Henchmen Skill Bar Contest/update 8/27/09
Kamatsu
The issue about why certain countries need to answer an additional question, as well as why certain countries are not included - which are due to law's in those countries - has been answered. Please do not ask about this any further, or discuss it any further - any post's regarding these matters will be deleted, and you will face possible post suspension. Thank you.
Konker2020
@ANET, although you have said that dual-prof is welcome, what about an instance of one prof using another's weapons? Such as a scythe-war (just an example).
FengShuiDove
Hm, pretty interesting. Haven't decided whether I should tackle a really unpopular profession to increase my chances of winning or if I should do just the opposite to counter all of the people doing the same... the eternal paradox.
I'll be entering some. Why not? Might stumble on something neat in the process.
I'll be entering some. Why not? Might stumble on something neat in the process.
Apok Omen
Okay, I was afraid Anet wouldn't take this seriously...
So, you (Anet) are finally letting the community submit their opinions and ideas for skill bars on henchmen? Good, better late than never, more power to ya, etc etc.
But the rules you have posted are basically welcoming more AI-abusable crap.
-Double prof henchman bars: Bad idea (with one exception). The whole point of henchmen was to have a skillset dependant on a single profession. That is what made Costume Brawl so epic and balanced (to an extent). Double prof henchman bars would welcome so much abused crap.
-Limit of 3 skillbars per account: So, another way to make people buy accounts or you really think that this would reduce skillbar swarming in like flies? Nevertheless, the limit should be 20 (one for each prof in gvg and ha) in case there is a smart player out there that has amazing ideas for bars.
-Random pairing: I'm not even going to go into detail why this is a bad idea. I'm just going to say that with the amount of herobars you are going to recieve (unless you are going to actually discard those builds), the chances of one of them becoming a henchy's bar is dangerously high.
If Anet is serious at all about this (which I am not convinced they are), they will have people checking out the bad bars (only takes 3-5 seconds to determine if a build is bad) and discarding them and keeping the good ones for discussion. If all else fails, or everyone submitting the builds are complete douchebags, I will actually settle with Anet making the bars.
So, you (Anet) are finally letting the community submit their opinions and ideas for skill bars on henchmen? Good, better late than never, more power to ya, etc etc.
But the rules you have posted are basically welcoming more AI-abusable crap.
-Double prof henchman bars: Bad idea (with one exception). The whole point of henchmen was to have a skillset dependant on a single profession. That is what made Costume Brawl so epic and balanced (to an extent). Double prof henchman bars would welcome so much abused crap.
-Limit of 3 skillbars per account: So, another way to make people buy accounts or you really think that this would reduce skillbar swarming in like flies? Nevertheless, the limit should be 20 (one for each prof in gvg and ha) in case there is a smart player out there that has amazing ideas for bars.
-Random pairing: I'm not even going to go into detail why this is a bad idea. I'm just going to say that with the amount of herobars you are going to recieve (unless you are going to actually discard those builds), the chances of one of them becoming a henchy's bar is dangerously high.
If Anet is serious at all about this (which I am not convinced they are), they will have people checking out the bad bars (only takes 3-5 seconds to determine if a build is bad) and discarding them and keeping the good ones for discussion. If all else fails, or everyone submitting the builds are complete douchebags, I will actually settle with Anet making the bars.
FoxBat
I really doubt secondary abuse (e.g. fastcast resto) is going to fly. With just one hench per class, they need to "represent" their class, as first time users need to get something they remotely expect from a henchmen of X class.
Even though certain packhunter builds seem borderline (bar is 90% pet 10% spear), even then I have a feeling you'd need to stick to a bow.
Somehow I have a funny feeling anet already made some hench skillbars, and they're just going to select the winner from whoever made a build closest to their own... much easier than trying to manually sort through all those builds...
Even though certain packhunter builds seem borderline (bar is 90% pet 10% spear), even then I have a feeling you'd need to stick to a bow.
Somehow I have a funny feeling anet already made some hench skillbars, and they're just going to select the winner from whoever made a build closest to their own... much easier than trying to manually sort through all those builds...
Scary
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Xenomortis
I really don't see what they hope to achieve. Henchmen are in no way a substitute for heroes and they just won't get used. Their skill bars, stats and equipment will be fixed and I doubt that they'll be changed in response to future skill updates. Their bars could quickly become quite useless.
A henchmen bar needs to be fairly mindless and you cannot micro their skills. You cannot use them in coordinated spikes, etc. This entire thing seems... well, just pointless. |
I really don't know the reason behind this. I havn't playd PvP for a long while
so. Maybe it is couse there arn't that many people in PvP anymore to, and
they know peeps hate Hench in HA, so they have to search for more people
even lower rank instead of using hero's
And so they give us a nice competition to say farewell to the hero's.
never the less. It's nice to have a ingame competition.
