Ursan wasn't Op? Sins are faster?

ursan was more brainless than SF is (lol if thats possible) if your honestly gunna tell me that ursan was not OPed u are either in complete denial or you are a fanboy. AoE KD 24/7 massive AoE dmg, huge health and armor buffs, all unstripable and perm maintainable, yay deff not oped.


post below sums it up...... Finaly some smart words from admins. I totally agree with you.

whats stopping you from using these "real" builds while people are using sf, is there a new gw's law ive not heard of

you think simply because most people doing uw are farming is using sf thats stopping you getting a team together to use "real" builds, dont be so simple minded because with how mindless groups have gotten it bored me so i moved on to pvp when i play which is much less mindnumbing than waltzing around rounding up foes and watching them drop to the ground while you don't take a single hit.
and no there isn't a law, but do you realize how hard it is to find a normal group nowadays when all people want to do is clear in <20mins. no thanks

If they brought back Ursan, I won't use the skill even if it's on my bar. no 1 said you had to, so in future, post something thats not pointless.

Leave Ursan as it is and nerf Shadow Form to dust. This.

I find it funny that people state ursan wasn't OP because they compare it to another OP speedclear which is better.

SF is way overpowered. Ursan WAS way overpowered (and to some extent STILL IS after the nerf, especially when combined with various consumables). So to revert Ursan would be a terrible way to fix the problem of SF speed clears.

A big part of the problem is that a lot of people find elite areas too hard to play (while others have no problems with guild/alliance groups full of knowledgable and skillful people). This makes it so that average players coming from small/inactive guilds/alliances find it quite hard to ever complete those elite areas. Sure, there are heroes, but we all know that often the don't measure up. In my opinion, this is the real issue which needs to be addressed.

I'm in favor of utterly destroying SF, further weakening skills like Ursan which are still over powered. Using these skills in elite areas become almost necessary to both get in a group and complete the area in a timely fashion. OPed skills in elite areas is not generally the problem (although SF has certainly become so). The problems, even according to Lindsay, come when people start using those OPed skills to do everything... such as when people where Vanquishing using Ursan groups, or running everywhere in the game in perma SF. So what I woudl suggest as a solution is to do something similar in the elite areas as what was done at the end of factions... special overpowered skills that can only be used in the Elite areas. This, or redesign the areas totally making them more achievable for average players.

For example, from a Lore basis, these skills could easily make sense. In DoA, Kormir could teach you a special skill which can only be used in DoA, perhaps for a moderate fee, or after completing a certain quest. Similar ideas could easily work in other elite areas as well. Just my 2 cents. dude i give you credit, you broke down what the WHOLE ArenaNet staff needs to learn but i do have to snort at 1 idea....crapping out "ELITE" areas for AVERAGE players....dude the whole idea of an ELITE area is for the more experienced battle hardened players, and i do have to say a 1 nuker Ele, 1 UG Ele, 1 Dominated Mesmer, 1 SS necro, 1 support paragon, 2 monks and a Defy tank=8 total can clear UW just as quick, but then if PUG's(Pick Up Group's) do the common "stay glued to the wars ass" tactic, it makes tanking impossible wich also means a failed group.

so yes i agree skills like Ursan, Shadow Form etc need to be re-stricted to a time frame with an additional 15 seconds of recharge on top after the skills duration has ran out.(i.e shadow form ends, add 15 seconds after before its ready to use again.

my biggest greivance with shadow form is, sins are suppose to come in, Spike and do ish loads of damage(even kill), then get out before the group know's what hit it...cus thats how they have to be played in AB and PvP.(real PvP'ers dont count AB as PvP or some BS)

IMO, ursan was crap for 1 reason, only a war and derv(lesser extent paragons) should tank, not casters/rangers/sins

ursan was good for 1 reason, it gave casters/rangers/sins(before SF) a chance to do HM with there heroes/henchies without having to control from the backline(MIND YOU BACKILINE Hard Mode IS JUST AS EASY AS FRONTLINE)

also, Ursan wasnt as easy as ya'll make it out to be(Ok its easy for us), but did any1 here ever get those brain dead morons who couldnt use ursan if there life depended on it, or the HB monks who couldnt chain Seed of Life and Healing Seed properly or use Heal Party....or the ursans who dont make a wall when yelled at 50 times to make a wall.

