Thread of Introductions and Random Discussion

I closed the first, merged Free Runner's and Neo's together (since the first dealt with an overview of them and the second dealt with their locations and the posts didn't intercept), so now Free Runner's thread is the main one. You can find a link in the Archives.

Greetings, I'm Thalador Doomspeaker. I usually raise more questions with my posts. Also, I like to argue with everyone about their theories. My other name would be The Great Speculator, because I love to fantasize and relate the theme of the topics to other theories through speculations.

ok, so i was reading up on the a bit of the history of tyria and what happened between GW and GW2. i dont know if this has been said before, but it seemed to me like abbaddon was the driving force for most of the things that occurred and destroyed the powerful human empires. i read that the charr pushed down into ascalonian territory and conquered all the lands, but when they moved on to orr, their armies were destroyed by the cataclysm. i was surprised to learn that vizier khilbron was that one who used the magic that created the cataclysm. i also read that the cataclysm was driven into action by abbaddon. and im guessing when the charr were destroyed the humans rebuilt ascalon. after digging deeper, i found that the charr were given the power to conquer ascalon by the titans, and if titans are the servants of abbaddon, would that not mean that the charr were ultimately lead by abbaddon. i do not know much about the dragons, but if anyone knows about them, who created them, or were they always sort of there. Elona later fell to palawa joko, who was brought back when abbaddon was defeated. was palawa joko a servant of abbaddon? and what initially drove the guilds to war with each other? this has most likely all been said before but this is the first time ive taken an interest in tyria's history, but did abbaddon bring the destruction of the human empires with the help of the dragons?

Yes, Abaddon is responsible for a lot of things. It's true, that he was involved in the searing of Ascalon, the cataclysm of Orr and the corruption of Shiro and the Vizier. (The latter was responsible for the Cataclysm, although he was deceived/corrupted by one of Abaddon's "demonic agent".) But, I'd like to tell you, that he was not the creator of the Ancient Dragons, and Palawa Joko is not a follower/servant of Abaddon.

These quotations can help:

The first reference of the gods of Tyria is in 3000 BE, when they created(?) Glint, the first and oldest creature (aside from the Anceint Dragons) on Tyria. The Giganticus Lupicus became extinct around 10000 BE. So there's no known connection between Abaddon and the Dragons.

Palawa Joko was entombed by the Order of Whispers and Turai Ossa. He was/is a quite power hungry undead, so that's the reason for invading and conquering Elona two times. (Well, the first was not successful, but as you know the second was.) And it was us (the players), who released that abomination on the world, because we needed his help to defeat the Dark God of Secrets.

I don't think that behind the Guild Wars there was Abaddon's hand. It was the human race/guilds. Their greed and lost for power was the reason for the fightings.

Abaddon was the one responsible for the whole Charr -> Destroy Ascalon + Orr scenario that led to Orrs destruction - the Charr were serving him without actually knowing it. He was also responsible for Shiros paranoia that caused him to attack the Emperor - the Fortune Teller was his. And of course he was responsible for the attack on the Tomb of the Primeval Kings and Shing Jea Island.

So yes he was involved in a couple of past events - the guild wars however seem to have been purely human driven. Guilds gained power too fast and like Thalador said, human greed pushed things further. Jokos origins are never really stated however Abbadon probably had little to do with him considering how very little Joko seems to care about Abaddons return. Its also doubtful he had anything to do with the ancient dragons considering there was a god before him. He may of found out about them but that would be about it.

So unless Anet are hiding other plot elements for GW2, Abbadon should have very little effect on the future of Tyria after his destruction.

For GW2 it's going to be some dragons stirring everything up,so abbadon's role has ended.

Many things that influence the GW1 storyline was caused by Abaddon, with the help of Dhuum and Menzies. He was the problem of some past issues, but no future issues, and certainly not all issues.

The Guild Wars was caused by human greed which was powered by the Bloodstones' magic seeping into the area in which they were in.

Palawa Joko doesn't work for anyone, he is out for his own ambition and his own gain.

