Why haven't anet done more BMP stuff.

I think it's harder than that - purely due to how game mechanics work. Personally, and not to toss this off-topic, I would change it to a skill or a form, remove or reduce the penalty of it going off so that it doesn't become a 1-hit kill afterwards, and then adjust duration and recharge numbers so that there is a 1 second downtime with Deadly Paradox and Essence of Celerity. Along with that have "Cannot use any non-Assassin skills, cannot cause damage, cannot target foes" which should cut out all but one or so degen skill (Viper's Defense).

Anet would actually have an easier time with it because the wiki's go on about their product which is even copy-righted. However, two things would harm them - time they existed since then, and any "disclaimers." But meh.

But the BMP missions are still not hard, which is the point. More difficult does not mean hard. This is something you fail to realize as the BMP missions are actually very well balanced to be both easy and challenging.

And this has a point to what?

Only because Anet has given in to the massive QQ'ing by people like you who claim things are harder than they actually are.

By technical standards, no game should be made to be easy. There would be no true fun in just playing through the game, beating it in a few hours, then putting it down. Companies usually want you to keep with the game, so they'll put more challenge into it. As such, when you finally get through said challenge, there is a bigger "accomplishment." And how the game is meant to be has everything to do with the argument because you claim the BMP missions are too hard.

Which got reduced in November. Which also has had "ways of reducing grind" when the titles first came out. For the EN rep titles for instance, if you do the missions, dungeons, and vanquishes, the amount of "grinding" you have to do afterwards is minimal.

Who cares a damn should be those like you who get used to things being easy then they get fixed and you all QQ out your ass. You get too used to pampered you forget to realize things are not meant to be handed to you. So when you see well balanced things in the game such as the BMP missions, you QQ saying they are too tough like you have been doing for a whole page now.

No, I am not Anet. Yes, they do have some significance as it is at least a small part of the view of the community. I know that things I said are not only thought of by me. Like I said before, the game shouldn't be a complete "easy mode" and those who want things to be easier should really get a slap in the face and grow up and realize not only is not everything given to them but things are not always fun if you can just plow through them. All those people want are the rewards, rewards shouldn't be given to those who don't enjoy the experience. Those same people who want rewards usually end up being the ones who QQ the most, whether it is complaining things are too strong/hard, or complaining some things are too weak. Usually it comes in the combination of "areas are too hard" and "these skills I like are too weak" - sadly, these are also the most vocal of the gaming community and thus Anet listens to them the most, which tosses the game further out of balance. These same people seem to enjoy grinding for whatever reason known to man, and as such, Anet also listens and has added rewards for time spent playing, not skill - which, once more, these people have seemingly forgotten about, that is, in the case of the game being about skill and not time or grinding, or even, to be honest, rewards.

It is because of these people I seldom enter Riverside and even less visit
Sardelac.

Because I dont care about the lore/story and I the items skins aquired from the BMP don't appeal to me.

Basically.

lol what?

I got something for free, and I dont want to use it, so that makes me a spoiled brat?

Stop trying to argue with everyone about something no one cares about.

your starting to look very, very stupid.

Whatever it is Anet is not doing, they better do something fast, because, when you run out of things to discuss on a fan forums, the end is near!

I log on after a period of absent, the same old topic is still there and everyone is basically talking about the same old thing over and over and over and over .... and over.

now is the time for something new to talk about, the interest wears thin!

and i quote bilbo baggins, because this is exactly how i feel now! well, except the old part

Of course the BMP missions are easy, but MOST of the NM missions are even easier. Another way of saying that is, the BMP missions are harder relative to MOST of the NM missions. How's that for English 101?


And this has a point to what?

No, I did not say they are too hard. I said they are harder than most of the NM missions. By the way I completed all of them plus discoveries on all my characters, without cons or overpowered builds copied from pvx.

You dont have to twist my words. I also said they are too hard compared to the reward given which is 500g and a customized weapon plus no monster loot. I can get better rewards in easier NM missions so why play BMP?

I don't know, because it's fun?

I never understood this philosophy: I only play Guild Wars for the loot.

What's the point? If you don't like the game, who cares what loot you have?

Oh yeah it was fun the FIRST time through. Second time through it was ok. Third time was getting boring. Fourth time...zzzz...

After all the discoveries are made, it is not worth playing them anymore.