and all's i got to say, is im not that technical with builds, and i could use SF, so any brain dead pothead could use it(i smoke pot, plus i have mental disorders)....even players i know that were useless(even at G-Defense/Riposite farming) could do the VSF as an SF.

thats why i like 600 monks, cus there not as easy as SF lemmings...

my 2 cents

because with how mindless groups have gotten it bored me so i moved on to pvp when i play which is much less mindnumbing than waltzing around rounding up foes and watching them drop to the ground while you don't take a single hit.
and no there isn't a law, but do you realize how hard it is to find a normal group nowadays when all people want to do is clear in <20mins. no thanks
you dont realise what im saying, your saying nerf sf so people an use real builds, as i said whats stoping u from using those real builds, if some one wants to far a quicker way, who really cares, allthis bitching about a single skill is pointless, and as i said,there nothing stopping u from getting together with friends/guildies and using these "real" builds ur talking about

this is just yet another pointless nerf sf thread even if it started about ursans, people really need to stfu and wait for them to nerf sf insted of bitching bout it

oh yeah.. ursans not op LOL, every class could run ursans, only sins can run perma sf...

you dont realise what im saying, your saying nerf sf so people an use real builds, as i said whats stoping u from using those real builds, if some one wants to far a quicker way, who really cares, allthis bitching about a single skill is pointless, and as i said,there nothing stopping u from getting together with friends/guildies and using these "real" builds ur talking about

this is just yet another pointless nerf sf thread even if it started about ursans, people really need to stfu and wait for them to nerf sf insted of bitching bout it thats acctually a really good point, but i wanna add something...

this type of bitching is what causes skills to get nerfed to begin with, so you all bitch again later.

Heroes didnt kill PUG's, PUG's killed PUG's...

First off, Ursans were overpowered. I got into EotN late so I missed the chance to participate but I saw enough first hand to agree that it made elite areas too easy.
I agree with everyone else here about SF though. It's getting to the point where everyone is going to start creating SF sins in order to farm ectos and Obbyshards. Under no circumstances no one should be able to solo farm an Elite area. No way no how. That is the reason that Anet nerfed trapping.
I understand that it's kinda "our bad" apology for the way sins were not wanted in pve for so long.
However making them invincible is not the way to deal with it. Start overpowering their skills in PvE, make their DPS in PvE godlike. However, the simple fact is that I can't remember the last time someone was at ToA lfg for UW and could actually find one if they were not a perma.
The idea that I could create a sin and have 50 ectos in a week is disgusting. i was just gonna suggest manlyway, but thats fow...

i wouldnt say sins are god like either, some areas in uw do take a tiny bit of skill... not alot but a very tiny amount lol

So you guys want SF to nerfed and then what? Exactly all people who dont have enough time to organize a whole good team with people because there guild aint active enough and want to do UW, they most likely will fail, or never will do it again. SF gives people the oppertunity to still play together, maybe not as teamplay, but still a quick full 8man team. Where some coordination is still needed. I agree SF is (2) good, but cmon Aion came out, just leave us alone Anet....dont nerf all fun out of the game.
(PS: SF=keeps economy going tbh) Obsidian Flesh.

So you guys want SF to nerfed and then what? Exactly all people who dont have enough time to organize a whole good team with people because there guild aint active enough and want to do UW,
(PS: SF=keeps economy going tbh) UW takes about an hour balanced. Its not that hard, you just have to know what you are doing. SF isn't a time saver. There isn't a single UWSC build that doesn't require PVE skills, and really if you only have r3 or less in each EOTN title rank that slows down your runs alot. So for those truely sub 20 minute runs you need to grind out at least r8 in each EOTN track, of course thats even easier with the speedclear books now too.

The problem with the game is that SF and ursan made the game way to easy, the elite players took advantage of those OP PVE gimmicks and then got tired of running the same elite area's over and over so they quit.