they are that there are more single account owner... it will raise the population % of single account owners, but not affect as drastically the amount of accounts are allocated to this majority.

I don't know what Anon-e-mouse is trying to say. My points are that people should not have an advantage in a fee free game by paying real world money which is against ArenaNet is against. and for people that progress threw the game solely threw the wealth form XTH should not even be playing if they don't like farming, trading, or earning titles. becasue thats really all the game is.

I am not saying make it harder for people that are already playing. Lowering the supply of z-keys will not change the difficulty of getting other titles... just may make it harder for some people to pay others to do it for them.

I still think the OP is being a hypocrite of this highest order, flashing around his (or her) God Walking Title, which will have been a least partially paid for by way of Alcohol, Sweet, and Party points, and then wants to prevent other players from obtaining cash via the XTH.

this also doesnt take into account people like my husband and his brother---never of whom have more than one account nor a guru account to post their poll answer...I have 2, hubby one, brother one....

ok ok, wealth may not matter to people who don't participate in the economic factor of the game. i can understand that point.

You'll see the majority of the ppl that support the XTH being shut down, melt away their support if the keys were to become non-tradable. There's an agenda here. As soon as it affects them in the opposite manner, you'll see them scurry back under their rocks.

If the XTH goes away, the keys should be made non-tradable.

Anon-e-Mouse

I've been playing this game since the public beta of Prophices came out... i earned this title long before XTH became a issue. And I only own two accounts.. one for storage before character slots became available. And yes, i think people shouldn't be able to pay real cash for in game currency because if we all started doing that what would be the point of even having a game where you can farm, trade, and earn titles... we could all just buy them.

and i haven't head your reason of why XTH should stay? whats your arguement?Should ArenaNet just start allowing real world money trading?

As typical of all debates - sorry I mean "debates", on this forum absolutely no consideration is ever given to one side by the other.

As a 10+ account owner myself, I want the XTH to come back, of course. I say this realizing that what all enemies of the XTH say is true: it should never have existed in the first place. But it did, and I'm sure it will again soon.

I get the impression from many (and explicitly from a few) that the hatred for the XTH system is more directed at the account owners than at the people responsible for the creation of the system in the first place. That's not to suggest there aren't any rational ones, who divide their hate more evenly, or even exclusively towards ANet for making it in the first place.

My point is this: ANet created a system that encouraged buying multiple accounts to get gold easily. They created it an gave it their seal of approval. Why the hatred towards the people who merely did what was encouraged and rewarded? Everything you could possibly say about me or anyone else with a ton of accounts falls flat at this point.

Saying stuff like this:
is stupid when you realize I can still do that AND make a ton of extra money on the side.

On the other hand and as I said earlier, the XTH shouldn't have been created, but it's a little late for that now. The solution offered by the pro-XTHers is "bring back the XTH and damn the consequences - this game is dead anyways" and the solution offered by the anti-XTHers "damn the XTH and damn all of it's users". Of course, both of those "solutions" suck. Unfortunately I realize that's likely the only choice since the XTH was created.

Which one sucks less? I'd say they suck equally. Taking away the XTH now won't wipe out the fortunes it created and it won't put prestige (lol?) back into titles. Not only that, I'm sure it would piss off a lot of players (especially the ones who are willing to buy a lot of accounts - hint hint) who may not be so inclined to do business with ANet/NCSoft again. Leaving the XTH as is sucks too since it basically amounts to gold selling, and that's not what guild wars was supposed to be. On the other hand, the game is dying, so what the hell, right?

Whatever you choose as your final solution, only one fact remains as I see it: no matter what happens, everybody's already lost.

Oh, there's plenty to say. You just don't want to listen.

This is the second thread you've aimed at muti account owners, specifically issuing the XTH. How about the other factors/benefits? You know.....the ones you pretty much ignore in your pursuit against the XTH.

i.e. multi account farming, gifts of the traveler, afking muti accounts during festivals, fixing hero battles for championship point farming, and I'm sure that just scratches the surface.

You're hell bent on XTH. Narrow minded is clearly your forte. Funny how such an "accomplished" player never took the time to participate on the forum until now. I guess we should shut down access from the game to those that multi? You know....so they can level the playing field for those customers that only supported Anet once?

