95% of the time, the AB map is either Grenz or Ancestral. I haven't seen a Lux map of any kind in a couple months, despite playing like 5-6 days per week. About a week ago I saw it on the middle map for an hour then it quickly went back to Grenz.
Perhaps some kind of change is needed to fix this?
The AB maps never change - admin help needed
cebalrai
Black Metal
the faction line has been about half way into kurz territory for months on end virtually constantly (the only exceptions have been during faction weekends). I've been watching it carefully, and the game has settled into an equilibrium.
FoxBat
A million threads on it already, but I say nerf JQ/FA or buff AB rewards. Most of the decent kurzicks are farming the auto-win places for double the rewards, leaving the less capable kurzicks to fend for themselves in ABs.
YunSooJin
Quote:
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Originally Posted by cebalrai
95% of the time, the AB map is either Grenz or Ancestral. I haven't seen a Lux map of any kind in a couple months, despite playing like 5-6 days per week. About a week ago I saw it on the middle map for an hour then it quickly went back to Grenz.
Perhaps some kind of change is needed to fix this? |
HawkofStorms
LOL.
You clearly were not playing Factions when it first came out. When the game was new, the faction line pretty much NEVER moved. It was always Saltspray. Always. I think it took 2 weeks before we even saw another map. It was a good 2-3 months into the game before we saw one of the deep in enemy territory maps.
They changed the coding of the faction line by adding "momentum" that pushes the line deeper into enemy territory then it really is supposed to go to correct that. The line now moves far more frequently then it used to.
PS, It isn't that Kurzicks suck at AB, its that speed clears or HFFF are so much more efficent in Kurzick areas, that all the people who want Kurzick faction with half a brain do that, leaving only causal players or newbies on the Kurzick side. Hardcore faction grinders on the Luxon side are more likely to play AB.
You clearly were not playing Factions when it first came out. When the game was new, the faction line pretty much NEVER moved. It was always Saltspray. Always. I think it took 2 weeks before we even saw another map. It was a good 2-3 months into the game before we saw one of the deep in enemy territory maps.
They changed the coding of the faction line by adding "momentum" that pushes the line deeper into enemy territory then it really is supposed to go to correct that. The line now moves far more frequently then it used to.
PS, It isn't that Kurzicks suck at AB, its that speed clears or HFFF are so much more efficent in Kurzick areas, that all the people who want Kurzick faction with half a brain do that, leaving only causal players or newbies on the Kurzick side. Hardcore faction grinders on the Luxon side are more likely to play AB.
cebalrai
Quote:
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Originally Posted by HawkofStorms
LOL.
You clearly were not playing Factions when it first came out. When the game was new, the faction line pretty much NEVER moved. It was always Saltspray. Always. I think it took 2 weeks before we even saw another map. It was a good 2-3 months into the game before we saw one of the deep in enemy territory maps. They changed the coding of the faction line by adding "momentum" that pushes the line deeper into enemy territory then it really is supposed to go to correct that. The line now moves far more frequently then it used to. PS, It isn't that Kurzicks suck at AB, its that speed clears or HFFF are so much more efficent in Kurzick areas, that all the people who want Kurzick faction with half a brain do that, leaving only causal players or newbies on the Kurzick side. Hardcore faction grinders on the Luxon side are more likely to play AB. |
BTW yeah I was playing AB when it first came out, regularly. I did see a focus on Saltspray, but I saw the full range of maps tbh.
The Air Revenger
yeah, AB is one of the worst options for kurzick faction, so most that are trying to win go elseware. AB needs a big buff (for both sides) like double faction all the time or something that would make people want to play AB for the faction.
Dawn Angelheart
Quote:
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Originally Posted by HawkofStorms
It isn't that Kurzicks suck at AB, its that speed clears or HFFF are so much more efficent in Kurzick areas, that all the people who want Kurzick faction with half a brain do that, leaving only causal players or newbies on the Kurzick side. Hardcore faction grinders on the Luxon side are more likely to play AB.