Part of the fun of the game is finding new loot. Thats what some people find fun anyway and I am one of them.

That is right. Since the weapons are customized to your character, you have to do them for each of your characters if you need weapons for each of them or their heroes, other than the discovery bonuses which unlocks it for any character on your account. But that is only once per account for each bonus.

Since it has hardly any replay value, the fun is extremely shorted-lived for the money you pay and it is not worth farming it too, so the net worth of the BMP is low.

Right, I get that, I enjoy a rare drop as well.

I'm just saying it shouldn't be the only reason for playing a game.

WoW has some cool loot too, but I don't play it, because I don't enjoy the game as much as Guild Wars.

Basically: Game > Loot

Well, that's cool, like I said earlier the BMPs are not designed to be farmed or anything. If you got 4 playthroughs, I'd say you got your money's worth.

Which is my entire point: are we buying games to play them, or are we buying games just for virtual stuff?

But it doesn't get much more grindy than vanquishing.

If it is not designed to be farmed then you have to think of how to extend its lifetime.

Sure you can have nice content, but in today's MMO, players burn through those content very quickly. If your game has no replay value, then there is no reason for them to stick around. No matter how much I hate grind and farming, I still understand the reason for their existence.

If you only get to use it for 2 days, then it is not as worth it, especially as a pricing item. If you take WoW's month-to-month at $15 a month, that is about 50 cents a day assuming 30 days/month. If BMP is priced at $10 and you only get to enjoy it for 2 days, then you are paying $5 a day for it, which is more expensive than even WoW's month-to-month subscription.

First, not everyone got the BMP for free - most people I know who have it didn't, and I wouldn't consider paying for something then getting the BMP as a bonus "free" anyways. Second, not trying to argue with everyone, just those I view are incorrect. But as that is more of an opinion than anything, I suppose it would be pointless in arguing with certain people who don't enjoy a good debate. And there is not a single person who does not look stupid in at least one other person's eyes.

Must be part of being a mod that almost everyone in Riverside dislikes you... Anyways, ignoring the english comment/implied insult, You should note that NM missions are designed for low level characters, especially in Prophecies, for a fair number of times. While in the BMP, level does not matter, and as such, the BMP missions will be 100% balanced. If you level faster than originally intended (which seem to be the level of the henchmen) in Prophecies, the missions will become easier. I don't find the level 20 missions easier (at least, on a large scale, there are some exceptions) than the BMP. So do put into consideration the level in which missions were designed for. You should also take out the consideration of things which were designed after the missions were. For example, consets in Prophecies, Factions, and Nightfall; or summoning stones in all games; or PvE-skills (technically in all games since the EN ones got nice big buffs).

The constant nerfing or buffing of various things which make the game easier. Due to this, things which are not hard, such as the BMP, are viewed as "hard" in the game. Likewise, when things are made easier, those which are used to, or enjoyed, the harder things can go back to the now easier version of something which was decent to hard and laugh at it. Prime example: THK.

While you did not say the BMP is too hard, you implied one of two things: The NM missions are too easy, or the BMP missions are too hard. I don't think I need to explain how you implied this. However, with you arguing against the BMP, it would then be clear that you are arguing the later, instead of the former, for if you were arguing the former, then you'd be arguing for missions of the difficulty of the BMP.

It's the materialistic view, play only for gain. Which is ridiculous, playing for gain when the gain means absolutely nothing. Though, it would just be like someone's hobby I suppose - since usually a hobby has no gain aside from self-satisfaction or enjoyment.

This is really the point in any kind of playable content. Any NM mission, or HM mission, once you do everything in the mission (i.e., complete it, get the bonus or the masters, and with that the title points), it ends up being boring. The only reason why, in the long run, they have been replayable is due to two factors: There has been time placed between the replays (the bigger factor, in my opinion) and one can go through the game in a different profession. True the second has no hold over the BMP, but the first does. Of course, as the BMP is a side thing, once one finds it "boring" they will not return. Much like how most people skip the Maguuma in Prophecies, sometimes skip all up to Sanctum Cay, then skip Ice Caves and Iron Mines missions.

Depends on your definition of grind. If you really look at things, rolling a new character after beating the game is grind, as your doing the same thing again, even if it is a different profession. However, you can also think of it as doing the same thing in the same location. In the first instance, even guardian is grind, in the second, only farming is grind. Thus we get the first difference in opinion on grind. The second being whether it is enjoyable or not. And if it is, I don't want their job if they enjoy that as well.