Kashrlyyk
The 24th of September is my birthday, would be awesome if they announce me wining one of the prizes on that day.
As if I have a chance of wining in that competition.
Do defensive build have a chance of wining even though Izzy wants GvG to be faster and not so defensive?
As if I have a chance of wining in that competition.
Do defensive build have a chance of wining even though Izzy wants GvG to be faster and not so defensive?
upier
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Martin Kerstein
We will be looking at PvE henchmen skill bars as well, but this is not part of this contest.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zahr Dalsk
One step closer to full hero parties (PvE).
Hopefully the next step will be new builds for PvE henchmen... and then going all the way and just raising the hero cap. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Narcissia
Im curious.
Seeing as meta for GvG and HA is usually constantly changing from update to update, will the henchmen bars change as well? Or will we have a bunch of useless heroes in a few months when the meta has changed, and then have to listen to people complain about useless henchmen and not being able to fill up groups, especially in small/starting guilds where they can be short on players? |
Vulturion
Great competition! 
I'd have preferred a PvE version more - as that's all I play - but I'll certainly give it my all, and at least my PvP-ignorance will make my entries unique (just maybe not in a good way
).
I'd have preferred a PvE version more - as that's all I play - but I'll certainly give it my all, and at least my PvP-ignorance will make my entries unique (just maybe not in a good way
).
Sauron The Greatest
I'm gonna submit a Backbreaker sin, i wanna see how good can an henchman wep-swap
??iljo
Well,they should have specified if they want dual prof hench or not...
4thVariety
I don't believe every build will be checked by hand. I assume some script will create a statistic which skills were part of the most bars. Then the bars having the most of these skills will be flagged. Bars spread across too many attributes will be removed and then you will have a lot of bars with the community's most favorite skills inside them automatically. Not necessarily the best possible, but skillbars that most people will like because they resemble the mass taste.
The whole process of creating the bars works like a giant DNA computing effort. All you need to do then, is to find the guy who contributed the combination selected in the end or came the closest to it and take that build. Not much work really, if you know how to make statistics work for you.
The whole process of creating the bars works like a giant DNA computing effort. All you need to do then, is to find the guy who contributed the combination selected in the end or came the closest to it and take that build. Not much work really, if you know how to make statistics work for you.
Master Ketsu
I submitted a few ranger builds...one standard, one semi-known, and one unique.
But honestly I hope I lose. The prizes for winning are retarded. I don't want a shitty hench named after me nor do I want some shitty tonic that changes me into said shitty hench.
But honestly I hope I lose. The prizes for winning are retarded. I don't want a shitty hench named after me nor do I want some shitty tonic that changes me into said shitty hench.
Dzjudz
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by 4thVariety
I don't believe every build will be checked by hand. I assume some script will create a statistic which skills were part of the most bars. Then the bars having the most of these skills will be flagged. Bars spread across too many attributes will be removed and then you will have a lot of bars with the community's most favorite skills inside them automatically. Not necessarily the best possible, but skillbars that most people will like because they resemble the mass taste.
The whole process of creating the bars works like a giant DNA computing effort. All you need to do then, is to find the guy who contributed the combination selected in the end or came the closest to it and take that build. Not much work really, if you know how to make statistics work for you. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by FoxBat
Somehow I have a funny feeling anet already made some hench skillbars, and they're just going to select the winner from whoever made a build closest to their own... much easier than trying to manually sort through all those builds...
|
Daesu
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Scary
never the less. It's nice to have a ingame competition.
|
Other than that, the AI is only good at using simple brainless skill bars that would be terrible in pvp. And you can't micro them like you can with heroes.
A dumbed down version of heroes is not a substitude for heroes when it comes to high end competitions like GvG and HA.
Looks like a total farce to me, to just "please" the community without thinking things through. If you win, your name would be used as a new insult for something useless and stupid and you even get the everlasting tonic to make you look exactly like that thing and get blamed for all the GvG/HA losses, noobs who bring them would suffer from, yay!
FoxBat
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Daesu
A dumbed down version of heroes is not a substitude for heroes when it comes to high end competitions like GvG and HA.
|
Martin Kerstein
Ok, let me clarify a couple of things here:
- We will manually pick the winning skill bars.
- We do want robust, general purpose builds, not some niche meta builds or builds that will not be immediately made obsolete by meta shifts.