I am going to merge this thread with the random discussion one, as this is hardly worth its own. Please use the random discussion thread in the future.

Surprisingly enough, it wasn't us for once, rather, it was:

All we did was restore his power, not release him from his imprisonment.

Actually, it wasn't even that. It was merely the dispersion of the Bloodstones when the volcano erupted, which, realizing their power, led them to fighting due to, as each of you has said, greed. Eliminate the enemies, and take all the power for yourself when you find it.

Sorry if this has alrdy been adressed...
was just wondering has any1 else seen the backbones in the raptor cave or its seems 2 have a similar look of spinal bones... Would have posted some pics but at work atm... I have a opinion that this might be apart of a big beast like creature

I dont believe the bare bones in the raptor cave have any signifigance beside asthetics. Raptors are carniverous, so a large creature might have stumbled apon the cave and all the nestlings along with Broodmother most likely would have ate it.

So no, the bones serve no purpose other than to solidify that raptors eat...things.

I would like to get a general consensus from the lore forum about Stormcaller and the Horn of King Doric.

I always thought they were two separate things and that Stormcaller was just a mouth piece to the Horn of King Doric, but I'm also hearing that they are the same thing: that the whole horn is Stormcaller and the little white horn is just the mouthpiece to it.

http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Stormcaller

http://guildwars.wikia.com/wiki/Horn_of_King_Doric

I assumed that the Horn of King Doric did different things based off which mouth piece was used and Stormcaller is the mouth piece that brings rain.

To be honest, I have NEVER heard of the large horn being called the Horn of King Doric. The official wiki doesn't even have an article for a "Horn of King Doric". Rather, it says that the large horn is Stormcaller, and the small horn is just a mouthpiece, which is what I've always interpreted the cutscenes as trying to say.

Erol calls the small horn the "mouthpiece"

If they are normal sized, it's just as vamp08 said. If they are large, I mean very large, then they are Giganticus Lupicus bones.

Beyond that, no real meaning I'm sure.

As silavor and Chrisworld said, the "Horn of King Doric" isn't an official thing. I've never even heard of that term before.

That wiki you linked to is nearly complete BS with lore. The two horns is "Stormcaller" - the small part being the mouthpiece.

Actually there are 5 humanoid faces on the gwen map, that lake and the shoreline facing the west on the middle lake, the west peninsula on the northern island, the south western peninsula on Orr and the inlet to the crystal desert(most noticeable when its unexplored). Cantha has a baboon face on the southern most island and the river flowing north from the Jade sea casts a face on the island and the opposite shore. Elonia has only the peninsula to the west of the Sunspear crypt. Most likely these are just our minds seeing shapes and patterns that where not intentional.

She was hunting the Black Moa, and it inflicted righteous fury against her.

Checked the wiki, here's one of her idle sayings:

Also just go to her page on wiki , it tells you what happened to her.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Zho

Well, when "Fah"'s pronounced in Cantonese it means flower. Can't think of anything for "Am" right now though.

As said, she lost her eye when hunting the Black Moa in the Echovald. It was hinted at in Nightfall, and said in Zho's Journal in Eye of the North.

And their Assassins lack Death Blossom or any of the Lotus skills...

Does anyone know how old stormcaller is?

I'm writing a guildwars inspired story and would like to stay as cannon as possible.

It was used against the Charr before pre-searing. It was sealed after the searing at Drascir the old capital found at Ruins of Surmia mission. It can only be used at Horn Hill to defend Rin, the former capital of Ascalon.

As far as I know, there is no known age for any of the powerful weapons in GW (which would be things like Stormcaller, Scepter of Orr, Staff of the Mists, Sohothin, Magdaer, Cauldron of Cataclysm, etc.).

Also Derrick, use the random discussion thread for small questions like this.

I noticed something interesting while collecting some Frost Dryder Fangs today (three more to go - will probably pick them up in the same run as I visit the Traveller) - namely, a couple of groups of Shiverpeak Centaurs fighting each other in Anvil Rock. Maybe the social order of the Shiverpeak Centaurs isn't as homogenous as we'd been thinking...