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Its on double ab weekends, good kurzicks "come out to play" then the map is on luxon side for 3/4 of the weekend.
lewis91
They should scrap the current map system. And just add in a simple rotation, a new map every day, or a new map every 2 hours or something...
But i didn't think anyone played AB any more
But i didn't think anyone played AB any more
dilan155
Quote:
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Originally Posted by lewis91
They should scrap the current map system. And just add in a simple rotation, a new map every day, or a new map every 2 hours or something...
But i didn't think anyone played AB any more |
Lux Aeterna
They should nerf VFF faction speed faction clears etc, it's bad for the game when getting a title is just about repeatedly 600smiting some area which is extremely boring and sucks players away from the pvp side to go grind grind grind.
TLDR: Factions vanquishing = boring and bad for the game.
TLDR: Factions vanquishing = boring and bad for the game.
The Scorpion Knight
They really need to do automatic rotations, really tired of the current maps.
cebalrai
Automatic rotations would be sweet and I think the vast majority of the community would be in favor of it. Does Regina or someone read these threads these days?
carbajac
Quote:
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Originally Posted by The Scorpion Knight
They really need to do automatic rotations, really tired of the current maps.
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the Puppeteer
the AB map system works - the only problem is that good kurzicks don't play AB unless it's a special weekend since JQ gives superior rewards
the solution wont be making the maps change after a certain time.
To solve the problem just boost the AB win rewards to pair it up with JQ so kurz actually have a reason to play it.
or all luxons could shift and go play JQ
the solution wont be making the maps change after a certain time.
To solve the problem just boost the AB win rewards to pair it up with JQ so kurz actually have a reason to play it.
or all luxons could shift and go play JQ
thetechx
they took away fighting for favor of the gods between regions, why not take away fighting for territory in factions. im all for a map rotation every two to three hours
Arduin
Admins (administrators) are for Forums, it's Devs (developers) you are looking for.
Jetdoc
I'm Luxon, and I personally love the maps the way they are. The additional faction gained by being in Kurzick territory is simply sweet, and the win-to-loss ratio is still heavily in favor of the Luxons.
Variety would be nice, but the rewards are well worth the sacrifice of variety, IMO.
Variety would be nice, but the rewards are well worth the sacrifice of variety, IMO.
glacialphoenix
I really, really want to see AB get rewards buffed, myself. JQ/FA used to be pretty damn empty, but now AB's getting the short end of the stick. It needs better rewards. =\ That'd attract better players back to Kurz side tbh. Double weekend is when I sit there excitedly waiting for Kaanai to turn up, because that's the only time I SEE Kaanai. Or, you know, forget Kaanai or Etnaran, Saltspray.
ArlanKels
Why not just make it so that the advantage that your faction/side has when you're pushed back further into your territory is increased more so than what it is now, in some fashion or other. That way you can keep the momentum, which allows for rapid map changes, and also it'd make it so that one side dominating another completely wouldn't happen as often.
Lykan
Everyones complaining but its their own fault. AB has become very stagnant because its always the same players farming in the same guilds.
If you're bored, mix it up and change sides.
The more people that switch the more competition there will be.
If you're bored, mix it up and change sides.
The more people that switch the more competition there will be.
fenix
You know what change needs to be made to the game to fix it?
Kurzicks need to stop sucking.
That, or lower the reward from JQ so there's a reason to AB again.
Kurzicks need to stop sucking.
That, or lower the reward from JQ so there's a reason to AB again.
Sora267
They could implement double (or triple) faction when the map is in your territory. That way, the good players would only play when their faction is losing in general, and the maps would move around a little more.
FengShuiDove
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sora of the Divine
They could implement double (or triple) faction when the map is in your territory. That way, the good players would only play when their faction is losing in general, and the maps would move around a little more.
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P.S. Hi Stranger! Didn't notice it was you
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Risus
Quote:
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Originally Posted by HawkofStorms
LOL.