Get real.

I don't hate anyone... everyone seems to hate me because "i want to take away your free money".. and as for people getting pissed off people that own 10+ accounts are a small minority. I don't hate you Tara, i just disagree with you paying real money for your accomplishments... means that you are of equivalent skill as a person that has what you would have without XTH, but you have everything because you were willing to pay around 200 bucks for it. I find it similar to bribing a ref at a sports game... sure you could of won on your own... but you didn't.

I like your argument, yes removing XTH now wouldn't fix anything.. but it will stop it from getting worse

Your point about HOM carryover, it will only be something cosmetic as they can't have people starting out with an advantage over new players. I have 2 accounts and have never used second for XTH. Why should it stay? Because it is fun to see how your picks do and maybe you will get lucky with the chest.

to look ballin' when everyone watches me on observe. my 10+ accounts i didn't pay for help that a lot!

i never said people shouldn't own more than one account firebaall shutting down XTH will not effect your stated points

"i.e. multi account farming, gifts of the traveler, afking muti accounts during festivals, fixing hero battles for championship point farming, and I'm sure that just scratches the surface."

Then your argument should be get rid of the rewards XTH brings not XTH itself. Get rid of Z chest and Z keys. GWx2 is being used by many now especially in PvP for what...MORE Z keys.

Of coruse that is not my opinion I am just saying.

"IF" is a pretty big word! The poll is only representative of active Guild Wars Guru members. It in no way reflects the entire GW community. any conclusions you draw from the poll cannot be honestly and accurately applied to the GW community. (It's like asking how many Americans living in cities with subways use the subway and then applying the results to Americans - doesn't work!)

I disagree with me not sharing my opinions.... updates are made based on player opinions why shouldn't i be able to talk...

However i do like your idea bout changing the reward to something non trade able. As i said in the first post i think one way they could regulated XTH is make z-keys non trade able

Ahhhh...

It seams you don't have anything intelligent to say. Being a parrot, and missing the point kinda places a black mark on your responses here.

If your beef with the XTH is because people that have multiple accounts, generate extra money off them, then you should be just as outraged for multi users for those other examples. Funny how you're not. And funny how you skirted around the issue.

Bravo.

Kook~NBK~

as i said before yes i realize that it prob inst representative of the population....But i feel the guru community is still considerable large, though the percentages. may be way off i think the pattern is there.

Yes they are probably more single account owners, but also i am sure there are some people that own more than 10 accounts.

Statistics was invented so that logical conclusions can be drawn about a large population that is impossible to poll everyone but can be inferred from a smaller sample

It's more like bribing a ref at a sports game if bribery were legalized and encouraged by the league. The people doing the bribing can't be faulted when their activities are sanctioned by the people with the power to do so. Allowing such a system to exist EVER is only going to result in resentment when it does get fixed.

Should XTH be removed? From a game-integrity standpoint, I'd say yes. However, I spent a lot of money on my accounts under the impression that it wouldn't be removed. If it is, it's quite simple really - I'll just take my next $400 and spend it somewhere else. Of course, if it remains as is, you may also take your money and spend it somewhere else since you know you can't trust ANet not to make dumb policy choices regarding their games. It sucks either way.

Firebaall

you keep attacking me not my arguement... my beef is with real world trading money.. don't care about your opinion on me, you know nothing about me so it is really irrelevant. I care about your opinion on real world trading relating to XTH which few people have given me. Its hard to get your point drowned in personal attacks...

what other points bout XTH have you made this whole time besides these?

"i.e. multi account farming, gifts of the traveler, afking muti accounts during festivals, fixing hero battles for championship point farming, and I'm sure that just scratches the surface."

Just to drop in my 2 cents.. hey I am the one who created the poll, take the single accounts and double the percentage. There you have a more accurate telling of how the Guild Wars community is divided up.

So I would estimate about 70% of players have 1 account. Probably more like 20% have 2 accounts. Then the other 10% is divided between 3+ accounts with those who have 10+ accounts really being less than 1% of all players (not counting the RMT's).