Not really, since GW as a whole is not pay to play, nothing ever has to really get added, and Anet won't gain or lose a penny.

A better kind of extension of "game life" would be to add new content constantly, in my opinion, as constant grind, while it does serve its purpose, eventually makes people leave. GW, with the grind being optional, deals with grind rather well. No one forces you to get titles, so even that grind is optional. However, without going for titles, one cannot play the game often or they will finish the game quickly. It's a predicament in every game, and this field is where no-subscription games thrive, as the company for those games are not dependent on people continuing to play the game.

I don't think the term "day" is appropriate here, as some people may play for an hour a day, while others may play for 8 hours. All missions in the game take roughly 30 minutes, with 3 discoveries per mission, and 4 missions, assuming the first go has no discoveries made, we get 8 hours worth of game play without "pointless" repeating. Assuming, of course, there are no mission failures as well. Though it may seem even less like that, you also then must consider how much the average player gets done in WoW and how much the player plays, for the comparison. Which, suffice it to say, would be a very big difference, but then again, why are you even comparing a small "pack" to a full game?

I feel like I lost my train of thought on the last bit... I need sleep, it's 6 am ~_~

I suppose I see GW as a hobby then. I find the fun in GW is gaining wealth and titles, even if in reality, they have no real value or meaning, but to be honest its just a game, what I find fun doesn't mean other people have to find the same things fun, some people enjoy grinding, some people don't, some people care about storylines and lore, some people don't. Of the people that I have asked on my friends list about the BMP, alot of them have it from getting EotN from the ingame shop, but most of them have never even been on it. Maybe thats because they have a similar mindset to me, or maybe not, but in the end if A-net makes a new BMP, unless there are ways of attaining it with out purchasing it from the ingame shop for real money, then i don't belive that many people would purchase it.

I would defo buy it

So, if cometing BMP gave you title, you would play it? Or if it gave you hom statue?

What difference to you is the rage unique weapon to title - ain't it pretty much the same thing, some badge that shows "been there - done that"?

You called him a spoilt brat for not using his BMP, even though he already said that he got his BMP for free earlier in this thread.

Then you try to justify yourself by saying "not everyone got it for free..". How does that give you the right to call someone a spoilt brat? You have to flame someone just because he doesn't like to use his BMP?

And you seem to enjoy flaming anyone who dont agree with you. You must have an extremely large epeen of yourself.

You must be grasping at straws if you have to argue with me about reaching level 20 in this game. How common are level 20s, really?

They are easier, just pick a relevant overpowered team build (e.g. discordway) in pvxwiki and you are done.

Why should I? Wake up and smell the roses, cons are already part of this game are they not? And they are plentiful. Just because their presence already put you in the losing side of this argument, doesn't mean we should ignore them for your convenience.

You twisted my words, and I explained it. You then ignored my explainations and insisted on your twisted version.

Of course the BMP missions are easy, but MOST of the NM missions are even easier. How's that?

So farming is ridiculous to you?

And selling an addon that is only good for 2 days wouldn't affect their sales? Slice it anyway you want, a $10 game/addon that is only good for 2 days is not worth it.

Even grind can be enjoyable to some people. Without grind, then it doesn't have replay value. Alternatively ANet can always add new content of course, but that would take their resources from GW2 so they can't spare that. Without new content, they have to introduce some element of grind to extend the lifetime of the game or addon.

Actually zwei2stein, it is not the same thing. Having it as a maxable title works towards the KoaBD title and helps towards transferring your achievements (whatever that would be) to GW2.

*sigh* when I called him such, he either did not yet say it was for free, or it was too far back for me to recall. Not everyone re-reads a whole thread, or looks for posts of someone before replying for a single post. Nor does everyone have perfect memory. I doubt you do any of that and that you are only using this as a way to get at me.

I don't enjoy flaming. If I do, it comes second handed and without thought. I don't consider myself to have any kind of "epeen" - or ego, as the real word for it is. Though I won't say I don't have an ego, because everyone does. It most certainly isn't large seeing how I even "insulted" myself in one of my more recent posts, and in fact this post even. I think that is enough to prove that I don't think highly of myself, no one who cares about things other than himself really would think too highly of himself. In order to care for things, one usually (note: not always) have to think highly for them, since I do care for things aside from myself, I don't think highly of myself as I do for others, thus would mean my ego isn't an "extremely large epeen." Though that would mean nothing to you, as this is just over the internet. Right now, you are acting more foolishly than I am by insulting me with those things. At least I have admitted myself to be wrong with dunky_g.