You clearly were not playing Factions when it first came out. When the game was new, the faction line pretty much NEVER moved. It was always Saltspray. Always. I think it took 2 weeks before we even saw another map. It was a good 2-3 months into the game before we saw one of the deep in enemy territory maps. They changed the coding of the faction line by adding "momentum" that pushes the line deeper into enemy territory then it really is supposed to go to correct that. The line now moves far more frequently then it used to. PS, It isn't that Kurzicks suck at AB, its that speed clears or HFFF are so much more efficent in Kurzick areas, that all the people who want Kurzick faction with half a brain do that, leaving only causal players or newbies on the Kurzick side. Hardcore faction grinders on the Luxon side are more likely to play AB. |
Lexar
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Risus
Completely wrong. Luxons do MQSC, averaging 10-11k faction in 6-8 minutes. Kurzicks do DTSC, which is an average of 15-16k faction in 7-10 minutes. NO HARD CORE FACTION GRINDERS ARE FOUND IN AB. AB is simply a collection of gamers who desire more unorganized large scale PvP. The fact that Kurzicks are stuck is no suprise, as the more advanced players tend to sway Luxon because the better armor skins, the much more easily navigatable areas, etc.
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I think at some point in the past months, the Luxons just arbitrarily started winning a little bit more, and competitive players tend to want to win and moved to the Luxon side, which caused them to win more, and it becomes a spiral.
I'm not saying the competitive players are the best players, but they're better than average.
Maybe the Luxons originally started winning more because they had a much shorter waiting time, so the average Luxon has played more AB than the average Kurzick in the same timespan. More matches = more practice.
Esprit
Until the faction is balanced out, AB is going to be stuck where it is at now.
Jade Quarry (Kurzick)
1. Long waits
2. High percentage of winning
3. High rewards (3x the win amount on a Kurzick controlled AB map)
4. Losses still net high rewards (often higher than an AB on a Kurzick controlled map)
5. Short games (so losses are easier to stomach)
Kurzick Controlled Alliance Battle Map
1. Long waits
2. Chances of winning are random (i.e. not so good)
3. A win gains you okay faction, but not great (compared to the other sources)
4. Losses are more devastating, netting only the number of points you have (always less than 500)
5. Long games (if you do not win/lose when a team holds all 7 points for more than 60 seconds) and losing a game takes a long time
It boils down to the time vs. reward aspect. Alliance Battles are the worst time investment to rewards. To even see the reward levels in AB compared to JQ or SC's you have to win in a map that is severely stacked against you (Kanaai / Ancestral).
Increase the AB faction rewards is a good step. Reducing the map advantage may even be advisable so that players do not simply play on homefield advantage.
Jade Quarry (Kurzick)
1. Long waits
2. High percentage of winning
3. High rewards (3x the win amount on a Kurzick controlled AB map)
4. Losses still net high rewards (often higher than an AB on a Kurzick controlled map)
5. Short games (so losses are easier to stomach)
Kurzick Controlled Alliance Battle Map
1. Long waits
2. Chances of winning are random (i.e. not so good)
3. A win gains you okay faction, but not great (compared to the other sources)
4. Losses are more devastating, netting only the number of points you have (always less than 500)
5. Long games (if you do not win/lose when a team holds all 7 points for more than 60 seconds) and losing a game takes a long time
It boils down to the time vs. reward aspect. Alliance Battles are the worst time investment to rewards. To even see the reward levels in AB compared to JQ or SC's you have to win in a map that is severely stacked against you (Kanaai / Ancestral).
Increase the AB faction rewards is a good step. Reducing the map advantage may even be advisable so that players do not simply play on homefield advantage.
Lexar
If they keep increasing rewards, it'll be easier to max the title. It's like sawing a piece of the table to make it even, and then another piece to make it more even and then another one and another one etc. And then you don't have a table left, just like the inflation of faction makes the title worth less.
I say, decrease the other rewards a tad and increase AB a little bit as well. Just so that they're all equally good choices if you consider time spent.
I say, decrease the other rewards a tad and increase AB a little bit as well. Just so that they're all equally good choices if you consider time spent.
cebalrai
This needs attention still, bad. The map is ancestral 2/3 of the time and grenz 1/3, and it's getting worse.