- Common gimmick builds are not very likely to be picked
The point of this contest is not to find a 1:1 replacement for Heroes, but to offer henchmen with useful skillbars (read: useful but not making use of the AI advantages that certain Hero builds had) for players, who want to compete but are not able to field 8 human players.
They are not meant to replace human players.
- We will manually pick the winning skill bars.
- We do want robust, general purpose builds, not some niche meta builds or builds that will not be immediately made obsolete by meta shifts.
- Common gimmick builds are not very likely to be picked
The point of this contest is not to find a 1:1 replacement for Heroes, but to offer henchmen with useful skillbars (read: useful but not making use of the AI advantages that certain Hero builds had) for players, who want to compete but are not able to field 8 human players.
They are not meant to replace human players.
slowerpoke
Your being too generous Martin, there should be no henchmen or heroes in Player versus Player 
Draikin
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Martin Kerstein
Ok, let me clarify a couple of things here:
- We will manually pick the winning skill bars. - We do want robust, general purpose builds, not some niche meta builds or builds that will not be immediately made obsolete by meta shifts. - Common gimmick builds are not very likely to be picked The point of this contest is not to find a 1:1 replacement for Heroes, but to offer henchmen with useful skillbars (read: useful but not making use of the AI advantages that certain Hero builds had) for players, who want to compete but are not able to field 8 human players. They are not meant to replace human players. |
Coast
I guess it will be very hard to make the henchies work,
since people will give it a twist to benefit themselves.
So I would rather have the henchman with some crappy skillbars (or not 8skills)
to minimize potential exploits.
since people will give it a twist to benefit themselves.
So I would rather have the henchman with some crappy skillbars (or not 8skills)
to minimize potential exploits.
Delver
Micro heroes??? A lot of the heroes used in HA or GvG don't need a lot of microing. They sometimes micro 1 or 2 skills. Honestly you don't need to micro stuff like Ray of Judgement when you have knock down skills, hero or henchmen will just target it or you walk there and sit them down, it's too easy. Same with Tainted Flesh bar whatever form it is and the Tease mesmer. I've seen the bars people have claimed to already submitted, some are just throwing their hero bars in it. I doubt the ability of the developers to identify gimmick builds, so probably no change. No offense, but there's a definite lack of comprehension on what's going on in PvP shown by recent updates and the developer notes.
This contest is adding more options of AI in when trying to take away AI for players. Going from 4 choices in henchmen to 10? And possibly 20 different bars so 20 unique henchmen to be added into the game? Are we trying to get more players to join PvP or is this more of creating work to be have work type of thing?
Is how I see it when there're contests like this from any company. It's a front, players can be blamed for overpowered or absolute crap bars.
This contest is adding more options of AI in when trying to take away AI for players. Going from 4 choices in henchmen to 10? And possibly 20 different bars so 20 unique henchmen to be added into the game? Are we trying to get more players to join PvP or is this more of creating work to be have work type of thing?
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by FoxBat
Somehow I have a funny feeling anet already made some hench skillbars, and they're just going to select the winner from whoever made a build closest to their own... much easier than trying to manually sort through all those builds...
|
tyrant rex
As for the henchies what is the point , if we cant micro there skill usage and cant have them loaded with interrupts to abuse there useless. Also what happens if a skill gets nerfed that was on a henchies bar , do we get another contest or dose anet replace em. How exactly would anet judges know which bars are good, as far as anyone knows since izzy stopped playing no anet employee actually plays this game on a competitive level. This whole contest is a huge joke just remove heros and henchies from pvp if a team cant field 8 then go play ta or something. Would be alot better of putting time into actual skill balance then this joke.
Dzjudz
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Martin Kerstein
The point of this contest is not to find a 1:1 replacement for Heroes, but to offer henchmen with useful skillbars (read: useful but not making use of the AI advantages that certain Hero builds had)
|
Painbringer
7.You can submit up to three Skill bars for each format on your account, and they can be of any profession. But remember, you're choosing skill bars that need to be competitive in PvP play, so choose wisely.
3 skill bars for each format ? Does that mean only 3 characters you can choose or 3 different sets for all classes ?
3 skill bars for each format ? Does that mean only 3 characters you can choose or 3 different sets for all classes ?
JASON626
What happens after each skill update? New hench bar contest again?
MrGuildBoi
I don't see a point to this since they can change any skill and any time and make any build obsolete. I guess they want us to use underused skills that never get changed that don't compliment each other.
Longasc
This contest is VERY WELL DONE.
Much better than the clumsy webinterfaces/webapplications we had so far.
(btw: does the Xunlai House work again?)
Just equip the skills and submit them - easy, convenient and effective. This makes me hope for the future of GW1 and especially for more cool features like this in GW2.