I'm not arguing about reaching level 20. You misunderstand. I mean being a higher level than what the areas were meant for would make those areas easier.

You do not listen do you? I said to ignore the things that came out after those things were made. Along with that, to ignore the highly overpowered builds which clearly where not considered with making and balancing the game. The old "invincimonk" is perfect example of something not thought of when making the game.

Just because they are part of this game, doesn't mean the game was originally built for them to exist. Again, you fail to grasp what I said, it seems. And no, that is not a flame, that apparently is an observation based on your response.

I did not so much as "insisted on" my "twisted version" as I did state how your wording originally sounded and my understanding of your original wording. No where did I mention upon your new explanation. Though, I assume that, like before, you also do not consider what the game was balanced around, and instead consider what you currently have - level 20s in level 1-20 areas, with heroes, consumables, summoning stones, PvE-only skills, and team builds that were not expected when said skills were made.

To put it bluntly: Yes. But it is an opinion, and there is nothing wrong with opinions.

You are merely re-stating something I actually conceded.

So then, if the BMP weapons were addable to the HoM, then it would be the same (or close enough to say the "same").

Although not everyone has a perfect memory, you should still check out the thread first before starting to flame someone, otherwise it would just make you look foolish. Furthermore, he didn't flame you.

Yes being a higher level does make it easier.

Why aren't you listening? Why do you keep talking about history and intentions? Most normal missions RIGHT NOW, are easier than the BMP missions. I am not interested in speculating ANet's "intentions" or original designs. I am talking about CURRENT FACTS or current state of affair in the game.

Again, that is irrelevant.

Despite how you think they sounded, I have already explained them clearly.

When were they made is irrelevant, just think about the here and now. Right now, most of the normal missions are much easier than the BMP missions period. It is a simple observation that holds true today.

The weapons would still serve a different purpose from titles, but yes, they would be more useful.

Why hasn't Anet done more like the BMP?
Because the mass isn't interested in paying 5-10 euro's for 4 crappy missions and some unique weapon skins.

And my personal reason... There was a time when you could order something via the online shop and get the BMP for free. Unfortunatly I belong to the large number of people that complained that we couldn't buy something via the online store because of limited payment options. They said they would fix it... it wasn't in time. Now... I don't spend money on it because I know it's bad.

I guess many people thought the same. I wonder how much money they really made with the "change your name" and "change your look" update. Cause I wasn't interested in those either and I can't say I've been a casual player during the last 4 years. Honestly... I really don't know anyone who bought the BMP or changed his characters looks/name.

I would not buy a 2nd BMP if it was single player again. I feel like I was duped after buying the 1st one. I had to do the missions by my self and then the reward was only new skinned items that I could not trade to anyone or sell to anyone. How fun....I want my money back still!

Agree. That is what I have been saying all along. The BMP missions difficulty does not commensurate with their rewards.

Since they are more difficult than most normal missions, they should have higher rewards. It is not like you can receive monster loot in the BMP missions either.

Daesu, that's not the same. You really think your point of view gets stronger in the eyes of those who you heavily debate with in this thread by twisting other peoples words?

Why is it twisting words? It is because it is single player that is why it is more difficult. Otherwise people would be bringing discordway or some overpowered SC team build.

There are other additional aspects that make the missions more challenging than the normal missions, like the inability to use cons and having a fixed skill bar so you cant rely on someone's overpowered pvx build on your own character either.

I'm glad that GW is offering you a good gaming experience.

I got 2 GWAMM and didn't use any consumable sets and still think the game is easy. I wish I could share your thoughts about how challenging the missions are.

Good luck on your adventures.

Lol! I would say the same thing to you. Of course the BMP missions are easy, but most of the normal missions are easier. How's that?

I dont understand why people would think the normal missions are that difficult with or without cons. Throughout GW history, PvE has never been easier with buffed up Shadow Form clearing UW in less than 15mins through UWSC, 600/smite, 55, discordway, pve skills, etc. Cons just bring whatever difficulty down even further into retard level. Even GWAMM doesn't mean much now that so many people have it. It only takes grind time to achieve.