Sankt Hallvard
Guild leader changed us to kurzick since he's maxed his luxon faction. Then we went AB on grenz and lost horribly. There is no doubt that luxons are vastly superior to kurzicks. Luxons run almost exclusively balanced groups with wikibars, mo/w, r/mo, e/p, prage w/bash. As kurzicks we had problems even finding an ele who would use fire.
On top of the huge increase in difficulty(This alone would be ok, I don't ab for faction so a challenge is fine.) there's also the much longer waiting time as kurzick. Several minutes while the timer restarts while as luxons we usually went straight in. We're changing back.
On top of the huge increase in difficulty(This alone would be ok, I don't ab for faction so a challenge is fine.) there's also the much longer waiting time as kurzick. Several minutes while the timer restarts while as luxons we usually went straight in. We're changing back.
Sarevok Thordin
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Sankt Hallvard
Guild leader changed us to kurzick since he's maxed his luxon faction.
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lilDeath
People still play AB?
Why would they do that if FFF, JQ and FA exists?
The smart Kurzicks don't play AB anymore, so that's why the map stays the same.
Why would they do that if FFF, JQ and FA exists?
The smart Kurzicks don't play AB anymore, so that's why the map stays the same.
Jaran Cell
You'r forgetting that FFF, JQ and FA are dead boring mate.
Coraline Jones
From what I can tell, anything PvP-related to the Faction War--AB, FA, and JQ--are some of the most broken and messed up parts of the whole game. There's no way that ArenaNet can't know about it as anybody can tell just from playing three to four rounds of them. Since it's been this way for numerous months, my strong belief is that they simply do not care, or they have given up trying to fix them as they are so broken that nothing can be done.
Both JQ and AB are dominated by cookie-cutter builds and have rampant griefing problems. Everybody agrees that TA and RA are dominated by metagame, but JQ and FA are the same way and they have no fixes forthcoming. Most of the serious PvP players treat the arenas as a joke, so I suspect that ArenaNet does too. The leeching is so bad that it is not funny. Today, one player intentionally griefed for ten minutes straight. I.e., he intentionally committed suicide for the entire game. In the end, only three people reported him. The apathy is so bad that people now just tolerate poor sportsmanship regardless of how blatant it is.
AB has long been a joke arena. Even if you are playing your hardest and have a great team setup, you can still lose because you're playing with two other unknown teams who can screw around or be totally ineffective for the entire round. As people have stated, there are now many ways to obtain Faction, and AB is probably the slowest method of them all. I kind of wonder why AB hasn't been buffed in rewards to at least encourage people to run it seriously. The reason why Kurzicks don't win at AB is because everybody that used to play it well has gone to DTSC or other methods of grinding faction.
Both JQ and AB are dominated by cookie-cutter builds and have rampant griefing problems. Everybody agrees that TA and RA are dominated by metagame, but JQ and FA are the same way and they have no fixes forthcoming. Most of the serious PvP players treat the arenas as a joke, so I suspect that ArenaNet does too. The leeching is so bad that it is not funny. Today, one player intentionally griefed for ten minutes straight. I.e., he intentionally committed suicide for the entire game. In the end, only three people reported him. The apathy is so bad that people now just tolerate poor sportsmanship regardless of how blatant it is.
AB has long been a joke arena. Even if you are playing your hardest and have a great team setup, you can still lose because you're playing with two other unknown teams who can screw around or be totally ineffective for the entire round. As people have stated, there are now many ways to obtain Faction, and AB is probably the slowest method of them all. I kind of wonder why AB hasn't been buffed in rewards to at least encourage people to run it seriously. The reason why Kurzicks don't win at AB is because everybody that used to play it well has gone to DTSC or other methods of grinding faction.
Sarevok Thordin
I do agree that for the time investment AB gives hideously low rewards, no wonder it has become so low.