I wonder how many people took their time to test and create HENCHMEN builds, and did not just send semi-automated hero or player builds.
Much better than the clumsy webinterfaces/webapplications we had so far.
(btw: does the Xunlai House work again?)
Just equip the skills and submit them - easy, convenient and effective. This makes me hope for the future of GW1 and especially for more cool features like this in GW2.
I wonder how many people took their time to test and create HENCHMEN builds, and did not just send semi-automated hero or player builds.
Age
The only problem is that pvp bars constantly change so this would have to be on going.
riktw
this looks like a cool contest, but abusing hero AI like Pdrain, is that ok?
as everyone with heroes(pvp and pve) does that.
and no nerfes.
hmmm, lemme think of a nice build.
btw martin
next gamescom, please throw a GW2 t-shirt to me, only have lame aion one
lol send me one if you have them left
as everyone with heroes(pvp and pve) does that.
and no nerfes.
hmmm, lemme think of a nice build
btw martin
next gamescom, please throw a GW2 t-shirt to me, only have lame aion one
lol send me one if you have them left
ElexAio
Yeah I'm really wondering if its okay to have pdrain on a bar- its currently on one that I wanna suggest (and the build doesn't really abuse anything else...). I don't think mass rupts is good, but I put it in the build due to usefullness as e-management along with rupt. Meh.
Chocobo1
Anet I know you mean well, but I think you missed a really important point.
Heroes were used because they could perform certain roles better than Humans can.
No one will take a Hero that do not fit into this, because there is no point to it. AI is slow to react to taking damage, doesn't kite well and doesn't use a wide majority of skills effectively.
Heroes were used because they could perform certain roles better than Humans can.
No one will take a Hero that do not fit into this, because there is no point to it. AI is slow to react to taking damage, doesn't kite well and doesn't use a wide majority of skills effectively.
Konker2020
Just a few things I want to point out (my opinion).
The henchmen that are implemented when they are implemented should all be human so as to have the same effect on them with certain skills. For example Edge of Extinction, Disease in general, etc. otherwise they could become unbalanced by a simple means of species. Also, I feel that each build should be single-profession so as to create a more balanced skillset.
The henchmen that are implemented when they are implemented should all be human so as to have the same effect on them with certain skills. For example Edge of Extinction, Disease in general, etc. otherwise they could become unbalanced by a simple means of species. Also, I feel that each build should be single-profession so as to create a more balanced skillset.
slowerpoke
Do the bars need 8 skills? Since most of the original henchmen don't have
tbh i think sometimes the ai works better with less to choose from, but hopefully we'll see some full bars/multi professions selected.
tbh i think sometimes the ai works better with less to choose from, but hopefully we'll see some full bars/multi professions selected.
Abedeus
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Painbringer
7.You can submit up to three Skill bars for each format on your account, and they can be of any profession. But remember, you're choosing skill bars that need to be competitive in PvP play, so choose wisely.
3 skill bars for each format ? Does that mean only 3 characters you can choose or 3 different sets for all classes ? |
Qing Guang
Eh, I doubt anyone will ever use these henchies. But I don't know anything about PvP beyond RA, TA, and AB, so...
I wish they'd do a contest like that for PvE henchies, though. Something to replace those awful monks... and get some rangers for the Kurz!
Sadly, my most interesting builds (Jenna's melee ones) would be nigh impossible for the AI to comprehend.
I wish they'd do a contest like that for PvE henchies, though. Something to replace those awful monks... and get some rangers for the Kurz!
Sadly, my most interesting builds (Jenna's melee ones) would be nigh impossible for the AI to comprehend.
bkdet
hey, if you feel that heroes are equally important in gvg/ha, do come down and support this movement.
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...41#post4828941
http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...41#post4828941
Delver
There're 4? threads about this... I'm just wondering if people even know an anet employee has commented on this thread only.
Xenomortis
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Painbringer
7.You can submit up to three Skill bars for each format on your account, and they can be of any profession. But remember, you're choosing skill bars that need to be competitive in PvP play, so choose wisely.
3 skill bars for each format ? Does that mean only 3 characters you can choose or 3 different sets for all classes ? |
You can then do the same for HA.
Raven Wing
The npc clearly says it is per account, which I can confirm.....too bad, I think I wasted 2 chances by submitting 2 bars without a rez
A11Eur0
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Painbringer
7.You can submit up to three Skill bars for each format on your account, and they can be of any profession. But remember, you're choosing skill bars that need to be competitive in PvP play, so choose wisely.
3 skill bars for each format ? Does that mean only 3 characters you can choose or 3 different sets for all classes ? |