Well, I guess I'm in the minority.

If ArenaNet wants to make BMP popular, they will either have to make the weapons sellable (imagine the QQ: ArenaNet is selling gold for real money!)
or make them farmable without making weapons tradable. (?)

I hope Anet has some better ideas than I do....

I'm confused. You didn't do this because the rewards were not worth it. I feel the same way about the BMP. I bought it, did only 2 of the missions and decided it wasn't worth doing. So how are we different?

I guess we aren't....

I probably should do the Golem Quest... it gives you 10k, right?

Actually I haven't completely finished it either. I did the last Golem NOX yesterday. He was very challenging to say the least. Now all I have to do is go to Zinns Hideout for my reward.

For me though the BMP just doesn't appeal to me. If Anet needs to make money I would gladly pay for thing like the EotN expansions. I love the dungeons so if they just made a package of new elite dungeons, without all the other stuff like skills and what not, I would probably buy that.

I would pay $5-10 on say 2-3 elite dungeons like a new UW or FoW. Maybe they could be set in the other gods realms. Like a "heaven" type area for Dwayna or a Forest/Jungle for Melandru. Not sure what Lyssa's area would look like though

Honestly, the BMP probably just didn't sell enough copies to justify making another. I doubt it covered the cost of having to pay people to make it.

You're fully right here, though I wasn't referring to him on the flaming part. I was referring to you.

Which I still am unsure if you consider that in "most NM missions are easier."

Let me put it like this: If Anet were to remake the game, mission difficulties, etc. based on what there currently is, most things would be much harder in NM than the BMP missions.

Actually, it is highly relevant. But you don't seem to get why it is. I keep rewording it so you'd get it, and what I just said is the last I can figure out how to. True, when they were made is irrelevant, but the changes since they were made is completely and fully relevant. If PvE skills were never introduced, if summoning stones were never introduced, if consets of any kind were never introduced, if you don't include skills made after the game of the missions in question, then the missions would be as intended and would be more difficult (note: not difficult, more difficult) than they are now, and many would more than likely be on par with the BMP missions.

He never said it was difficult though. Also, I guess that means possibly the two easiest missions, you find one of the most difficult? That is, Augury Rock and Tihark Orchard.

I really do not see how this is a problem when you have a balanced bar with at least one, usually two, overpowered skills. And I still don't see how conset should justify a mission being more or less difficult. I mean, yes, they do make missions less difficult, but I don't see why you would base difficulty on whether you can use consets or not, because for 90% of things in GW, I find consets a waste of money.

Even at a corresponding level, below level 20, they are STILL easier than the BMP missions.

I doubt that. Keep in mind that ANet has always been in control of their own game. They decided to make the game easier by buffing many skills and introducing overpowered PvE skills. They would make the same decision again, all things being equal.

I agree, the buffs that they made are relevant.

But reality dictates otherwise, and it is useless to argue over the "what-ifs". The only facts that we know for sure is that PvE skills and cons DO EXIST. And that is the current reality.

Even without PvE skills and cons, there are still overpowered PvE versions of normal skills, like Discord to fuel discordway. No matter how you slice it, normal missions are still easier than BMP missions.

It doesn't need to be difficult. It only needs to be more difficult relative to the normal missions. I am sure Tihark Orchard and Augury Rock would have been alot easier if you can bring a full team in.

Cons cheapen an achievement, this is why it doesn't mean much as a legendary vanquisher nowadays. With cons, many maxed titles are easily achievable. They just take grind time, so if you dont have a taxing full time job or kids in real life, you have an edge in terms of earning KoaBD titles because the game is so dumbed down nowadays.

You may find it a waste of money, but people who use cons obviously dont think it is a waste of money to use them. You can claim that you dont use cons to achieve your titles, but there is no way for you to prove that and the guy next to you, wearing the same title, can always say the same thing.

At least wielding a BMP weapon, however, proves that you did not cheat to earn it.

*turns ghostly-white*

No. No, you don't.

That's the kind of thing that the slashfics of nightmares are made of...

I'm going to go bleach my brain now...

"Yore ar mah naw" True Blood style? I'd like to see that. Homoerotic is a-must, too. Would be pointless otherwise.