Ive wondered(haven't really looked for anything on this, so forgive me if its been mentioned before), are we certain the Seer and Mursaat aren't the same race, just with different philosophies? I've always thought that there was a schism with someone of high rank, who began to serve Abaddon, and recruited others to their cause, leading the Mursaat into a civil war, similar to what happened in Elona with Varesh. I'm aslo fairly sure the Enchanted in the Crystal Desert are undead Mursaat/Seers, animated by ancient magic of the Forgotten, when they fought with one or both groups, or maybe they simply scoured the battlefields after they had been vacated. Just my two cents(probably all its worth lol).

They are not of the same race. Their autonomy is far too different. And the Enchanted have been said by Anet to have nothing to do with the Mursaat. Both are old old old theories from GWO. Beyond the Mursaat/Abaddon connection, not sure for here.

Also, this is off-topic, so moving to the random discussion thread.

This could be a bug or a scripted event. Occassionally, some groups which are supposed to be "of the same species" may attack eachother at random. If it's a recurring event or obviously scripted (they only start fighting when you come close enough), it's intended and may have a deeper meaning.
An example would be the Jotun fighting in Norrhart Domains, which is quite obviously a duel between 2 Jotun.

If it is not official why flame scepter mage in nolani acadamy outpost says that stormcaller is a mouthpiece of the Horn of King Doric?

"What news?

"The artifact horn Stormcaller has been found! Were we inside the walls of Rin, there would be great rejoicing."

Stormcaller?

"The mouthpiece of the legendary horn of King Doric. Surely you've seen the pipes of the horn itself up on Horn Hill, outside of Rin!"

Humor me.

"The horn is a powerful weapon. They say that the sounds of the billowing pipes will render helpless the enemies of Ascalon. The mouthpiece was lost during the last Guild War, but now that it has been found it could help us defend the Capital against the Charr. The horn was placed outside of Rin long before the Great Northern Wall was even built. It was the last line of defense against invaders. I'm afraid it has come to that again. If only we'd found Stormcaller before the Searing." "

As you pointed out, the word horn in "horn of King Doric" is not capitalized, meaning it isn't a proper name. The Stormcaller is the horn of King Doric, but the name isn't the Horn of King Doric.

The only proper nouns regarding the horn is "Stormcaller" and "Horn Hill". Horn Hill is the hill on which Stormcaller resides, and the mouthpiece of Stormcaller is different from the rest. The "horn of King Doric" phrase is a description of Stormcaller.

I could not find a thread about Arachni anymore. Anyways what I wanted to add is that possible reason of not including Arachni related content in game might be due to a fact that Arachni as such existed in Mythology and still appears in some Wiccan related cults. Introduction of it into a game might have lead to a protest of several interested parties.

Funny you bring up Arachnia (not Arachni, whom is a spider queen, unlike Arachnia, who is a dead spider god), because, literally, I just revised my research on it and was about to post a new thread on it. BTW, all major threads (including the Arachnia one) can be found in the Druid's Overlook Archives.

Anyways, as for the mythology reference, one particular one I know of was pointed out to me in the Arachnia thread which links to here. Greek Mythology explaining the birth of spiders and why they spin web.

Interesting comment on something big being planned for the 5th Birthday. I wonder if, since he doesn't have a close tie to any of the holidays, they're planning to introduce Menzies then?

I'd hope that they introduce Menzies... Am I the only one who remembers seeing concept art of him being a non human? maybe I'm thinking of dhuum.

Small comment/question and with Menzies name getting dropped, this is my pondering on Dhuum,

I went to the official wiki to read about Dhuum (have yet to meet the dude, as my alliance seems to fail at the last mission in underworld every time, but that is a tangent.)

IF Dhuum is intolerant of resurrection and undead, and he were to regain the underworld, would that not stop pretty much everything in their tracks with respect to Orr?