I think the rewards should be in the 5 figures for winners now, THAT'S a way to get people coming in. Then again it could attract it's share of leechers
I think the rewards should be in the 5 figures for winners now, THAT'S a way to get people coming in. Then again it could attract it's share of leechers
Lifestyle
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Jetdoc
I'm Luxon, and I personally love the maps the way they are. The additional faction gained by being in Kurzick territory is simply sweet, and the win-to-loss ratio is still heavily in favor of the Luxons.
Variety would be nice, but the rewards are well worth the sacrifice of variety, IMO. |
/Sarcasm end
headlesshobbs
It used to be much better balanced before we had updates to boost mainly JQ faction and somehow caused most kurz players to use it as a faction dump, taking whatever reason we had for playing AB right out the window. The only way we're going to rebalance this is by making all territory have a direct effect on what you can gain anywhere. Lose too much and either JQ/FA will be ''OFF LIMITS'' as well as the proper faction balance for getting further into enemy territory. If we can't have AB stick to being the deciding factor for everything on this map, then it's pointless.
cebalrai
Well, yeah AB isn't "serious" pvp, but at this stage of GW's lifespan I'll take fun where I can find it.
The solution is very easy to implement - simply rebalance faction gained from these types of pvp.
Why doesnt anet do anything?
The solution is very easy to implement - simply rebalance faction gained from these types of pvp.
Why doesnt anet do anything?
Qing Guang
What I found was that those of us Kurz who had any skill at all got so frustrated we quit ABing, leaving only the sucky players who a) mob (seriously, that only works for Lux, don't ask why) b) camp the same shrine, leaving all the rest to fall and/or c) get caught up in skirmishing other players and ignore the shrines entirely. They must have been increasing in number, or something, and I guess all the decent players got fed up and left, probably for FA and JQ or something. Personally, I'd finished Factions on those characters that were going to, so I didn't need the faction anymore (my guild has pretty much given up on faction at this point, and our schedules conflict so much we don't have time to get together and AB anyway).
Also, Kurz have always had more faction-giving quests than Lux, making AB (or any form of Faction PvP) completely unnecessary for the "big farm". And our FFF is (or was - never did it, so I don't know how the updates have changed it) easier, I've heard.
Also, Kurz have always had more faction-giving quests than Lux, making AB (or any form of Faction PvP) completely unnecessary for the "big farm". And our FFF is (or was - never did it, so I don't know how the updates have changed it) easier, I've heard.
Martin Alvito
There is no stable equilibrium that encourages players to play all three formats.
One of the following two equilibria will always obtain:
1) One format returns the most faction on average for both Kurzicks and Luxons. The other two arenas are not played. (eg: AB for the first couple of years after the release of Factions, FA post-buff and before Kurzicks realized that bonding NPCs=win)
2) One format is most efficient for Kurzicks and another is most efficient for Luxons. Kurzicks thrash Luxons in one format and have long wait times. Ditto for Luxons. The third is not played. (eg: now)
No amount of developer intervention will produce a different outcome. The problem is the number of formats and the inherently goal-oriented nature of players. Any effort to balance the arenas such that players are indifferent to the faction gain rate (and therefore play all three) will inevitably be undone by future skill balance updates or player ingenuity.
Your best bet is to lobby for the removal of JQ and FA if you want to see Kurzicks play AB. (either entirely or via Smiter's Boon of the faction gain in JQ/FA)
One of the following two equilibria will always obtain:
1) One format returns the most faction on average for both Kurzicks and Luxons. The other two arenas are not played. (eg: AB for the first couple of years after the release of Factions, FA post-buff and before Kurzicks realized that bonding NPCs=win)
2) One format is most efficient for Kurzicks and another is most efficient for Luxons. Kurzicks thrash Luxons in one format and have long wait times. Ditto for Luxons. The third is not played. (eg: now)
No amount of developer intervention will produce a different outcome. The problem is the number of formats and the inherently goal-oriented nature of players. Any effort to balance the arenas such that players are indifferent to the faction gain rate (and therefore play all three) will inevitably be undone by future skill balance updates or player ingenuity.
Your best bet is to lobby for the removal of JQ and FA if you want to see Kurzicks play AB. (either entirely or via Smiter's Boon of the faction gain in JQ/FA)