Maybe I'm being to simplistic here, but where as resurrection is good for living players, I'm none to happy about a world of walking undead being controlled by a power hungry dragon.

Are we being "used" again to keep a weaker god in control that may not have the power to hold back what is to come in GW2?

I'm not so certain that "cruel and unjust" is a fair description here of Dhuum. Micro manager maybe, but what is the greater evil? We get one chance at life, (as in the case of real life) or do we put up with the consequences of having the undead make life miserable for the living?

I'm getting far to interested in all of this. GW2 with the ability to create our own personal story has me greatly curious about what is to come.

My name is Raina Alcarin.

I have been posting a bit in this area as I've grown weary of the main areas of this board and find this one to be of interest if nothing else in sparking the imagination.

I am not educated in lore, though I know the jist. I have been through the three campaigns so much I think I have become jaded to many things, so reading this area has been excellent for reviving old memories and making new connections.

Thank you for your time reading, and I hope that my posts add value if not amusement. ;-)

It depends on how Dhuum reacts, but the undead of Orr after Prophecies seems to no longer be a threat. We've seen War in Kryta instances of Kryta where the Cursed Lands and Nebo Terrace have no more undead, in EN the undead are in smaller numbers underground (Beneath Lion's Arch mission/quest) and may be pretty much spread out (depends on if you consider the undead in Bloodstone Caves, Heart of the Shiverpeaks, and in that circle in Varajar Fells to be Orrian - I personally think they are, but there are some who disagree).

Dhuum seems to be more of a hypocrite than "no! No undead or resurrection at all!" As his "elite" forces are the Skeletons of Dhuum - which are (seemingly?) undead. Though they may simply be animated skeletons and thus more like golems, constructs, or elementals (there are bone and flesh parts of the Underworld, after all (Bone Pits)).

This would however solve the issue of Joko, Zoldark, Murakai(not completely though), and Fendi Nin.

Regarding the dragon Zhaitan, this is a different situation. Firstly, he like the other dragons are on par to the gods, thus may be an exception to the rule. Along with that, I, at least, am questioning whether Zhaitan's minions are truly undead. That is, the narrator (which speaks from an in-universe point of view, thus isn't going to be 100% precises) in the first trailer says "the soulless army" - as I point out in my research on spirits, undead, and constructs, undead need souls to be really undead. These "undead" created by Zhaitan, I believe, are just animated corpses - just like how the destroyers are animated rock and lava, and Jormag's minions are animated snow and ice. Each dragon seems to be able to make minions out of both existing life (Svanir/the Nornbear is a perfect example, and there are many other cases where Jormag twists living beings - Kralkatorrik is also stated to twist living beings), and the environment. They could use both of these things to make minions. And of course, existing life would include corpses - dead life. And simply using "dead life" would allow the creation of "undead" in looks, but not in actuality as it isn't a reverting back to life process, but a creating new life out of death.

And you're not the only one who thinks that Dhuum isn't "cruel and unjust" because of the resurrection and undead scenario. However, I don't think that is the only thing. In fact, the case of cruel might be that he didn't allow second chances (undead/resurrection), and the unjust could be what he did with the souls after their life.

Many would probably say "one chance at life" - especially since it seems that resurrection has certain "requirements" as the common villager cannot be resurrected. Though that in itself may be a game mechanic and not a lore issue, just as the Aura of the Bloodstone skill slows resurrection instead of preventing it.

Does anyone know what the tattoos which the norn have were based on? I really like their designs and would like to know where the artists got their inspiration from. I cant seem to find them look similar to norse symbols, anyone can help me out?

From the images I'm looking at - one being the concept art of Jora and the bear - They seem to be a take of the Celtic knot patterns. The Norn themselves are probably inspired by Scandanavian, Norse stories, and Viking/Saxon/Celtic culture. So look up these areas and their art/antiques/history such as weapons, clothes, jewellery, body art etc. Just by typing in Celtic knots in google gives you plenty of images

As Skiasca said, they're based off of the celtic knot patterns.